Have you met or know a psychopath/sociopath?

[Nat]

Originally Posted by JustJo

Considering HIPAA, I find it almost more shocking that anyone working in the medical profession would disclose this about a former patient than anything the patient has done...

I know what you mean - I've worked in the medical arena (the business part, not the curing part) and your ass is grass if you confirm somebody was a patient. Not only does it endanger the facility you work for, you can also be held personally liable and subjected to a federally mandated fine. That stuff is supposed to be kept extremely private.

It's funny though, when I watch crime type shows, they always act like hipaa is some silly easily-gotten-around little formality.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Nat

I know what you mean - I've worked in the medical arena (the business part, not the curing part) and your ass is grass if you confirm somebody was a patient. Not only does it endanger the facility you work for, you can also be held personally liable and subjected to a federally mandated fine. That stuff is supposed to be kept extremely private.

It's funny though, when I watch crime type shows, they always act like hipaa is some silly easily-gotten-around little formality.

I agree. I work in the field (also on the biz side) and we get hammered about the "thou shalt nots." Disclosing personal info is like begging for a big fat fine, the loss of a job, and the inability to get another one in the field anytime soon.

[Just_G]

Wow. I just had an "a-ha" moment! Thank you for this information....subscribing!!

[Gemme]

I had Ebon read a portion of the psychopath link and we agreed that someone close to him is, indeed, one. One of my mother's husbands was too.

[dixie]

I actually thought the same considering HIPAA, but apparently since the place is gone all the files are now just sitting in a storage office with a little secretary who apparently isn't very up to date on things. All that was asked was for an employment record.

[scootebaby]

speaking of HIPAA..im not sure how serious it is taken here...i work for a pizza company...in less that a yr i received COMPLETE records on 2 different people from a mental health place in the town over from me,by fax...when i called to ask/inform them they were nonchalant,apologized and asked me to just shred them..didnt matter that i didnt have a shreddder


sorry for derail!

[socialjustice_fsu]

many sociopaths/psychopaths throughout my career as a clinical social worker. I did some advanced studies at our large state hospital (this can be confirmed on the forensic/criminally insane unit.) I had to go through a multitude of focused training in personality disorders before I could put a foot into 'the' unit. Without becoming repetitive about what has been pointed out as traits of such folks...this is what I walked away knowing from there after spending nearly 18 months with them: They (the pt.s) are some of the most charming and engaging people you would ever hope to meet. Many times I questioned the treatment team as to the rationale for their hold at a state hospital. These were some of the type of people you might even want to take home to the family to meet them. Their charming and engaging ways are a perfected facade. They have an uncanny way of detecting one's weak area and will succinctly attack it in the most subtle ways. I was fortunate because I worked with a solid, trustworthy team of psychiatrists and psychologists. It was the team that helped me stay sane in the midst of this comfortable quagmire. These pt.'s were not only convincing but had honed the trait of manipulation. Often times, in session, with a pt. (rapist) he had every possible reason to not 'be guilty,' when I printed his charges - he was awaiting competency to stand trial - he could dispute every charge, provide detailed images of where he was at the time of the rape (it had been captured on a surv. camera of a parking lot) and still look at each of his team members and deny it was him. Interesting, though, more often than not as you push a sociopath one can sometimes watch the unraveling of their thinking. I can recall way too many times I watched as an emptiness/lack of emotion come over them through their eye contact and non-verbal cues.
I spent many hours reviewing pt. after pt. cases trying to come to terms with their history and the factors that led them to this place in their lives. Many shared the same traits from an early childhood to the present.
Another odd perception/observation was that I almost always felt 'safe' on this unit. I learned that a clinician (one who had the credentials to be an expert witness in court) was seen as the 'savior' to the patients. They viewed us as their ticket 'out.' They spent an enormous amount of time trying to convince us of their sanity. If we testified to such it could mean a reduced jail time or less time on that particular unit. Of course, there are many factors that feed into such a trial. The pt.'s played the game expertly. It became the challenge to the clinician to remain grounded when attempting to provide services for this population.
I can only remember thinking on my last day on the forensic unit...at least these people are getting some form of treatment...what about the ones that walk side by side of us all throughout our lives and never, ever get the treatment that might evoke change if they wanted to make their lives healthier? Of course, the answer lies within the scope of does the individual recognize their maladaptive lifestyle and, if so, are they motivated for change? Unfortunately, many sociopaths and psychopaths have had these 'successful' skills for years and it has gotten them many things they never would have been able to have if they had used accepted societal means to get them. So these skills have been reinforced albeit negatively...and on and on it goes.

I have spoken some about the forensic results of these disorders. I wanted to add that following some training at the Jimmy Ryce Center in South Florida (this is the location for sexual predators/murderers/rapists of children under the age of 18 reside) the residents of this center are so advanced in their level of personality disorder there is very little chance of any recovery/rehab. These are people that cannot even be in the general population of a forensic/secured state hospital unit due to their likelihood of being threatened or physically hurt. To me, these are the people that are often beyond any scope of rehab. They epitomize the profound psychopath at every level.

[Oiler41]

I've encountered these type of folks a few times in my life; I've also seen close friends who have been subjected to these types of folks. I've been fleeced a few times because of this type of person, and seen friends fleeced. Fleeced, meaning emotionally or financially or mentally or any number of ways possible, although thankfully, I've not personally known anyone who lost their life to someone like this.

I've always struggled with the concept of how people like this sleep at night, and then I read the description of this type of person, like that posted by Nat, and it makes me realize all over again that they sleep just fine as they truly have no conscience and therefore are undeterred by working people over in whatever fashion it is that seems to trip their trigger at the time. They have no remorse because they have no understanding or reference point as to what is right and what is wrong.

It is one of those head tilt things for me. The whole notion of "no conscience" is just so far out of my realm of understanding that it is hard for me to get my brain around it. This is an interesting topic just by virtue of the whole head tilt thing. It is good to read these descriptions to help with understanding that some people aren't just doing things to others intentionally; sometimes, they truly are sociopaths and they truly just aren't like the vast majority of folks in the world. Interesting topic. Thanks for starting the thread and creating thinking points.

Glynn

[undone]

M is the sociopath
C was my wife


Unfortunately I have.
M was a friend of my new girlfriend C at the time M would call all hours of the night and I let it go of course trying to be a respectful guest in C's house.
But over many years in the relationship the things I saw M do things to significant others, family members, and friends were horrific to me, from faking leukemia and tearing her(M's) clothes she was wearing while slamming herself against counters and doors so she(M) could accuse her partner of abuse, to regularly taking pictures of knives bullets or guns in her possession and sending them along with suicide messages or other pictures of her scratched wrists and sending them to my love (at the time we were living in Illinois and the (M) was in Colorado) so all C could do was worry, stress, and shut out every one else around her because she could not help her friend, could not save the M from herself.
The thing about these folks is that they really do narrow in on the weakness and vulnerability of the ones they are working over. C had a very close family member take his life when C was thirteen and had been there when he was found. C always felt like she was responsible because she was so close to him that she should have know. It haunted C through her entire, to such a degree that the only reason she stopped trying to take her own life was when she had her son. So of course the messages and pictures haunted and tormented C to no end, so much so she would tear herself, her life, and her own loving family, apart to try to save the friend.
It got to the point that M had caused so much rift between her father and his wife of over fifteen years because he of course wanted to save his little girl every time something came up, that they were nearly divorced last time I heard anything about it.
M"s partner moved several states away to get distance after being accused of awful things. However M had friends in the same town and the girlfriend was threatened and tormented by several in the community. I reached the end of my patience between C's persistence in placing M as the most important thing in her life, far above myself and the son we were raising, to the payday loans C took behind my back to take care of this or that for M while C and I never knew how or if we were going to make rent that month.
I finally had it after she started lying about me to my partner and the blame and doubt C had of course was on me, and when C asked me to move across the country to live closer to M who caused destruction to any part of my life she could reach and torment to my family C and our son what could I do?
Her disease is like acid to anything she touches, but has everyone convinced she is the Midas touch instead.
I do consider myself lucky that I never felt like I could trust her, never felt like she was sincere or actually cared for my step son or C. That I could never believe a word she said.
I did feel like a monster when my gut and every bone in my body screamed at me that M was lying about having leukemia, I saw the last shreds of my faith and trust in C slip away while watching C go back and forth between us and her friend. M finally came up with some story about how it was not leukemia after nearly a year. No one was ever allowed to go with her, till her father took her to a cancer treatment center and paid for the treatment out of his pocket. She never had side effects from treatments, she would tell different friends different stories and different times or days for Dr. appointments and get medical facts very wrong when talking about it.

C and I let our selves lose so much over the way things worked out,

[Martina]

Originally Posted by scootebaby

speaking of HIPAA..im not sure how serious it is taken here...i work for a pizza company...in less that a yr i received COMPLETE records on 2 different people from a mental health place in the town over from me,by fax...when i called to ask/inform them they were nonchalant,apologized and asked me to just shred them..didnt matter that i didnt have a shreddder


sorry for derail!

i found a bunch of medical paperwork including people's diagnosis codes and their social security numbers blowing along S. University in Ann Arbor some years ago. i picked it all up and took it to my office. i called the most likely source, and they had put a box of the stuff out on the street on a windy day. They seemed unconcerned, said the papers were duplicates that had been used for research.

re sociopaths, only one person, a relative though not a close one. He lived off women and was an alcoholic. He had no feelings of remorse about the people he hurt, including his sons.

It's scary the amount of narcissism that is out there. They aren't sociopaths, but they do a lot of harm. These people look and sound normal, but other people aren't that real to them. They are just tools to get the narcissist's needs met. If others aren't useful for that, then they can be treated in any way and it doesn't matter. i find these people pretty damned scary too. And their emotions, while intense, have a limited range. Anger and self-pity mixed with entitlement and scorn for others. i have so so learned to look for this profile. Oh yeah, and these folks, imo, have a distorted self-image. Their view of themselves is way different from how others see them.

On a more positive note, i teach in a high school, and my students seem to be very empathetic. They live hard lives, but they aren't hardened. It's good to see.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by scootebaby

speaking of HIPAA..im not sure how serious it is taken here...i work for a pizza company...in less that a yr i received COMPLETE records on 2 different people from a mental health place in the town over from me,by fax...when i called to ask/inform them they were nonchalant,apologized and asked me to just shred them..didnt matter that i didnt have a shreddder


sorry for derail!

This is very disturbing to hear about. Confidentiality of mental health records is very serious- and ought to be. Actually, any and all medical records. The person that faxed this really should have been prosecuted- and if a licensed clinician- had their license yanked.

What is so amazing is that those that "ought" to know better do this kind of stuff all the time! Someone with a valid clinical license can get into just about everything. And with the internet and hospital records, etc. being digitalized, it has become very easy to get medical, including mental health information about people.

[Lizzy]

Originally Posted by Nat

and from http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Profile of the Sociopath:

- Glibness and Superficial Charm

-Manipulative and Conning

They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

-Grandiose Sense of Self

Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

-Pathological Lying

Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

-Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

-Shallow Emotions

When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

-Incapacity for Love

-Need for Stimulation

Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

-Callousness/Lack of Empathy

Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

-Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature

Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

-Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency

Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

-Irresponsibility/Unreliability

Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

-Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity

Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

-Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle

Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

-Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility

Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other Related Qualities:

Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
Authoritarian
Secretive
Paranoid
Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
Conventional appearance
Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
Incapable of real human attachment to another
Unable to feel remorse or guilt
Extreme narcissism and grandiose
May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)

WOW!!!SO MANY OF THESE THINGS RELATE TO THE PERSON I HAVE BEEN DATING ON AND OFF FOR ALL THESE YEARS!! I will say not all of the above information applies but a lot of it does and this information has given me so much to think about. My son was diagnosed with Bi-Polar disorder and I have been so focused on his well being I guess I have forgotten to look our for myself.Thank you for this post.

[Sassy]

I was married to madness for 7 years.
We're divorced now. (HappyDanceOMG!)
To this day our mutual friends and his family don't believe his the person I say he is -- no matter what I say, even when I try to tell them about the gun in my face and the blank look in his eyes. To them he is charming, witty, sociable, compassionate.
But I watched behind the scenes for almost a decade as he struggled to understand people and came up with intricate gestures/displays to put on in order to convince people he "cared"
He never accepts responsibility for his actions and is painfully passive aggressive. (I endured weeks of silent treatment for the smallest slights -- not loading the dishwasher "correctly"... really.)
He refuses to discuss his "feelings" -- these days I understand he just didn't have any to discuss -- or thoughts unless he thinks he will come off sounding intelligent and "win" the conversation.
He has no conscience. I've seen him lie and steal without blinking.
He disparaged every belief I held. (I'm pagan. We're all evidently pacifist suckers in his eyes.) Insulted every family member I loved. (My dieing grandfather? WTF?) And attempted to destroy every friendship I built. All the while putting on an amazing front to his friends and family, making himself look nearly heroic for all of the trials he endured "for the sake of our relationship."



If you find yourself on the crazy train I only have one piece of advice. Get off the train. You can't fix them. You can't save them. You can't even save the other passengers. Jump and run. Cut ties. Stop, drop and roll. Save yourself!

[MysticOceansFL]

I've worked with a few when I was a correctional officer and I'm so glad I'm outta that field of work!

[FeminineAllure]

Yes I have met a few sociopaths. They are long gone from my life now thank the universe.

[atomiczombie]

My older brother (by 4 years) is one of these people. I grew up under his thumb and my folks left the two of us alone a lot, assuming he would look after me since he was older. The opposite was always the case. We are estranged now.

[luv2luvgirls]

I have met a few in my time ...I also have noticed when you get space from different relationships regardless if they were romantic or just friendly....you can look back and be like woah! when you are going thru it it seems normal does that make any sense lol?

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by luv2luvgirls

I have met a few in my time ...I also have noticed when you get space from different relationships regardless if they were romantic or just friendly....you can look back and be like woah! when you are going thru it it seems normal does that make any sense lol?

It makes a ton of sense. Most of these people are experts at making everyone around them feel like "the crazy one." They depend on it...and work that weakness.

I agree with Sassy...the only "solution" is distance. Just run....fast and far and don't look back.

[luv2luvgirls]

Originally Posted by JustJo

It makes a ton of sense. Most of these people are experts at making everyone around them feel like "the crazy one." They depend on it...and work that weakness.

I agree with Sassy...the only "solution" is distance. Just run....fast and far and don't look back.

exactly!! run run run lol and go whew...

they do make you feel like it was all your fault,just like your the crazy one right on Jo! said it perfect

[NJFemmie]

I've come across more than I care to admit in my lifetime - but more recently, a friend of ours dated this guy who stated he worked for Homeland Security. As a former employee of a federally mandated program that dealt directly with various military branches but more specifically, the US Coast Guard and Homeland Security - I found it interesting that he couldn't answer basic questions.

Mare and I repeatedly told our friend that something was wrong with this guy. Even in the very beginning, I asked for his birth data and pulled up a quick astrology chart. One of the things I predicted was that he was living a double life - and sure enough - it was all that and more.

To make a long story short - turned out he was not an employee of Homeland Security. The DHS badge he was carrying was a fake that was purchased on the internet. All the DHS clothes he wore were also purchased online. He was in the military, but nothing to the extent of what he claimed. He made up elaborate stories of how he flew with a president and engaged in various crime investigations. He even tried to tell her that he was involved in a shooting where a young boy was shot - and that he was the one who shot him. All of his stories never made sense to me and put him in a timeline that didn't fit. Besides the fact that the military would not have been involved in the specific shooting he claimed to have been involved in. All he was was security at a shipyard.

He was also married and had a baby recently with another woman, even though he stated to our friend that he was unmarried. When his wife came by his house one day while our friend was there - he tried to tell our friend that she was an ex girlfriend who tried to claim that the baby she was carrying was his and it wasn't. It was. In fact, during the baby's christening - he left early to take our friend out to a concert. He was also only there a few hours when the baby was born - I think to take her out to dinner. He also told her that he "dated" some girl down south who had a baby, and even though the child wasn't his - he was supporting it because he felt bad that this woman was raising a child on her own. Turned out to be an ex wife and the baby was his.

He never let her come to his house - and he was always "working late". Everything he told her became more grandiose and unbelievable and we insisted that maybe she should show up at his door and demand to be let in. She never did that, but if she had, she would have discovered that he was married - as there was evidence of this all over the house. The wife, while pregnant, was temporarily staying with her parents that lived close by.

What ultimately led him to get busted was a text message that she received from his wife. Friends that were with her at the time of the text insisted that she meet with her and find out what was going on. That's when it all unraveled. Our friend even went to court proceedings on behalf of the wife. They have since divorced and last I heard, he was still playing a game of push/pull with the ex wife and child.

Another thing that was unsettling, was that this guy had several unregistered guns in his house and in his truck. They have since been confiscated. There is A LOT more to this story - but we are just happy this psycho is out of her life and she has since moved on - and we won't allow her to bring anyone here until we feel comfortable enough with whoever it is she dates.