Have you met or know a psychopath/sociopath?

[Lady Pamela]

Originally Posted by rustedrims

Well my sociopath sister has targeted my oldest sister.She has a college education but lacks "street smarts".There is a soft spot in her that the bad sister has gotten to.The bad sister called her and asked her to meet to talk.I went to my sisters house last night to educate her on what she is getting herself into.The visit started out ok but i was waiting for the other shoe to drop if i could say.When i told her the situation that happened between me and the bad sister she said it wasnt all that believeable.Then something else was brought up.I exploded between the 2 matters that was discussed.I did not lie to her!EVER!!What do i have to gain by lieing?I didnt know she was thinking i wasnt telling the truth.That is a great example that the evil sister is very convincing.She can tell a lie that is very believable.I dont think i will feel comfortable around her anymore.Before i left her house i told her i wouldnt be comming back.This situation has put a lot of unnessary stress on all of the family.I can see it is slowly splitting us up.I do not like that feeling.
I am not real sure how to start but i believe the only way i can feel safe and maybe some reliefe is to move away.I need to think this through and figure it out.

May I make a suggestion?
I will say this, the more you allow your relationship with the other sister to ruin due to your unhealthy sister..;.the more she wins.

Do not discuss her with her. Simply love each other on a 1 on 1 basis.
And don't speak of the other... understand?
DO NOT LET HER NEGATIVE STOP YOU POSOTIVE RELATIONSHIP .

Just saying.
And life is lonely without family as well.

[rustedrims]

Originally Posted by Lady Pamela

May I make a suggestion?
I will say this, the more you allow your relationship with the other sister to ruin due to your unhealthy sister..;.the more she wins.

Do not discuss her with her. Simply love each other on a 1 on 1 basis.
And don't speak of the other... understand?
DO NOT LET HER NEGATIVE STOP YOU POSOTIVE RELATIONSHIP .

Just saying.
And life is lonely without family as well.

That is a good suggestion/advise.I have thought of that and am trying to do things that way.Yes the evil sister will win if i give into her destruction.I will not give in.I could not imagine life with out the kids.I am not bringing them into this at all.If they ask i will answer truthfuly and honestly.Only if they ask.I do not make it the main disscussion of the visit.For now the evil sister seems to be staying away as she should.

Thank you Lady Pamela

[Nomad]

i read this guy's blog from time to time. i know this post is long but it was interesting.

------------


Differentiating the sociopath from the borderline from the narcissist

***(This article is copyrighted © 2012 by Steve Becker, LCSW. Use of the male gender pronoun was strictly for convenience’s sake and not to imply that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)***

Monday, 30 April 2012


Man, it’s not easy out there. Your partner clearly has a major personality disturbance, but sometimes separating borderline, narcissistic and sociopathic behavior can be hard. Real tough. Especially when there are spill-over behaviors, cross-contaminating behaviors and attitudes (as there often are) that further muddy the diagnostic waters.

Let’s look at rage, for instance. Rage is a major marker of the borderline and narcissistic personality. Sociopaths, being essentially malignant, high-end narcissists, like any full-blown narcissist, are also capable of frightful, bullying, abusive rages.

The borderline’s rage, much like the narcissist’s, tends to be elicted by disappoinment. And it’s not always “abandonment”-related. When the borderline, much like the narcissist, feels uncatered to, neglected or invalidated, WATCH OUT!!!!

The “tsunami” will be coming in a gigantic, overwhelming, RATIONALIZED WAVE. That wave will crash on you with shocking, destructive force, threatening to take your legs out from under you.

The sociopath’s rage is also elicited, commonly, by the frustration of his needs, demands, expectations. When that’s not the case, he may be salivating for some excitement, perhaps to escape the accumulating tension of his boredom; and so he may want a good dust-up to entertain himself: Unleashing his rage in a bullying assault may do the trick.

Remorse for the impact and damage of their rages is often missing in all three cases. Incredible, really INCREDIBLE rationalization, plus the astounding absence of self-reflection and accountability, is commonly missing as well.

The borderline feels as justified in his raging as the narcissist. His raging is pure narcissism being acted-out in the moment. The borderline, it is true, may later plead for forgiveness, but this is not always the case. Some borderlines will not pursue you at all after they’ve degraded you in a rage.

And not to confuse matters, but some narcissists and sociopaths will lobby for your forgiveness and amnesty after abusive displays in sometimes florid gestures of contrition.



The borderline and narcissist are both notorious vacillators along the idealizing-devaluing continuum. They are both “splitters” in the sense of perceiving others in rigidly black and white ways. When in their good graces, you are fantastic; their greatest luck and good fortune was to have met you; but disappoint them, and you are likely, suddenly, abruptly, to qualify as the worst, most despicable person they ever had the misfortune to cross paths with.

Sociopaths, in this sense, may be so disconnected, so pathologically disengaged from, and indifferent to, the emotional lives of others that, paradoxically, they may bring less of this particular kind of “splitting” drama to the table than borderlines and the typical narcissist.

This isn’t to suggest that sociopaths don’t “act out” in an outrageous variety of destructive ways. They can, and do.

And devaluation and contempt of others deeply, definingly characterizes the sociopath’s perspective; it’s just that the sociopath may actually exercise, and experience, his twisted emotional disconnection from others with sometimes (but not always!) less volatility than your typical borderline or narcissist. He may sometimes be more predictably, continuously indifferent, contemptuous and emotionally uninvested in others than his borderline or narcissistic counterpart.

The borderline can be callous and cruel, as can the narcissist and sociopath. Hmmm. When we are dealing with a callous, cruel individual whose aim is to BE DESTRUCTIVE (at least in the moment), with no compunction or remorse, but only contempt and hate for the object of his rage, then at least, for the moment, it may be somewhat immaterial which personality disorder we’re dealing with.

We may know later, but at the time, what difference does it really make? The individual’s present intent is clear—to hurt, destroy, inflict pain (in the borderline’s case, perhaps to discharge his pain by inflicting pain). But the experience on the other end, on your end, may be largely the same. You will feel variously abused, humiliated, threatened, degraded.

As noted, all three personality types may (or may not) later show contrition, thus contrition doesn’t accurately distinguish them. Plus, gauging the sincerity of an apology, its depth, is tough business. So again, this isn’t easy. Who are we dealing with? And does it even, always, matter?

I might add this rather vague, but possibly valid, observation: When borderlines aren’t “borderlining,” they are often really good and good-hearted individuals. They are often generous, authentic, sensitive and giving individuals. This is obviously a generalization. There are “borderlines” who, even when they aren’t raging, may be self-centered, jerky individuals, unpleasant and messed up in a million other ways. Still, many borderlines when they’re functioning above their “rage modes” are genuinely engaged, empathic, loving individuals.

You can not say this about the sociopath. This doesn’t mean the sociopath can’t “put this on.” But the sociopath, even when he isn’t obviously “sociopathing,” is always who he is at bottom: a cold, empty, empathically deficient, transgressive-minded individual who, at best, covers up his core contempt of others’ dignity and boundaries.

Not so with borderline personalities.

And narcissists who aren’t full-blown, those who retain a capacity to reflect on their narcissism (as some do) and its impact on those around them–which is tantamount to saying they retain a capacity (in less self-centered states of mind) to reflect on their impact on others with some degree of empathy–these narcissists, too, may be capable of authentic generosity, engagement and compassion, which makes them less incorrigible (and perhaps thus even more confusing) than the sociopath who, if he may sometimes present as the more stable, consistent personality, is clearly the most pathological of them all.

This article is intended to introduce the complicated challenge of differientating these volatile, destructive personalities; it is the first of several I intend to write.

[Glenn]

Just to lay this out here to give you a slight frame of reference that you can think about how various cluster B 's appear to act on the surface:
Casey Anthony was not affected by her daughter being gone. That's why she gave us that inappropriate, hideous, smile in the courtroom, and why she was smirking when she got arrested, plus a whole list of other odd behavior. She is a sociopath, not a borderline, histrionic, etc., but a sociopath like Dexter/Hannibal Lector/BTK/Ted Bundy, etc. That's what we're talking about here with Casey Anthony as an example. Someone like a teacher that screws her students well, that's a histrionic. Someone like Amy Winehouse, that's a borderline with severe ASPD.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

My older brother (by 4 years) is one of these people. I grew up under his thumb and my folks left the two of us alone a lot, assuming he would look after me since he was older. The opposite was always the case. We are estranged now.

As did I. Mine was five years older. He experimented on me with various different kinds of abuse. From when when I was about 4 until I was 12 and attacked him with a fireplace poker.

I have dated a couple narsissists. head fucking, for sure. However, I need to take some responsibility in that I needed to be caring for myself and not trying to find someone to care for me that I found charming and funny. Doing that sets one up as a target and although it didn't give them any right to be the dickheads they were, I do get attracted to certain types of chaotic, charming, funny, passionate people. I am now the one who does all the caretaking, but the issue is mine. I invite them in with my arms open and then bend over backwards to care for them and earn their attention.

[Girl_On_Fire]

Without getting into detail, I've definitely been in relationships with a few people who could fit into this description. People who are unbelievably charming and manipulative and seem to have that "Jekyll and Hyde" personality. Someone who practically worships you one minute and then turns on you like a rabid animal the next.

I've always tended to see the good in people but have become much more guarded as I've gotten older. I truly want the person, whatever they're going through, to be healed and happy. So many people have gone through abusive childhoods (myself included) and have come out incredibly, irreversibly messed up and that breaks my heart.

I really want to heal the world but not at the expense of my life and sanity.

[Corkey]

Does Romney count, 'cause the whole family does in my book.

[AnnRkey]

Originally Posted by Nat

and from http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Profile of the Sociopath:

- Glibness and Superficial Charm

-Manipulative and Conning

They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

-Grandiose Sense of Self

Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

-Pathological Lying

Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

-Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

-Shallow Emotions

When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

-Incapacity for Love

-Need for Stimulation

Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

-Callousness/Lack of Empathy

Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

-Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature

Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

-Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency

Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

-Irresponsibility/Unreliability

Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

-Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity

Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

-Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle

Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

-Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility

Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other Related Qualities:

Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
Authoritarian
Secretive
Paranoid
Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
Conventional appearance
Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
Incapable of real human attachment to another
Unable to feel remorse or guilt
Extreme narcissism and grandiose
May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)

WHoa! I think just almost totally describes my ex girlfriend of almost 6 years! Scary. Very scary.

[rustedrims]

A short update on my situation with my evil sister.As of yesterday I am finally done with a long year of unsupervised probation and 10 days of jail hanging over my head.She is no longer allowed to interact with the family.To my surprise she is staying away from all of us.I have seen her driving around town from time to time.My opinion she is to close.

I did stay "good" in my year of the probation and proved to the courts I am not a risk to the general public.Now I have to wait another year to get my record expunged.

My small victory I will take a year at a time.

[rustedrims]

Ya know I spent a night in jail because of my evil sister,well ok.It was a Friday night and we all like to do something on a Friday night.An experience I will never forget.It was very cold sleeping on a metal framed bed.The blanket was a very thin wool scratchy and smelled like ass even though it was clean.I am sure I slept no more than an hour of total time my eyes were closed.Didnt stay long enough to eat or take a shower.My older sister bailed me out the next morning.Very grateful for that!Ok I got over the jail thing in a few weeks.I lost a bucket full of money that can never be replaced.The last time I had a lawyer I was buying my house.Now I have another one for court dates.WTF!I do not like someone else in my money.I am having a hard time dealing with having a police record of something that I did not do!That is very hard for me to accept.I absolutely do not like or interact with adults that lie and have it being my sister doing this to me is unforgiveable and very hurtful.

Just having a hard time dealing with the money and the charge issue.Thought if I posted it might help to let go of some of it.i hope

thanks for reading

s

[psykftm]

Thank you for this- I am aiming to work with the antisocial population...I'm a dreamer though, I would like to reform the whole damn prison system. I just got out of my bachelors and still need to go to grad school though...but thank you for posting this!

[wahya]

I just found this thread. Gonna read some of these posts then give you my experience with one. Have been dealing with one for going on 6 yrs now on and off..My only child, my heart & soul..my beautiful daughter cannot seem to break free from one. I have salt n pepper hair & I swear every gray hair on my head is due to this. It's put me in a funk for aboout 3 weeks now. Because of my grandkids.

[PurerSands]

My ex boss was a sociopath I'm convinced. He being the reason of my resignation was also the biggest asshole I've ever met.

Sexist, up himself, needing constant praise, and not very clever.

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh even thinking about him makes my blood boil!

[DMW]

Originally Posted by always2late

Oh I had a doozy of an experience with a sociopath! It happened several years ago and went on for years! It was one of the most insane episodes I have ever experienced in my life.

Several years ago, I was involved in a relationship (neither of the people I am speaking of are on this site). He met a woman and the two of them became friends...she was involved with someone else, and at first, I saw nothing amiss with the friendship. Shortly thereafter, she began complaining to him about her partner...that her partner was abusive etc..and it seemed like he was spending all his time dealing with her "crisis" (there was a new one every day). This made me uncomfortable, and I told him so. He swore nothing was going on with the two of them...that they were just friends. And SHE also sent me an email, stating that she respected our relationship, and valued him as a friend, and that I had nothing to worry about....famous last words, right? lol

Anyway, she broke up with her partner (who apparently had NO idea hy was "abusive" (according to her)..and was completely shocked when she left)...and that's when the fun really started! Of course, I found out that she and my partner were not just "friends"...that it had crossed the line into the inappropriate (she was sending him naked pictures right around the same time she was sending me those glowing emails about how she "respected" our relationship). Naturally, this was not wholly her doing...he shared in the blame, and I am not one to totally point the finger at the femme...it takes two to tango, right? So, I ended it with him. Now, none of this is all that uncommon I suppose. I am sure that there are many of us here that have experienced this or something like it in our lifetime. However, this is where the typical screwed up drama veered off into the insane.

He apparently did not want us to end, and therefore, would not commit to her. Her response to this was to go on the attack....against me. And this is where the sociopathic/psychotic behavior began. She invented other email profiles, and began sending him letters about my character...some of these letters were from femmes I had "wronged", others from the butches I was "cheating" on him with, and still others from well meaning folks just trying to "warn him" that I was no good. She created whole chats between me and these other "people" and sent them to him. She created text messages, supposedly sent to her from me, calling her all kinds of vile things (apparently I guess she assumed this would paint me in a very bad light as a horrible person...forgetting I guess, that I never had her phone number, and that all the texts she showed him were saved in her drafts). She also created emails from me to her along the same vein...using an email address I no longer used. She even claimed that she had a friend who was a "computer expert" and could verify that the emails came from my address (my home address that is).

This did not go on for weeks, or even months...this went on for years! I have no idea why she decided to target me when I was out of the picture. I can only assume that her hatred toward me was motivated by the fact that he wouldn't commit to her...and she saw me as the cause. In between the malicious emails and texts were the threats of suicide, the never-ending crisis to gain attention, the constant claims of "victimization" at my hands...it was totally and completely insane and I've never experienced anything quite like it in my life. In the intervening years, I have met other people who have had experiences with this same woman...and have found that she completely fits the profile of a sociopath...the lies, the malicious behavior, the adoption of varying personalities to fit the situation and/or person she is with....the list goes on and on. Fortunately, I am no longer the object of her "attention"...and can only hope that no one else is suffering the ill effects of her disorder.

Oh yes. This. Exactly and Ditto.
Thank you for this post Blondie.

[Lady Pamela]

Re read my post here and I don't know what happened with the spacing but wow...lol

Bumping the thread for those who may not have seen it. I found it to be a great one.