Legalization of drugs, pros and cons!

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I can't find the original post, but in the other thread someone alluded to the fact that you can tell who has children and who doesn't have children based on their stance on this subject.

I really -really- just need to say that I don't think that's a fair statement to make at all. My choosing not to become a parent has no relation at all to my political or morale stance. On this issue or -any- issue.

Absolutely. If there were any truth to the nonsense that there's a correlation between one's stance on drugs and one's parental status, then there wouldn't be any junkie parents in the world.

[PearlsNLace]

I work for a clinic that treats people who have become addicted to prescription drugs.

We also treat Heroin and cocaine addictions also.

I can not tell the desperation apart, when these people first come into treatment. Without reading the charts, all I see are the miserable symptoms of withdrawl.


Knowing this, would I make it legal? Hell yeah. Making it illegal really only punishes the families, and makes the cycles of addiction worse, due to the compound effect of secretive shame, the harrassment of law enforcement- and the financial drain that at this point benfits NOT A DAMN person worth having it. Use the money from taxes and what-not for education and then treatment if/when addiction happens.

I dont see a difference, outside of cultural acceptance, of a prescribed pill vs a street drug. They are all hard drugs. The road to recovery is brutal for all of them. Less likely for Heroin? Perhaps. But I do believe a large portion of that is due to the very nature of what it takes to AQUIRE those drugs, and that has to do with it being illegal, and not regulated.

So, just in case you were wondering, YES I do believe we need to change the way prescription drugs are regulated in this country. The current system has some doctors scared to medicate patients when they have pain, have other doctors just writing carte blanc scripts that get sold on the black market. Our system is NOT working. And then there are the countless who are no longer even seeking medical advice, and aquiring meds somehow on their own without medical training at all. These things scare me. Our system does not work.
I dont see this changing though. Currently the system is benifiting pharmaceutical companies, and they pay the politicians.

If you want something changed, you dont protest, you shell out cash. If this is jaded, I am willing to look at another view. For today, this is my opinion.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Jess

For clarification, I am asking if you were being a "devil's advocate" as it has been stated by more than one member here that it ain't cool unless you say you are "upfront" and even then.. not cool unless you are going along with the popular opinion en masse. Do I need to pull up examples? I will do so in pvt if needed. I could not discern by the contrasting statements of your previous posts if you were A) agreeing with everyone B) being devil's advocate to further the discussion to some more pertinent destination or C) just talkin or D) had no real opinion and just made this thread cause someone suggested it on the AZ boycott thread.

I was confused. Seeking public opinion is cool in my book. if that is all this is about then cool. Carry on.

Thank you for clarifying.

I never heard about having to be up front about playing DA, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And no, I don't need examples, either in private or here.

A) I have stated my opinion, several times actually. I am not sure what parts are contrasting but I will be willing to clarify if you need me to.

B) I am seeking public opinion.

C) I don't make/start threads just because people ask me to.

and finally D) It is safe to say that I hardly agree with everyone, that is not who I am. I state my points and opinions quite openly and passionately.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Betenoire,

I agree with you. I think about the kids who are violent and go on shooting rampages in their schools. What about violent video games that kids play? And the R rating that everyone knows kids of all ages watch due to the internet, Blockbuster, and Netflix.

I don't have kids. That has nothing to do with my morals or my values. Same as you.

Plus my older sister is a cocaine and heroine addict. She has 2 kids.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by PearlsNLace

I work for a clinic that treats people who have become addicted to prescription drugs.

We also treat Heroin and cocaine addictions also.

I can not tell the desperation apart, when these people first come into treatment. Without reading the charts, all I see are the miserable symptoms of withdrawl.


Knowing this, would I make it legal? Hell yeah. Making it illegal really only punishes the families, and makes the cycles of addiction worse, due to the compound effect of secretive shame, the harrassment of law enforcement- and the financial drain that at this point benfits NOT A DAMN person worth having it. Use the money from taxes and what-not for education and then treatment if/when addiction happens.

I dont see a difference, outside of cultural acceptance, of a prescribed pill vs a street drug. They are all hard drugs. The road to recovery is brutal for all of them. Less likely for Heroin? Perhaps. But I do believe a large portion of that is due to the very nature of what it takes to AQUIRE those drugs, and that has to do with it being illegal, and not regulated.

So, just in case you were wondering, YES I do believe we need to change the way prescription drugs are regulated in this country. The current system has some doctors scared to medicate patients when they have pain, have other doctors just writing carte blanc scripts that get sold on the black market. Our system is NOT working. And then there are the countless who are no longer even seeking medical advice, and aquiring meds somehow on their own without medical training at all. These things scare me. Our system does not work.
I dont see this changing though. Currently the system is benifiting pharmaceutical companies, and they pay the politicians.

If you want something changed, you dont protest, you shell out cash. If this is jaded, I am willing to look at another view. For today, this is my opinion.

So, please help me here. Regulated, prescribed drugs are being abused, so we need all drugs no matter of the consequence of taking them to be legal? This will help you in your daily encounters with addicts how?

I am seriously amazed and confused by this position within our community. A community laden with addiction.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I can't find the original post, but in the other thread someone alluded to the fact that you can tell who has children and who doesn't have children based on their stance on this subject.

I really -really- just need to say that I don't think that's a fair statement to make at all. My choosing not to become a parent has no relation at all to my political or morale stance. On this issue or -any- issue.

Really? I want to see that. Could you find it for me?

I have made a few posts on this forum referencing my son, so yeah I have one, and my stance is not based on that fact, nor does it or did it change my stand.

I can't believe someone would make such a blanket statement.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

Thank you for clarifying.

I never heard about having to be up front about playing DA, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And no, I don't need examples, either in private or here.

A) I have stated my opinion, several times actually. I am not sure what parts are contrasting but I will be willing to clarify if you need me to.

B) I am seeking public opinion.

C) I don't make/start threads just because people ask me to.

and finally D) It is safe to say that I hardly agree with everyone, that is not who I am. I state my points and opinions quite openly and passionately.

I appreciate your position. Thanks for clarifying.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I can't find the original post, but in the other thread someone alluded to the fact that you can tell who has children and who doesn't have children based on their stance on this subject.

I really -really- just need to say that I don't think that's a fair statement to make at all. My choosing not to become a parent has no relation at all to my political or morale stance. On this issue or -any- issue.

Can you however say the same thing for the addicted woman who is raped, used, or too high to know better who ends up pregnant as a result of needing that fix?

How will making these drugs readily available without consequence change that? I am just really boggled.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Jess

Can you however say the same thing for the addicted woman who is raped, used, or too high to know better who ends up pregnant as a result of needing that fix?

How will making these drugs readily available without consequence change that? I am just really boggled.

I think anyone who is raped, no matter what the circumstances where, should have the option of having an abortion. That is another topic.

Someone could be raped not just because they are high on drugs, so this statement boggles my mind.

Drugs are readily available now, it is just more dangerous and more expensive to get them. Shouldn't THAT be a deterrent to those who are addicted? It obviously isn't.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

Really? I want to see that. Could you find it for me?

I pm'd you the quote and post number.

Originally Posted by Jess

Can you however say the same thing for the addicted woman who is raped, used, or too high to know better who ends up pregnant as a result of needing that fix?

You are completely missing my point. My point being that being a parent or not being a parent has NO correlation to my (or anybodies) political or moral ideas. HOW someone becomes a parent doesn't change this.

How will making these drugs readily available without consequence change that? I am just really boggled.

Change what? Change the fact that not having children is irrelevant to my thoughts/feelings on the subject? Again, you are missing my point and not making any sense.

Now I shall go walk to the grocery store. Toodles, bfp-people.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Jess

So, please help me here. Regulated, prescribed drugs are being abused, so we need all drugs no matter of the consequence of taking them to be legal? This will help you in your daily encounters with addicts how?

I am seriously amazed and confused by this position within our community. A community laden with addiction.

Addiction is a DISEASE.

Alcohol is legal. Oxycontin is legal. Where I live, medicinal marijuana is legal.

Regulate the disease, take away the criminal element of most substances and let doctors treat addiction patients in offices, in a medical setting where the disease can be addressed.

It would help me in my daily encounters with addicts because I would not worry about somebody robbing my home, stealing my car, etc. etc., in order to procure illegal substances. Instead, a medical professional can help the addict and treat the disease.

Imagine the taking back of neighborhoods? The removal of the allure of quick cash selling crack/heroin/meth on the street corner for fast big cash? We'd get our youth back, and our future may not look so bleak.j

I don't think it is completely crazy to think about.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

I think anyone who is raped, no matter what the circumstances where, should have the option of having an abortion. That is another topic.

Someone could be raped not just because they are high on drugs, so this statement boggles my mind.

Drugs are readily available now, it is just more dangerous and more expensive to get them. Shouldn't THAT be a deterrent to those who are addicted? It obviously isn't.

Yes, absolutely someone can be raped without drugs being involved. It is an act of violence as well as opportunity. Unfortunately, the "opportunity" aspect increases dramatically under the influence of drugs. Yes, indeed a topic for another discussion.

Yes, agreed it should be a deterrent, just like vomiting with heroin would make normal folks go "ewwwwwwwww". However, in the throes of addiction folks will do insane things to get that "high". Why make such detrimental outcomes that much easier? Why not focus the energy into healthier options? Like equal human rights? Something that creates CORE issues within folks who turn to drugs out of debased self esteem? Like REAL healthcare.. something that sends chronic pain patients to street drugs for relief?

Go to the REAL shit instead of the bogus trappings is all i am thinking.

I agree with your points and truly do appreciate the discourse.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I pm'd you the quote and post number.



You are completely missing my point. My point being that being a parent or not being a parent has NO correlation to my (or anybodies) political or moral ideas. HOW someone becomes a parent doesn't change this.



Change what? Change the fact that not having children is irrelevant to my thoughts/feelings on the subject? Again, you are missing my point and not making any sense.

Now I shall go walk to the grocery store. Toodles, bfp-people.

I do get your point and agree that "choosing" to not have children is not an immoral act. It is a choice. I chose the same. My point was for addicts, sometimes those options aren't there. They are victims to their disease. Period.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Oxycotin caused me to have a heart attack. I am not surprised it legal in CA. It takes a year or so for things to come across and make it to the East Coast.

[SuperFemme]

Drug addicts are humans too. Legalizing drugs just might give them a chance at equality.

BTW, its lack of heroin that makes one vomit. Same with vicodin or any other opiate based pain reliever. Chronic pain patients are treated like criminals at the local pharmacy every day...

[weatherboi]

Most people that opt for narcotics like crystal meth ,heroin,crack, and cocaine are gonna most likely continue on that road. Choosing to enslave one's self to an addiction goes much deeper than the drugs available on the street or the drugs that are legal. I don't think recreational experiences will satisfy that need. I think we would see only a small percentage of addicts be able to sustain themselves with pot or other less addictive drugs alone.
Experimental use of narcotics will probably remain the same.

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

For me, legalize means over the counter, not by prescription. As for practical purposes or healing properties, one could ask the same of pretty much every food item sold in a convenience store. There's no practical purpose to twinkies. Oh, wait, except for pot munchies.

Question for everyone. If all drugs were legal, would people still do shit like meth? Or would they opt for a good high that doesn't fuck you up so badly?

[Jess]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Addiction is a DISEASE.

Alcohol is legal. Oxycontin is legal. Where I live, medicinal marijuana is legal.

Regulate the disease, take away the criminal element of most substances and let doctors treat addiction patients in offices, in a medical setting where the disease can be addressed.

It would help me in my daily encounters with addicts because I would not worry about somebody robbing my home, stealing my car, etc. etc., in order to procure illegal substances. Instead, a medical professional can help the addict and treat the disease.

Imagine the taking back of neighborhoods? The removal of the allure of quick cash selling crack/heroin/meth on the street corner for fast big cash? We'd get our youth back, and our future may not look so bleak.j

I don't think it is completely crazy to think about.

Sorry to disagree with your logic, although I can see it. I don't see where making becoming addicted easier will make getting treatment any better. They don't give federal money now for addicts. Why would that change? There was a short period in the 80's where "treatment" was the trendy thing to do and insurance companies actually paid for it. Those days are way over and it is now "optional". Imagine that. It's optional to get treatment, as it is optional to become an addict. So says Blue Cross.

I try to see the point in legalizing highly addictive chemicals, but sorry, I just don't.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Jess

Yes, absolutely someone can be raped without drugs being involved. It is an act of violence as well as opportunity. Unfortunately, the "opportunity" aspect increases dramatically under the influence of drugs. Yes, indeed a topic for another discussion.

Yes, agreed it should be a deterrent, just like vomiting with heroin would make normal folks go "ewwwwwwwww". However, in the throes of addiction folks will do insane things to get that "high". Why make such detrimental outcomes that much easier? Why not focus the energy into healthier options? Like equal human rights? Something that creates CORE issues within folks who turn to drugs out of debased self esteem? Like REAL healthcare.. something that sends chronic pain patients to street drugs for relief?

Go to the REAL shit instead of the bogus trappings is all i am thinking.

I agree with your points and truly do appreciate the discourse.

Thank you for engaging.

Here is the way I see this, and this doesn't mean it is the ONLY way or the RIGHT way to see it, it simply means this is the way I see it. Instead of saying, "Why make such detrimental outcomes that much easier?" and I quote you, I say, why not make such a detrimental outcome that much safer?

I think that we agree that addiction sees no deterrents, or at least that is what I see by your post. So, if there are no deterrents, why not make it safer? Why not supply more help where it counts, as in counseling?

I am not an expert, this is jut my opinion.

As for the other issues I agree, we need real health care, we need Human Rights to be Equal rights, but I don't see how this applies to addiction. Perhaps you can help me with that.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

Oxycotin caused me to have a heart attack. I am not surprised it legal in CA. It takes a year or so for things to come across and make it to the East Coast.

It is sold with a prescription in FL. Perhaps the State you reside at is different.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

Legalize everything and tax everything. I'd much rather have meth manufactured in a controlled environment and sold with an ingredients list than have it manufactured in someone's shed where it's polluting the water and endangering lives.

There's no down side to full legalization. Massive layoffs in the prison industry and DA's offices don't count as a downside in my book.

agreed.

making it *legal* isn't going to make me want to use meth/crack/whatever.

this also would de-criminalize the addict.

also, anything can make an addict fixate--have you seen those people that have 'loving relationships' with inanimate objects like the eiffel tower?

(i say addict/fixate and i do think that addiction and your 'drug of choice' takes the place of a REAL relationship, when an addict is in an active-addiction stage)