If the stone "melts," is it stone?

ClintB · 04-30-2017, 09:42 PM

I think in an ideal world we would all understand labels to mean the same things, and we would all know what labels to give ourselves.

But for me this is not the case. I seem to get lost in every divide set out before me. And thus it is the same with the word stone.

I generally avoid this word to describe myself, for all the reasons stated above. The truth is, I don't really know if I am stone or not, for a variety of very complex reasons that have to do with a mix of identity and sexual history. im afraid if I tell partners I'm stone, they will expect something that I may not end up being. Im afraid if I tell them I'm not stone then they will violate boundaries in ways that are very real and hurtful. I am still trying to grapple and heal from an ex who though she could show me a good time and "fix" me... it was aweful, embarrassing, and scarring. It darn near may qualify as assault, but in the end I went along with it out of guilt.

But there is this idea in my head that with the right partner, I could enjoy touch again (it was a while ago, but I have had enjoyable experiences). I look at new partners and think she may be the one. But if there is one thing I have learned, it's that it's my body who is in the drivers seat, not me. I cannot will my body to enjoy things out of sheer will.

And I know what comes with that label. There are mainly two groups of women: those that understand, and those that think you are something to break or conquer. And the second group is much much larger.

CherylNYC · 05-01-2017, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClintB

...im afraid if I tell partners I'm stone, they will expect something that I may not end up being. Im afraid if I tell them I'm not stone then they will violate boundaries in ways that are very real and hurtful. I am still trying to grapple and heal from an ex who though she could show me a good time and "fix" me... it was aweful, embarrassing, and scarring. It darn near may qualify as assault, but in the end I went along with it out of guilt.

...There are mainly two groups of women: those that understand, and those that think you are something to break or conquer. And the second group is much much larger.

I'm so sorry that happened to you, ClintB. Yes, I agree that what you described sounds like sexual assault. I hope you're healing and thriving now.

Mel C. · 05-01-2017, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClintB

I think in an ideal world we would all understand labels to mean the same things, and we would all know what labels to give ourselves.

But for me this is not the case. I seem to get lost in every divide set out before me. And thus it is the same with the word stone.

I generally avoid this word to describe myself, for all the reasons stated above. The truth is, I don't really know if I am stone or not, for a variety of very complex reasons that have to do with a mix of identity and sexual history. im afraid if I tell partners I'm stone, they will expect something that I may not end up being. Im afraid if I tell them I'm not stone then they will violate boundaries in ways that are very real and hurtful.

exactly! Thanks for the post. It's hard to communicate boundaries when I'm not certain of them myself

Breathless · 05-01-2017, 06:39 PM

Great topic Nat!
Labels drive me nuts, however I do understand their necessity and purpose. **For each of us to identify like minded people, emphasis on like-minded, not carbon copied cookie cutter twins. Labels are meant to be descriptors, not the definition of who you are and what you like, limited to, never straying from.

I have a limited list of 'must haves' when it comes to my interactions with my partner behind closed doors, kisses, hugs, cuddles and I like holding hands.. The rest of 'our to do list' is defined by our own personal boundaries. Boundaries and respect is mandatory in ALL relationships. Consent is not negotiable.

The mistake people tend to make, in my honest opinion, is getting in to a relationship with someone, and thinking that they can change them. It’s not your right to change them! Other than maybe turn that frown upside down.. But seriously, if people walk into a relationship thinking that they can and will change someone, then they are only kidding themselves. Now on the flip side, in time, people do evolve and do change, but that is their choice as to the what and how, and the change might be from Heinz ketchup to hunts..

girl_dee · 05-01-2017, 07:06 PM

maybe we can move this thread out of the butch zone? i would love to talk about this but i am thinking this was directed at the butches?

Medusa · 05-01-2017, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by girl_dee

maybe we can move this thread out of the butch zone? i would love to talk about this but i am thinking this was directed at the butches?

I was just about to suggest we start one in the Femme zone or just the regular sex and kink forum

girl_dee · 05-02-2017, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medusa

I was just about to suggest we start one in the Femme zone or just the regular sex and kink forum

i like the POV from butch AND femme on same thread regarding this particular subject, however thats up to you of course

Kelt · 05-02-2017, 07:52 AM

Observation, at an over 2:1 posting ratio, it's already a femme thread.

*Anya* · 05-01-2017, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by girl_dee

maybe we can move this thread out of the butch zone? i would love to talk about this but i am thinking this was directed at the butches?

Sometimes discussions happen organically.

Any special reason you are making the suggestion?

I think we are allowed to discuss issues of concern to butch and femme wherever they arise unless it is a problem.

girl_dee · 05-02-2017, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Anya*

Sometimes discussions happen organically.

Any special reason you are making the suggestion?

I think we are allowed to discuss issues of concern to butch and femme wherever they arise unless it is a problem.

because i don't feel comfortable posting from a femme POV in the butch zone unless i am invited to and it seems this was directed at the butches.

*Anya* · 05-01-2017, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breathless

The mistake people tend to make, in my honest opinion, is getting in to a relationship with someone, and thinking that they can change them. It’s not your right to change them! Other than maybe turn that frown upside down.. But seriously, if people walk into a relationship thinking that they can and will change someone, then they are only kidding themselves. Now on the flip side, in time, people do evolve and do change, but that is their choice as to the what and how, and the change might be from Heinz ketchup to hunts..

I don't think everything is cut and dried.

There is a third option.

With my long-term ex, she was stone through our first 10 years.

I never pressured her to be different.

She stated to me that when she first came out, she had relationships where she was not stone and over time, decided it was not for her.

After about our 10th year, she stated she would like to see what it was like again, that at one point, early in her sexual life with women, she had enjoyed receiving oral sex.

Of course, I was fine with her choice because I never was stone but loved her so whatever she needed or wanted- I would go either direction. I had never made her feel badly and never was abusively pushing her. She told me she wanted to try it again so I was happy to participate. It was solely her decision.

It would have been ok either way at whatever her decision would have been.

People in an intimate relationship have a right to try things and they have the right to decide what works for them and what fits for them. They also have the right to say that stone really is their preference-that they tried something different, thought it would be ok and it wasn't.

If you love them, you go with the flow. If you just can't deal with it or it doesn't work for you; either of you must move on.

That is ok, too.

ClintB · 05-01-2017, 10:16 PM

I live breathless and Anya's posts... because both come from a place of respect. Wouldn't life be better if we could always love and respect our partner no matter if they change or stay the same?

That being said... I don't think there is anything wrong with knowing what you need, or even simply what you prefer. I hear some people in here express their interest in only stone lovers... and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. But with all things, the more rigid your requirements, the harder it is to meet someone that meets them. Some sexualities and preferences are rigid, some are not. I would just caution, if your partner changes in a way that you cannot accept, don't let your hurt and anger drive you to insult them for who they are.

cathexis · 05-02-2017, 12:47 AM

Live with a stone butch who on rare occasion melts, but like volcanic lava becomes solid again. In no way do I have any concerns about Her status as stone. She identifies as stone, I accept it without question. Her own self identification is all I need. I have no right to question anyone else's identification as I expect no one to question mine. She is who She says She is, and I am who I say I am.

Haven't we had enough of others saying who we should be? As a community, we have had "who we should be" forced on us way too long from outsiders. Do we really need to do it to ourselves?

Being truly genderqueer, I feel very strong about this issue.

StoicStone · 06-04-2017, 03:39 PM

I identify as stone butch, and I have always lived by my own rules, and set/upheld my own boundaries. I think that other's people's boundaries and whether or not they cross some boundary I might have is none of my business as long as they are not crossing it with me. I don't judge it.

05-01-2017, 06:39 PM	#4
Breathless Brat Extraordinaire How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, her Relationship Status: Happy Tournaments Won: 23 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Alberta Canada Posts: 1,412 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 7,549 Thanked 4,101 Times in 958 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	Great topic Nat! Labels drive me nuts, however I do understand their necessity and purpose. For each of us to identify like minded people, emphasis on like-minded, not carbon copied cookie cutter twins. Labels are meant to be descriptors, not the definition of who you are and what you like, limited to, never straying from. I have a limited list of 'must haves' when it comes to my interactions with my partner behind closed doors, kisses, hugs, cuddles and I like holding hands.. The rest of 'our to do list' is defined by our own personal boundaries. Boundaries and respect is mandatory in ALL relationships. Consent is not negotiable. The mistake people tend to make, in my honest opinion, is getting in to a relationship with someone, and thinking that they can change them. It’s not your right to change them! Other than maybe turn that frown upside down.. But seriously, if people walk into a relationship thinking that they can and will change someone, then they are only kidding themselves. Now on the flip side, in time, people do evolve and do change, but that is their choice as to the what and how, and the change might be from Heinz ketchup to hunts.. __________________ BE the change you wish to see in the world. Gandhi**

05-02-2017, 12:47 AM	#13
cathexis Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Trotskyist, Anarcho-syndicalist Preferred Pronoun?: They, Them, Their, Sir Bitch Relationship Status: open Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Great White North! Posts: 4,332 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 16,812 Thanked 4,710 Times in 1,603 Posts Rep Power: 21474848	Live with a stone butch who on rare occasion melts, but like volcanic lava becomes solid again. In no way do I have any concerns about Her status as stone. She identifies as stone, I accept it without question. Her own self identification is all I need. I have no right to question anyone else's identification as I expect no one to question mine. She is who She says She is, and I am who I say I am. Haven't we had enough of others saying who we should be? As a community, we have had "who we should be" forced on us way too long from outsiders. Do we really need to do it to ourselves? Being truly genderqueer, I feel very strong about this issue. __________________ Insurrection is an art, and like all arts has its own laws. -----Leon Trotsky

04-30-2017, 09:42 PM	#1
ClintB Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch, questioning Preferred Pronoun?: Interested in your opinion Relationship Status: Downtrodden Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Traveler Posts: 68 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6 Thanked 254 Times in 65 Posts Rep Power: 2362243	I think in an ideal world we would all understand labels to mean the same things, and we would all know what labels to give ourselves. But for me this is not the case. I seem to get lost in every divide set out before me. And thus it is the same with the word stone. I generally avoid this word to describe myself, for all the reasons stated above. The truth is, I don't really know if I am stone or not, for a variety of very complex reasons that have to do with a mix of identity and sexual history. im afraid if I tell partners I'm stone, they will expect something that I may not end up being. Im afraid if I tell them I'm not stone then they will violate boundaries in ways that are very real and hurtful. I am still trying to grapple and heal from an ex who though she could show me a good time and "fix" me... it was aweful, embarrassing, and scarring. It darn near may qualify as assault, but in the end I went along with it out of guilt. But there is this idea in my head that with the right partner, I could enjoy touch again (it was a while ago, but I have had enjoyable experiences). I look at new partners and think she may be the one. But if there is one thing I have learned, it's that it's my body who is in the drivers seat, not me. I cannot will my body to enjoy things out of sheer will. And I know what comes with that label. There are mainly two groups of women: those that understand, and those that think you are something to break or conquer. And the second group is much much larger.

05-01-2017, 07:06 PM	#5
girl_dee Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: dee Relationship Status: Hitched up Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Livin’ the Dream Posts: 24,079 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,560 Thanked 54,958 Times in 13,923 Posts Rep Power: 21474873	maybe we can move this thread out of the butch zone? i would love to talk about this but i am thinking this was directed at the butches?

05-02-2017, 07:52 AM	#8
Kelt Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Beach Butch Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: SoCal Posts: 2,751 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 19,765 Thanked 15,378 Times in 2,541 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Observation, at an over 2:1 posting ratio, it's already a femme thread.

05-01-2017, 10:16 PM	#12
ClintB Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch, questioning Preferred Pronoun?: Interested in your opinion Relationship Status: Downtrodden Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Traveler Posts: 68 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6 Thanked 254 Times in 65 Posts Rep Power: 2362243	I live breathless and Anya's posts... because both come from a place of respect. Wouldn't life be better if we could always love and respect our partner no matter if they change or stay the same? That being said... I don't think there is anything wrong with knowing what you need, or even simply what you prefer. I hear some people in here express their interest in only stone lovers... and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. But with all things, the more rigid your requirements, the harder it is to meet someone that meets them. Some sexualities and preferences are rigid, some are not. I would just caution, if your partner changes in a way that you cannot accept, don't let your hurt and anger drive you to insult them for who they are.

06-04-2017, 03:39 PM	#14
StoicStone Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Stone Butch.............. Preferred Pronoun?: No preference............... Relationship Status: single............... Join Date: May 2017 Location: Washington.................. Posts: 35 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 0 Thanked 135 Times in 31 Posts Rep Power: 445520	I identify as stone butch, and I have always lived by my own rules, and set/upheld my own boundaries. I think that other's people's boundaries and whether or not they cross some boundary I might have is none of my business as long as they are not crossing it with me. I don't judge it.