Stone--Personal Definitions

[apretty]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Just a little aside? I am not sure why you would post that. It is to me downright rude after others have come before you to share their personal feelings on what stone means.

how is that a little aside? oh. you're mocking my choice of words.

at any rate, i don't know how i could have been more personal in my explicit sharing of how i define stone.

sorry, i guess this is one of those instances where someone (me) isn't doing it right.*

*i've never, however, had anyone leap from my bed because they felt that i was feminizing them (read: not doing it right).

please carry on, i have no desire to turn this thread "to shit" by either defending my definition of stone or by the fact that i have zero desire to have *stone* be a part of my personal identity.

[Bard]

OK I will try and give my story if you will it is kind of hard for me but I know here I may not be judged.. I for a long time did not know what I was had no idea that I was stone I just kenw I was diffrent I am and alwys have been a very sexual creature.. but I just did not or could not "feel it" I would fake it just to please who I was with or just to get them to stop. I learned to be more the agressor to be more drive her more wear her out then the focus is on her not on me became very one sided. I learned to read what a woman wanted becmae a very attentive lover. then I found butch femme and I read and I learned I grew and became so sure of me. I love the dance the exchanging of energy the way my lover responds to me how I can drive her pleasure and desire chrashing it drives me. at long last I understand me it is not that a touch can feminize me it is just I freeze up .. I have to be touched in a diffrent way .. my mind my heart .. there has been once yes but only then .. at least here we understand each other and do not look at being stone as a sexual disfunction only a person with limited understanding would say that and yes the one who reached me is the one who said it Stone is just who and what I am from the inside just a block of ice and I am strong and secure in that

[Nat]

I thought I was stone for a while in that I had issues penetrating another person. I found it upsetting and it turned me off. In my case, though, it was a stopping place on my own journey, rather than the final port of call.

I eventually figured out I was deeply afraid of violating another person, that when I went there, it bothered me because of this fear - to the point where I was dissociating a bit. On top of that, I was just new and I hate being bad at stuff.

Over time and in increments, what part of me I considered stone went away. I am still extremely concerned with knowing boundaries and with trusting my lover to have a strong "no" should she ever need to use it, because I don't want to find out after the fact that something I have done made another person feel violated. It's still a really deep fear. Having confidence and trust in this respect has just really allowed me to be in my own skin and just be able to enjoy (relish) those experiences which I was most reticent about before. Plus, it helps when you're with somebody just really amazing.

Even though I'm not stone anymore, I am really grateful to those stone femmes who were there for me back then. Without several wise stone femme voices, I may have mistakenly felt during that time that maybe I wasn't queer after all or queer enough. I was very recently out of a straight marriage at that time, and I was so unsteady on my feet. The voices and presence of stone people within the community really made me feel like there was a home for me here whether or not I had the capacity or desire to perform to the standards and reciprocity levels that I may have otherwise felt were expected of me.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by Nat

I thought I was stone for a while in that I had issues penetrating another person. I found it upsetting and it turned me off. In my case, though, it was a stopping place on my own journey, rather than the final port of call.

I eventually figured out I was deeply afraid of violating another person, that when I went there, it bothered me because of this fear - to the point where I was dissociating a bit. On top of that, I was just new and I hate being bad at stuff.

Over time and in increments, what part of me I considered stone went away. I am still extremely concerned with knowing boundaries and with trusting my lover to have a strong "no" should she ever need to use it, because I don't want to find out after the fact that something I have done made another person feel violated. It's still a really deep fear. Having confidence and trust in this respect has just really allowed me to be in my own skin and just be able to enjoy (relish) those experiences which I was most reticent about before. Plus, it helps when you're with somebody just really amazing.

Even though I'm not stone anymore, I am really grateful to those stone femmes who were there for me back then. Without several wise stone femme voices, I may have mistakenly felt during that time that maybe I wasn't queer after all or queer enough. I was very recently out of a straight marriage at that time, and I was so unsteady on my feet. The voices and presence of stone people within the community really made me feel like there was a home for me here whether or not I had the capacity or desire to perform to the standards and reciprocity levels that I may have otherwise felt were expected of me.

Heh. I was thinking of posting here but eventually it looked familiar to me and so I searched and found myself. Much of what I said above remains the same now.

I've run into enough variations with butches who call themselves stone and those who do not that I mainly take that word to mean I need more info before proceeding in certain directions, while erring on the side of caution. I think I tend to do this with most butches unless I get like a hundred percent have-at green light.

I'm really glad people know their boundaries because what really sucks is when people don't know their boundaries til they've been crossed. I guess to me stone equates to boundaries more than identity or whom I would date or whom that person would date. I'm not stone, but I certainly wouldn't kick a stone butch out of bed. Or a stone femme either for that matter.

Chemistry is magical - to me the boundaries, the different dynamics between two people - it's just all part of that same magic - something largely unique to me and that other person. What acts are performed or how or what parts are treated what ways etc - all of that is part of the natural flow and the magic, the play of darkness and light, the energy exchange when the chemistry's right. To me the chemistry is the main deal, and everything else can be worked with or around - and trust is part - the biggest part - of that.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I can really relate to that. the first three female lovers I had were stone. and I did not want to penetrate anyone. I was very slowly introduced to it by my fourth whom made me understand it wasn't feminising. once I understood that, that the inside of a butch felt...well... *butch* I was good to go.

I didn't ID as stonefemme then as it never really came up as an ID up for discussion. I didn't start seeing it until later. I saw it as just a factual boundary. Not really an ID, at the time. Sort of like, if someone isn't into anal sex. or nipple clamps.

Since then it hasn't really been a big deal if someone is stone or not in terms of penetration. But I do need someone who's willing to let me feel their flesh cock swell in my mouth. cause I can't not ever not have that again. But as for being penetrated... if they don't want it... ok. plenty of other things to do for them.

But since I am happy to penetrate those who want it, I can't call myself a stonefemme. And since 80% submissive and bottom... I go for the label of fuckdolly or pillowqueen.

so. Chemistry IS the big deal. completely. I've had a huge learning curve about the difference between a dominant and a top. And it makes a heap of sense now.

[Blaze]

You know, this one is going to be difficult for me to express, only because so many of you have touched bases on what I wanted to say. But let me give it a try anyway... Perhaps, in a different view.
I recall my childhood years as always wishing I was a boy, I grew up with 97% male entities around me, though I worshiped my Mother. So basically everything about me was male identified. Except when my Mother put the dresses on and shooed me off to school. But I quickly figured out how to out smart her, (or so I thought) by putting on shorts under the dress and as I was shooed out the door I would pull off the dress and put on my t-shirt and toss the dress into the bushes knowing that I had to run home quickly so I could put the dress on as if I had been wearing it all day. (Mom stopped forcing me to wear them when she found them in the bushes daily is what she admitted to me much later in life) <~What a Woman!


In my teens/young twenties. I was just one of the boys, sports, cars, surfing, checking out woman. And I also remember my Mother taking me to Sears and allowing me to shop in the men's department, even allowing me to wear boxers because I would steal my brothers new ones that she bought them, so she just let me pick my own because theirs were to big for me anyway. Flash forward to my first relationship, She respected my masculinity and allowed me to be the aggressor and become the male identified person that I was. So I guess you could say I was lucky to have a woman that was Stone Femme and we both appreciated each others company and space. Now my next relationship was short lived, as I tried for weeks to explain to her that she didn't do anything wrong, I wasn't punishing her and that I did adore her, but didn't want to be touched in the places she so wanted to touch me on. I think it was Des'd that expressed that familiar experience. I felt just as bad, and even questioned if I was doing this correctly, or if I was being selfish, mean, or fridge d. So that ended as quickly as it started.


I pretty much took a break from relationships and just concentrated on life in general. Hanging with the older Butch gendered that took the time to teach me the old school ethics and expectations to which I grew very fond of, and I cherish the time and labor they put into making it easier for the rest of us to just walk into too. Teaching me that It was okay to question, but I had the right to state my expectations as well, So became the entitlement of calling myself a Stone Butch, and being relaxed to state that this was my preferences, this is what I wanted, and this is who I am. Now at the present, I am a true believer in knowing that what ever makes you (the person you are comfortable as) is who you need to be true too. I am very comfortable in my own skin, I look male most of the time, the few that actually look deeper and identify me as female, empowerment to them, they took the time to notice, and I don't get all bent out of shape because the pegged me, lol.


So yes, I'm top, yes I am masculine identified, yes I am a woman, yes I still have menopausal heat flashes that are pesky. And yes. I am proud of being a Butch, and labeled Transgendered identified, and Stone. Everyone has brought very vital and interesting points to the thread and I wish I could touch on every one of them, but y'all did the definition justice and make it much easier for others who are trying to figure out who they are, or where they belong. Bravo to all of you for the honesty and dedications!


I'm just happy to be who I am, and don't intend to be what everyone else wants me to be. Life is meant to be lived, and you have to make it comfortable to live in. Be YOU!

Perhaps I danced around the subject, but then again, everyone else said what I wanted to, but better than I. So thank you.

[DapperButch]

Great, great post Blaze! Glad you took the time to write it!

[friskyfemme]

I answered this question sometime back in another forum. It generated some miscommunication. I will try not to offend others . Here goes.

'Stone' for me is who I seek for a sexual partner ('stone' butches or TGs). It's not a gender for me, but it also defines what sexual acts I do and do not find sexual stimulating. I don't enjoy performing oral sex. I don't like feeling or manipulating my partner's chest/breast. Using 'stone', helps cut through, explaining what I expect or need sexually and that I respect my partner's needs, wants, and desires.

I do, however, loved to be licked, suckled, and penetrated (fingers, dildo and cock).

I am also a 'bottom femme' but that's another thread!

[Stoney]

So am I under standing that a stone femme may be

both a top----not wishing touch similar to a stone butch

and also a bottom who is a receiver of touch, but is more comfortable in ''not '' reciprocating the same touch for whatever reason that makes up their preferential dynamic?

Is this right?


thanks for all the responses, this has been great. Very interesting .

Much peace all,

Stoney

[Converse]

Originally Posted by Stoney

So am I under standing that a stone femme may be

both a top----not wishing touch similar to a stone butch

and also a bottom who is a receiver of touch, but is more comfortable in ''not '' reciprocating the same touch for whatever reason that makes up their preferential dynamic?

Is this right?


thanks for all the responses, this has been great. Very interesting .

Much peace all,

Stoney

Borrowing from dark crystals definitions, I seem to recall some dialogue about Stonefemme as one word and Stone Femme as two separate words.

The latter referring to limits on how one was engaged with sexually aka Stone Butch (Stone Femme -a femme who does not wish to be genitally stimulated by her partner during sex) and the former being about ones preferences on how they related to their partners body (Stonefemme- a femme who is attracted to or partnered with masculine or stone butches; who does not wish to sexually touch her partners' genitals, or whose partner does not wish to have her/hys/his biological genitals touched).

I’m one of those that respond well to labelling, I appreciate the ‘short-cut’ introductions and the fact that it enables me not to have to constantly explain how I relate to the world. This of course only works if definitions are agreed to, understood and maintained- but perhaps life isn’t so easily navigated after all. Maybe I’m just getting grumpy in my old age, because while I’m ok with people changing what labels they feel akin to- that makes sense to me, it is when the meanings of the labels themselves change that I get frustrated.

HowSoonIsNow I appreciate you starting this thread and opening the dialogue-, and a thank you to you as well Stoney; your direct questions are how we find agreement and mutual understanding of meanings. While personal definitions are important, to me their value only comes once a universal (as in butch-femme community) understanding is reached.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Stoney

So am I under standing that a stone femme may be

both a top----not wishing touch similar to a stone butch

and also a bottom who is a receiver of touch, but is more comfortable in ''not '' reciprocating the same touch for whatever reason that makes up their preferential dynamic?

Is this right?


thanks for all the responses, this has been great. Very interesting .

Much peace all,

Stoney

Yes, for better or worse, that's correct. And pretty darned confusing. There are femme women who have the same sexual boundaries typical of a stone butch. They may or may not strap, but they are the 'pitcher'. Those women are stone femmes. I believe Bit once suggested that in order to differentiate we could use 'stone femme' for a femme sexual top who does not want to be penetrated, and 'stonefemme' for a femme sexual bottom who claims the ID we've been dissecting in the above thread.

Yeah, OK, I can do that. Unfortunately the terms are barely distinguishable in print and utterly indistinguishable when spoken. What is more, the word 'stone' simply does not fit the openness and receptivity embodied by a stonefemme. 'Stone' is a wonderful descriptor for any person who does not get penetrated. 'Stone' evokes impenetrability. Which is why it always made me uncomfortable as part of the term that describes me.

Another reason I don't like the term is that using it for both a stone femme sexual top as well as a stonefemme sexual bottom will eventually erase the identity of those who are in the minority, (stone femme sexual tops). If logic prevailed, which it probably won't, 'stone' would be solely the provenance of the impenetrable.

I haven't thought of anything nearly clever enough to replace this term. I wish someone else would. I would adopt it in a heartbeat as long as it doesn't imply 'fragile flower'.

[Bit]

I hear ya, Cheryl, I really hear ya... but so far, "stonefemme" is all we've got. I know it doesn't evoke softness, receptivity, or flexibility in the least, which is utterly ironic since those are terms that seem to apply to so many of us--and that seem to also describe what so many Stone Butches find attractive in us!

I would say "girl" because that fits such a huge number of stonefemmes, but then we would be leaving out all the stonefemmes who don't identify at all as girls--and it would confuse matters horribly with all the girls who are not stonefemmes!

I honestly don't know how to find a word that would fit us all without leaving anyone out and without causing more confusion than it solves.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Bit

I hear ya, Cheryl, I really hear ya... but so far, "stonefemme" is all we've got. I know it doesn't evoke softness, receptivity, or flexibility in the least, which is utterly ironic since those are terms that seem to apply to so many of us--and that seem to also describe what so many Stone Butches find attractive in us!

I would say "girl" because that fits such a huge number of stonefemmes, but then we would be leaving out all the stonefemmes who don't identify at all as girls--and it would confuse matters horribly with all the girls who are not stonefemmes!

I honestly don't know how to find a word that would fit us all without leaving anyone out and without causing more confusion than it solves.

You're right. 'Girl' has never been my ID, and I know far too many femmes who do ID as girls and who are not stonefemmes.

Where are all the clever coiners of terms?

[friskyfemme]

Originally Posted by Stoney

So am I under standing that a stone femme may be

both a top----not wishing touch similar to a stone butch

and also a bottom who is a receiver of touch, but is more comfortable in ''not '' reciprocating the same touch for whatever reason that makes up their preferential dynamic?

Is this right?


thanks for all the responses, this has been great. Very interesting .

Much peace all,

Stoney

Yep Stoney,

For me... you got it nailed!

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Stoney

So am I under standing that a stone femme may be

both a top----not wishing touch similar to a stone butch

and also a bottom who is a receiver of touch, but is more comfortable in ''not '' reciprocating the same touch for whatever reason that makes up their preferential dynamic?

Is this right?


thanks for all the responses, this has been great. Very interesting .

Much peace all,

Stoney

This is a actually a pretty good synopsis.

[ravfem]

i've struggled with my "stone femme" side for years, and still have personal issues with calling myself that. i, for whatever silly reasons, am much more comfortable calling myself a pillow princess....go figure. That term has never been a positive thing for me.... it seems to embody laziness....boy do i got issues.

Anyway, i have always been much more comfortable paired with people who are stone. my last gf was not, at all. i told her the first night we hooked up that i was a pillow princess, and after explaining what that meant, she stated she was fine with that. i tried to tell her she wouldn't be for very long, and of course she was adamant that it wouldn't be a problem. Needless to say, it eventually was. i should have known better, lesson soooo learned!

Without getting too personal, i have learned that i can be a bit more able to enjoy...giving...if it is within a Ds context. If i am told to do something, i will do it because i know it pleases them. But left to my own devices, it just isn't something i've ever been focused on. Like some others have mentioned, i too went through a stage of wondering if i was a "bad" lesbian because of my preferences.

i am gonna have to really devote some time to think about all this and process it in my head....

Thanks for the thread and all the great comments, y'all!

[Sweet_Amor_Taino]

I have a male / gentleman mentality. I do not like to be touched in a way a women is touched. It puts me a Lesbian head space... it is a bad place for me to be at !! I do not like to be feminized. !!

I believe that at some time or another a butch or femme has found her/him self doing certain sexual behaviors to please their partner but that is why a straight out conversation no matter how uncomfortable is needed ASAP.