Ask a trans person!

[Corkey]

http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/new-yo...rimination-act

[Greyson]

What I have in the title is what I read on my discharge papers from a recent hospital stay. This hospital is located in Berkeley, CA. Berkeley the alleged land of Progressives.

I was baffled when I read this. All of my I.D. says "Male." I always identify when asked or I volunteer the information as Transgender. I never refer to myself as a transsexual. Just my preference. Does not have to be yours. I also never refer to myself as "Female." If I did see myself as 100% woman, I would say, I am a woman, not "female." I let them know I am transgender because I want the authorities and others to know I am not a cisman. I always clarify, "I am legally a male."

For me it is frustrating at times. I do not think gender is restricted to only two genders and many of us are Trans with varying degrees of femininity and masculinity.

I never thought I would feel this way, but I am getting tired of trying to fit into a defined box. I am a person and I am Queer. Thanks for letting me rant.

[firegal]

Originally Posted by Greyson

What I have in the title is what I read on my discharge papers from a recent hospital stay. This hospital is located in Berkeley, CA. Berkeley the alleged land of Progressives.

I was baffled when I read this. All of my I.D. says "Male." I always identify when asked or I volunteer the information as Transgender. I never refer to myself as a transsexual. Just my preference. Does not have to be yours. I also never refer to myself as "Female." If I did see myself as 100% woman, I would say, I am a woman, not "female." I let them know I am transgender because I want the authorities and others to know I am not a cisman. I always clarify, "I am legally a male."

For me it is frustrating at times. I do not think gender is restricted to only two genders and many of us are Trans with varying degrees of femininity and masculinity.

I never thought I would feel this way, but I am getting tired of trying to fit into a defined box. I am a person and I am Queer. Thanks for letting me rant.

Grey you are my bro.....as in bromance! Love and respect you brother...and say hi to your sweet wonderfull wife!

terry

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Greyson

What I have in the title is what I read on my discharge papers from a recent hospital stay. This hospital is located in Berkeley, CA. Berkeley the alleged land of Progressives.

I was baffled when I read this. All of my I.D. says "Male." I always identify when asked or I volunteer the information as Transgender. I never refer to myself as a transsexual. Just my preference. Does not have to be yours. I also never refer to myself as "Female." If I did see myself as 100% woman, I would say, I am a woman, not "female." I let them know I am transgender because I want the authorities and others to know I am not a cisman. I always clarify, "I am legally a male."

For me it is frustrating at times. I do not think gender is restricted to only two genders and many of us are Trans with varying degrees of femininity and masculinity.

I never thought I would feel this way, but I am getting tired of trying to fit into a defined box. I am a person and I am Queer. Thanks for letting me rant.

Sorry you had that experience, Greyson, that really sucks! Hospitals here are like that as well. Really wish the medical community would get their shit together, and especially since your legal id has been amended!

Edit: one thing I don't understand at some clinics here. Some of them now do actually give you options on your records to tick what you identify as, but then on the front of your record they put the sex you were assigned at birth. For example, one clinic I went to let me check male and trans, but then on the front of my records put female. I just wonder what the point is of them giving you the option (for people who don't have their id changed) when they aren't going to use that information.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Hi always and everyone else. As fir your male, female, transgender question personally I find transgender to be an umbrella politically correct word that feels as if it is forced on us. There is a time and place to be PC however even then you. (a general you) should always take the persons whishes into account.

Again this is just personally to me and my beliefs I am offended by the term transgender and no one has a right to tell anyone I am not a male. After all I have fought all my life to be seen by others the way I see myself, as a male. That is why I use FtM and not trans at this stage of my medical transition simply because it is honest. Once I have completed the process I will identify myself as male. Period. At that point it will be me that decides who knows and when they know that I am not a cis-male. As far as the government is concerned I am already legally a male at least on my government ids and just waiting on the birth certificate decision to take the final step.

So as for your question I think the best answer is to check whichever one the client tells you. Couldn't you ask how do you id instead of what is your gender? I do think if they include transgender as an option they should also include other with a space to expand on that. In my experience more and more younger "transgender" folks identify mote along the spectrum of two spirit and the older ones like myself stick to the terms we grew up with whether that is FtM or MtF.

~Alix~

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Sorry you had that experience, Greyson, that really sucks! Hospitals here are like that as well. Really wish the medical community would get their shit together, and especially since your legal id has been amended!

Edit: one thing I don't understand at some clinics here. Some of them now do actually give you options on your records to tick what you identify as, but then on the front of your record they put the sex you were assigned at birth. For example, one clinic I went to let me check male and trans, but then on the front of my records put female. I just wonder what the point is of them giving you the option (for people who don't have their id changed) when they aren't going to use that information.

My guess would be that the birth gender is used for insurance purpose, so they match and the actually gender you use is for them on how to address you. I sure wish more places made that simple effort. Even in Oregon they had to pit the gender on your birth certificate on all official paper work. Simply bcs of insurance at least that is how my doctor explained it. However my doctor did refer to me with make pronouns through out my chart and on all correspondence that I requested from her, I was lucky that way.

[DapperButch]

Ender, I can see where they would leave Female on you chart if you are not "legally" male, as Knightsblade says, for insurance purposes. They need to bill with the legal sex. But, does it need to be on the front of the chart? I don't see why that is necessary.

They ask for your preferred pronoun/gender somewhere else in the chart because:
a) they want you to feel comfortable
b) they want to pretend like they give want you to feel comfortable so that they "look good" (for political reasons, such as HRC's health index ratings).

Originally Posted by ~KnightsBlade~

My guess would be that the birth gender is used for insurance purpose, so they match and the actually gender you use is for them on how to address you. I sure wish more places made that simple effort. Even in Oregon they had to pit the gender on your birth certificate on all official paper work. Simply bcs of insurance at least that is how my doctor explained it. However my doctor did refer to me with make pronouns through out my chart and on all correspondence that I requested from her, I was lucky that way.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Ender, I can see where they would leave Female on you chart if you are not "legally" male, as Knightsblade says, for insurance purposes. They need to bill with the legal sex. But, does it need to be on the front of the chart? I don't see why that is necessary.

They ask for your preferred pronoun/gender somewhere else in the chart because:
a) they want you to feel comfortable
b) they want to pretend like they give want you to feel comfortable so that they "look good" (for political reasons, such as HRC's health index ratings).

Not so much that its in my file at all, so much as it being on the front of the chart with my name. They take your Health Card when you first go, so they have all the info on the Health Card as well, but to me if they're going to ask at all they can at least have the courtesy to include what you wrote on the initial form. There are some clinics that do that and there are no problems. For example, Hassle Free Clinic here doesn't even require your Ontario Health Card to see a doctor and will allow trans people to put the gender they identify as regardless of legal status. And even though they have sex-segregated (deals primarily with sexual health) hours they'll allow trans guys to go to the men's hours and vice versa for trans women.

I can understand having the sex you were assigned at birth somewhere inside the file with general info about you, but at the very least they could also include male/transgender on the front since they asked for that information specifically and would actually be important for the doctor/nurse who calls you in to see before they say "Mr./Mrs. xyz" (had this experience when I went for an ultra sound just recently. The doctor herself was fine because she'd actually looked inside the file, but the nurse just kind of walked out and called for Mrs. xyz because its on the front of the file.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

I can understand having the sex you were assigned at birth somewhere inside the file with general info about you, but at the very least they could also include male/transgender on the front since they asked for that information specifically and would actually be important for the doctor/nurse who calls you in to see before they say "Mr./Mrs. xyz" (had this experience when I went for an ultra sound just recently. The doctor herself was fine because she'd actually looked inside the file, but the nurse just kind of walked out and called for Mrs. xyz because its on the front of the file.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you that your preferred name/gender be placed on the front of the chart so that the above crap does not happen.

Sorry you had to deal with that.

[Nadeest]

I do think that you should give the client the option to say how they define themselves, on that form. Why don't you just ask them, then , when going to the menu to set it down, leave it blank, and make a note elsewhere on the form, as to what your clients defines themselves as?

You might have to go to the appropriate authorities to get this change into the system, but I submit that it is worth it. For example, if someone is identifying as 'genderqueer', I really don't think that it is a good way to build trust between you two, by misidentifying them.

Thank you very much, though, for asking this question.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Ok I have a question or two. Bear with me if I word it wrong.
It has been some years now since I have had to deal with the medical profession in a state where sexuality nevermind being FtM is not protected from discrimination. Well that is what I am facing here in Georgia.

So my question is how would you approach a new doctor knowing this and needing to make sure you find one un a timely manner since I only have enough T to last me a couple of months. In Oregon my gp handled my T and all the follow up for being on it. Also will I have to get another therapist letter even though I have been on T for a year with both a letter and signed informed consent.

If I rambled to much and you're not sure what I am asking please just let me know. Thanks for reading my question.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by ~KnightsBlade~

Ok I have a question or two. Bear with me if I word it wrong.
It has been some years now since I have had to deal with the medical profession in a state where sexuality nevermind being FtM is not protected from discrimination. Well that is what I am facing here in Georgia.

So my question is how would you approach a new doctor knowing this and needing to make sure you find one un a timely manner since I only have enough T to last me a couple of months. In Oregon my gp handled my T and all the follow up for being on it. Also will I have to get another therapist letter even though I have been on T for a year with both a letter and signed informed consent.

If I rambled to much and you're not sure what I am asking please just let me know. Thanks for reading my question.

There are a few ways you could go about finding a new doctor. There are some resources you could use online. FTM International might be a good place to start for you if you haven't already found a trans community near you that could help you out.

http://www.ftmi.org/3meetings.htm

In the above section they list groups that meet in Georgia, US so you could always attend a meeting and ask around there. I think FMI also have an online group that you can join and ask around for doctor recommendations in your area.

There are also active forums like http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php
and http://forum.lauras-playground.com/forums/index.php that have active trans guy/FTM forums where you can ask around. A lot of the membership there are pretty US-based so you could find some good doctor recommendations there if you open up a thread and ask, or at the very least be given some resources for your state.

[DapperButch]

Ender gave you a lot of good information. You shouldn't need another letter if you are already on T. I would suspect whatever PCP you get will keep writing the scripts. You could contact one of the GA therapists at www.wpath.org and they should be able to refer you to an Endo n ear you that works with trans people. Another idea is to contact an LGBT organization in your area or PFLAG. I really dont think you will have a hard time with your PCP. When you get the list of PCPs for yout insurance, contact each one of them and ask i f that doc will keep your script going. Pick that person to be your new PCP

[Nadeest]

Try: http://www.drbecky.com/therapists.html . Once you find a nearby therapist, on that list, contact them and ask for a recommendation for a doctor that will likely be willing to care for you. Hopefully, this will help.

[deb0670]

Hi, i know i do not frequent this forum, however, our youngest daughter just came out to us as an FTM. Thankfully, Ethan has been an FTM for many years already and has been able to talk with our son about his transition some.. but as his mom.. i want to be as supportive as possible. I had my daughter for 17 years.. changing the mindset and pronouns is a little hard for me. I am seeing our son feel better and he says he is more comfortable in his own skin since Ethan and i have accepted him. I guess the reason why i am writing this is.. even though i love our son no matter what.. i am having a hard time wrapping my head around what to say or help him say anything to my family about it. I just recently came out to my mom and told her the truth about Ethan and me.. because my then daughter wanted to come out to my mom about her and her girlfriend, and i was not going to just throw her under the bus. It took a lot for my mom to accept everything, and with great effort.... now.. she has to face that she only has one granddaughter and two grandsons... instead of the other way around. I do not know how the rest of my family is going to handle it. Also.. Even though i truly love my son, and will support him no matter what..
i am going to miss my daughter. Is this wrong?
Sorry for the babbling..

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by deb0670

i am going to miss my daughter. Is this wrong?

I'm not trans and this is the 'ask a trans person' thread but I feel strongly about this, so hopefully no one will mind my interjection too much.

deb, you won't miss your daughter. You'll miss the social expectations that come with having a daughter as well as the hopes and dreams you designed for your child at birth and through the formative years. And that will take some time to shed. But you get to form new hopes and dreams now! Ones based on your child's desires and hopes and those are best ones, yes?

Your child is your child. Period. That PERSON doesn't change but the social expectations will. Truth be told, you always had two sons. One just dressed in drag for 17 years.

You're a darling person, deb, and the best advice I can give as someone who has no right (neither a parent nor trans) to give advice on this topic, is to do what you and Ethan are already doing. Be open-minded with your son. Kids are resilient, especially when they have a good support system. Sit down with him and maybe make a ritual of switching things over.....like putting out new family photos or reworking the family album. I'd journal for yourself and ask your son if he'd like to do that on his own too. He'd be able to look back and see that X was hard but he made it through so Y and Z won't be so bad either. Don't hide your personal process from him but don't let him feel guilty about it either. None of that "I'm losing a daughter" stuff. You're gaining a child who is more self-confident, happier and more in control of their life. That's the type of kid that can make it through anything life throws at him.

Congrats!

[DapperButch]

deb,

I have a couple of thoughts.

First of all, it is normal to have loss about losing a daughter. Yes, your child is still the same person, but if indeed your child is FTM, there is loss around what you expected for their life (the social things Gemme mentioned). In my work with adolescents and their parents, I find that this is where parents feel guilt. They feel guilty for feeling loss. Well, guess what? It IS a loss. Don't feel like you aren't accepting your child's gender identity just because you are grieving who you thought them to be. It is normal. Just like it is for the spouse of an adult who is changing their sex.


I think that the MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do for your child is to find a therapist that specializes in gender issues. As you know, often masculinity can get conflated with males (we need to look no further than our female butches and the frustration they face with this). It is important that your child separate out gender expression (masculinity) from gender/sex (male).

As a gender therapist, I always make sure with every client that they put this into perspective (adults as well as adolescents). My thought is that with having a FTM in the home, your child would have even more of a hard time seeing how a masculinity does not = male. Your child's example (in their young brain) is that a female changes gender if they are masculine.

Now, one of the positives of Ethan being in your child's life is that he can talk with your child about gender expression (masculinity) versus gender/sex (male) in a way that other paretns cannot, but I still think there are discussions that can be had with a therapist that one can't have with their parent. Additionally, there could be issues around your child having a desire to connect with Ethan more, to have a "sameness" that masculine individuals desire to have with the masculine parent, so that can be impacting your child's desire/thinking that they are male, also.

Please don't hear the above as me questioning your child's gender identity. Lord knows I would be the last person to do this, but I believe that due diligence is important with all trans individuals, but again, I believe that your child is in a special situation (one, on the whole, I think they are lucky to have - a FTM in their household).

Check out www.wpath.org and click on the provider tab to find a qualified gender therapist (and the list/link that Nadeest provided). I think that most states are represented. Contact that person. Even if they are too far away or don't take your child's insurance, ask them for the name of someone who is closer to you and might. Even if that person doesn't take your child's insurance, THEY might know someone who does. Even if you are told that so and so therapist only sees adults, call them anyway. Your child is 17, so they may make an exception (hell, that is how I started treating a 15 year old).

I would suggest doing this sooner, rather than later. If indeed your child does want to transition (with hormones and legal name change), it would start them off great if they could graduate from high school (I am assuming they are in high school), with the proper name/birth certificate (if your state allows birth certificate changes). It would make their entrance into adulthood as seamless as possible.

I also want to tell you that your child is very lucky to have a mom like you. They are fortunate that you are willing to accept whoever they feel themselves to be.

[deb0670]

Hi Gemme,
Thank you so much for all your advice and your friendship.
I have to admit, the person is the same, yes.. however, the mother/daughter things we used to do together, such as dress shopping, trying different make up, etc.. u will not have anymore.
Yes, I am accepting my son and am excited about helping him with his new journey and getting to know him better..

In my son's journey to find himself, he went through many experiences as a girl and young lady, and enjoyed them.. such as going shopping with my daughter in law and i for her Homecoming dress, and getting all dolled up and stuff..
Now... my son does not wish for me to talk about those girlie things anymore around him cause it helps his dysphoria.
So, yes.. i do absolutely love and support our son. .
There is and will be a sense of loss of my daughter.
Will I bring it up and make my son feel guilty? He'll no.
I do truly appreciate you and your kind words and help and friendship.

Originally Posted by Gemme

I'm not trans and this is the 'ask a trans person' thread but I feel strongly about this, so hopefully no one will mind my interjection too much.

deb, you won't miss your daughter. You'll miss the social expectations that come with having a daughter as well as the hopes and dreams you designed for your child at birth and through the formative years. And that will take some time to shed. But you get to form new hopes and dreams now! Ones based on your child's desires and hopes and those are best ones, yes?

Your child is your child. Period. That PERSON doesn't change but the social expectations will. Truth be told, you always had two sons. One just dressed in drag for 17 years.

You're a darling person, deb, and the best advice I can give as someone who has no right (neither a parent nor trans) to give advice on this topic, is to do what you and Ethan are already doing. Be open-minded with your son. Kids are resilient, especially when they have a good support system. Sit down with him and maybe make a ritual of switching things over.....like putting out new family photos or reworking the family album. I'd journal for yourself and ask your son if he'd like to do that on his own too. He'd be able to look back and see that X was hard but he made it through so Y and Z won't be so bad either. Don't hide your personal process from him but don't let him feel guilty about it either. None of that "I'm losing a daughter" stuff. You're gaining a child who is more self-confident, happier and more in control of their life. That's the type of kid that can make it through anything life throws at him.

Congrats!

[deb0670]

Dapper,
I thank God for You and for sharing this with me.
Thank You for understanding.
I will be looking for a therapist for our son Monday.

I have mentioned to him many times before about being butch, etc.. and even a gender to him, and every time he has been adamant that neither is the case.
I questioned him about wanting to be more like Dad (our son calls Ethan Dad), and just as adamantly he assured me that is not the case.
For awhile he was wavering back and forth, but he said it was mainly be he was scared of what Ethan and me would say. Our son said," I have never felt comfortable as a girl in a boy/girl relationship, nor a girl/girl relationship, and i am tired of pretending to be."

For years, he would dress and be androgynous. . But still did not feel right.

Ethan has been talking with our son a lot more now that our son has made up his mind and heart on who he is.

So.. i guess the best thing to do is find a therapist for him, and possibly for me to help any way I can.

Oh and, please know, I understand and believe You about
You not questioning my son's gender..
I truly appreciate You and Your help.

Originally Posted by DapperButch

deb,

I have a couple of thoughts.

First of all, it is normal to have loss about losing a daughter. Yes, your child is still the same person, but if indeed your child is FTM, there is loss around what you expected for their life (the social things Gemme mentioned). In my work with adolescents and their parents, I find that this is where parents feel guilt. They feel guilty for feeling loss. Well, guess what? It IS a loss. Don't feel like you aren't accepting your child's gender identity just because you are grieving who you thought them to be. It is normal. Just like it is for the spouse of an adult who is changing their sex.


I think that the MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do for your child is to find a therapist that specializes in gender issues. As you know, often masculinity can get conflated with males (we need to look no further than our female butches and the frustration they face with this). It is important that your child separate out gender expression (masculinity) from gender/sex (male).

As a gender therapist, I always make sure with every client that they put this into perspective (adults as well as adolescents). My thought is that with having a FTM in the home, your child would have even more of a hard time seeing how a masculinity does not = male. Your child's example (in their young brain) is that a female changes gender if they are masculine.

Now, one of the positives of Ethan being in your child's life is that he can talk with your child about gender expression (masculinity) versus gender/sex (male) in a way that other paretns cannot, but I still think there are discussions that can be had with a therapist that one can't have with their parent. Additionally, there could be issues around your child having a desire to connect with Ethan more, to have a "sameness" that masculine individuals desire to have with the masculine parent, so that can be impacting your child's desire/thinking that they are male, also.

Please don't hear the above as me questioning your child's gender identity. Lord knows I would be the last person to do this, but I believe that due diligence is important with all trans individuals, but again, I believe that your child is in a special situation (one, on the whole, I think they are lucky to have - a FTM in their household).

Check out www.wpath.org and click on the provider tab to find a qualified gender therapist (and the list/link that Nadeest provided). I think that most states are represented. Contact that person. Even if they are too far away or don't take your child's insurance, ask them for the name of someone who is closer to you and might. Even if that person doesn't take your child's insurance, THEY might know someone who does. Even if you are told that so and so therapist only sees adults, call them anyway. Your child is 17, so they may make an exception (hell, that is how I started treating a 15 year old).

I would suggest doing this sooner, rather than later. If indeed your child does want to transition (with hormones and legal name change), it would start them off great if they could graduate from high school (I am assuming they are in high school), with the proper name/birth certificate (if your state allows birth certificate changes). It would make their entrance into adulthood as seamless as possible.

I also want to tell you that your child is very lucky to have a mom like you. They are fortunate that you are willing to accept whoever they feel themselves to be.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by deb0670

Dapper,
I thank God for You and for sharing this with me.
Thank You for understanding.
I will be looking for a therapist for our son Monday.

I have mentioned to him many times before about being butch, etc.. and even a gender to him, and every time he has been adamant that neither is the case.
I questioned him about wanting to be more like Dad (our son calls Ethan Dad), and just as adamantly he assured me that is not the case.
For awhile he was wavering back and forth, but he said it was mainly be he was scared of what Ethan and me would say. Our son said," I have never felt comfortable as a girl in a boy/girl relationship, nor a girl/girl relationship, and i am tired of pretending to be."

For years, he would dress and be androgynous. . But still did not feel right.

Ethan has been talking with our son a lot more now that our son has made up his mind and heart on who he is.

So.. i guess the best thing to do is find a therapist for him, and possibly for me to help any way I can.

Oh and, please know, I understand and believe You about
You not questioning my son's gender..
I truly appreciate You and Your help.

deb,

No problem, I am glad it was helpful. I admit that I get very nervous and cautious about young FTMs going on Testosterone. Their voice can drop like a rock after the first couple of shots. You cannot foretell how quickly it will drop or how low it will drop. It doesn't matter if the person starts with a deep voice to begin with or how deep their male relative's voices are. There is no correlation. As you probably know, voice changes are not reversible.

I feel much less anxious about a trans girl going on estrogen and testosterone blockers, she can change her mind and the T will flow back into her body like a demon. People aren't aware of how powerful of a hormone testosterone is and although I support "informed consent" where therapy is NOT a requirement, I admit that with adolescents/very young adults, it makes me nervous. There IS such a thing as transsexual regret. It does happen and it is very hard for the female bodied people who now have a male voice return to a female life. It can be very hard and painful. Hell, top surgery is reversible.

Anyway...the reason I responded to your post (sorry for the ramble) is if you are comfortable, PM me your city and I can ask on the WPATH listserve for a therapist in your area. Sorry I didn't think of that sooner.