Negotiating Silence

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I read it as MOST people who use big ole edumacational words are fine. Fabulous even. There are a select few that will wield these words as a weapon and use them to talk *down* to somebody else. I haven't seen it happen here. So I don't really think it was meant as a blanket statement, but more of a specific one.

There is a big difference between using an extensive vocabulary and being condescending. Frankly, I don't even bother with those types of posts because I can tell where it's coming from and I refuse to feed it power.

Is that silencing me? Perhaps. But at the same time it saves me the aggravation of being further annoyed by posts that make ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE WHATSOEVER and riddled with big, fancy schmancy words with complex grammatical sentences.

Someone earlier said it right - just because you SOUND smart, doesn't necessarily mean you are.

Simple is always best.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by T D

Silencing = Using someones personal stories, shares as ammunition to be used as a means of belittling and thereby silencing them. Using gossip, falsehoods, negativity to describe someone and put a negative spin on their character.

TD, these two sentences resonated so deeply with me right now that it isnt funny.

I also want to add that a person who does this is more often than not speaking from a place of self-negativity. To put energy into trying to hurt/damage/inflict pain on another person by "destroying" their reputation or airing their dirty laundry that was told to them in the privacy of a friendship is a gross display of the WORST kind of ethical lacking in a human being.

I have also always been of the opinion that it says MUCH more about the person airing the laundry or "destroying the reputation" than it does about the person that its being done to.

It, unfortunately, still hurts the person its being done to, no matter how sad/angry/nasty the person who is doing it appears to be to others.

I have much MUCH more to say here but I'll leave it for now.

[Words]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

O. M. G. you just made me laugh. Not at you but with you because I can relate.

See your avatar on the left side? Underneath it the dot, the scales and the red alert triangle? Click on the scales and rep away. IF that is what you are asking.

Thanks, but I get that part, I just can't make sense of the system as a whole. How does one accumulate rep 'power'? Do some folks have more rep power than others? Is your rep worth more than my rep (God forbid that anyone should give better rep than me) And what about the negative and neutral rep that's mentioned in the FAQ. Where is it? Why don't I see it? I HAVE TO KNOW!!! LOL, because yes, at the end of the day, it IS all about me. IT IS!!!

[little man]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Great post Bit! Yes its true, how we react to things is completely because of our life experiences. We all need to remember that.

And to women who see themselves as bathroom monitors.......
Cynthia uses the Men's room, apparently Men don't look at each other in the bathroom like women do.

they certainly don't. which makes life so much easier.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Words

Thanks, but I get that part, I just can't make sense of the system as a whole. How does one accumulate rep 'power'? Do some folks have more rep power than others? Is your rep worth more than my rep (God forbid that anyone should give better rep than me) And what about the negative and neutral rep that's mentioned in the FAQ. Where is it? Why don't I see it? I HAVE TO KNOW!!! LOL, because yes, at the end of the day, it IS all about me. IT IS!!!

I get the sense that the more rep you give and get the stronger you rep power. I know that vbulletin comes with the negative and neutral rep features, but they are not implemented here. We've all seen what a disaster THAT can be. NeedToKnowitis is contagious. Knock it off!

[Cyclopea]

I tend to see a post as either constructive, deconstructive, or both.
If I start to perceive a post- or poster- as being purely deconstructive I gloss over their posts or completely ignore them.

To me, a deconstuctive poster seldom adds to a conversation and lends a chilling effect to potential contributors who don't have the time or inclination to respond to the deconstruction of their post, and the need to reconstruct it over and over again until it is acceptable or understood by the deconstructer.

Instead of saying to themselves "OK, parts of the language in this post are imprecise or problematic, but I get the jist of the writer's intentions", a deconstructer will pick apart the post, bit by bit, line by line, often with copious usage of the multiquote feature, and demand- or feel entitled to- a reconstruction by the original poster. A deconstructer does not create their own post or offer anything constructive to a conversation. They are more like critics who dismantle the creations of others without themselves creating anything. This urge to deconstruction seems especially pervasive in academia, and sometimes in online forums.

I feel sorry for people who are unable to contribute anything but deconstruction to a conversation, but that doesn't make me obligated to respond to them or even read them.

Another silencing tactic on internet forums is the "drive-by downer" post, which is the forum equivalent of flashing the middle finger at another driver in traffic. An example would be posting something like "". Some posters seem to especially enjoy stepping into highly charged and important conversations to dump their snippy little bad vibe. This is another type of unconstructive (and lazy) type of posting that can be silencing in the same way that saying "go fuck yourself" can put a chill on a conversation.

Being silenced does not require consent. Screaming over someone whenever they attempt to speak, for example will effectively silence a speaker regardless of their consent.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMdlcnK_MI4"]YouTube- Unruly Republicans Disrupt Health Care Debate[/ame]

Another way to accomplish this on an internet forum in a much more passive-aggressive way is to "spam" a thread with so many off-topic posts that the real conversation is buried or lost in the deluge.

One could even bump a bunch of other threads in order to remove a disliked conversation off the front page, or off the recent posts list in an attempt to bury it.

Women have historically been silenced by being called "too angry", "victims", "hysterical", "shrill", "bitchy", and all the other ways in which behaviors which are acceptable and respected from males are marginalized when exhibited by females.

I'm sure there are a million more ways to silence people.

What about reporting posts that the reader does not like or agree with?
If one group of people never reports posts, and another group frquently does, which group will be more silenced through moderation?

The principle that people cannot be silenced without their consent is not accurate in my understanding of group dynamics and human history (such as it is).

What are the solutions? If you can figure that out it would transform humanity. The ones that come to mind are war and separatism.

[Apocalipstic]

Great post Cyclopea!

It made me think of an example where I felt silenced, but decided to rise above and post anyway.

On another website someone started a very emotionally charged thread about parental abuse of a specific kind.

Someone came in and said parents do the best they can and people needed to just get over it and stop whining.

Being a survivor myself, I immediately felt like maybe I needed to not speak out, maybe I needed to suck all my pain down and just deal. Maybe I deserved the abuse? maybe I am a whiner? Then, after I talked myself off the ledge, I decided that it is important for us to speak out because if it helps just one person to not feel so alone, it's worth putting myself out there....not to mention how much it helps to get things out.

So I felt silenced, but I spoke my truth anyway.

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

So I felt silenced, but I spoke my truth anyway.

That RIGHT there is so important I wanted to blow it up to 7 Arial Black and make it red.

I resisted that urge.

But! That's what needs to happen.

If you (generic) feel silenced by me (specific), speak up anyway. Trust me when I say others will agree with you and support you.

Just trying to stay in the Me-Me zone!

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Ok. Now I'd like to add something else to the mix.

What about Silencing through gossip? Shunning. Labeling of a person as a slut, a stalker, a gold digger or obsessed?

This is something we can all combat. Sending a pm to another member devaluing another member? It has been my experience that nobody ever goes to the person being shredded and *asks* before perpetuationg the bullshit.

Apretty spoke of a true imbalance of power. I think there is an imbalance of power in these kinds of situations. The most painful thing for me has been seeing a person in authority (or perceived authority) rip a member in public. For speaking a truth. For having a dissenting opinion. It sets an ugly stage.

Gossip is definitely silencing, I think, because it takes the core of our justice system away. Innocent until proven guilty. It's like when you hear a song and then you hear another version of that same song. A study done long ago (that I have no way of digging up now so you all are just going to have to believe me in that it was done and I read up on it) came to the conclusion in this situation (or one mirroring the concept) that you would prefer the first version of the song you heard. I have noticed with myself that this is true with movies as well. My point? We tend to believe what we hear/see/learn first. Prime example? Marketing and advertising.

So, if I say something about person X to person Y, then person X is going to tend to believe me over person Y. Of course, there are variations. If persons X and Y had been best friends for 12 years previously, then neither would probably believe me. However, here, many of us are isolated from the reality of others. What we read and how we feel when we read it are our truths.

Bit mentioned something along that line that I agree with.

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I get the sense that the more rep you give and get the stronger you rep power. I know that vbulletin comes with the negative and neutral rep features, but they are not implemented here. We've all seen what a disaster THAT can be. NeedToKnowitis is contagious. Knock it off!

I find seeing someone being told to knock it off silencing.

KIDDING!!!

I have nothing but for you, missy miss.

I think you are correct in how the rep system works, from what I've noticed, as well as NeedtoKnowititis.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

What about freedom of speech? Don't we have a right to say what we feel, even if it offends others? Without the fear of being negatively repped, etc?

I honestly think that freedom of speech no longer exists, which therefore means people in this world are being silenced

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

What about freedom of speech? Don't we have a right to say what we feel, even if it offends others? Without the fear of being negatively repped, etc?

I honestly think that freedom of speech no longer exists, which therefore means people in this world are being silenced

Problem is, now quoting my wife's father, "Your rights end at the beginning of my nose". Just as yelling fire in a crowded theater may be your right, however if someone gets killed in the stampede, (your) guilt of manslaughter will be justified.
Our rights of speech must be tempered with good judgement of when and how to say something. That is imperative, in my judgement.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Problem is, now quoting my wife's father, "Your rights end at the beginning of my nose". Just as yelling fire in a crowded theater may be your right, however if someone gets killed in the stampede, (your) guilt of manslaughter will be justified.
Our rights of speech must be tempered with good judgement of when and how to say something. That is imperative, in my judgement.

That is still being silenced, which is my whole point, don't tell someone they can or can't say or do as they please and then come around with all this justifications and stipulations. Justifications and stipulations do not set well with me by any means.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

That is still being silenced, which is my whole point, don't tell someone they can or can't say or do as they please and then come around with all this justifications and stipulations. Justifications and stipulations do not set well with me by any means.

No one that I'm aware of has said any such thing. Your right to free speech is just as important as another's, not more important. I think tone is everything, and I have been known to be blunt, still am, my tone is interpreted by every one differently. My words are the same for everyone, how you the listener take them is strictly up to your ears. Saying something in a generally positive way, is much different then saying it in a confrontational way, and that my friend is the difference.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

What about freedom of speech? Don't we have a right to say what we feel, even if it offends others? Without the fear of being negatively repped, etc?

I honestly think that freedom of speech no longer exists, which therefore means people in this world are being silenced

Doesn't freedom of speech go both ways? I mean I hear people say they want freedom of speech, but then they want the buck to stop there. Just as anyone has the *freedom* to say hurtful, racist, misogynistic or prejudice things, others have the *freedom* to speak up about it.

*Freedom* does not = A free pass.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Doesn't freedom of speech go both ways? I mean I hear people say they want freedom of speech, but then they want the buck to stop there. Just as anyone has the *freedom* to say hurtful, racist, misogynistic or prejudice things, others have the *freedom* to speak up about it.

*Freedom* does not = A free pass.

not asking for a free pass, just the fact that a person should be able to say or do what they want without the fear of being banned, repped negatively, etc.

But what I do have a problem with is someone trying to silence me by say rules, etc.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

not asking for a free pass, just the fact that a person should be able to say or do what they want without the fear of being banned, repped negatively, etc.

But what I do have a problem with is someone trying to silence me by say rules, etc.

What about other peoples freedom of speech though? Those negative reps and bans encompass that freedom too. What you are describing sounds more like anarchy than freedom of speech.

Please note, I am not trying to silence you. I'm just discussing your post. If we need to agree to disagree that is okay by me. I love Eleanor Roosevelt's quote "Never ask of others what you yourself are not willing to give".

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Hmmm you know you might be right anarchy might be a better choice of words and to what I seek.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

But what I do have a problem with is someone trying to silence me by say rules, etc.

Rules are not in place to silence anyone. They are in place so that many types of people can work, play, or 'be' together in such a way that everyone is treated as equally and fairly as possible.

A world without rules and boundaries of some sort is a world of chaos and indulgent privilege for those who can intimidate or buy others.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Rules are not in place to silence anyone. They are in place so that many types of people can work, play, or 'be' together in such a way that everyone is treated as equally and fairly as possible.

A world without rules and boundaries of some sort is a world of chaos and indulgent privilege for those who can intimidate or buy others.

which is basically an anarchy which is null of any goverment or ruler, etc!!!

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

which is basically an anarchy which is null of any goverment or ruler, etc!!!

I am aware of what anarchy entails, but thank you for elaborating.

When you find this utopia for yourself, send a postcard, yes?

I can't speak for others, but I'll be here with my rules and boundaries and whatnot, watching the lights on the tree.