Cynthia Nixon says she's gay by 'choice.' Is it really a choice?

[Toughy]

I'm wondering if there is something in the TOS about this kind of nastiness directed at bisexuals....bisexual phobia should not be acceptable on this website.

Replace 'bisexual' with ohhhh say 'black' or 'mexican' or __________ and shit would hit the fan.

[Sparx1_1]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Maybe it was actually a non sequitur, but I was crediting her post for following a cohesive train of thought.

Best case scenario she said that bisexuals are the reason that heterosexuals think of us all as freaks. BEST case scenario.

The reality is that for some heterosexuals that is a very correct assessment of how they think and feel. We are all affected by our experiences and unfortunately vlasta has had an incredibly negative experience. Even more unfortunate is that there are people in our community who have the same opinions yet have never had a bad experience.
All vlasta has done is been honest about how her experiences have affected her. Rage filled responses will only guarantee that her opinion and the opinions of people with similar ideas will never change.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Sparx1_1

Rage filled responses will only guarantee that her opinion and the opinions of people with similar ideas will never change.

You've got an interesting definition of rage.

Originally Posted by Semantics

I also want to say that you weren't infected with a disease because your partner was bisexual, you were exposed because your partner was unfaithful and a cheater. Despite what many believe, exclusively lesbian women contract and transmit STD's among themselves all the time.

I don't judge you. I believe that you're entitled to your opinion, I just disagree with it because I believe it harms the bisexuals in our community.

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

We've all been hurt it still DOES NOT give us the right to make broad generalizations about a group of people..

Originally Posted by Softhearted

Since when living a double life is linked to being bisexual?!??????

Originally Posted by betenoire

Wow. You know, I always thought that things like "the religious right" and "conservatism" and "general fear mongering hogwash" was the reason that we don't have equal rights in many countries.

I mean, come on. BISEXUALS are the reason you don't have equal rights? Really?

Originally Posted by betenoire

It's clear that you don't think it's okay to be bisexual, and that you think there is a positive correlation between bisexuality and living a dishonest double life.

I am not the exception to the rule. Your ex is not the rule. There just IS no rule.

Just like there is no "rule" to lesbians or heterosexuals.

Originally Posted by betenoire

Best case scenario she said that bisexuals are the reason that heterosexuals think of us all as freaks. BEST case scenario.

Originally Posted by Toughy

I'm wondering if there is something in the TOS about this kind of nastiness directed at bisexuals....bisexual phobia should not be acceptable on this website.

Replace 'bisexual' with ohhhh say 'black' or 'mexican' or __________ and shit would hit the fan.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Sparx1_1

The reality is that for some heterosexuals that is a very correct assessment of how they think and feel. We are all affected by our experiences and unfortunately vlasta has had an incredibly negative experience. Even more unfortunate is that there are people in our community who have the same opinions yet have never had a bad experience.
All vlasta has done is been honest about how her experiences have affected her. Rage filled responses will only guarantee that her opinion and the opinions of people with similar ideas will never change.

I tend to agree with the principles here. Sometimes there is a difference between what is said and what is heard. And, focusing on a line or two from the context of what was said can dramatically alter the perception of what was meant.

Within the context of what was said, I heard someone expressing their displeasure at having been deceived by someone they felt wasnt upfront and honest with them, and someone who betrayed their trust. And, this bothered them.

[Martina]

I agree with Toughy. i know people have their own biases, but this is not the place to express them. It's not. It's a public forum.

Bisexual people are welcome here. They do not need to read that others think they are unfaithful or carriers of disease or whatever.

Even the "i would never date a bisexual" thing is questionable if you think about it. i remember when people were taken to task about that re trans issues.

i mean we want who we want, we have the life experiences we have, etc.

But expressing that stuff here is potentially alienating and harmful to others. Do it in PM's. This is not a therapy group. People come here for fun or to relax as well as for other reasons. They do not come here to be reminded that they are hated by others. We are a community. If you have hateful feelings and thoughts, keep them to yourself.

In the past i told some of my stories about dating/befriending some transmen. They were not positive. I got schooled about how sharing those stories in the way i did was harmful to others. i learned. i appreciate the folks who took the time out to explain it to me.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Sparx1_1

The reality is that for some heterosexuals that is a very correct assessment of how they think and feel. We are all affected by our experiences and unfortunately vlasta has had an incredibly negative experience. Even more unfortunate is that there are people in our community who have the same opinions yet have never had a bad experience.
All vlasta has done is been honest about how her experiences have affected her. Rage filled responses will only guarantee that her opinion and the opinions of people with similar ideas will never change.

I'd like to clarify that not one time that I have posted about this particular subject have *I* personally been "rage filled" it feels insulting to me that when we (general) have a difference with opinion with something that is OBVIOUSLY harmful to members of this community (what Vlasta said is, was, incorrect and harmful)

Having a different opinion and not agreeing with ugly statements regardless of someones own personal experience is not *RAGE* it's standing up and saying "hey, you don't get to insult our bisexual members here just because someone you were with cheated on you, molested you kid, and gave you a disease"


I find it ridiculous and insulting to be accused of being *rage filled* because one stands up for the rights of others to be here and not have to be insulted....



I tell ya what does piss me off, when someone takes it upon themselves to *assume* that because I am standing up for others that I am some angry pissed off woman.

[adorable]

I know for sure that when I was 13 my mother walked into my room and accused me of being a dyke because I had wallpapered my room with Madonna posters. I also know that I took it all down in horror. It was said with such distaste and hate that no way did I want to be associated with that “dyke” thing. That was a choice I made.

I also know that I was accused of being bisexual by people here in my real time community. I know that it was said with the same distaste and hate. I know in an effort to fit in with the gay crowd I had to distance myself from my past of being with men. The only thing worse than being a man, it seemed, was to sleep with them. My distancing was a choice, due to being young and wanting to belong.

I’m no longer young, nor do I give a shit if I belong. I make different choices today.

We clearly were (or are) seen as traitors and get no stars. I have two beautiful girls. I loved a man enough at some point to make those babies. I can say today that I will partner with men and it’s just fine if people try to take my birthday away for it. Many of us made choices based on limited knowledge, youth, inexperience or all those things. We all walk around making choices every day of our lives. Most of us too, no matter how we ID, have been accused by society in general of being wild sex crazed maniacs hanging from chandeliers who can’t control ourselves and freaks set out to destroy innocent children.

I have said this before, and (surprise) I’m saying it again, it is NOT OKAY for ANY group to hate another group, but it’s especially disturbing when a minority group hates on another minority group. That is exactly what those in the larger society who hate us WANT US TO DO. It is much easier to divide us into small manageable factions and take away the “other” other’s rights first. Divide and conquer.

It’s so nonsensical, that it would seem like it would go without saying.
Evidently, not.

Let me say to everyone reading this that what has been said here was hateful, bigoted, stereotypical, and untrue. Bisexuality doesn’t make a person promiscuous. Bisexual people are not dirty lepers running around transmitting diseases. Bisexuals are not living a double life. They are not trying to “have their cake and eat it too.” Bisexuality doesn’t cause people to molest children. Being bisexual doesn’t mean that you are not a feminist or are a sellout. Nor does it mean you bring sperm home. Heterosexuals are not stereotyping us based on what bisexuals do or don’t do.

Those who are against the gay community, are against us ALL - across the board. THEY don’t give a shit what we call ourselves or how we identify. We, as a collective minority, need to STOP discriminating against members in our own community. It’s a matter of life and death. Even under the guise of “my experience,” clear bisexual stereotypes must be called out. I’m calling it out.
These exact stereotypes are perpetrated against us ALL every single day in our society. They justify our collective rights being taken away. This includes ALL OF US – you, me, us and them. Stereotypes that justify everything from discrimination to hate crimes.

Everyone should be outraged whenever hate or intolerance is directed at any minority group. It is silence that allows this bullshit and stereotyping to continue.

(To be fair I did manage to stay out of this thread for several pages...in case any ribbons are being handed out.)

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by adorable

Being bisexual doesn’t mean that you are not a feminist or are a sellout.

I'm going to take that one step further and say that shaming bisexual women is anti-feminist. It's not okay to try and police my body.

[Corkey]

I don't care if someone is Bi, Str8, Queer, Trans, Butch or Femme. What I care about is their integrity, their humor, their humanism. We are All Human beings, degrading anyone for their choice of whom they sleep with is offensive. Broad brushing Humans into boxes and defaming them because of ONE persons actions is offensive. If one cannot separate one person from a group then it is offensive. I do not understand why this is hard to get.
Rage is something that is not in this discussion, it is however something that fuels hate, as well as ignorance.
My .02

[Medusa]

All -


Wanted to come in here for a minute and address the direction that the conversation has taken and hopefully move past the ugly stuff so we can get back to talking about Cynthia Nixon and her clumsy-ass comments.

First off, not only do we have a clause in the TOS about hate speech but I've also talked about this being a welcoming community on every level. Just to be clear, this community is sexuality-positive meaning that whatever your sexuality is, it's perfect and absolutely correct just the way it is.

This means we are bi-positive, poly-positive, fetish positive, kink positive, asexual positive, vanilla positive, Butch on Butch positive, Trans on Trans positive, Femme on Femme positive, Mommy/boy positive, Daddy/girl positive, Top positive, bottom positive, simple sex positive, penetration positive, frottage positive, dolphin vibrator positive, dildoes-that-look-like-real-dicks positive, oral positive, ass positive, vagina positive, Butchcock positive, Transcock positive, Transwoman vagina or cock positive, hairy pussy positive, shaved pussy positive, monogamy positive, and any other kind of sexuality or sexual appetite positive that you can think of. It's ALL good.

Here's the deal, however you get off or partner or fuck is CORRECT!

However the person next to you gets off or partners or fucks is CORRECT, even if it's different from how you do it!

I don't think anyone here gets to have an opinion on how or who I fuck unless they are paying my bills, also fucking me, or living in my house. That goes for everyone here.

As a side note to Vlasta: I know you are a good person Vlasta and it looks like you have been through a lot in your life that is incredibly painful. I get that your experiences have jarred you and given you a historical context that is very negative. I do hope you will consider that what you have been through was done to you by individual people, not by how they fuck and that even if they had been straight or gay that it probably wouldn't have changed things if they were dishonest or a person who didn't think about how what they did would hurt you. That comes in every form and in every sexuality.
On this website, we have a lot of people of all different sexualities. I want you to be a part of what makes this website welcoming, not what might make someone think they weren't welcome here.

I do hope we can get the conversation back on track.

Much love,
Dusa

[WickedFemme]

I have been so busy with work and life that I missed all this. For me, being gay isn't and wasn't a choice. I feel offended by Cynthia's statement because she is in the spotlight of the media and the Right Wing Anti-Gay movement is solely based in the belief that being gay is a Choice. That is the problem with her statement... it's a problem because mainstream people are ignorant for the most part and will believe that it is a choice for all Gay people. This belief will further the Anti-Gay movement.

As far as Vlasta is concerned. She had her experiences and it looks like she harbors much resentment. I don't think her intent was to harm anyone here on this site. I know Vlasta, I lived with her for awhile and she is a good friend and the best friend I ever had. What most of you don't know is that Vlasta is from another country and I think Culturally, she is often very misunderstood due to the fact that English is her second language as well as her Cultural background and upbringing. A lot of people can not even begin to understand, but please if you have an issue with a statement she or anyone else makes - take it offline before making wild accusations and assumptions. AT the very least try to gain some cultural competence. I'm not saying that I agree with her statements. I am saying that i know her and I know some of her history, which I am not at liberty to discuss... just ask before jumping to conclusions based upon her attempt to convey her thoughts in a language that is foreign to her as well as the Culture of this Country.

sorry Vlasta - don't be angry with me... I just felt like I had to say something as your friend and someone here who truly knows you.

[Reader]

Fascinating, illuminating posts here...