"Stud" versus "Butch"

[dixie]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I would hope some educating goes on with these youngsters.

Originally Posted by Corkey

I think there is a difference between terminology and appropriation. One is the use of language to clearly define, the other is the taking without regard for another's culture. I also think that perhaps these kids need to respect folks culture and not just take what is not theirs.

I think, therein lies the issue. Using the video for example: Say this privileged white youngster only associates/hangs out with other privileged white youngsters. Knowing youth, I know that most will not research these things on their own. So, who will educate them? (Theoretically.) That, I believe, is the issue that perpetuates the cycle. If they do not have someone willing to say, "hey, did you know...", then they will continue to latch on without that knowledge/regard.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Electrocell

You definitely have a point there. Culture ----- civilization, society, mores , background traditions, ethnicity, customs , way of life. Those kids should respect their elders etc. but how many have been taught ---yes I said taught to do that?

That, I do believe is the operative word. Cultural appropriation has been going on for quite awhile. Often when confronted with it either a light bulb goes off or a heated discussion breaks out. I prefer light bulb moments.

[Electrocell]

Originally Posted by dixie

I think, therein lies the issue. Using the video for example: Say this privileged white youngster only associates/hangs out with other privileged white youngsters. Knowing youth, I know that most will not research these things on their own. So, who will educate them? (Theoretically.) That, I believe, is the issue that perpetuates the cycle. If they do not have someone willing to say, "hey, did you know...", then they will continue to latch on without that knowledge/regard.

Right --raise theirselves making it up as they go along.

[Electrocell]

Originally Posted by Corkey

That, I do believe is the operative word. Cultural appropriation has been going on for quite awhile. Often when confronted with it either a light bulb goes off or a heated discussion breaks out. I prefer light bulb moments.

LOL I agree with you on that one.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by dixie

I think, therein lies the issue. Using the video for example: Say this privileged white youngster only associates/hangs out with other privileged white youngsters. Knowing youth, I know that most will not research these things on their own. So, who will educate them? (Theoretically.) That, I believe, is the issue that perpetuates the cycle. If they do not have someone willing to say, "hey, did you know...", then they will continue to latch on without that knowledge/regard.

I think it is up to all of us to educate the youth, they should also take some classes in Sociology, Cultural Anthropology.

[Electrocell]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I think it is up to all of us to educate the youth, they should also take some classes in Sociology, Cultural Anthropology.

Ask yourself though at that age lol what did you think about people of our age opinions. We can try to lead by example and let them know that kind of attitude isn't really acceptable.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Electrocell

Ask yourself though at that age lol what did you think about people of our age opinions. We can try to lead by example and let them know that kind of attitude isn't really acceptable.

I was in the service, so I have a slightly different view on that. I also grew up respecting my elders and being open to knew ideas and cultures, while respecting those cultures and ideas. I'm an old fart, I know...

[Electrocell]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I was in the service, so I have a slightly different view on that. I also grew up respecting my elders and being open to knew ideas and cultures, while respecting those cultures and ideas. I'm an old fart, I know...

LOL so am I. Was taught to respect my elders also.
I've been around alot of different cultures myself-----almost went into the services ---almost lol. To much of a rebel back then to let someone tell me what to do 24/7. Still can't handle the 24/7 or some of societies rules , but if I want to keep my ass out of jail or keep a job I have to abide lol.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I think it is up to all of us to educate the youth, they should also take some classes in Sociology, Cultural Anthropology.

I agree. And I know others also say they agree. But then I see threads started by newbies in the community, often young in age, asking questions, innocently, that they are curious about and honestly do not know the answer to, and what happens? Sometimes responses are welcoming and encouraging, and sometimes they are dismissive, condescending, and "Why don't you read some threads before you come in here and ask those kinds of questions?" or "It's easy to google it, so why don't you?" I think it's a lovely idea to agree that we should educate youth, but then we actually have to follow through with it. And I don't think it actually stops with youth. I know plenty of adults that could use some education - especially in Developmental Psychology.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

I agree. And I know others also say they agree. But then I see threads started by newbies in the community, often young in age, asking questions, innocently, that they are curious about and honestly do not know the answer to, and what happens? Sometimes responses are welcoming and encouraging, and sometimes they are dismissive, condescending, and "Why don't you read some threads before you come in here and ask those kinds of questions?" or "It's easy to google it, so why don't you?" I think it's a lovely idea to agree that we should educate youth, but then we actually have to follow through with it. And I don't think it actually stops with youth. I know plenty of adults that could use some education - especially in Developmental Psychology.

I think it is the approach, hence why *I* personally have issues with people not doing their own homework. When *I* first started coming to sites like this I did a whole lot of reading and did some self discovery. *I* don't like looking like an idiot.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I think it is the approach, hence why *I* personally have issues with people not doing their own homework. When *I* first started coming to sites like this I did a whole lot of reading and did some self discovery. *I* don't like looking like an idiot.

I can understand the overwhelming excitement of discovery and wanting to jump in with both feet, so, I don't see someone asking a question as looking like an idiot. I agree that everyone approaches things in different ways - it's part of what makes us such a lovely and diverse community.

[PapiChino]

In Oakland, California, it's the term the young dykes use to identify themselves. I DO think of horses when I hear it. I prefer the term butch, but as someone mentioned here it has been used in the past to refer to handsome virile young man and I don't think some young people relate it to breeding stock, but maybe some do. Culture and age is truly part of the attraction and reason for certain terms being acceptable.

[Chancie]

Originally Posted by Chancie

Stud isn't a new term and there are probably a few references online, if you googled a bit.

I am quoting myself to ask a question.

Why does it seem critical or silencing to suggest a resource for information?

I'm curious why it's a bad thing to do a little research.

I know that I don't especially think, The Internet, right or wrong, but

Why wouldn't someone want to concern themselves with a range of ideas?

[The_Lady_Snow]

People, don't like doing their own research when it comes to cultural differences, it's expected that the answers are handed to them quietly. I can't count how many times when cultural differences come up that the bully/silencing deflection comes up when POC refuse to do the leg work for those who want answers. Unless it handed to them(general)
they're not going to learn it on their own. It's not a POC's job to educate not only the white folk out in the real world, here on BFP and certainly not over a video of a white kid from SANTA BARBARA spewing her appropriations. It really isn't yet it's EXPECTED. Do your homework folks, don't expect others to do it for you.

Originally Posted by Chancie

I am quoting myself to ask a question.

Why does it seem critical or silencing to suggest a resource for information?

I'm curious why it's a bad thing to do a little research.

I know that I don't especially think, The Internet, right or wrong, but

Why wouldn't someone want to concern themselves with a range of ideas?

[GraffitiBoi]

Originally Posted by PapiChino

In Oakland, California, it's the term the young dykes use to identify themselves. I DO think of horses when I hear it. I prefer the term butch, but as someone mentioned here it has been used in the past to refer to handsome virile young man and I don't think some young people relate it to breeding stock, but maybe some do. Culture and age is truly part of the attraction and reason for certain terms being acceptable.

Where (and when) I grew up in the Midwest (different area of the Midwest than I currently live in, back in the early '90s) the term stud was used for a butch who only gave when it came to sex. A stud never received from the person they were 'doing.' In my opinion, it all comes down to where you live and from which generation you are from. The term has changed a lot over the years and varies from region to region.

It does seem like a horse for the definition we used back then in our little town. A stud horse was used for one purpose - to get a mare pregnant. A stud in my community was also used for one purpose - to get the other person off. I was a stud back then, but not anymore! Gimme! LOL

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by Chancie

I am quoting myself to ask a question.

Why does it seem critical or silencing to suggest a resource for information?

I'm curious why it's a bad thing to do a little research.

I know that I don't especially think, The Internet, right or wrong, but

Why wouldn't someone want to concern themselves with a range of ideas?

Asking the question is the first step to "doing a little research."
I don't think it's a "bad thing," to suggest the Internet as a resource, but I think the reaction to it depends on the person who asked the question in the first place. For someone shy and new, I can certainly see how it might feel as a shut out answer. From a neutral point of view, I just don't find it very helpful, and as the OP said, she was hoping for a discussion, which did eventually take place. From my own point of view, if I'm looking to connect with my community, I am looking for opinions from my community, not from an Internet search that is going to spit back 85,000,000 results that I have to weed through, not knowing if I'm even on the right track. I haven't tried to Google "why do some butches refer to themselves as studs" so maybe the answer is plain as day, but that still doesn't preclude me from wanting to talk to my own community about it. I trust this community for answers on LGBTQ issues more than I would an Internet search.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

People, don't like doing their own research when it comes to cultural differences, it's expected that the answers are handed to them quietly. I can't count how many times when cultural differences come up that the bully/silencing deflection comes up when POC refuse to do the leg work for those who want answers. Unless it handed to them(general)
they're not going to learn it on their own. It's not a POC's job to educate not only the white folk out in the real world, here on BFP and certainly not over a video of a white kid from SANTA BARBARA spewing her appropriations. It really isn't yet it's EXPECTED. Do your homework folks, don't expect others to do it for you.

In reference to this particular thread, the question wasn't about cultural differences- the OP was looking for the source of the different use in terms. It wasn't until a few of us answered "it's a cultural thing" that it became a discussion about culture. The problem I have with the point of view that people should "educate themselves" is that it presumes people know which sources are "good" sources. Everyone who writes a book thinks its good and real and true information, so how does someone who doesn't know anything about that subject know if they are reading good, real, and true information? Speaking for myself, I'd rather go to someone I know or a community I am familiar with and ask questions than to read articles on the Internet, or books, and try to figure out what's real and what's bullshit. If someone were researching discrimination in education, do you think all of the available research materials would point them in a clear and defined direction that would be in the same direction of people's experiences and opinions of this community? Some would and some woudn't, so that takes them back to square one. I'm for *helping* people become educated; I don't expect them to do it on their own.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Sad truth is, that POC aren't running to join BFP or they aren't willing to share their experiences and culture and words they use because of stuff like this. The last You Tube that was posted as a I'm not really sure why is certainly not going to feel welcoming to folks who do identify as these cultural terms. It just isn't. The shame on you for not taking time to educate us more thing gets old. I know I get tired of it, because frankly QoS, we have come in here and helped define, explain and put out there what Studs. Aggressives. Macha culture is. It took one You Tube from some kid from Santa Barbara of all places to turn this back into give the white folk a break, why aren't you educating them. That girl on that video isn't going to be educated, she said it herself, it's how she sees it and fuck the rest of ya'll if you disagree.


What's the point in putting in a shit ton of time explaining over and over what the terms are and the cultural back ground when all of a sudden some white kid comes in and spews all kinds of shit and now we have to stop, educate, and take a step back because she's 18 and young?


That girl isn't going to make room for me as a Woman of Color in the world, why am I having to for her, a person I don't even know, a person like all the other persons out in the real world that I am having to make room for because they aren't educated on cultural terms, people, lives.


That's where I am coming from as in do your damn homework on your own, it's really a waste of time to even type it out because people just don't.


Nobody educated me on other peoples, I took the time and I educated myself on how to maneuver around all the other cultures around me at all times.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Sad truth is, that POC aren't running to join BFP or they aren't willing to share their experiences and culture and words they use because of stuff like this. The last You Tube that was posted as a I'm not really sure why is certainly not going to feel welcoming to folks who do identify as these cultural terms. It just isn't. The shame on you for not taking time to educate us more thing gets old. I know I get tired of it, because frankly QoS, we have come in here and helped define, explain and put out there what Studs. Aggressives. Macha culture is. It took one You Tube from some kid from Santa Barbara of all places to turn this back into give the white folk a break, why aren't you educating them. That girl on that video isn't going to be educated, she said it herself, it's how she sees it and fuck the rest of ya'll if you disagree.


What's the point in putting in a shit ton of time explaining over and over what the terms are and the cultural back ground when all of a sudden some white kid comes in and spews all kinds of shit and now we have to stop, educate, and take a step back because she's 18 and young?


That girl isn't going to make room for me as a Woman of Color in the world, why am I having to for her, a person I don't even know, a person like all the other persons out in the real world that I am having to make room for because they aren't educated on cultural terms, people, lives.


That's where I am coming from as in do your damn homework on your own, it's really a waste of time to even type it out because people just don't.


Nobody educated me on other peoples, I took the time and I educated myself on how to maneuver around all the other cultures around me at all times.

Thank you for sharing all of this, and I know it's come up in many threads before. I want to be very clear about one thing though - I am not coming from a "shame on you" place, *at all*. I get what you're saying - frankly there were times I felt the same way about educating people about the queer community, it can be exhausting. But what I'm afraid of is that if we *don't* step up and take the opportunity to educate someone who is asking for answers, he or she will get their "education" from people like we saw in that fucked up video. I agree that some people can never be freed from their ignorance, no matter how hard you try, but there are clearly others who really do want to understand, and I just hate to see those opportunities wasted. I'm not saying we should spoon feed all of the information, but we can at least provide some resources and be a resource ourselves.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

Thank you for sharing all of this, and I know it's come up in many threads before. I want to be very clear about one thing though - I am not coming from a "shame on you" place, *at all*. I get what you're saying - frankly there were times I felt the same way about educating people about the queer community, it can be exhausting. But what I'm afraid of is that if we *don't* step up and take the opportunity to educate someone who is asking for answers, he or she will get their "education" from people like we saw in that fucked up video. I agree that some people can never be freed from their ignorance, no matter how hard you try, but there are clearly others who really do want to understand, and I just hate to see those opportunities wasted. I'm not saying we should spoon feed all of the information, but we can at least provide some resources and be a resource ourselves.

QoS there were plenty of posts that were educational for the OP, she even stated so. The last You Tube video wasn't conducive to the conversation that had been had.

All it did was stir up up shit. Then when there was a WTF response by me I was taken to task for reacting in the manner I did, mind you I was not the ONLY one that was like WTF, yet I am the one singled out because of my WTF matter of fact I got accused of bullying.

So at this point it's tiring to continue to have to put in any more effort, because every fucking time I do someone, somewhere, and they are generally white come an tell me I am to LOUD, TO AGGRESSIVE, I'm a BULLY it goes on and on and on.


I don't care how the convo goes now, it isn't like anyone is going to listen anyway to what Stud, Aggressives, Machas are.

It's obvious.

I'm not as patient as you