Welcome AZ Butches, Femmes, Trans

[apretty]

I wouldn't say that this state is friendly to/for anyone other than white, middle-aged and hopefully male, straight-acting, republican mormons without a lot of university education and zero ecological or political concern.

There are a few less-hateful places in central phoenix (and definitely Tucson!) but nowhere welcoming if you're a POC.

Most of the gays that I've come across are content with a "lifestyle" that isn't officially recognized, or that is 'downlow' and are not out or just out to close friends or other gays in the community. (That I want and think everyone is deserving of human rights, like *yesterday* has/does put more than a few people off--but I am not *from* here. )

The phx GLBTIQ center is a tiny store front in a strip mall. The state just implemented a law that bans ethnic studies and also *requires* the police to stop and question anyone they suspect to be in arizona "illegally" --without any clear guidelines as how to enforce this law without 'racial profiling'. ...And today it's 115 degrees.

Where are you moving *from*?

[lipstixgal]

Originally Posted by apretty

I wouldn't say that this state is friendly to/for anyone other than white, middle-aged and hopefully male, straight-acting, republican mormons without a lot of university education and zero ecological or political concern.

There are a few less-hateful places in central phoenix (and definitely Tucson!) but nowhere welcoming if you're a POC.

Most of the gays that I've come across are content with a "lifestyle" that isn't officially recognized, or that is 'downlow' and are not out or just out to close friends or other gays in the community. (That I want and think everyone is deserving of human rights, like *yesterday* has/does put more than a few people off--but I am not *from* here. )

The phx GLBTIQ center is a tiny store front in a strip mall. The state just implemented a law that bans ethnic studies and also *requires* the police to stop and question anyone they suspect to be in arizona "illegally" --without any clear guidelines as how to enforce this law without 'racial profiling'. ...And today it's 115 degrees.

Where are you moving *from*?

Well with that said I'm moving from NJ which is not too gay friendly either its all in NYC which is time consuming and costs money to go into all the time!! but the Mormon thing scares a bit. That is just a cult in my minds eye!! I did research on that religion and yeah its a cult. Also I'm Jewish and gay!! I'm really going for the weather because its warm and don't want to winter anymore!!

[friskyfemme]

Originally Posted by lipstixgal

Well with that said I'm moving from NJ which is not too gay friendly either its all in NYC which is time consuming and costs money to go into all the time!! but the Mormon thing scares a bit. That is just a cult in my minds eye!! I did research on that religion and yeah its a cult. Also I'm Jewish and gay!! I'm really going for the weather because its warm and don't want to winter anymore!!

I was concerned with the Mormon influence before I moved to AZ. I really met it 'head on' when I live in White Mountains region and Prescott area. Yes I would agree as apretty stated there is more a 'down low' community in the Phoenix area. As far as women's club there is only one identified as in the Phoenix area such in the Phoenix.

But to AZ's credit, more so here in other states, I've lived there is a large mixed gay crowd in most bars and hetro/gay places. However, I am not much for bars as a place for meeting people.

AZ has elected and appointed officals that are outwardly gay.

[lipstixgal]

Originally Posted by friskyfemme

I was concerned with the Mormon influence before I moved to AZ. I really met it 'head on' when I live in White Mountains region and Prescott area. Yes I would agree as apretty stated there is more a 'down low' community in the Phoenix area. As far as women's club there is only one identified as in the Phoenix area such in the Phoenix.

But to AZ's credit, more so here in other states, I've lived there is a large mixed gay crowd in most bars and hetro/gay places. However, I am not much for bars as a place for meeting people.

AZ has elected and appointed officals that are outwardly gay.

Thanks for the input but I think that there has to be non-Mormon communities around. I know for a fact that there are Jews in the area. North Central Phoenix is very Jewish but yeah I hear you on the Mormon thing, its really scary!! The LDS was behind the Prop 8 in California banning gay marriage in that state. The Mormons are very anti-gay, anti-everything!! But I will take that in mind before the final decision is to be made!!

[lipstixgal]

Any butch-femme happenings going on in PHoenix these days, still thinking about relocating to that state so I don't have tot deal with the traffic and winter. NJ is just too damn crowded for me!! I want some place where you can really drive your car and not get a headache in the process. It took me 45 minutes to get a lamb kebob platter from Whole Foods in Paramus, NJ which is only about 5 miles away!!

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by lipstixgal

Thanks for the input but I think that there has to be non-Mormon communities around. I know for a fact that there are Jews in the area. North Central Phoenix is very Jewish but yeah I hear you on the Mormon thing, its really scary!! The LDS was behind the Prop 8 in California banning gay marriage in that state. The Mormons are very anti-gay, anti-everything!! But I will take that in mind before the final decision is to be made!!

I'm not trying to start a holy war - and for the record, I'm atheist, so it isn't a personal religious thing, but I have to say, the comment above about Mormons being "very anti-gay, anti-everything", and the "mormon thing" being "really scary"........ really?

I personally know several mormons, a couple of them are even gay. They aren't anti-gay or scary.

Frankly, I'm appalled at blanket statements targeting any group, religious or otherwise, especially on a site like this where a very "targeted" group of people come together for socializing, entertainment and/or support.

I personally don't give a crap what the religious make-up is in a community. I've lived all over, I've conducted business all over, with and amongst a variety of people. Why would I care what a stranger's religious beliefs are? What does that really have to do with me?

I lived in Colorado for most of my life - the first state to put anti-gay legislation to a vote (in 1994?), sponsored by the Christian group Focus On The Family. Do I support right-wing Christian beliefs and politics? No. Did I leave Colorado because of it? No.

I just can't imagine shunning a place to live because it has a predominant religious group.

[friskyfemme]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

I'm not trying to start a holy war - and for the record, I'm atheist, so it isn't a personal religious thing, but I have to say, the comment above about Mormons being "very anti-gay, anti-everything", and the "mormon thing" being "really scary"........ really?

I personally know several mormons, a couple of them are even gay. They aren't anti-gay or scary.

Frankly, I'm appalled at blanket statements targeting any group, religious or otherwise, especially on a site like this where a very "targeted" group of people come together for socializing, entertainment and/or support.

I personally don't give a crap what the religious make-up is in a community. I've lived all over, I've conducted business all over, with and amongst a variety of people. Why would I care what a stranger's religious beliefs are? What does that really have to do with me?

I lived in Colorado for most of my life - the first state to put anti-gay legislation to a vote (in 1994?), sponsored by the Christian group Focus On The Family. Do I support right-wing Christian beliefs and politics? No. Did I leave Colorado because of it? No.

I just can't imagine shunning a place to live because it has a predominant religious group.

QoS

I was not agreeing with 'apretty' about the 'anti' statements she made about the Mormons. My experience with Mormon saturated areas in Central AZ, has more to do with the practices of female suppression and refusing jobs to persons who were not Mormon. I have not met with that attitude in Phoenix or west valley. But then again, if you moved into a Quaker or Amish community you would most likely meet the same thing. (ok I may be chewing my toes now). On the contrary, my neighbor who is also Hispanic and Mormon was the first to greet me to the neighborhood when I moved in my house 2yrs ago. My friends that are RLDS donot hold the same interpretation of the beliefs as do LDS. I donot believe in putting people including gays in boxes. I have come to understand, people acquire wisdom through environment, experience and dimension of their lives.

I apologize if gave any other impression.

[asphaltcowboi]

i disagree with this but only from my personal expierances.. i moved here from the san francisco bay area and was pleasantly suprised how friendly people were to me.. from the biker bars to strangers in the park. if i didnt push my bizz on them they didnt push theres on my and were very friendly. i never try to push my lifestyle-religon- or morals on anyone and if im treated with the same respect i consider it a grat day. no way would i expect a new aquintance to fully understand where ive been or what makes me who i am.

Originally Posted by apretty

I wouldn't say that this state is friendly to/for anyone other than white, middle-aged and hopefully male, straight-acting, republican mormons without a lot of university education and zero ecological or political concern.

There are a few less-hateful places in central phoenix (and definitely Tucson!) but nowhere welcoming if you're a POC.

Most of the gays that I've come across are content with a "lifestyle" that isn't officially recognized, or that is 'downlow' and are not out or just out to close friends or other gays in the community. (That I want and think everyone is deserving of human rights, like *yesterday* has/does put more than a few people off--but I am not *from* here. )

The phx GLBTIQ center is a tiny store front in a strip mall. The state just implemented a law that bans ethnic studies and also *requires* the police to stop and question anyone they suspect to be in arizona "illegally" --without any clear guidelines as how to enforce this law without 'racial profiling'. ...And today it's 115 degrees.

Where are you moving *from*?

[apretty]

to clarify, i didn't make any "anti" statements about mormons.

to be clear, i could detail my disdain for mormons in about 40 different ways (from their political involvement to the high mormon gay teen suicide/homeless stats) it's just that no one was asking my take religion, in this particular thread.

i did summarize my arizona experience.


Queenofsmirks-- You should see Prop 8: The mormon proposition --It played here in a single theatre for all of a week.

Originally Posted by friskyfemme

QoS

I was not agreeing with 'apretty' about the 'anti' statements she made about the Mormons. My experience with Mormon saturated areas in Central AZ, has more to do with the practices of female suppression and refusing jobs to persons who were not Mormon. I have not met with that attitude in Phoenix or west valley. But then again, if you moved into a Quaker or Amish community you would most likely meet the same thing. (ok I may be chewing my toes now). On the contrary, my neighbor who is also Hispanic and Mormon was the first to greet me to the neighborhood when I moved in my house 2yrs ago. My friends that are RLDS donot hold the same interpretation of the beliefs as do LDS. I donot believe in putting people including gays in boxes. I have come to understand, people acquire wisdom through environment, experience and dimension of their lives.

I apologize if gave any other impression.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by friskyfemme

QoS

I was not agreeing with 'apretty' about the 'anti' statements she made about the Mormons. ...

I apologize if gave any other impression.

Nothing in your post made me raise an eyebrow, no worries.

I quoted the post that I found offensive (within my previous post).

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by apretty

to clarify, i didn't make any "anti" statements about mormons.

to be clear, i could detail my disdain for mormons in about 40 different ways (from their political involvement to the high mormon gay teen suicide/homeless stats) it's just that no one was asking my take religion, in this particular thread.

i did summarize my arizona experience.


Queenofsmirks-- You should see Prop 8: The mormon proposition --It played here in a single theatre for all of a week.

Please understand, I'm not here to change anyone's view of the Mormon religion, or any religion for that matter. I'm sure 'Prop 8' outlines the very scum of the Mormon religion but I don't need to see it to know that religious zealots of ALL religions get up to no good in the name of their religious beliefs. As an aside, I'm not stranger to the Mormon religion - I actively boycotted Utah for its political stance on many issues, but none of this is really the point of my previous post.

The point I tried to make earlier is that not *all people* of one religion can be classified as this or that. I personally have an extreme disdain for the Catholic religion, but I think if I posted "All Catholics are pedophiles" it might seem a bit ignorant.

As an aside, a good point was made by FriskyFemme, (which I think I started to make in my own post but then got sidetracked), and that is that quality of life is important no matter where you live. If you live in an area that is unsafe or discriminatory toward you, then you certainly need to re-examine your surroundings.

As far as being discriminated against because of being female and not belonging to the predominant religion - I totally get it because I was treated the same way by some of the Jews in the neighborhood when I lived in Queens. Lucky for me I didn't have to rely upon them for work, or frankly, for anything else. I just took my business elsewhere, but that was easy enough to do given the area I lived in.

Bottom line - there are zealots in every religion, but I personally can't think of a single religion where every member can be completely defined by its values.

[QueenofSmirks]

And one more thing -- even though the thread has taken another direction (for these last few posts), I am really enjoying reading the responses, even though we may not all agree.

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by cody

i disagree with this but only from my personal expierances.. i moved here from the san francisco bay area and was pleasantly suprised how friendly people were to me.. from the biker bars to strangers in the park. if i didnt push my bizz on them they didnt push theres on my and were very friendly. i never try to push my lifestyle-religon- or morals on anyone and if im treated with the same respect i consider it a grat day. no way would i expect a new aquintance to fully understand where ive been or what makes me who i am.

Hello Cody,

I'm not really sure what you mean about pushing your bizz, lifestyle, religion or morals on people. It sounds like you've had good experiences here in Arizona.

I guess for me it just depends on how far I want to take my head out of the sand. If I want to live and work in a place where I've seen strangers and co-workers openly mock gay people I'd stay in Phoenix. If I want to live in a place where I can be out and about all day long and rarely see a POC except in the poorest of neighborhoods or working out in a field I'd stay in Phoenix. If I want to stay in a place where my gf's 10 year old niece has a teacher who says that the most of the native kids are "bad" I'd stay here in Phoenix. If I want to stay in a place where in January the Governor declared a "day of prayer for the state budget" instead of actually doing her job, I'd stay in Arizona. And if I want to live in place that has the law in place to pull people over based on skin color I'd stay in Arizona. I've lived in four states since I've been an adult and honestly I've never lived in a place where hate is so VISIBLE and most people seem SO OKAY with it.

Arizona has beautiful sunsets and some wonderous and scenic places. It also has a low cost of living which in these tough times is rare.

So inconclusion Cody, if by you saying "no way would i expect a new aquintance to fully understand where ive been or what makes me who i am" I would agree. And please, correct me if I'm wrong here, you are saying that in AZ you perceive people being of tolerant of you. For me tolerance does not equal acceptance though. I've lived in AZ for nine months and I don't see a lot of acceptance of gays or people of color here. It really came down to that for my gf and I. We choose not to live here because of that.

[asphaltcowboi]

Originally Posted by EzeeTiger

Hello Cody,

I'm not really sure what you mean about pushing your bizz, lifestyle, religion or morals on people. It sounds like you've had good experiences here in Arizona.

I guess for me it just depends on how far I want to take my head out of the sand. If I want to live and work in a place where I've seen strangers and co-workers openly mock gay people I'd stay in Phoenix. If I want to live in a place where I can be out and about all day long and rarely see a POC except in the poorest of neighborhoods or working out in a field I'd stay in Phoenix. If I want to stay in a place where my gf's 10 year old niece has a teacher who says that the most of the native kids are "bad" I'd stay here in Phoenix. If I want to stay in a place where in January the Governor declared a "day of prayer for the state budget" instead of actually doing her job, I'd stay in Arizona. And if I want to live in place that has the law in place to pull people over based on skin color I'd stay in Arizona. I've lived in four states since I've been an adult and honestly I've never lived in a place where hate is so VISIBLE and most people seem SO OKAY with it.

Arizona has beautiful sunsets and some wonderous and scenic places. It also has a low cost of living which in these tough times is rare.

So inconclusion Cody, if by you saying "no way would i expect a new aquintance to fully understand where ive been or what makes me who i am" I would agree. And please, correct me if I'm wrong here, you are saying that in AZ you perceive people being of tolerant of you. For me tolerance does not equal acceptance though. I've lived in AZ for nine months and I don't see a lot of acceptance of gays or people of color here. It really came down to that for my gf and I. We choose not to live here because of that.

well all i can say is i dont have kids in the school system but i did work the first three years i lived here i was fairly lucky with the work i found other then a couple places that were way under paid due to the alility to hire cheap labor in this state. i am retired now and have ssdi an a full pension from a union job in calif.. the one thing i do not like about this state is that it is a right to work state and i strongly believe in the unions.
i am out 24/7 where ever i go and have had no problems here. i have been in what were suposed to be openly gay state and have been beat, knived shot at and yelled at from car windows just for my appearance. being very much male id ed.. with my driver lisence showing my true name that is very girly my trouble usually will start at that point when i have to show id.. but i have never thought or even tried to pull of the male roll and im sure people are not just always assuming im male... all i can say is that i have never encountered the same problems like i have in san francisco, chiago, bronx, portland.= or other larger citys i have lived in or worked in. but then i also got along well in oklahoma city and tulsa. people have the right to live where ever they want.
as far as what i mean by pushing my bizz on others.. it was meant as i do not go into a straight bar and make out with my girl friend.... i dont do that in public ever not matter where im at. but i do introduce my date or g/f as such i dont hide it but i dont push it either.. introduction and let it be. if someone is allowed to act an ass i let them unless i have femme company then i simply take myself and her elsewhere. am i afraid .. no way at 5'10 225 lbs mostly muscel and have obviously walked alot of roads people dont generaly fuck with me. if i am missing you point please excuse me .. grrr i have been taking pain killers for dental work.. but i think im responding correctly. i also believe people have the right to there opinions.. all i can say when i hear people complain about where they live then move! for me i love it here.. all except the "to hot to even ride days"
i may have been very lucky in my employment one of my employers was a trucking company that had two tg- mtf's driving for them and had no problem with them wearinf there female id to any company funtions or anywhere else they were not treated any diffrently then anyone else.. yes some of the other drivers disc'd them but only under there breath. if they want to continue work there they had to keep it to themselfs. and this is one of the largest companys in az. every state is going to have its good and bad just like every employer is going to have its workers and its slackers. it all part of life and being able to accept other for who they are with out judgement. yes az has a problem with illeagles and the crime that is brought from it. but they are trying to find ways to deal with it. i dont alway agree with the way the state handles it but sometimes i do. i am not at that level politicly and i am glad those decisions are not made my just one person but made by votes and majority feelings of the people that live here. do i agree maybe,, do i disagree maybe. some yes and some no. i do vote and that is my part of the job.. am i going to toss fits because things are not how i want them no i will either learn to live with majority, keep my mouth shut or leave.

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by cody

well all i can say is i dont have kids in the school system but i did work the first three years i lived here i was fairly lucky with the work i found other then a couple places that were way under paid due to the alility to hire cheap labor in this state. i am retired now and have ssdi an a full pension from a union job in calif.. the one thing i do not like about this state is that it is a right to work state and i strongly believe in the unions.
i am out 24/7 where ever i go and have had no problems here. i have been in what were suposed to be openly gay state and have been beat, knived shot at and yelled at from car windows just for my appearance. being very much male id ed.. with my driver lisence showing my true name that is very girly my trouble usually will start at that point when i have to show id.. but i have never thought or even tried to pull of the male roll and im sure people are not just always assuming im male... all i can say is that i have never encountered the same problems like i have in san francisco, chiago, bronx, portland.= or other larger citys i have lived in or worked in. but then i also got along well in oklahoma city and tulsa. people have the right to live where ever they want.
as far as what i mean by pushing my bizz on others.. it was meant as i do not go into a straight bar and make out with my girl friend.... i dont do that in public ever not matter where im at. but i do introduce my date or g/f as such i dont hide it but i dont push it either.. introduction and let it be. if someone is allowed to act an ass i let them unless i have femme company then i simply take myself and her elsewhere. am i afraid .. no way at 5'10 225 lbs mostly muscel and have obviously walked alot of roads people dont generaly fuck with me. if i am missing you point please excuse me .. grrr i have been taking pain killers for dental work.. but i think im responding correctly. i also believe people have the right to there opinions.. all i can say when i hear people complain about where they live then move! for me i love it here.. all except the "to hot to even ride days"
i may have been very lucky in my employment one of my employers was a trucking company that had two tg- mtf's driving for them and had no problem with them wearinf there female id to any company funtions or anywhere else they were not treated any diffrently then anyone else.. yes some of the other drivers disc'd them but only under there breath. if they want to continue work there they had to keep it to themselfs. and this is one of the largest companys in az. every state is going to have its good and bad just like every employer is going to have its workers and its slackers. it all part of life and being able to accept other for who they are with out judgement. yes az has a problem with illeagles and the crime that is brought from it. but they are trying to find ways to deal with it. i dont alway agree with the way the state handles it but sometimes i do. i am not at that level politicly and i am glad those decisions are not made my just one person but made by votes and majority feelings of the people that live here. do i agree maybe,, do i disagree maybe. some yes and some no. i do vote and that is my part of the job.. am i going to toss fits because things are not how i want them no i will either learn to live with majority, keep my mouth shut or leave.

Thanks for responding Cody, I appreciate you taking the time even though we don't agree.

[friskyfemme]

EzeeTiger and pretty,

Have a safe trip. Much happinees in your new beginning. May the winds be behind you and the sun kiss our faces.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by friskyfemme

EzeeTiger and pretty,

Have a safe trip. Much happinees in your new beginning. May the winds be behind you and the sun kiss our faces.

thanks very much!!!

(if only everything would FIT in our relo-cubes)

[Soon]

Judge Blocks Arizona Law That Would Eliminate Domestic Partner Benefits For Gay State Workers

[asphaltcowboi]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Judge Blocks Arizona Law That Would Eliminate Domestic Partner Benefits For Gay State Workers

un blievable... and i think last summer they just opened hospital visits and rights to same sax couples.. i must have been mistaken when i thought in time this state would be going in a positive direction.

[friskyfemme]

Originally Posted by cody

un blievable... and i think last summer they just opened hospital visits and rights to same sax couples.. i must have been mistaken when i thought in time this state would be going in a positive direction.

Being a state employee...I know all to well of how a governor can alter my benefits...
As a state employee we are not allowed to picket or give our opinions o the media.
This is the same in all states not just AZ. We depend on concerned citizens o be our voice. So if the people of the state don't stand up and vote...we are all screwed (state employees and private citizens alike).