Liberals & Progressives in Business - Not mutually Exclusive

[AtLast]

Probably because I have worked in both the public and private sector and come from a family business, background, I often feel there exists a belief that one cannot be liberal or progressive politically and pro-business in any shape or form. The two just cannot co-exist in populations that tend toward more liberal thinking. I could be wrong.

What do you think?

[Apocalipstic]

For me they can co-exist.

I can be socially very liberal and pro-business in a fair sense.

I somehow think that businesses can be fair and still make a profit. That businesses do not have to take advantage of and grind its workers into the dirt to be viable.

Now what should a business be for example? Should it be a for profit Healthcare Industry? No.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Probably because I have worked in both the public and private sector and come from a family business, background, I often feel there exists a belief that one cannot be liberal or progressive politically and pro-business in any shape or form. The two just cannot co-exist in populations that tend toward more liberal thinking. I could be wrong.

What do you think?

I think it's a myth--in fact I think it's a hoary chestnut that is actually two, two, two myths in one!

Myth 1: Liberals aren't practical people, businesspeople are practical, therefore businesspeople can't be liberals and liberals can't be businesspeople.

Myth 2: Liberals are against hard work. Businesspeople work hard. Therefore, liberals can't be businesspeople.

Both of these ideas are not even wrong but they have taken on a life of their own. I also think it is sensitive to what one means by 'liberal'. There are liberals who I think have such a knee-jerk reaction against capitalism that they would be very unlikely to open their own business and I think that myth #1 is built up from the liberal who conforms to that stereotype.

Myth #2 is really just a way of getting at this:

1) Liberals favor non-whites
2) Non-whites are lazy and don't want to work.
3) Therefore, liberals don't want to work.

There's no other really good explanation for that meme. Why else, the thinking goes, would middle-class or well-to-do whites advocate for social programs? (It is assumed, rightly or wrongly, that blacks and Latinas are just that--we aren't even given the dignity of having political positions, allegedly my voting behavior is driven not by ideology but by skin color.)

Cheers
Aj

[Apocalipstic]

Many people think that Liberal means Socialist or Communist.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

For me they can co-exist.

I can be socially very liberal and pro-business in a fair sense.

I somehow think that businesses can be fair and still make a profit. That businesses do not have to take advantage of and grind its workers into the dirt to be viable.

Now what should a business be for example? Should it be a for profit Healthcare Industry? No.

I would go even farther than that. To the degree that we are talking about a small business that produces something or provides a direct service I think that, on the whole, Adam Smith is more right than wrong that largely the market will handle things without government intervention. So the local green grocer, the local butcher, the local beauty shop should, within reason, be left alone to run their business as they see fit as long as they comply with basic health and safety laws. It is when businesses either become very large (employing hundreds of people instead of 4 or 5) and/or their products become very abstracted (here I'm thinking financial services, insurance, etc.) that they should increasingly come under regulation. Financial services should be regulated not because I hate high finance but because the 'products' are so abstracted, the amount of damage that can be done so vast, that the risk-to-benefit ratio tilts toward regulating them.

The reason for this is pretty straightforward; if your stylist messes up your hair, you can walk into the shop and make a fuss causing the other patrons to lose faith in the place. Your friends, family and coworkers may ask about your haircut (or you may tell them) and they will not go to that shop. The green grocer who sells rotten fruit will lose business. If it were the case that large multinational banks would lose customers because of their bad business practices Chase, Wells Fargo, Citibank, the whole rogues gallery would have been out of business years ago. With very large business the Adam Smith, 'invisible hand' idea breaks down. Want proof? I give you Microsoft.

Microsoft puts out two products that are worth a damn--Office and the Xbox 360 and Office is bloated beyond belief. Windows is a manifestly inferior operating system. It has been inferior for years now--since at *least* Windows 98. Windows is slower, more bloated, less secure than *either* Mac OS X or Linux. Yet, Windows has the lion share of the market. Because it's better? No. Because Microsoft spent the 90s being absolutely ruthless and Apple made some rather stupid decisions. Yet, in both the consumer and business markets Microsoft is the 800 lb gorilla. How bad is it? Of the dozens of programmers, database admins, system admins or other technical professionals I know the overwhelming majority of us use either Mac or Linux as our operating system. I bring in my personal laptop and use it at work, using my company provided Windows machine for the two pieces of software I have to use for my job that only run on Windows. Every other useful thing I do at work is done on my Mac. Is that inconvenient? Yes. Do I prefer that than using a computer that would send my blood pressure toward the upper-atmosphere? Yes. The daily screams of frustration around me vindicate my decision.

Now, if what the free market fundamentalists said was true then Microsoft would have been punished by the market a long time ago. Microsoft may, in the fullness of time, pay a price for some of their mistakes (cough, Zune, cough) but their behavior has been monopolistic for most of the last two decades and their products have been bloated (at best) and horrendous (cough, Windows ME, cough) at worst for a large part of that time. Why have they not paid a price? Because this idea that free markets always come up with the Panglossian solution is not even wrong.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Many people think that Liberal means Socialist or Communist.

Ironically,(and unfortunately) many people who think that are, themselves, liberals.

Cheers
Aj

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Now what should a business be for example? Should it be a for profit Healthcare Industry? No.

I've been working for a paycheck for 34 years....with 1 four month break when my son was small and having health issues, and 1 eight week matenity leave.

I've worked primarily for small family-owned, local businesses (restaurants, franchised hotels, bars) and about a decade in the non-profit sector. In virtually all of those businesses and non-profits I worked long hours, was subject to some pretty rough work environments, rarely had the tools I needed to get the job done, was poorly paid, frequently had no benefits/sick pay/paid vacation and frequently felt taken advantage of.

Almost 5 years ago I went to work for a fairly large, corporate, for-profit, publicly traded healthcare company....aka the business that many people like to paint as "the villain."

Where I work now I can confidently say that we make a significant difference in the health and well-being of large numbers of people. In fact, I hear from and about them regularly...with stories that can bring tears to your eyes.

As an employee, I have the tools I need to get my job done. I'm well paid. I have good benefits and generous time off. My partner gets the same health, dental and vision benefits that I do...including incentives to take care of her own health (free gym membership and cash incentives to work with a health coach, etc.)...and I can cover her son as well as my own.

My company has enforced policies that prohibit discrimination based on sexual preference or gender identity....and has identical benefits for domestic partners that they do for legal spouses.

For the first time in my working life, I know that I am valued, appreciated and listened to. No, it's not perfect....but they work hard to make it a good place to work.

And, yes.....we turn a profit every year.

Now, I'm not foolish enough to say that every for-profit healthcare company is as good as mine....but they're not all as bad as they're made out to be either.