Click.... when we knew we were feminists

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by lettertodaddy

I don't mean this to sound confrontational at all, but I'm a black woman who grew up in the South and I came from a long line of Black Southern women. I don't think I've ever not been a feminist for those reasons.

Not confrontational at all LD! Each of us knows for ourselves how and when our eyes were opened.

[Quintease]

My mum was supposed to have been a feminist yet I grew up such an angry teen as it wasn't feminism I saw in our house. I was the one she was expecting to cook and clean, while trying to stop me from hanging out with my friends. My brothers were given bikes, expensive toys and all the freedom they could ever want.

Guess who it was that wildly rebelled.

It took a long time, but luckily my mum and I are friends now. She's even admitted to me that she didn't know any other way when she first got married and had kids. She just wanted me to have a happy life and she thought that meant being a good wife and mother. I just thank my lucky stars I turned out to be a lesbian *phew*

[Estella]

I do not remember a time when I wasn't a feminist. My mother was very involved in the women's movement of the 1970's, or as involved as one can be from Platteville, Wisconsin. One of my earliest memories is being in the crowd at an ERA rally in Texas, shouting "hey hey waddaya say, ratify the ERA!" I was probably six or seven. But my "click" moment happened in the third grade, when a substitute teacher was making some sort of remark about ladies. I raised my hand and pointed out that my mother wasn't a lady, she was a woman. What's funny is that I subsequently ran into this teacher, now quite elderly, while I was in high school (veeeery small town) and she actually remembered this incident. She laughed about it, in a sort of weren't-you-a-silly-impertinent-little-girl way. My mother also raised me to be polite, and I saw no point in challenging the old woman.

[Bad_boi]

I don't really think I could ever be a feminist. I would rather be a gender equalist. I see females as equals. Some feminists twist it and wind up hating males and that is the same problem just reversed. (not saying ALL feminists do this) Sexism is sexism. One thing that really bugs me is when a woman will get mad at me for holding a door open or something of the kind. I help people because it is nice. It does not matter to me the person's gender. If they are behind me I am not letting the door hit them and that is really the bottom line there.

[Sparkle]

I have the Catholic Church to thank for my feminism.

I was born "out of wedlock" to my still-in-catholic-high-school taught-by-nuns mother when she was barely 18. My very catholic grandmother was very concerned for my soul; consequently I was in church with her from the time I was an infant and I was enrolled in church school from the moment they would take me.

At age 6, when I discovered that I could neither be a priest nor an altar boy I was shocked and taken aback, when I was told I could not hold those roles BECAUSE I was girl - I was disgusted and appalled. (and I still remember that moment distinctly). I spent the next ten years of my religious education questioning the rationale of every sexist policy, practice and story in the books.

[Dominique]

Originally Posted by Bad_boi

I don't really think I could ever be a feminist. I would rather be a gender equalist. I see females as equals. Some feminists twist it and wind up hating males and that is the same problem just reversed. (not saying ALL feminists do this) Sexism is sexism. One thing that really bugs me is when a woman will get mad at me for holding a door open or something of the kind. I help people because it is nice. It does not matter to me the person's gender. If they are behind me I am not letting the door hit them and that is really the bottom line there.

Hey Bad_Boi....I am going to ask you to elaborate a little further (please)
on the part I changed to red. I find it confusing. Anti woman sentiment. Thank you.

[weatherboi]

the whole point to this thread is to celebrate feminism. it is a mystery to me why you would choose to come in here and share this particular opinion. why come in and share your NONfeminist point of view in a thread that is focusing on the complete opposite? how is this relevant?
can you please clarify why you would come into this thread and insult some of our feminists (not saying ALL feminists will be insulted).

Originally Posted by Bad_boi

I don't really think I could ever be a feminist. I would rather be a gender equalist. I see females as equals. Some feminists twist it and wind up hating males and that is the same problem just reversed. (not saying ALL feminists do this) Sexism is sexism. One thing that really bugs me is when a woman will get mad at me for holding a door open or something of the kind. I help people because it is nice. It does not matter to me the person's gender. If they are behind me I am not letting the door hit them and that is really the bottom line there.

[Dominique]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

the whole point to this thread is to celebrate feminism. it is a mystery to me why you would choose to come in here and share this particular opinion. why come in and share your NONfeminist point of view in a thread that is focusing on the complete opposite? how is this relevant?
can you please clarify why you would come into this thread and insult some of our feminists (not saying ALL feminists will be insulted).

Thank-you weatherboi. Always the Gentleman, I was starting to think I was being overly sensitive.

[*Anya*]

fem·i·nism
[-i-niz-uhm]
- noun 1. support of social, political, and economic rights for women equal to those of men

Thank you Weatherboi.

It was inappropriate to post an anti-feminist statement in a thread supportive of said topic.

[Quintease]

Originally Posted by *Anya*

fem·i·nism
[-i-niz-uhm]
- noun 1. support of social, political, and economic rights for women equal to those of men

Thank you Weatherboi.

It was inappropriate to post an anti-feminist statement in a thread supportive of said topic.

I'm not so sure. I consider myself a feminist, yet just the other day I had a rant on a blog about 'man-hating' feminists getting involved in the sex worker movement - in that I don't think their involvement is appropriate. How can any woman who hates men be involved in any movement that involves women interacting with men, loving men or transitioning to be men?

The trouble with feminism that is against men rather than for women, is that it is often Louder than regular feminism and thus becomes the 'face' of feminism. So part of MY feminism is rejecting the oppression of women by other women.

[Cin]

I don’t think there is a kind of feminism whose definition is that it is against men. I don’t think there is a kind of lesbianism that is against men either. I think there may be people who identify a certain way that may be against men. They may be against puppies, chocolate or rainbows as well but I doubt anyone would advocate that puppy-hater, chocolate-hater or rainbow-hater, in the case of feminists who hate them, should be added to the word feminist and made into a type of feminism. I think there may be men or women, for that matter, who are any number of things, perhaps they are straight or queer or trans or religious or republican or roofers or sports writers who are also misogynist. That does not mean roofers or queers or any of the other things I mentioned should include women hater in their definition. I don’t think it is right and certainly it is not prudent to confuse the purpose and meaning of feminism and instead to define it by the actions of some feminists.

As women we are heirs to a legacy built by women’s libbers and the suffragettes who came before them. Most women will profess to believe in equal pay for equal work, in a woman’s right to choose, in the chance to play on athletic teams, run businesses, graduate from college, enter graduate school, run for public office etc., but if asked if they are a feminist, many will answer that they are not. They hold feminist views but reject the feminist label. Odd? Not really. Feminism has ended up with a rather nasty reputation.

But I suppose when you consider the size of the machine and the enormous power behind it that feminism had to face when it began it’s slow move toward both the vote and some semblance of equality, and add to that the extremely powerless position women were in at the time, it’s more than amazing that we have managed to come this far. Bad press was probably the least of our problems. But more than a hundred years of scare tactics designed to deter women from embracing the ideas of feminism have failed. But the sacrifice to the god of patriarchy seems to have been the term itself. Most women do embrace feminist ideas and ideals. It is identifying as a feminist that is unappealing.

I just think in a world where honor killings, acid attacks, female genital mutilation and other horrific injustices against women are still perpetrated at an alarming rate, and in a country where less that 6% of rapists serve jail time, where approximately 18% of congress is female, where decriminalizing domestic abuse is a reality, where, right now, a bill is in the works that will allow hospitals, if they wish, to let women die rather than performing a life saving abortion or transferring the women to another facility where they could receive the life saving procedure, it is an exercise in extreme folly to reject feminism.

[Quintease]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I don’t think there is a kind of feminism whose definition is that it is against men.

I find it very surprising that you don't believe any part of the feminist movement to be anti-male. Perhaps where you're from the Rad Fem's embrace their transgender, genderqueer, kinky and sex worker sisters and brothers, but that doesn't happen everywhere. In fact where I'm living these groups have been prevented from attending, and/or speaking at political women's marches. That's a sign of oppression however good their intentions.

[SecretAgentMa'am]

Originally Posted by Quintease

I find it very surprising that you don't believe any part of the feminist movement to be anti-male. Perhaps where you're from the Rad Fem's embrace their transgender, genderqueer, kinky and sex worker sisters and brothers, but that doesn't happen everywhere. In fact where I'm living these groups have been prevented from attending, and/or speaking at political women's marches. That's a sign of oppression however good their intentions.

There is a world of difference between "feminism defined as anti-male" and "some people who are feminists are also anti-male." Some people who are feminists are also racist, but that doesn't mean that feminism is racist.

[1QuirkyKiwi]

I’ve mentioned before that I was raised in the Maori culture where traditionally men and women are more-or less-equal. I was thrust into a profession dominated by men and as the only disabled person, let alone disabled woman, I HAD to prove myself….. I refused too! I was there to do a job to the best of my abilities - it took me around the world. My ‘Click’ came when I was asked to be interviewed for a woman’s lifestyle magazine where women working in unusual jobs were doing well within their profession. A woman journalist interviewed and photographed me at work – in 2005 she did a follow up interview. Now there are just as many women as men in the profession! LOL!

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by Quintease

I'm not so sure. I consider myself a feminist, yet just the other day I had a rant on a blog about 'man-hating' feminists getting involved in the sex worker movement - in that I don't think their involvement is appropriate. How can any woman who hates men be involved in any movement that involves women interacting with men, loving men or transitioning to be men?

The trouble with feminism that is against men rather than for women, is that it is often Louder than regular feminism and thus becomes the 'face' of feminism. So part of MY feminism is rejecting the oppression of women by other women.

I think that people getting involved in the sex worker movement is a good thing. I trust that good leadership will assist participants in the struggle to examine the 'isms' and prejudices they came to to the movement with. I trust the people in the movement will then help the others experience the power of coalition-building and movements made of true allies. I think people can evolve away from hate.

Justice work is messy and discouraging, and perfection can never be a standard of measurement. As someone who works against oppression, I find it more helpful to help move people forward from where they are. Nobody's perfect. Everyone has something to contribute.

To underscore this point, i will speak to the topic of this thread. I was raised in, and still exist in a very ugly and dangerous white working-class culture of racist, sexist, xenophobic people. I was a gifted athlete in a world where only boys did sports, yet I was better at almost every sport than any boy. My parents and I had to navigate a world where it was dangerous simply because I was gifted. They struggled with balancing their pride in me with their concern for my safety. It was the 70s but the evolution we went through wasn't because of "women's lib" or any "wave" of feminism. We evolved because of parents' love for their daughter.

So that's where I come from, and I grew into a person who cares deeply about justice. Do I know everything I'm supposed to? Far from it. Have I read theory and been at the right events? Hell no. I've been playing ball and chasing women with my free time. I do not, however, feel that this makes me less of a feminist. Nor do I feel like this excuses me from attending demonstrations, volunteering at feminist events, and speaking up in word and deed when i experience or witness sexism. For example.

I'm not perfect. I am a feminist. For me this means that every child should be encouraged to follow their dreams regardless of how any feature about them has been historically perceived.

[Random]

I think I just found out that I have feminist leanings...

I work with a couple of women who will not do grunge work. They say it's men's work...

I was stocking boxes of chill packs the other day when one of them told me to leave it for *inset male co workers name*. I looked at her and said bluntly. *If I want to make the same wage as men, then I have to be willing to do the same work*.

You can't have it both ways IMO...

I won't take out the trash at home... THAT'S my partners job, but I'll take it out at work....

[Bad_boi]

Originally Posted by Yellow band

Hey Bad_Boi....I am going to ask you to elaborate a little further (please)
on the part I changed to red. I find it confusing. Anti woman sentiment. Thank you.

What I mean by that is the feminists that get pissed off for no good reason. If I am polite to a feminist woman, they perceive it incorrectly. I am being nice because I am nice. It has nothing to do with me patronizing or thinking a woman is weak. I know women are capable. The fact of the matter is people are people and should be treated equally.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Bad_boi

What I mean by that is the feminists that get pissed off for no good reason. If I am polite to a feminist woman, they perceive it incorrectly. I am being nice because I am nice. It has nothing to do with me patronizing or thinking a woman is weak. I know women are capable. The fact of the matter is people are people and should be treated equally.

Bad_boi- Why do you assume that a)When a woman is impolite to you that it has something to do with them being a feminist? b)That you are not a feminist if you believe that women and men should be treated equally? (See the definition of 'feminist' as posted by Anya above.)

As weatherboi wrote, it's extremely IMPOLITE of you to come into a thread about when we knew we were feminists and gratuitously trash feminists and feminism.

You continue to defend your offensive post. Perhaps something else you're doing or saying is pissing off those feminists, (exactly the way you pissed off THIS feminist), not the fact that you're holding the door.

[Dominique]

Originally Posted by Bad_boi

What I mean by that is the feminists that get pissed off for no good reason. If I am polite to a feminist woman, they perceive it incorrectly. I am being nice because I am nice. It has nothing to do with me patronizing or thinking a woman is weak. I know women are capable. The fact of the matter is people are people and should be treated equally.

Thanks for coming back and answering. I agree, people are people and always will be. Frustrating sometimes. How do you readily Identify a feminist if you are being nice and treating people equally? Or is that How you Identify a feminist? They object? (I know previously you said some, we will stick with some).

[persiphone]

i was raised in an all female household by a hippie feminist mom, and one very pissed off grandmother. we lived in the ghetto and all the kids on my street were girls, but i went to a christian private school, so there was a strange dichotomy i grew up with. at home, i could grow up and be anything i wanted. at school, i was to grow up to be a good and obedient christian wife and have babies. clearly, that didn't happen! lol!

however, my AHAA! moment happened when i was 17. i was in DC visiting a boyfriend in the air force at the time and we happend to be on the mall at the same time a major NOW march on the mall was happening. it was the most amazing thing i'd ever seen. there were 100,000 women in that march and the banners were so big that it took 20 women across to hold them. i still get goosebumps thinking about it. i stood there for an hour or more waiting for them to pass. and they were so loud! i really felt those women move through me. i've been true to the cause ever since.

i get sad sometimes that there is strife about feminism in the b/f community. i hear it often brought up that feminists pushed back hard on the b/f community and i'm both sad it happened and sad that there is a stigma about feminists that exists today because of it.