The Internet and the Death of Privacy

[Nat]

I remember the days when deleting an account or a blog was enough to disappear it from the Internet, but it appears those days are at a close. I was listening to a podcast regarding doctor/therapist/patient privacy on the Internet and how providers and patients both often google each other now- whether or not they disclose their findings, the things they read can affect diagnoses.

In the book 1984, George Orwell imagined a world where the government watched each person's every move. Instead, many of us have put our lives - even very personal parts of our personal lives - into a permanent record with a seemingly endless memory. Even in cases where the information can be deleted, the deep web searches can find it. Also there's the issue of Internet gossip and trolls who post damaging info on the internet about other people that can never really be erased.

So, here's a thread for discussion about the changing rules of Internet privacy.

And a little starter: have you googled yourself - your real name - and found that there is information out there about you that has the capacity to affect your future employment?

Have you found ways to combat it?

[Medusa]

This is a great thread

I have a lot to add here and will be back in just a bit.

[UofMfan]

Great thread.

I think privacy as we know it is quickly disappearing. New technology, this new generation, have blurred the line we (you know the general old we) have been using as a standard for decades.

Today people tweet their every move, no matter how personal or inconsequential it is. Facebook statuses let us all know what we and our "friends" are up to. We post pictures of our family and personal events without considering how these may affect future employment (or other) prospects. We posts pictures of ourselves that in the past we would have only shared with close friends when they came by to visit and we opened out photo albums.

I try to keep these things in mind, yet it is so easy to get caught up in the hoopla of it all. Share, share and share. It is like a major popularity contest at times. But I do try to keep my privacy settings in FB to the max, and although I post on here often, there is very little of my private life that you can read here and what you do read, I have chosen carefully to share.

Privacy is no longer defined by the standards I grep up with. Everyday I read something about how Facebook keeps pushing those standards so that by now it is hard to even know what privacy is. Of course Google and other sites are continuously gathering our personal information so we can be flooded by ads that are specifically targeted for us according to the information collected. Most sites do this, so it is becoming more difficult to 'surf" under the radar if you will.

The government does it, corporations do it, everyone is looking to tap into this plethora of information that most of the time we willingly supply to these sites.

If you Google something having to do with Butch/Femme or a topic discussed on here, you will see that particular discussion show up in your results. And yes, I have Googled myself, with my real name, and I am Ok with has come up so far. Of course the more time that passes and the more active I am online the more I need to check to see what is out there.

I try to combat it as best as I can by being diligent and careful when I am online. I am not always successful, and like I mentioned before, I get caught up on the frenzy of it all and I throw caution to the wind, sometimes.

[DapperButch]

Great thread, Nat.

I want to speak to the therapist issue (b/c I am one and this is a big concern of mine).

I googled myself not too long ago and found a section where my parents and sister's names were listed as relatives. I see that my address and also a picture of my house can be seen (even though my home number is unpublished).

My concern client wise is for their treatment (as you suggested). The reason therapists don't (or shouldn't) share too much about their personal lives is that the "stories" clients create in their minds about the therapist is useful fodder for their treatment. VERY useful fodder. It can tell them so much about themselves and their perceptions.

Additionally, depending upon the information one has on their therapist, even just a small tidbit, can create all kinds of assumptions about a therapist's belief system, which could make the client uncomfortable discussing certain topics if they fear judgement from the therapist. For example, if the google said I was Republican (which I am not), based on a person's perception of Republicans, people could assume all sorts of things (like that I am a conservative Christian, for example).

Anyway, it is disconcerting to say the least. I actually make lots of adjustments in my life due to my work (like not having my picture up on this site which I would like to have, not attending public events if I know a client will be there, I don't have a FaceBook account), so a little thing like google, sucks (especially since I already give up some things I wish I didn't have to in order to give my clients the best treatment I can).

Oh, and I have never googled a client. It feels intrusive.

(for that matter, I rarely google anyone for the same reason).

[Kobi]

I have googled myself before. I have a professional license which is public information, so that info is available. I have found some references to thank yous in books and articles from colleagues which I didnt expect to find.

Like Dapper, I too, have found a site that provides addresses and phone numbers, ages and persons in the household. That was disconcerting considering every address I have had since the 1970's was there.

I dont use fb or twitter or anything else that can blindside me with uninvited attention. After a few threats in child protection cases, I am extremely cautious using the net. It is too easy to track someone if you are so inclined.

I am also a compulsive cookie eraser after having ads specially tailored for me on certain web sites. That felt very bizarre to me.

After one too many crime shows, I am also very cautious when erasing things on my hard drive. I use secure deletion programs and regularly wipe the space as well. When I am totally bored, I have a program that will search the drive to see what info is still recoverable.

There is very little privacy left in the world and on the net without me leaving a digital footprint everywhere I go.

[EnderD_503]

Since I started using the internet I was always concerned about internet privacy.

Since you brought up Orwell, actually dystopian novels are always what comes to my mind when I think about privacy these days, whether on the internet or in real life. Call me paranoid, but I guess I've always just been really careful and at least in the "googling yourself" aspect, it has kind of paid off as far as maintaining my privacy. When I google my birth name, out of 6 or 7 pages of people that come up, only two refer to me, though unless the people knew my history directly they probably wouldn't know it. One is just an article in a newspaper about an award I received for my honours thesis, while the other is a post on a residence page site from my early university days (but because it's so old, when you click the link my comment doesn't even appear anywhere anymore, nor can you see my account apparently...so not too bad). On my chosen name there is nothing either. Like I said, maybe it's crazy paranoia, but I just don't like the idea of people around the world being able to track my info down just by knowing my name.

The only social media I use is twitter and I don't use my real name, so I'm not too concerned about it.

I do think it's crazy that people add their co-workers, bosses etc. to personal facebook pages or twitter. I've generally held that work life and personal life should not mix at all, as you never know when someone is going get offended about something you say or do on one of these pages and how it'll affect your life at work. Also, I think it causes a lot of friendships to go down the drain where people cause drama over something someone said on facebook. Recently a friend of mine was cussed out and "unfriended" by a long time friend of his on facebook for some incredibly stupid...and the situation probably wouldn't have spiralled out of control if it took place irl.

So in general, lack of privacy online has all sorts of negative ramifications. From google selling people's information, to your boss looking at your crazy drunken holiday pictures.

[Linus]

When I first got online (back in 1993/4) and learned about ways to delve into people's networks and such (kinda gray area stuff), I knew quickly that privacy didn't exist. It never does. In Canada, the expectation of keeping data safe is on the gov't and the businesses. In the US, it's more like a wild west feeling.

In both cases, it's up to an individual. I had long ago decided that the only thing that should appear on the Net are the things that someone could learn if they came up to me in person. Add to that my regular persistence at making sure that the computer I used to connect to the Net was secure and that my behaviour was limited to specific trusted sites and... it's all been good.

I've never had an identity compromise in all my time online. I have had fraudulent changes on credit cards due to taxi usage for work when they use the old fashioned credit card slips with the extra carbon in them.

[Medusa]

People should be super careful on the internet.

There are sites out there like the ones you all have been talking about that are basically clearing houses for people's personal (but legally public) data. You can ask for your information to be removed but I believe that has to be done on a yearly basis otherwise people can get your home address, your phone number, and any other number of things that they could use to be creepy with you.

There are people out there who have ZERO qualms about digging up your personal information and using it to try to intimidate you or fuck with you. I have encountered 2 such people in my time since owning this site and have had to have conversations with family members and my staff at work about possible communications from people who get off on fucking with others. Luckily, I have a super supportive boss and family and am not concerned about anyone being able to "soil" my name. (eyeroll intended)

The best thing to do is Google yourself, search different sites, etc. and start sending "remove me" requests to all of hte databases out there.
Also, try to never ever use your real name or indetifying email addresses on public forums. This is sometimes unavoidable as evidenced with Facebook but you can certainly turn off all of the search functions and lock down your information as much as possible

[Nat]

Some opt-out sites:

To request your information be removed from:

Peoplesmart.com
EmailFinder.com
FreePhoneTracer.com
PhoneDetective.com
Archives.com

http://www.peoplesmart.com/?_act=optout

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To remove yourself from whitepages.com

http://www.whitepages.com - search your name, click the "claim & edit" button and request to remove your information.

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To remove yourself from mylife

you can call 888-704-1900 and request to have your information removed

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To remove yourself from beenverified.com

you can try emailing support@beenverified.com and making a request - I have tried this and will update whether they honor it or not.

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The opt-out page for intellius.com requires an image of your driver's license with your photo and driver's license number blocked out:

http://www.intelius.com/optout.php

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To opt out of peoplefinders.com

you have to fill out this pdf http://www.peoplefinders.com/optout-form.pdf

and provide all your previous addresses and then mail the form to them.

I find this kinda scary because it gives them more info than they already have and I don't know if any of these sites can be trusted one bit.

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[UofMfan]

This is an article that shows how much your information is worth. At first you see .01 or .02 cents and think nothing of it, but like the article says, it adds up.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_861829.html

[moxie]

I am a therapist, like DapperButch. Because of that and my professional license being of public record, a lot of my information is available when you Google me. I have had past clients, both adult and child, try to get me to friend them (get me to look them up and friend them) on Facebook because they have tried and they can't find me (which I tell them no and explain why). I have the highest privacy settings on Facebook so that you can only see my picture and any of my personal information if you are my friend. The only picture I have on here anymore is the one in my profile, which you can only see if you are a member.

I have had a lot of friends make fun of me because of my "excessive" need for privacy. I have all of my mail (bills, etc) sent to a PO Box. Occasionally I give out my address for packages to be sent to my apartment but that is it. The only thing my physical address is listed on is my electric/gas and cable bill (because it has to be to get service but they still has PO Box as mailing address) and my driver's license. I do not even have my physical address listed with my employer. I've been like this since the late 90s.

As gar as Googling myself, yes, I have done it. I wanted to know what out there is about me. One of the "interesting" things I have found is a woman, with my same name, in the same general area where I grew up, was busted for prostitution. So, people from my past could think it was me as my last name is not common.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by puregrrl

I am a therapist, like DapperButch. Because of that and my professional license being of public record, a lot of my information is available when you Google me. I have had past clients, both adult and child, try to get me to friend them (get me to look them up and friend them) on Facebook because they have tried and they can't find me (which I tell them no and explain why). I have the highest privacy settings on Facebook so that you can only see my picture and any of my personal information if you are my friend. The only picture I have on here anymore is the one in my profile, which you can only see if you are a member.

I have had a lot of friends make fun of me because of my "excessive" need for privacy. I have all of my mail (bills, etc) sent to a PO Box. Occasionally I give out my address for packages to be sent to my apartment but that is it. The only thing my physical address is listed on is my electric/gas and cable bill (because it has to be to get service but they still has PO Box as mailing address) and my driver's license. I do not even have my physical address listed with my employer. I've been like this since the late 90s.

As gar as Googling myself, yes, I have done it. I wanted to know what out there is about me. One of the "interesting" things I have found is a woman, with my same name, in the same general area where I grew up, was busted for prostitution. So, people from my past could think it was me as my last name is not common.

As a retired psychotherapist, I so understand this! Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries! Since my last clinical license that last practiced under was a combination of my LTR patner's and mine, I don't worry so much. No one here or on any social site I am on knows this. I never changed them. Close to retireing, so I didn't feel the need to.

The internet has brought so many great things- but as someone that has been the victim of computer and identity theft and fraud- it can be a double sided sword. Unfortunately, there are people out there with criminal intentions.

I don't list an address in the phone book and use my first and middle initials.

Sometimes I am amazed at people that work in publically funded professions are not more careful with this stuff. These days, I wouldn't trust that my job was safe even if I had a union to go to. Employers can do a lot that we have no way of knowing about. Finding medical, including mental health records has become far too easy in the age of the home computer- even with very strict laws to prevent this. Things that are a matter of public record are bad enough. I can't stand what real estate people can find out about people, for example.

[Medusa]

My old boss tried to friend me on Facebook last year. Needless to say, it was awkward when I had to explain to him that I prefer to keep my work life and personal life separate.

[Venus007]

I am doubly fortunate that my name is extremely common and that there is someone rather famous that shares my name. I enjoy being a needle in a hay stack. I believe that is the new hiding to be invisible in plain sight.

I have been involved with the internet since somewhere in the mid 80s, (remember Compu-Serve), and I feel relatively safe online. It is like living in a bad neighborhood, there are just some things you have to pay attention to, some things you shouldn't do and other things that are just fine, I am very careful to keep the disparate parts of my life, well, disparate. I am aware of my public image and the requirement of having a truly public image and a more covert public image as well as my true personal life. My true personal life is shielded online due to my many millions of name sakes.

[Gayla]

In real life, I'm all over the Internet. My name is rather unique and most all of the google results for my name are actually me.

The others are a school teacher on the east coast who is the only other person I've found that shares my first and last name. (We also share a rewards club membership at Best Buy because every time one of us tries to get a new one, they say we already have one. We keep in touch via email and it's one of the oddest online friendships I've ever made online.)

I do google myself often and spend a fair bit of time on a regular basis working on my SEO. Because so much of my business depends on the Internet, I do have to be more careful these days about what I do online using my real name. In the past, I haven't worried too much about it and there was a point where googling (well, yahooing back then) my name showed everything from leather community stuff to work stuff. I've gotten most of it cleaned up but after the first 3 or 4 pages there is some non real estate stuff that still shows up. For most of the social stuff I do, I've either set things to the highest privacy levels so they don't show up in search results or I've completely changed the names that I use. Since I expect, and often request, that my clients google me at some point, I have to make sure that they only see what I want them to see.

I participate in some "high risk" activities online. Primarily this is related to gaming so I'm on constant alert for everything from viruses to keyloggers and other types of malware. I probably worry more about this than anything else when it comes to the stuff I do online. I would be very sad if my little pink haired gnome got hacked!

[Diva]

Evidently, I'm an attorney in Fayetteville who is also an interior designer...and I guess I perform meditative music on Pandora, too.



(Thankfully, I do not use my full legal name in my life!)

[Medusa]

I'd like to hear folk's thoughts about the "Who visited my profile" feature here.

We have that feature as a fun way to see who's looking. It was meant as a "calling card" to say "Hey, Ebon stopped by your profile today!"

We have talked a couple of times about turning the feature completely off when frustrated with complaints like "I feel unsafe that so-and-so looked at my profile".

What do you think? Would you rather know who visited your profile or would you rather wonder about it?

My thought has always been that whatever is in your profile on this site is fairly "public" info, that there isn't really a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Curious what others think!

[The_Lady_Snow]

Either way sometimes I like to cruise profiles it let's you get to know people a little...

Either way it's no biggie. Thanks for even asking!

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by puregrrl

I am a therapist, like DapperButch. snip

The only picture I have on here anymore is the one in my profile, which you can only see if you are a member.

I have had a lot of friends make fun of me because of my "excessive" need for privacy...

Yes. I am such a freak that I didn't even use my dog's real name on his picture here. It is an uncommon name and the one thing a handful of clients know about me is that I have a dog... some of them have asked his name.

[Gentle Tiger]

I like the feature but I wouldn't lose sleep if it were gone.

I can see how someone might not like someone being able to just pop in. Maybe have it as optional feature. And people decide if they want it or not.