It Hurts Me.

[Firedance]

As a Femme, I love Butches, and I LOVE Butches. But right now I have a bone to pick with some of you.

You are here. You know, we Femme's are only truly seen by those of us who can hear the music of, "The Dance". We are both, inexplicably more fully alive when in the presence of the other, even if we are strangers, even if there is no attraction, and yes, even if we are simply friends.

I can handle being invisible. I have coming out to strangers down to an art form. I have a 30 second, two minute, and 20 minute version of my own gender-education/dynamic-education talk that I deliver to strangers, acquaintances, and friends regularly.

When a Butch walks in the room a part of me can relax. I know there is one person in the room that I don't have to explain my identity to. One person I don't have to educate. One person that can See Me.

Except...

Maybe you don't.


I am sick of Butches who say to me;

"Hey, why don't you go use your charms and get us ___(insert object here)___."

or,

"Hey go work your magic so we don't have to wait."

or,

"Go flirt with that guy so we can get out of here".


No.
No, No, No, and Hell No!


I spend all day every day, verbally and non-verbally telling cis-guys their advances are not welcome. I am friendly, funny, polite, and very, very, firm. I expend great amounts of energy simply asserting my Identity every day and I will not sell out my sexuality or my identity to get you an extra piece of toast!


Yes I know that I will be served more quickly and kindly pretty much everywhere. This is why I step up and handle interactions with ignorant/biased strangers often. I know how hard life is as a Butch and so I happily ease the way when I can. I've got your back. When your friend is taking your picture and tells you to, "Act like a girl. Damn it!" I respond, "She is!" (for my female ID'ed friends). When a stranger looks at you and sneers. I catch their eye and raise my eyebrow, and the smirk on my face let's them know they don't know you, and they have no idea what they are missing out on. In a million other way's I've got your back.

So this is your part of The Dance... Don't ask me to deny who I am. Don't ask me to throw away the identity that I work so diligently to affirm in a world that keeps telling me I doesn't exist. Don't casually, thoughtlessly, dismiss my identity, and dishonor me by implying that my identity is less real than yours, simply because I can "pass" as straight!

I can handle coming out a dozen times a week. I can educate people all week long.

But you?
When YOU don't see me?
That hurts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To all the Butches who have never, and would never, think of saying such things to a Femme; I thank you. Your strength and respect is what keeps The Dance alive for me.

~Fire.

[JAGG]

Yikes! Sorry that happened to you. I can see why that would tick a person off.

[thedivahrrrself]

I can relate, Fire, and thank you for saying it.

"I can handle being invisible. I have coming out to strangers down to an art form. I have a 30 second, two minute, and 20 minute version of my own gender-education/dynamic-education talk that I deliver to strangers, acquaintances, and friends regularly. "

This made me laugh out loud, because I have the same 3 versions, depending on the audience!

[Apocalipstic]

Sorry this happens to you FD! I have had it happen, but not in a long while. The closer I get to 50, the less I am asked to use my cleavage to get things. Not sure if its respect of my age, or that my Butch/Trans friends know better.

[Firedance]

Thanks Jagg.

Honestly the first time it happened it shocked me a little.

The 12th time it happened by the 6th Butch. I had to sit down and write to figure out for myself exactly why it bugged me so much.

And thank you too ladies. It has happened often enough I knew I wasn't the only one who has experienced it!

[The_Lady_Snow]

It sucks that these particular butches chose to pimp you out for amenities.

It's pretty gross and you should copy that eloquent fuck you that you shared with us mail it so they know not to do that shit with you or ANY woman again!

[JAGG]

I just thought of something firegal. I will probably get slammed for this but if it ever happens again, turn to the butch who said it and say, you're a WOMEN you go do it yourself. Bet that would crack their face.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by JAGG

I just thought of something firegal. I will probably get slammed for this but if it ever happens again, turn to the butch who said it and say, you're a WOMEN you go do it yourself. Bet that would crack their face.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander!


In other words use your OWN body to get chu some toast!

[Turtle]

To be seen or not to be seen -

Yes, it hurts when we are not seen…and it strikes extra deep when we think the other person should know.

And none of us were born knowing all of this complicated identity business, we learn about it and work through it as we develop into more full wonderful human beings until the day each of us dies…that’s part of what I find so amazing…we keep learning until the moment we die (and maybe even after).

The Planet is wonderful for being a place where we can all mash this stuff around, hearing other ideas, as we figure out what is best for ourselves.

Do I have my moments when I get pissed off or frustrated at other people's unknowingness – yes…and I try to remind myself of the times I have said something dumb or hurtful…I still think nasty things, less often than I used to, but a lot of me moving better in interactions with others has to do with slowing down in my reactions.

I much more appreciate a kind explanation of how I fucked up rather than getting smacked upside the head. I used jump up in people’s shit, but I think the learning and behavior change is more important than the reprimand, so I’ve gone gentle in hope of progress.

I have had friends who would bat their eyelashes to get what they want…or act dumb…or wiggle body parts. I’ve ALWAYS wanted stuff and to be what I consider “boy”…but maybe at different times in my life I have chosen to present as more strongly male and and have been overweight to pre-deflect cis-male judgments, advances, and assumed liberties.

And – there is a certain freedom in an out presentation – this is who I am, like me or not…and some totally natural presentations are not readable as a stereotype – yes? Complicated shit.

Is it nice to be “read” – by the right people, yes. What is that? I think it is being “known” – which includes not having to explain who you are. Does it hurt extra deep when someone you think knows you fucks up? Yes.

I give thanks for the learning and for all the ways people have had my back…and I try to be there for other people in the learning and because we all have needed or will need someone to stick up for us.

Thank you for The Dance, Fire

[girl_dee]

Sure does make us appreciate people who treat us with respect

at my former job i worked with a ton of men, i got hit on at times, but once i came out i got hit on 10 times as much and not in a good way.

Straight, gay or indifferent disrespect is never ok!

[Rockinonahigh]

I'm so sorry you had to deal with people like this,it's wrong,bad manners and dosent show any type of class act.I promis there are butches who are careing and thoughtful and will treat a lady right.

[Apocalipstic]

I think Turtle has it right though, we have to teach people how we want to be treated, we can't expect all Butches to just know how we want to be treated...especially when its so different from Femme to Femme.

I know Femmes who LOVE to be asked to use their beauty or cleavage to get stuff done, just as I know plenty of Butches who would never ask.

We all are different and need different things from each other.

[JAGG]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

What's good for the goose is good for the gander!


In other words use your OWN body to get chu some toast!

That's right, if you want to deny who she is, then she should deny who you are.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

I think Turtle has it right though, we have to teach people how we want to be treated, we can't expect all Butches to just know how we want to be treated...especially when its so different from Femme to Femme.

I know Femmes who LOVE to be asked to use their beauty or cleavage to get stuff done, just as I know plenty of Butches who would never ask.

We all are different and need different things from each other.

I guess as a female bodied person I expect those like me or have the same herstory to NOT super impose binary shenanigans on me.

One no, one explanation should be enough, common courtesy should BE expected it doesn't take rocket science to figure out what's right and what's wrong.

[Beloved]

Originally Posted by thedivahrrrself

I can relate, Fire, and thank you for saying it.

"I can handle being invisible. I have coming out to strangers down to an art form. I have a 30 second, two minute, and 20 minute version of my own gender-education/dynamic-education talk that I deliver to strangers, acquaintances, and friends regularly. "

This made me laugh out loud, because I have the same 3 versions, depending on the audience!

I'd like to hear all of these, please! Or does it need it's own thread?

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I guess as a female bodied person I expect those like me or have the same herstory to NOT super impose binary shenanigans on me.

One no, one explanation should be enough, common courtesy should BE expected it doesn't take rocket science to figure out what's right and what's wrong.

LMAO, yeah...one would hope.
and no one does that to me any more.
Not sure if its my age, or just that they know better now after trying it once.

I totally agree that common courtesy should be expected, but not everyone learned it growing up and must be taught how to act now. (around Me, if they want to be around Me lol)

[JAGG]

Originally Posted by Beloved

I'd like to hear all of these, please! Or does it need it's own thread?

Please don't encourage her..... you will create a monster. Lol

[thedivahrrrself]

Originally Posted by JAGG

Please don't encourage her..... you will create a monster. Lol

LOL Yes, JAGG knows it's hard to pull me down from a soapbox!!



That would be a good thread for the Femme Zone! We all have to be experts in coming out, over and over again, because we are somewhat invisible. I used to don uber-short hair just to try to look more "lesbian" LOL It still didn't work.

[Jess]

Firedance,
Nice to meet you and great post. This is one aspect of the dynamics between butch and femme that I don't think I have seen discussed here or any other b/f forum I have read. So.. thanks!

I tend to agree with a part of Apoc's post , in the different expectations/ behaviors from butch to butch or femme to femme. It never excuses bad behavior or unpracticed manners, however, it can be a long slow walk through a hot coal bed sometimes trying to navigate individuals based on generalizations.

I can not tell you how many femme's I have spoken to who will tell you flat out that they use those "charms" as currency. I think based on that, some butches may feel it is "ok" to ask them to use it for whatever seeming advantage it may offer in a given situation. ( The "extra toast" cracked me the hell up, btw.. dude, here's a quarter.. git sum) I may even at some point may have asked my girl to deal with a mechanic or something, because yes, usually my girl/ partner is better received than I am, especially in very testosterone laden spaces. I can guarantee, it was never for some extra toast or what have you.

I appreciate this topic. I think the nuances of our "dance" are what takes a hokey-pokey to a tango. They will also let us know when we may just be dancing to a different beat. Discussions like this, when dealt with positively can be very thought provoking and sometimes, enlightening for folks who may have never seen that behavior as "wrong", due to cultural differences, whatever. It may have never dawned upon them.

Again, thank you

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by thedivahrrrself

LOL Yes, JAGG knows it's hard to pull me down from a soapbox!!



That would be a good thread for the Femme Zone! We all have to be experts in coming out, over and over again, because we are somewhat invisible. I used to don uber-short hair just to try to look more "lesbian" LOL It still didn't work.

Showing up with a BullDyke is the only thing that really says it for me. I am not, and I repeat not. wearing. rainbow. earrings.

I really don't explain much any more....but when I do, its "pass the salsa, I'm a Lesbian". If they ask why Butches rather than bio men? I ask how graphic they want my reply to be.