BASEBALL!

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Kobi

LOL. I picked me up some tasty Cubs. Um, who is there on the White Sox to lust after?

Completely Useless By September? No thanks I've been to a few games. The park smells like a urinal and you live on constant fear of cement hitting you in the head as it falls off of the building, not to mention the crappy product they put on the field year after year. They have a mascot goat named Wrigley this year, they think it's going to help. Maybe mowing the lawn but little else.

As for the White Sox, I wouldn't say there was anything to lust over. You can't go wrong with Paul Konerko who's batting a healthy .345 and 6 HR this year.

Then there is my personal fav, the Polish Prince, A.J. Pierzynski who is batting .275 this year with 5 HR. Funny thing about this guy. He's the guy that you absolutely cannot stand if he is playing against you but do not want to be without when he is on your team. I've seen a lot of guys play over the years and never one as smart as this guy is. He knows every friggin' rule in baseball regardless of how obsecure and uses it well to the team's advantage. I liked fisk when we had him behind the plate, but I like this guy a lot better.

How about Ramirez at shortstop? I liked him better at second but he is holding his own. I guess you wouldn't want him if you have Castro from the Cubs. I'd probably go with Castro too. I dunno, they could be a good short-second combo.

The Sox are doing amazingly well this year particularly after they were written off before spring training ever started. I'm glad to be rid of Ozzie (I know his son and the papers were right, the kid is a complete tool) and hope now that the media circus went south the team will settle in and get down to business.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

Completely Useless By September? No thanks I've been to a few games. The park smells like a urinal and you live on constant fear of cement hitting you in the head as it falls off of the building, not to mention the crappy product they put on the field year after year. They have a mascot goat named Wrigley this year, they think it's going to help. Maybe mowing the lawn but little else.

As for the White Sox, I wouldn't say there was anything to lust over. You can't go wrong with Paul Konerko who's batting a healthy .345 and 6 HR this year.

Then there is my personal fav, the Polish Prince, A.J. Pierzynski who is batting .275 this year with 5 HR. Funny thing about this guy. He's the guy that you absolutely cannot stand if he is playing against you but do not want to be without when he is on your team. I've seen a lot of guys play over the years and never one as smart as this guy is. He knows every friggin' rule in baseball regardless of how obsecure and uses it well to the team's advantage. I liked fisk when we had him behind the plate, but I like this guy a lot better.

How about Ramirez at shortstop? I liked him better at second but he is holding his own. I guess you wouldn't want him if you have Castro from the Cubs. I'd probably go with Castro too. I dunno, they could be a good short-second combo.

The Sox are doing amazingly well this year particularly after they were written off before spring training ever started. I'm glad to be rid of Ozzie (I know his son and the papers were right, the kid is a complete tool) and hope now that the media circus went south the team will settle in and get down to business.

Not a Cubs fan I see LOL. I have Castro and LaHair and am satisfied with both. Have Pedroia at 2B so middle infield is good. Have Votto at 1B - hoping his power will come around.

I hear you on Pierzynski. Always had him as a second catcher but someone scoffed him up before me.

Need a solid 3B but nothing on the wires worth trading for.

Gawd, I forgot you had Ozzie to contend with. Congrats on freeing yourself from the Ozziedrama. Weird lil man.

BTW, you stole Fisk from us. Not that I am still stinging from that or anything.

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Not a Cubs fan I see LOL. I have Castro and LaHair and am satisfied with both. Have Pedroia at 2B so middle infield is good. Have Votto at 1B - hoping his power will come around.

I hear you on Pierzynski. Always had him as a second catcher but someone scoffed him up before me.

Need a solid 3B but nothing on the wires worth trading for.

Gawd, I forgot you had Ozzie to contend with. Congrats on freeing yourself from the Ozziedrama. Weird lil man.

BTW, you stole Fisk from us. Not that I am still stinging from that or anything.

Don't look for a decent 3rd basemen on our team. Joe Crede is long gone....along with Aaron Rowand, Jon Garland, (dammit) Mark Buehrle, and a host of others. Seems like every time I turn a game on I see someone new and am saying to myself "Who's that fucking guy?"

Speaking of thefts my friend, how did that one of Bil Buckner work out for ya? Oh......wait. Sorry man I couldn't resist.
l

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

Don't look for a decent 3rd basemen on our team. Joe Crede is long gone....along with Aaron Rowand, Jon Garland, (dammit) Mark Buehrle, and a host of others. Seems like every time I turn a game on I see someone new and am saying to myself "Who's that fucking guy?"

Speaking of thefts my friend, how did that one of Bil Buckner work out for ya? Oh......wait. Sorry man I couldn't resist.
l

Oh yeah, I forgot about Buckner. LOL. Think you got us back for that one when the ball went thru his legs costing us the World Series. Pretty tuff being known as the guy who lost the series for the Sox.

Am familiar with wtf is that guy. Seems the entire pitching staff and outfield is a mystery to me.

Kind of thankful I dont get the channels the games are on. Saves me a few headaches.

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Kind of thankful I dont get the channels the games are on. Saves me a few headaches.

Well looking at your division it's kind of nice to see Baltimore on top. They've always had a team of pretty nice guys and it could be one of those underdog feel good stories of the year if it continues. I would not expect to see Toronto gain anymore ground this year. The Yankess always start out near the bottom of the pack and move their way up until they are under full steam come September. You guys have a lot of work to do if you are going to make a decent showing of this year.

Interesting note - Boston tried to get Billy Beane (OAK -Moneyball) as a GM for 12.5M in '02. He said no thank you. They then turned to Theo Epstein (who was only 28 yrs old at the time) and he used the same principles as Beane (it has a name - Sabermetrics) and that's how they ended up the improbable heros of '04.

Boston has the same pathetic rabid fan devotion that the Cubs have. I believe that this is ultimately their downfall as well. What I don't get is that your payroll is the 3rd largest (behind, of course, the Yankees and then Philly)in baseball. So everyone is getting ripped off over there. When the White Sox quit trying (note I said quit trying and not simply losing) we just stop going to the games. I don't understand why you (Boston fans) and more so, my less enlightened brethren on the north side, continue to support teams that don't even try.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

Well looking at your division it's kind of nice to see Baltimore on top. They've always had a team of pretty nice guys and it could be one of those underdog feel good stories of the year if it continues. I would not expect to see Toronto gain anymore ground this year. The Yankess always start out near the bottom of the pack and move their way up until they are under full steam come September. You guys have a lot of work to do if you are going to make a decent showing of this year.

Interesting note - Boston tried to get Billy Beane (OAK -Moneyball) as a GM for 12.5M in '02. He said no thank you. They then turned to Theo Epstein (who was only 28 yrs old at the time) and he used the same principles as Beane (it has a name - Sabermetrics) and that's how they ended up the improbable heros of '04.

Boston has the same pathetic rabid fan devotion that the Cubs have. I believe that this is ultimately their downfall as well. What I don't get is that your payroll is the 3rd largest (behind, of course, the Yankees and then Philly)in baseball. So everyone is getting ripped off over there. When the White Sox quit trying (note I said quit trying and not simply losing) we just stop going to the games. I don't understand why you (Boston fans) and more so, my less enlightened brethren on the north side, continue to support teams that don't even try.

Beane and Epstein might have had similar philosophies on money management way back when. But Beane never had the money to work with. He had to improvise to get the best value for the few bucks he had. He used a different method of statistical analysis to evaluate players potential, using different methods of probability to gauge a players attributes and picking those who would fill the holes while not breaking his meager budget. He made many a career by showcasing their talents in new ways. And, he lost those players to big budget teams in the end.

Theo had a heck of a bankroll to work with and increased it with advertising as well as making "things" the official Red Sox favorite....ice cream, cheese snacks, hospitals, mri providers, etc all offical Red Sox "supporters" paying big bucks for the privilege of the designation.

But, Theo, imo, got lost in the money maze trying to capture more titles. He became bolder and bolder on questionable players i.e. DiceK, Lackey, Drew, Crawford, and had a thing for going after past their prime pitchers coming off major arm surgery. He spent a fortune on people who just didnt and arent performing well enough to justify the incredible salaries they are being paid.

And, he got himself sucked into the Cashman bidding theatrics way too many times, finding himself holding the bag on contracts for underperforming players while Cashman cashed in on dependable players who made a difference. Me thinks Theo got a little too impressed with himself.

Pathetic rabid fan devotion? We differ there. It is not pathetic nor rabid to me. It is part of being a fan, in good times and in bad, when they do well and when they suck the big one.

If you only support a team that is doing well, are you a fan of the team or a fan of winning?

[girl_dee]

Because sometimes a team what keeps things alive. i was a NOLA Saints fan my entire life, Red Sox too, sometimes people need something to believe in. The Saints took over 45 years to just make it past round one of the playoffs, still the were our team. Win or lose we love em.....i'm no fair weather fan.

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Pathetic rabid fan devotion? We differ there. It is not pathetic nor rabid to me. It is part of being a fan, in good times and in bad, when they do well and when they suck the big one.

If you only support a team that is doing well, are you a fan of the team or a fan of winning?

This is why I noted specifically a difference between a team that loses and a team that does not try. I'm blessed in my life to have seen a team that I love win the World Series and am aware of fans that cannot (most notably my neighbors to the north who have suffered through 100 years of dismal heartache.) I am also aware that this, for White Sox fans, may never happen again (during my lifetime). I've sat through games where it was literally sleeting and others so hot and the air still it was nearly unbearable and they LOST. That does not stop me from coming back.

What WOULD stop me is if I saw a bunch of guys on the field that didn't give a crap because win or lose they are still getting a paycheck, and/or an ownership or team management that did not care about the players or the fans. Ozzie was headed in this direction with the team and we are blessed to be rid of him.

Chicago experianced this firsthand during the 1919 Black Sox scandal. Charlie Comiskey was for underpaying his players for years. At that time, players either had to take the salary they were offered, or couldn't play in the majors. They were property of their original team, and no other team was allowed to sign them. He cheated them out of their bonuses and pay that they were due so they said the hell with it. (I am of the firm belief that neither Shoeless Joe Jackson or Buck Weaver had a part in this thing but were convicted nonetheless)

What I mean by pathetic and rabid is the fan that allows the team to take their money, treat them like shit, and keeps coming back. To quote the 2005 film Fever Pitch;

"You love the Red Sox, but have they ever loved you back?"

If the answer is no it's time to consider a break-up