So what does being Bisexual, mean to you ?

[Random]

Originally Posted by betenoire

If Caroline loses her sex drive (because she was depressed, because she had had a hysterectomy, because because because) and Jonathan decides to cheat on her (With Judith or Samuel or Blake) because his sexual needs are not being met - I certainly hope that everybody who thinks I am mean today because I say there is no set of circumstances that justifies cheating remembers to dote on Jonathan and be understanding.

I don't think you are mean Potty... I think you are right...

For me cheating IS one of the most self centered and selfish thing one can do to your partner... It was when I cheated and it was when I was cheated on...

When you cheat, you TAKE someones choice away from them... You withhold information that they need to make a decision on if they want to be with you...

Pretty well, you don't want to pay for what you want... You don't want to have to deal with the fall out of what your desires are. It's not so much that you don't want to hurt your partner.. (because if you really didn't want to hurt them, then you wouldn't cheat) It's you don't want to have to deal with the reaction that your partner is going to have from your decision.

Cheating is wrong... period... We know it when we do it and we know it when it's done to us.. If it wasn't wrong then it wouldn't feel so bad...

If your partner can't meet your needs then you need to talk and GIVE them the choice... Don't treat them like a child and you know what's best for them.... Treat them like a mother fucking adult and let them decided if they want to be with you in an open relationship or what ever arrangement works so both parties get their needs met as well as possible..

I wasn't going to post in this thread because I knew I would get on my soap box again and start preaching cause I am Judgy McJudgeson on this subject, but I couldn't let Potty think that she was alone or that she was being mean...

[SecretAgentMa'am]

Originally Posted by betenoire

It's totally irrational and I know that now, but I really believed for a long time that everybody is bisexual. I got over it a few years ago, but there you have it.

Me, too. I think most people who are bisexual go through a period of that. My personal theory is that we all need to feel like we're not alone, and so we try to convince ourselves and everyone around us that we're *really* in the majority, even though it looks like we're not.

My "almost everyone is bi" phase started after I learned about the Kinsey Scale. I figured that there were a very small percentage of people who were actually a Kinsey 0 or a Kinsey 6, and every single point between, from 0.01 to 5.99, meant that the person was bisexual, whether they were willing to admit to it or not. Hell, I thought if a woman who identified as a lesbian had ever even so much as kissed a man and not been totally grossed out by it, then that woman was actually bisexual. Thankfully, that phase was a long time ago and really short lived.

Now the truth: I am more sexually attracted to men than I am to women. However, I am more emotionally attracted to women than I am to men. So it's complicated. It's really complicated.

Me too, sometimes. I'll barely even think about men sexually for days or weeks at a time, then suddenly start practically drooling over every cute boy I pass on the street. I think I might be more attracted to men when I'm ovulating or something, but I don't have a period anymore, so I don't really know when I'm ovulating to be able to pay attention and track it. My sexual attraction to women other than my wife is less intense, but a lot more steady.

I have slept with more women than men. Not a tonne more, but more. I haven't had a "relationship" with a man since I was in freaking HIGHSCHOOL, but I clearly have slept with them since then. Since adulthood all of my "steadies" have been women. Probably I'm better at having actual relationships with women than with men because I just in general find women better company. Or possibly it's just turned out that way because I know way more women than I know men.

I'm exactly the opposite here. I've been with *way* more men. Like, literally 5 times as many. Mostly because men are so much easier. Not to have relationships with (my romantic relationships with men were almost always difficult and not very satisfying emotionally), but when I just wanted to have some no-strings sex when I was single. If I was in the mood but not in a relationship, I had no women I knew that I could call and I was never even once successful at picking someone up in a bar. I had at least half a dozen male friends, though, who I could call and they'd come right over. So easy.

I would never cheat. That's not to say I'm perfect - I'm not. Do I think dirty thoughts about people other than my spouse? You're damn right I do! I don't think that's bad or abnormal so long as I never -do- anything about it - and of course I wouldn't.

I agree. I think it's human nature to look and fantasize, and I don't see any problem with that.

(By the way: I irrationally for no particular reason hate the word "pansexual". (Possibly because it has the word pan in it and I don't find that sexy at all.) I prefer the word bisexual because average people freaking know what it means, so why complicate things by not speaking in a language that people around you can understand?)

Me too, but I have a reason. I'm not saying that this is true of everyone who IDs as pansexual, but I've heard several different explanations from different people about how it differs from bisexuality. Every explanation I've heard has been some variation on either "I'm sexually attracted to people of multiple genders, but I don't want to be associated with those dirty bisexuals" or "I'm sexually attracted to men and women, and even those weird trans people who don't actually count as men or women. See how accepting and progressive I am?" which I find to be incredibly transphobic. I've also been told that the term bisexual supports the gender binary by saying that there are only two genders. I don't think that's the case at all.

Homosexual: Attracted to those who are the same as you
Heterosexual: Attracted to those who are different from you
Bisexual: Attracted to those who are both the same and different. This could be any number of gender variations.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by SecretAgentMa'am

I've also been told that the term bisexual supports the gender binary by saying that there are only two genders. I don't think that's the case at all.

Right, exactly. The "well you know there are more than two genders so that's why I am not bisexual!" partyline has always rubbed me the wrong way. Like they're explaining something to me that they presume is news to me.

[SecretAgentMa'am]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Been there, done that. In fact, my first real girlfriend was SUPER mean about the whole thing. I can't believe I stayed with that jerkface for nearly 2 years. (Okay, maybe I can. Sometimes I think I stuck it out to prove a point.)

None of the women I've been with have had a problem with my bisexuality, but my first relationship with a woman was a trainwreck. In hindsight, I really can't blame her for everything, though. My first relationship with a woman was as part of a triad with a married couple. It did not work out at all well. It was only after I'd finally left them for good (after the 4th breakup, when I finally refused to get back together yet again) that it occurred to me that if her husband had to go to great lengths to "convince her that it was okay to explore her bisexuality" that she most likely didn't really have any bisexuality *to* explore. She just had a husband who really, really wanted to have a lot of threesomes.

Okay now I am seriously all kittens and puppies about you and your wife. I'm -this- close to demanding a set of commemorative spoons. (I like happy people.)

Aww. I'm seriously considering doing actual holiday cards this year, complete with a family portrait of the two of us with the dog and all the cats and the lizard. If I actually get motivated enough to do it, I'll send you one.

I used to get that a lot from people who I was acquainted with (like, ran with the same circle of friends and went to the same parties but nothing more than that) if they saw me with a man. But nobody who actually knew me well has ever pulled that crap, thankfully. I think it would have really hurt me.

Yeah, I never heard that from anyone that I'm really close to. Just casual acquaintances who I didn't mind not seeing again if they couldn't act right.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by SecretAgentMa'am

None of the women I've been with have had a problem with my bisexuality, but my first relationship with a woman was a trainwreck. In hindsight, I really can't blame her for everything, though. My first relationship with a woman was as part of a triad with a married couple. It did not work out at all well. It was only after I'd finally left them for good (after the 4th breakup, when I finally refused to get back together yet again) that it occurred to me that if her husband had to go to great lengths to "convince her that it was okay to explore her bisexuality" that she most likely didn't really have any bisexuality *to* explore. She just had a husband who really, really wanted to have a lot of threesomes.

Oh sweet mercy, that sucks. I'm really sorry. That makes me sad/mad.

[SecretAgentMa'am]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Oh sweet mercy, that sucks. I'm really sorry. That makes me sad/mad.

Me too, but mostly for her. It was really emotionally difficult for me (I was attracted to him and liked him, but I was ass over teakettle for her and constantly trying to figure out what I was doing wrong since she said she loved me but often acted like she couldn't even stand to be in the same room with me), and after I came to that realization I started to feel like I hadn't been her girlfriend so much as an accomplice in her husband's campaign of sexual coercion. That was the last time I ever had a relationship with a couple, even though I did identify as polyamorous for a couple more years after that.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by SecretAgentMa'am

Me too, but mostly for her. It was really emotionally difficult for me (I was attracted to him and liked him, but I was ass over teakettle for her and constantly trying to figure out what I was doing wrong since she said she loved me but often acted like she couldn't even stand to be in the same room with me), and after I came to that realization I started to feel like I hadn't been her girlfriend so much as an accomplice in her husband's campaign of sexual coercion. That was the last time I ever had a relationship with a couple, even though I did identify as polyamorous for a couple more years after that.

*nod* absolutely. He sounds like a jerkface. I think that happens pretty frequently.

I've actually never been involved with a couple. I never wanted to be, it just always sounded a little complicated and negotiation-heavy. And I'm terrible at that sort of thing.

[SecretAgentMa'am]

Originally Posted by betenoire

*nod* absolutely. He sounds like a jerkface. I think that happens pretty frequently.

I've actually never been involved with a couple. I never wanted to be, it just always sounded a little complicated and negotiation-heavy. And I'm terrible at that sort of thing.

It was very much that. At one point, we had a huge dry erase calendar on their fridge to schedule when I was allowed to call, and when I would see either of them, and when they were going to have "primary couple time" during which I was not allowed to call or email or text either of them for any reason, and when I was supposed to get individual dates with each of them (which were almost always cancelled at the last minute), and when we were all supposed to have "stress-free alone time" which meant that she wanted time to herself during which she wasn't thinking about what he and I might be doing together without her.

And just about every time I saw one or both of them, I'd hear about another talk they'd had about our relationship when I wasn't there, and about the new rules they'd implemented without my input, which I was expected to follow. I'm really disgusted with myself now for putting up with it for as long as I did.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by SecretAgentMa'am

I'm really disgusted with myself now for putting up with it for as long as I did.

I don't think you need to be disgusted with yourself, honestly. I mean live and learn I guess. I don't know how old you were then (or how old you are now, now that I think about it) but I do know when we're younger it's harder to draw lines and we tend to be less aware of what we deserve.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by citybutch

There are ways I agree with you... kind of.

Laws are impartial. The legal thing to do in any given situation is black and white. Stealing for example is illegal... there is no difference in terms of the law that what you are doing is legal or illegal. A murderer is as much operating outside the law as someone who shoplifts. It is merely the level of punishment that will differ. Both a murderer and someone who steals is operating outside the law. What may be legal behavior may not be moral. What is moral behavior is always legal.

Ethical or moral behavior, on the other hand is far more blurred and far LESS black and white. What may be legal behavior may not (and sometimes IS not) ethical or moral behavior. Ethical/Moral behavior is behavior that we would want to be above and beyond legal behavior. For our society for some it is based on the Golden Rule. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you... or even higher, place the needs and concerns of others above your own. This can be open to interpretation. In fact, sometimes two different can come to different solutions based on one's moral universe or moral compass.

I agree with you to a point.

Laws may be impartial but often, quite often, their implementation is not.

So I guess we could do with a bit more equity on that front.

You said, “What may be legal behavior may not be moral. What is moral behavior is always legal.” How can that be? If you have legal behavior that is not moral then anyone engaging in that legal behavior is engaging in behavior that is immoral. Conversely if they refuse to engage in that legal behavior that is immoral then their behavior is illegal while being moral.

But even if you are only referring to the sometimes immoral behavior of some in the legal profession when you say legal behavior may not be moral, I’m still not sure that moral behavior is always legal. Laws are laws but they are not always moral. Hence disobeying them may be unlawful but not necessarily immoral. As a matter of fact I would go so far as to say in some cases disobeying certain laws is the only moral course of action. Certainly we can find historical precedent for this. I’m also equally sure with little effort we can find immoral laws on the books right now. Isn’t obeying immoral laws both legal and immoral? While disobeying them is both illegal and moral?

I suppose we can also look at motivation for certain crimes. Murder can never be the ethical choice, except when it is. And I guess we can all come up with scenarios where killing someone whose continued life would mean terrible things for so many is worth, at least, contemplating this moral dilemma. Stealing is illegal and someone who steals is operating outside the law, but when you need to feed your family what can you do. Who is morally bankrupt, the person who steals to feed his children or the society who promotes an ideology that would create situations where a human being must decide between becoming a criminal or allowing his children to go hungry?

I really believe that if the measuring stick a person uses to judge their actions and choices is equity, meaning the action or choice you are making is one you would be comfortable with everyone and anyone choosing, then you will most likely make a choice that has equal respect for the humanity of all.

However, I see quite clearly that my post has fallen far from the topic of this thread and I pledge that my next post here will be about bisexuality exclusively. I mean it will be about bisexuality only. My experience with it I mean.

[Cin]

I lived with a women for six years who identified as bisexual. She always said that she loved the person and not the gender. She was attracted to both men and women, although her attraction surrounding women was restricted to those with a masculine presentation. For her, it was simply about whoever she fell in love with. She preferred monogamy and did not need both men and women in her life sexually at the same time.

She left me for a man. This threw me. It also forced me to confront some deep-seated issues. I became a better person because of that experience. Then she became involved with another woman. Threw me again she did. She married that woman and is still with her today. But when she went back with a woman I discovered some more issues I needed to work through. Apparently I have a number of issues. Fortunately she provided me with a unique opportunity to examine some deep-seated prejudices. I had to decide if I was ready to move past some of my less than useful beliefs as well as some of the biases that I had not been completely aware I carried. I did grow a lot because of this experience.

I’m not saying that involvement with someone who is bisexual will afford you an opportunity to grow as a person. Although it will, as will any relationship. I’m just saying I am grateful for the experience I had with this person. I found her to be one of the most honorable people I ever met. Her bisexuality was just a feature of who she was, like being a femme, or like her blonde hair and her blue eyes, or her honesty.

On another note, I have no problem with negotiated poly or open relationships. I have been involved in both in my life. But I would have a big problem if an open or poly relationship was being, for lack of a better word, DONE to me without my knowledge. It hurts just thinking about it.

[*Anya*]

Honor and integrity are the opposite of cheating or dishonesty.

Regardless of the sex/gender/identity/orientation, for me, the golden rule applies.

Tell me what you need, where your head and heart are at and allow me the choice to decide if I can live with it and accept it. If we can not negotiate or are in completely different places, I need to be given the choice to stay or to go.

For my soul and ability to live with myself (or with another), it really is just that simple. I am flexible about virtually everything in my life. Relationships to work, must have that as a core.

Honesty and truth about fidelity are not negotiable. That is a value of mine that I will never apologize for.

[imperfect_cupcake]

interesting question. I named myself bisexual from the age of 14 until the age of 27. previously, I had been sexually active with both sexes since I was about 10 (not full on fucking, I mean sexual).

Bisexuality, to me, in my barb self-naming universe, means being able to have long term relationships and to be in love with two or more sexes.

Being able to love and romantically realate only one sex, but have sex with two, to me is not bisexuality. That's heteroflexible or homoflexible. A lot of people are that way.

When I first ID'd as a dyke, I was told, quite bluntly, I was a "lesbian ID'd bisexual" and I was "a dime a dozen" (cheap and common, that's me! ) which hurt, because it the close friend who had been telling me for about 5 years that I wasn't a bi, I was a dyke. I think she expected me to "go butch" |(she said she always saw me as a butch dyke wanting to break free. well, I wish I had flipper and wings too. oh well.) and when I went femtastic, she was pissed off.

I don't see it as a sex thing. that's a different classification in my head. people can be hetero or homo flexible to varying degrees. depends on how flexible you are lol. But bisexuality - in my dictionary - involves *presently* as in, right now, havign the capacity or capability to fall in love with men or women. I don't care if they could 25 years ago, many people's sexuality is not for life, many people's shift over time (NOT EVERYONES m'kay? Mine did. I was never latently lesbian. I fell in love - head over heels with men and women. Now I don't think I could if my life depended on it. And I have zero interest in men's willies except as an aesthetic in porn. But not in real life, ta - only the kind inhabited by dyke dick).

Many of my mates were shades of heteroflexible, and some genuinely bisexual. A few were homoflexible on the less flexible end of that scale (they once in a very blue moon had sex with a gay male friend or they liked to strap on and fuck men for the odd kink thrill in a kinkclub)

I personally like the divisions between homo/heteroflexible and bisexual. I personally believe it give far more people room and credit.

[MsMerrick]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

i
Bisexuality, to me, in my barb self-naming universe, means being able to have long term relationships and to be in love with two or more sexes.

Being able to love and romantically realate only one sex, but have sex with two, to me is not bisexuality. That's heteroflexible or homoflexible. A lot of people are that way.

................................................

I don't see it as a sex thing. that's a different classification in my head. people can be hetero or homo flexible to varying degrees. depends on how flexible you are lol. But bisexuality - in my dictionary - involves *presently* as in, right now, havign the capacity or capability to fall in love with men or women. I don't care if they could 25 years ago, many people's sexuality is not for life, many people's shift over time (NOT EVERYONES m'kay? Mine did. I was never latently lesbian. I fell in love - head over heels with men and women. Now I don't think I could if my life depended on it. And I have zero interest in men's willies except as an aesthetic in porn. But not in real life, ta - only the kind inhabited by dyke dick).

Many of my mates were shades of heteroflexible, and some genuinely bisexual. A few were homoflexible on the less flexible end of that scale (they once in a very blue moon had sex with a gay male friend or they liked to strap on and fuck men for the odd kink thrill in a kinkclub)

I personally like the divisions between homo/heteroflexible and bisexual. I personally believe it give far more people room and credit.

Thank you I think you may have been the only person who actually answered/gave your opinion , with detail and specificity, my original question ! Thanks !
I don't know if I agree or not, but you certainly gave me some ideas to chew on ...Not a big shock there..

[MsMerrick]

Btw, I didn't mean or want to minimize all of you, who posted your lives and tales, I did enjoy them all ; )

[Scrappy L'il Southpaw]

I will generally not discuss that I identify as bisexual because it seems to be such a fear factor in the lesbian community. My first girl friend flipped out when I shared with her that I identified as bi. Over the next year, any challenges in our relationship she would attribute to her fear of my identifying as bi. Including her schlepping off to a hotel room with her ex-girlfriend. Somehow that had to do with my identification...Right!

I'll share with you what I shared with her years ago and what I still stand by.
For me, bisexual means I'm attracted to you the person. Your gender and your genitals don't matter to me. If you stir my heart and tickle my fancy, you are the one for me. I am monogamous. Period. If I'm with you, I'm with you. I'm not going to fancy someone different for sex and cheat because I have an urge for a different gender.

May sound a little simplistic. There are enough other complications in relationships and the world. This is just how I feel about it.

All that being said, I've dated only women the last 5 years. I've had a couple of guy attractions but nothing driving or that I wanted to act upon.

That's me.

[AlexHunter]

I'm not bisexual, but... the majority of the women I've dated have been. I had a lesbian friend ask me, "Why do you bark up the bi tree so often?" Well, honestly, it's because - apart from the B-F community - the women who dig me and are amendable to what I like in the bedroom usually happen to swing that way. A lot of self-identified lesbians (again, not in this community, just in general) are not so keen on my cock-centric sexuality. Like many genderqueer, transgendered, and male ID'd butches, I bind, pack, and get read as a guy on a regular basis.

Derailed tangents aside:

"Being able to love and romantically relate only one sex, but have sex with two, to me is not bisexuality. That's heteroflexible or homoflexible. A lot of people are that way."

I agree with that one. In fact, I've said that myself for years.

I had a bisexual ex who told me she felt compelled to make up her mind for years. This caused her to have both a straight phase and a gay phase. She eventually "gave up" and realized she could be happy with either. She had friends who had seen her with both sexes, yet still would say things like, "Oh, so you're straight now" if she dated a man or, "Oh, so you're gay now" if she dated a woman.

When she told her parents, they said, "Oh, honey, it's just a phase. Everyone is bisexual. Everyone! That doesn't mean you're actually that way! Just focus on your attraction to men and you will be fine."

She brought me home and they didn't know what to think.

[Sassy]

Originally Posted by Scrappy L'il Southpaw

I will generally not discuss that I identify as bisexual because it seems to be such a fear factor in the lesbian community............ My first girl friend flipped out when I shared with her that I identified as bi...............Over the next year, any challenges in our relationship she would attribute to her fear of my identifying as bi.

Thank you for sharing this.

[Jett]

Wow, I talked up a storm here, my apoligies, but damn I apparent needed to rant.
I think some people find bisexual a stepping stone on the way to identifying as lesbian or gay... as to ease the climb... I on the other hand found the steps ended with bisexual. I've never identified as totally straight but I have previously identified as a lesbian, because shit, I must be, I'd been in a relationship with a woman for a decade and a half. It's only on my years long my path of searching for authentic self, retrospectively looking at my feelings of the my youth... honestly looking, untainted by learned prejudices, mass mentalities, have I admitted to something I'd criticized in the past. I enjoy the company and intimate companionship of both sexes fairly equally. If I were to find myself again single, (which as an aside I don't see as I'm happily coupled with a woman and have been for some time) I could in no way say that I would not be with a man, or a woman... I think I would be with whoever stole my heart and who loved me as I loved them regardless of whats between there legs. And it's been proven to me either sex is quite capable of attracting my attention.

I will say men have hurt me more, personally. I will also admit to having been raped, but having this happen to you doesn't change your sexual orientation. It doesn't mean all men are bad or evil, although it skewed my thinking and fucked me up for some time I was attracted to men and woman before it happened and am still even though I admit I've had to really work through some deeper issues with that. And to be fair some woman have fucked me up too...

All this said, never before has it been so difficult to come out about something as it has about being bisexual. I mean why subject oneself to the bullshit stereotypes, to the alienation from the gay community in which you've built love and lifelong friendships? The straight community can be just as bad... some seem to take it as meaning your a sex nymph. I mean YES I'm bisexual but no it does not mean I'm attracted to you... I'm in a monogamous relationship... then it's like NO I do not want a threesome... if I did find myself single again I realize most lesbians will not date me because I'm bisexual, and some men may not trust me, or worse think I'm a ticket to a peep show... like blah fuck it... why ever tell anyone as long as I live???

After the last national coming out day, and a LOT of thinking, I come out publicly only because of those exact stupid stereotypes. Cause it really pisses me off to have anyone think I'm "confused" or "straddling a fence for the fun of it" or that I'm "more likely to cheat". I will speak out and claim it proudly because I have PRIDE, I want to truth about it all to be visible, and that forces me to make myself visible in hopes of educating people as to what bisexuality is and what bisexuality is not. Last I come out because I have faith in people, I have faith in my friends, and if someday someone doesn't want to be with me just because I'm bisexual I don't want to be with them either, because frankly they are utterly stupid...

[LexiLove]

Originally Posted by Random

When I first became sexual, I identified as bisexual..

I was attracted to a small percentage of women, and they scared the HELL out of me.. They generally were in the military, had short hair, and wore guys clothes.. They made my palms sweat and made me nervous and self aware in a way that I had never been before... I was actually aware of my skin, body...

I had absolutly no idea what to do with them.. I couldn't talk to them, look them in the eye... But I was aware...

Guys, I knew what to do with... From my first experience, I knew how to drive them insane... Knew my power and used it... I had no problem playing with them, talking to them, teasing them... I did have a problem connecting emotionally with them... It was about sex and power... There was tenderness, but that was not the norm..

So I called myself bisexual... Because of this awareness for a certain type of woman.. (I had no word/lable/knowledge of anything. My *gay* world was the world of the gay man...) I knew I couldn't be straight.

Fast forward 15 yrs later... A failed marriage, a couple flirtations, and I came out to myself... Gay.. Queer...

Yes. I understand this very well.