Sex, Gender, or Sexual Orientation

[Darth Denkay]

Currently threads addressing various identities are really prolific around here - which is a good thing. I read a number of them, but haven't participated much because I can only get on the site every few days so I stay a day or two behind. In any case, I've noticed a commonality that runs through many of the threads. We use identity labels as we understand them, but we don't understand them all the same, which makes it difficult for us to clearly communicate with each other. In particular, one poster may be referencing sex while another reads it as gender so we're frequently not on the same page.

To illustrate, I'm going to offer my conceptualization of a number of identities. I am not insinuating that these are the only understanding for each term, but I expect that folks will read through them and think "whoa, that's not how I use that term". So I give you Kayden's identity jargon.

First we have Sex, which I understand as a biological manifestation. There are three broad sex categories (in MY mind remember): female, male, and intersex. These identities are based on chromosomal makeup, hormone levels, genitals, and additional secondary sex characteristics. We're raised to buy into, really, a 2-sex binary, since intersex often isn't included. So when I read male or female, I interpret those terms as either referring to biological sex at birth, or a marker used by trans individuals. Chromosomes match genitalia in most cases, although intersex and trans folks prevent this being an absolute (which is a good thing!). I identify as female. My genitalia are female - I know you all really needed to know that. As far as I know, I have an X and a Y chromosome. I know my testosterone levels are extremely high for females (I don't take hormones, never have). In any case my sex is female.

Next we have Gender. I understand gender as an internal sense of self, related to sex but not bound by it. We are raised to believe in a binary gender system, female=woman and male=man. Our community busts that right open. We understand at least two additional genders - femme and butch (and we use other terms as well - two-spirit, third gender, other gender - but for simplicity's sake I'm going to stick to butch and femme). I identify as butch. In our community I associate butch with female. This is an assumption I make, that those who identify as butch are female (physically). If someone does not fit this description, then I am likely going to misunderstand their identity. Neither of us is right or wrong, but I see butch through a female lens, so I am going to assume that the butch in question is female-bodied. With femmes it becomes a little more complicated, because I can't assume that femme automatically means female, at least not in the sense of biological birth. Most femmes, I assume, are female by birth, but some are male or intersexed at birth so again, it's not an absolute. This is the reason I've never identified as a female butch - for me, butch assumes female.

Next we come to the gender descriptors, masculine and feminine. We are raised to associate masculine with male (and also equate that with man) and feminine with female (equated with woman). Once again, our community demonstrates that we can't make this assumption as butches possess masculinity proudly as females, femmes demonstrate femininity sometimes in a profoundly different way than females who do not identify as femme. And I'm not even going to address how femmes can demonstrate masculinity and butches femininity because then it gets ever so much more complex. Which is also why all of this can be colossally confusing. I identify as a masculine entity, just for the record. I'm also not going to go into man and woman, again because I don't really want to write a dissertation, and I doubt you want to read one. In my case, neither man or woman. Just masculine.

Trangender. This identity, to my mind, encompasses both sex and gender. In very simple terms, it is when one's sex and gender do not coincide the way that our binary sex/gender system expects them to. For some this may mean not identifying as man or woman, but not desiring to and/or taking any steps to change one's physical sex. For others, this means altering physical sex (if they are able) to match their sense of man or woman. I used to identify as trans, but I quit, basically because I didn't believe that term was adding any additional, useful information to my identity markers.

Sexual orientation. We have at least four categories here: heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, and asexual. Some folks use other terms as well (such as dyke, man who has sex with men, woman-loving-woman) but again let's keep this sorta simple. We tend to assume that folks on this site fall outside of the heteronormative box, particularly as gay, lesbian, or bisexual. Of course, some of us may identify as gay/lesbian/bisexual when we arrive here, but as we become who we truly feel we are it is certainly possible we might embrace heterosexual. However, this heterosexual is qualitatively different from the heteronormative one (again, in my mind). Is sexual orientation related to sex or gender. I think we all understand it differently. However, it is attraction/behavior, which in my mind is related to sex and gender there is no one-to-one connection (i.e. masculine females must be homosexual).

Are you tired of reading yet. Are you even still reading? Okay, one more. Queer. Some folks use queer to describe their sexual orientation. Gay, lesbian, bisexual, all could be queer. Others use queer to describe their gender, simplistically not man or woman. In my mind, pretty much everyone on the site is queer - given my understanding of the term - although I know there are folks who don't identify as queer. And frankly, I don't spend any time going through the member list - queer, queer, definitely queer, queer, goose - but this term certainly can cover many identities.

Okay, I'm going to stop now. I just read over it, I think it makes sense. Not sure if this will spur any discussion, but I've been mulling over these terms for a while now so wanted to toss them out. This stuff can be really dense. And since we do not all use these terms in the same way, some of our misunderstandings are based in different conceptualizations of the same terms. Thanks for reading.

[DapperButch]

Ummmm..........yep.

[Dylan]

I agree with almost all your points

I disagree with butches are female

And I also use transsexed to denote the difference between transgender and transsexed folks. I think using the term transgender as an umbrella term gets confusing, especially when talking in groups where members are transgendered, or transsexed, or both.


Dylan

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I agree with almost all your points

I disagree with butches are female

And I also use transsexed to denote the difference between transgender and transsexed folks. I think using the term transgender as an umbrella term gets confusing, especially when talking in groups where members are transgendered, or transsexed, or both.


Dylan

I agree. The terms are very, very often used interchageably/inaccurately, which is useful to NO ONE.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Imho, everyone goes on their own journey to figure out if they are glbt or straight.

[apretty]

i'm queer by choice.

[Darth Denkay]

Hi Dylan,

Thanks for adding transsexed to the pot. I didn't think to include it. I use the term transsexed in the same way that you do (I think), which leaves transgendered as an umbrella term, as you said, that can be very confusing.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Dylan

I agree with almost all your points

I disagree with butches are female

And I also use transsexed to denote the difference between transgender and transsexed folks. I think using the term transgender as an umbrella term gets confusing, especially when talking in groups where members are transgendered, or transsexed, or both.


Dylan

[Andrew, Jr.]

I just say we are all human beings, and reaching out to each other for love. We are family. How someone id's is a personal choice.

Andrew

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

I just say we are all human beings, and reaching out to each other for love. We are family. How someone id's is a personal choice.

Andrew

Umm, no I don't think it's a choice.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

I just say we are all human beings, and reaching out to each other for love. We are family. How someone id's is a personal choice.

Andrew

Originally Posted by EzeeTiger

Umm, no I don't think it's a choice.

Actually, I'd disagree, Ez. The actual term we use to define ourselves is the choice (e.g., I use transman while others just use man and yet others use tranny fag). The reason for who we are isn't. (My body and mind do not match)

I think that's what Andrew might have been referring to.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Linus,

Thank you for your help explaining what I was trying to get out.

Love,
Andrew

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by Linus

Actually, I'd disagree, Ez. The actual term we use to define ourselves is the choice (e.g., I use transman while others just use man and yet others use tranny fag). The reason for who we are isn't. (My body and mind do not match)

I think that's what Andrew might have been referring to.

Maybe that is what he meant to say Linus but you could read the comment more than one way.
If you and Andrew are speaking strictly about one's own terminology then I would completely agree.

[chai~]

~bookmarking~

[Jett]

I think we've had and do still have difficulties defining and agreeing upon various identities because there are so many variations of each identity. It can become difficult when some "markers" in some individuals begin to overlap other with "markers" of another identity... confusing for those who only have a small box for each one. The brain works as smoothly as it does because it basically wants to simplify things in order to be able to store and retrieve great quantities of information quickly, easily and efficiently... that and then some peeps just see things the way they desire them to look and can get really closed minded with things they are passionate about. Too, often times we're still learning, and just haven't "gotten there" yet.

I don't think your internal make-up that we call identity is a choice, I think the words we use to describe it is. I choose to for the most part not to verbally "identify", but I could identify myself using queer gender oriented words, I just don't at this time in my life. For one I have a strong inkling to just fucking be... to just exist and enjoy without thinking about it, no rules, no others definitions chaffing my ass... and two because I don't care (perhaps linked to reason one haha).

To me it is extremely simple, I am unrepentant female masculinity on the inside, at the core, and am mostly a mix of masculine and feminine markers on the outside, maybe slightly more so one way or the other on cues of mood. BUT I always am who I am on the inside... and to me that is what makes you who you are, makes your truth in identity, not underwear, shoes, haircut, definition or a word- or others ridiculous stamp approval *choke* or disapproval of your choices or appearance. Freedom- is breaking free from what you think you should be and just being who you are... truth in self- is the inner reality of things and finding and living in that genuinely... everything else, all the fluff and hubbub is just noise.

Let people talk, no matter what you do they always will... just make sure you dance and enjoy the fuck out life and of yourself while they are huddled around doing it.

[lisa93]

a lot of ppl get these mixed up