Death Penalty - News, Thoughts, Info

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Isn't this the line of thinking that caused Australia to be populated by non-indiginous people?

Actually, no. Australia was both exile and colonization by another name. I'm not talking about exile. While an island is a perfect example a very secure prison can be built on the mainland as we already know. There was, in fact, possibility of human hope in Australia. There was variety. People could have human interactions. What I describe is nothing like that. Outside of the basics of medical care and sustenance, I'm talking a prison devoid of any other thing that makes life worth living. The idea with Australian penal colonies was to expand the the British empire. The prisoners would be going nowhere and outside of the exemption of their lawyer with new information, they would never again have contact with a living person from outside the walls of that prison.

Australia, a person could have hope. Outside of the truly innocent, who through some majestic act of will hold on to hope, no inmate would ever have anything to hope for again. There's no parole. There's no getting out unless you were actually innocent. Your sentence is up, when your life is over.

None of that is remotely like what happened in Australia. Even exile would offer more to hope for than this prison environment. At least in exile, you might be able to find a quiet place in the wilderness where you could live out your days. This isn't even that.

Cheers
Aj

[Gemme]

I agree that putting someone in a vaccum would be mental torture for the vast majority of the population. I just cannot justify the expense of keeping people that have been proven (through DNA, repeat identification, etc) to commit heinous crimes alive for decades and I can't imagine what the mental state of an innocent person wrongly accused and sentenced to that punishment would be like in the time it would take to discover the truth. In the end, to me, it would be more cruel to die a slow death every day and then down the road be thrust, unprepared, into the world as it stands at that moment than being sentenced to the death penalty.

But that's what is interesting about us humans. We're different and falliable and just doing the best we can.

[Medusa]

I am absolutely, unequivocally opposed to the death penalty under all circumstances.

It actually scares the shit out of me that we live in a world where other people get to decide if someone lives or dies based on breaking rules of society.

Now, before anyone twitches, Im not at all saying that people who rape, murder, commit child molestation, etc. don't need to be punished, but I am greatly bothered by different people receiving the death penalty based on the systemic oppressions in our world.

For example, adultery is punishable by death in countries such as Yemen and Iran. If adultery is defined as "sex outside of marriage", I would venture to guess that a great many of us would be dead had we lived in those countries.

Is it fucked up that these countries kill grown adults who want to have sex with one another consensually? I think so.

Now think about this, homosexuality is punishable by death in countries such as Yemen and some parts of Nigeria. 100% of the people on this website would be dead if we lived in those countries.
Is that fucked up?
I think so, but those are the laws of those countries.

My point is that I don't think that human beings, no matter their level of education, class, creed, or history, have a right to put another human being to death. Punish the shit out of them? Yes. Throw them in prison? Yes. Rehabilitate them? Yes.

Kill them? Not for me, no.

I think about the thousands of men of Color in the prison systems in this country and how the crimes they committed were often perpetrated under an oppressive and intentional system of power abuse. Does that mean that these people aren't responsible for their crimes? Absolutely not. I think that if you are an adult and you rob, rape, murder, etc. then you have to pay for your crimes.

Do I believe that many of these men raped, robbed, or murdered because they were trying (in a fucked up way) to gain power? Maybe.

Again, not diminishing the fact that there are people in this world who do terrible, evil things. There are.

Still, I think about the people who do terrible things because of what they have been through, people who are wrongfully accused, people who are mentally ill and still put to death.

I think of those people and know that there is a better, more humane way.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Gemme

I agree that putting someone in a vaccum would be mental torture for the vast majority of the population. I just cannot justify the expense of keeping people that have been proven (through DNA, repeat identification, etc) to commit heinous crimes alive for decades and I can't imagine what the mental state of an innocent person wrongly accused and sentenced to that punishment would be like in the time it would take to discover the truth. In the end, to me, it would be more cruel to die a slow death every day and then down the road be thrust, unprepared, into the world as it stands at that moment than being sentenced to the death penalty.

But that's what is interesting about us humans. We're different and falliable and just doing the best we can.

So let me ask you a question. What does justice mean to you? See, it seems that execution is about vengeance. What I'm talking about is punishment. Quite honestly, I think death is too good for some criminals. I want them to have quite a bit of time to sit and reflect upon their crime.

As far as the innocent person, I think that the issue is whether we can retrieve someone from it. I don't know what this would be like, although as I have developed this idea over years of writing, I have refined it in my mind for maximum psychic impact. If there is anything left in someone that can be called human, this place will have an impact on them. But I believe that people are astoundingly resilient. People survived the death camps, people survived the gulag, people survived Sarajevo and people survive war. Perhaps people could survive this. But if they're dead, they're gone.

Cheers
Aj

[Passionaria]

I am against the death penalty, for two reasons. I don't believe in taking the life of another, unless it is self defense. A trial isn't self defense. Two I think it is a cop out. The notion being death is the worst possible punishment. It's not. I am in favor of restorative measures for crimes. I believe the person who committed the crime should have to do something to make it right. Like work, and give the money to the family or person who was hurt, while incarcerated. Or, do something to make the world a better place like grow food for poor people, build housing for the homeless or single mothers.

On a more sadistic note. I think the real hard core criminals should be in the military, on the front line, rather than our sons. Let them do what they do best, while our children create lives and keep their bodies and souls intact. Pashi

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

So let me ask you a question. What does justice mean to you? See, it seems that execution is about vengeance. What I'm talking about is punishment. Quite honestly, I think death is too good for some criminals. I want them to have quite a bit of time to sit and reflect upon their crime.

As far as the innocent person, I think that the issue is whether we can retrieve someone from it. I don't know what this would be like, although as I have developed this idea over years of writing, I have refined it in my mind for maximum psychic impact. If there is anything left in someone that can be called human, this place will have an impact on them. But I believe that people are astoundingly resilient. People survived the death camps, people survived the gulag, people survived Sarajevo and people survive war. Perhaps people could survive this. But if they're dead, they're gone.

Cheers
Aj

This isn't because I think anyone here doesn't know, but to show there's a wide variety in the definitions.

Justice
–noun
1. the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness: to uphold the justice of a cause.
2. rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: to complain with justice.
3. the moral principle determining just conduct.
4. conformity to this principle, as manifested in conduct; just conduct, dealing, or treatment.
5. the administering of deserved punishment or reward.
6. the maintenance or administration of what is just by law, as by judicial or other proceedings: a court of justice.
7. judgment of persons or causes by judicial process: to administer justice in a community.
8. a judicial officer; a judge or magistrate.
9. ( initial capital letter ) Also called Justice Department. the Department of Justice.
—Idioms
10. bring to justice, to cause to come before a court for trial or to receive punishment for one's misdeeds: The murderer was brought to justice.
11. do justice,
a. to act or treat justly or fairly.
b. to appreciate properly: We must see this play again to do it justice.
c. to acquit in accordance with one's abilities or potentialities: He finally got a role in which he could do himself justice as an actor.


For myself, it's along the lines of Newton's Laws of Motion...action/reaction to be exact...like a pendulum. They (criminals) swing to the extreme left and the punishment is the corresponding swing to the right. Justice, to me, is not only the determination of a proper punishment but the administering of the punishment that should be equal to or greater than the crime.

As for any potential innocents surviving that sort of punishment....surviving is not living and my experience with people with who have survived extremely traumatic events has shown me that, in many of those circumstances, death would have been kinder.

Thanks for the debate and have a good night.

[Nat]

If I'm ever convicted of a crime I didn't commit, I would prefer life to death.

[Medusa]

People who are wrongfully convicted and given death sentences don't always give up hope, even if it's the hope that someone, somewhere might believe their story and fight for better rights for prisoners.

Check out the West Memphis 3: http://www.wm3.org/

These three were (I believe) wrongfully convicted of murdering 3 boys here in Arkansas and have been in prison for the last 17 years. Damien Echols has been on death row that entire time.

He has written a pretty thoughtful book and has given countless interviews about being wrongfully convicted and how it has affected not only his personal life but the people who believe him to be innocent. Some of these people have been fighting right alongside him for 17 years.

Briefly, these boys were convicted of murder by a backwoods judge here in Arkansas and a prosecuting attorney who painted them all as "devil worshippers" simply because they had black hair and wore Metallica t-shirts. The ENTIRE case was built on circumstantial evidence and it was recently found (as recent as last month) that new DNA testing has proven that NONE of these 3 boy's DNA was found at the crime scene.

It was a modern-day witch hunt by ignorant people and a prosecutor who was trying to win a campaignship for judge. He later DID win and has thrown out multiple requests for new trials and appeals even though he prosecuted the first case. Conflict of Interest anyone?

It's cases like these that bolster my stance on the death penalty. Damien Echols, Jesse Misskelley, and Jason Baldwin would all be dead right now.

A synopsis of the trial and convictions is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memphis_3

Prepare yourself if you choose to read it. It will make you sick to your stomach at such a gross and obvious miscarriage of justice.

And these are 3 White boys from Arkansas. Imagine if they had been Black.

[katsarecool]

Web address:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/
090804090946.htm

Brain Difference In Psychopaths Identified
enlarge

Scientists have found differences in the brain which may provide a biological explanation for psychopathy. (Credit: iStockphoto/Hayden Bird)ScienceDaily (Aug. 5, 2009) — Professor Declan Murphy and colleagues Dr Michael Craig and Dr Marco Catani from the Institute of Psychiatry at King's College London have found differences in the brain which may provide a biological explanation for psychopathy.

The research investigated the brain biology of psychopaths with convictions that included attempted murder, manslaughter, multiple rape with strangulation and false imprisonment. Using a powerful imaging technique (DT-MRI) the researchers have highlighted biological differences in the brain which may underpin these types of behaviour and provide a more comprehensive understanding of criminal psychopathy.

Dr Michael Craig said: 'If replicated by larger studies the significance of these findings cannot be underestimated. The suggestion of a clear structural deficit in the brains of psychopaths has profound implications for clinicians, research scientists and the criminal justice system.'

While psychopathy is strongly associated with serious criminal behaviour (eg rape and murder) and repeat offending, the biological basis of psychopathy remains poorly understood. Also some investigators stress mainly social reasons to explain antisocial behaviours. To date, nobody has investigated the 'connectivity' between the specific brain regions implicated in psychopathy.

Earlier studies had suggested that dysfunction of specific brain regions might underpin psychopathy. Such areas of the brain were identified as the amygdale, ie the area associated with emotions, fear and aggression, and the orbitofrontal cortex (OFC), the region which deals with decision making. There is a white matter tract that connects the amygdala and OFC, which is called the uncinate fasciculus (UF). However, nobody had ever studied the UF in psychopaths. The team from King's used an imaging method called in vivo diffusion tensor magnetic resonance imaging (DT-MRI) tractography to analyse the UF in psychopaths.

They found a significant reduction in the integrity of the small particles that make up the structure of the UF of psychopaths, compared to control groups of people with the same age and IQ. Also, the degree of abnormality was significantly related to the degree of psychopathy. These results suggest that psychopaths have biological differences in the brain which may help to explain their offending behaviours.

Dr Craig added: 'This study is part of an ongoing programme of research into the biological basis of criminal psychopathy. It highlights that exciting developments in brain imaging such as DT-MRI now offer neuroscientists the potential to move towards a more coherent understanding of the possible brain networks that underlie psychopathy, and potentially towards treatments for this mental disorder.'

Disclaimer: This article is not intended to provide medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of ScienceDaily or its staff

[Blade]

I do believe in the death penalty. I voted other. I voted that way because I think for me it depends on the crime committed and the evidence shown at trial. Now I'm going to be a good boy and go sit beside Snowy and be quiet.......Maybe

[EnderD_503]

We don't have the death penalty here, which I think is a good thing. Even with forensics being what it is today, people are still wrongly accused. There are some people like Paul Bernardo that, if it were up to me, would get what's coming to them, but then the repercussions of legalising the death penalty for cases such as that aren't worth it, in my view.

[BullDog]

I am against the death penalty. Killing someone will not bring anyone back to life or erase someone being molested, raped or anything else. We need to figure out how to deal with criminals and people who are mentally ill in a rational and humane way (not for the criminal's sake but for ours) and above all try to figure out how to prevent more of these crimes from occuring in the first place. Otherwise we stoop to their level. Exacting revenge is not a way for me to show I love or care about someone.

Since it does cost a lot of money to imprison them, I think they should have to work for their keep if that is feasible. I agree with Aj, make their lives as monotonous as possible.

p.s. it doesn't surprise me that Canada doesn't have the death penalty. They also don't obsess over owning guns.

[Glenn]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

We don't have the death penalty here, which I think is a good thing. Even with forensics being what it is today, people are still wrongly accused. There are some people like Paul Bernardo that, if it were up to me, would get what's coming to them, but then the repercussions of legalising the death penalty for cases such as that aren't worth it, in my view.

That trash has been locked up for 23 hours each day in a tiny cell with squat to do for the last 16 years...and he will live like that until he dies of old age...he wishes Canada had the death penalty.