Walmart: Evil or no?

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

Yeah, we have a huge flea market with farmer's markets here - but we find that the quality of the produce isn't all that, believe it or not. I don't know what these people do to their produce - (or where they are traveling from - I don't think they are locals) but we'll buy it looking fantastic, and within a day, it's beyond nasty. Actually, when we drive along the roads here, there are a lot of pop up stands with veggies and fruits fresh picked. I prefer those to the farmer's market, which is hit or miss for us. Even if they charge a little more, the quality is well worth it.

However, I do love the flea market - (and it is HUGE).

well some people that sell produce buy from brokers. All flea markets are different and you have to go super early because as soon as they sell out they leave.

you can also grow really nice produce easy with intensive gardening, raised beds. Even the smallest space.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Selenay

Walmart costs taxpayers each year over 1 Billion (that's with a B) dollars in state money. How, you may ask?

Federal aid, food stamps, WIC, state health care and welfare subsidies for fulltime and part time walmart employees.

For more scintillating information you can read Nickle and Dimed, or The Wal-Mart Effect

incase any of us lose sight of the real *cost* of shopping at wal-mart.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by apretty

incase any of us lose sight of the real *cost* of shopping at wal-mart.

my daughter and her husband both work there. they are encouraged to apply for food stamps and aid.

i found them an apartment with the full knowledge that I may have to subsidize their rent sometimes because the hours they get can be so erratic.

also, my son in law was hurt but wouldn't report it because employee's are on a *point* system. He would have been docked a very large amount of points because on the job injuries there are ALWAYS considered the fault of the employee.

the good news is that reality has spurned them both to get back into college. Praise Sam Walton.

[apretty]

superfemme,

that's about the only success story coming out of wal-mart that i've ever heard! yay for those two!

oh and tell your son-in-law that it only takes 3 people to file a class-action lawsuit--he should EASILY be able to find 2 other injured workers.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

Why do we blame wal mart for killing small businesses? Why don't we blame shoppers for abandoning small businesses in favor of wal mart. No one makes anyone shop at wal-mart.

Rufus

It's a good question. Consumers are getting both needs and wants met. They get a product at a price they can afford. And WalMart continual tries to lower the price. Fine. The reality is that lower cost has to come out of somewhere.

My understanding is (and based on the article I referenced in the OP) it has to do with what WalMart is doing to manufacturers of products. Basically, they are forcing them to create them and sell them at below cost if they want to reach the audience that WalMart has built. Yes, they are aggressively competitive but at what cost in the long run?

Source: Harper's 2006

Yet since 2004, Kraft has announced plans to shut thirty-nine plants, to let go 13,500 workers, and to eliminate a quarter of its products. Most reports blame soaring prices of energy and raw materials, but in a truly free market Kraft could have pushed at least some of these higher costs on to the consumer. This, however, is no longer possible. Even as costs rise, Wal-Mart and other discounters continue to demand that Kraft lower its prices further. Kraft has found itself with no other choice than to swallow the costs, and hence to tear itself to pieces.

This kind of behaviour has, IMO, a ripple effect that is felt. The 13,500 workers likely lost decent jobs and if they work at WalMart they are at a far lower pay scale than before. We are creating an environment where, to get lower costs, we are going to abuse workers and pay them at a substandard level.

Part of it, certainly, is due to the over-drive consumerism that exists here. But part of it is because of the nature of WalMart. And yes, others do it -- after seeing what WalMart was doing and seeing that no one stopped them (attempts by various gov'ts ended up being settled out of court with a few tossed). This study, done in 2004, details some of the hidden costs of WalMart. I suspect that we're paying more for WalMart than we realize.

Now, do I recognize that some good can come from them? Yes. There is always the possibility. I also don't think they are the only ones. Many people hire those with various disabilities and various age ranges. To be honest, and perhaps it's a sign of the difference between Can and the US, I don't see how WalMart is viewed as better at this than other organizations. I also wonder how much of the hiring choice (as in who and what type of person is hired) is more of a regional effect rather than a corporate wide policy or attitude.

Source: Harper article referenced above.

But the issue before us is not how Wal-Mart grew to scale but how Wal-Mart uses its power today and will use it tomorrow. The problem is that Wal-Mart, like other monopsonists, does not participate in the market so much as use its power to micromanage the market, carefully coordinating the actions of thousands of firms from a position above the market.

Walmart, to me, is the Microsoft of goods and services.

[T D]

Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price(2005) NR

Filmmaker Robert Greenwald takes aim at the corporate giant that's come to symbolize big business in America -- Wal-Mart -- blasting the box-store Goliath for allegedly paying substandard wages, skimping on employee benefits and gutting communities. This hard-hitting, emotional documentary profiles the struggle of everyday folks from around the country who've committed themselves to fighting the mega-retailer.

Genre:
Social & Cultural Documentaries, Indie Documentaries

This movie is:
Inspiring, Dark, Controversial, Cerebral

Format:
DVD and streaming

For whomever it was that asked, I blame Walmart for killing small business because when a Walmart comes to town the small businesses simply cannot compete with Walmart's super cheap prices. The documentary also explains why so many of their products are so inexpensive as well. That happens when you basically employ the poor for practically nothing, and resell for a profit. If I'm buying a t-shirt from Walmart for $4.50, imagine what it cost them to make and import this t-shirt and still most likely make a huge profit on it!! There's NO WAY that small business can compete, thusly many, many small town America down towns are dying or are gone. The same thing happens to grocery stores when the super Walmarts move in. In addition many towns helped subsidize Walmart (as if they need(ed) financial assistance) to move into their towns, only to realize that it practically kills the town. Watch the documentary and decide for yourself.

[bright_arrow]

So far - none of our small stores aka locally owned stores have closed. Not a one. Not yet at least, and they've been here five years. Many people left P&C when Wal-mart came in (customers, not employees - and it's a super Wal-mart I should add I suppose) because, well, P&C is pretty expensive. I paid $10 for a jar of some spice or another that my mother asked for She about killed me, and said she could have gone without it *shrug*

Though I hear that Wal-mart's produce isn't the best .. Hm. I don't do the grocery shopping so I'm not sure.

And a random tidbit I found interesting, when price comparing - in the orange box there's the unit price, say the bottle of shampoo is $1 per ounce for instance, so if you're trying to compare two different sizes and trying to see which one is cheaper per unit measure, that will tell you.

I thought that was cool. Just my .02

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by Sachita

well some people that sell produce buy from brokers. All flea markets are different and you have to go super early because as soon as they sell out they leave.

you can also grow really nice produce easy with intensive gardening, raised beds. Even the smallest space.

We do grow our own produce ... we enjoy it so much in fact, our plans include a 6 acre farm in the near future. (God willing and God speed, yanno?)

[TIMBERWOLF]

I don't think it evil . There are a lot of stores that do the same thing. It depends on where you live and whats available to you. I don't by my meat there. I prefer to go to HEB and buy my meat. I check prices because Wal Mart isn't always the cheapest on everything. My Lady shops at Target a lot.If I have to go to a few places to get what i want I will.Hey we go to the 99 cent store only for things.I do normally buy my milk at Wal Mart. I go to the Mrs Baird's bread thrift store where I can buy my Orowheat Whole wheat bread for $1.69 a loaf instead of over $3.00 at Wal Mart.So I think you just have to go with what you can afford.No shame, no guilt. We are consumers and each one of us chooses what is best for us,our family.
TIMBER

[dixie]

Due to the total lack of jobs in my area, after being out of work for over 18 months, I went back to work in the photolab at WalMart. (I had worked for the company in my early 20s.) Yeah, their pay sucks but hey, it's a job.

When I worked for the company years ago, I worked in a store that was absolutely horrible. No women in mgmt, very sexist and just generally a horrible work environment. When I got the job offer this time, I was so dreading it because I expected the same thing eventhough it was a different location. So far I have been pleasantly surprised this go round. This new store I work at is almost a polar opposite to the first. At this one, our store manager is an openly gay female, as with a couple of our assistant managers. All but two of our Customer Service managers are openly gay males, and there are many many associates who are openly gay, including myself. I was almost shocked to see how gay friendly this store is with its employees, so very different from the last store which always seemed to fire the employees for one reason or another when it was "discovered" that the employee was gay.

The store is very geared for community involvement, inside its doors and out. We have lots of charity programs in the community and also for the employees. We hold benefit dinners inhouse for employees in need. I particularly like this program because the store donates most of the food (employees can donate dishes as well) and it is set up all day in the breakroom and charges $5 per plate for any employee who wants to participate. ALL of the money goes directly to the employee in need (who is kept anonymous). I've seen it help folks a great deal.

Unfortunately though, there are still some issues at this store. For example, two teenage girls working different departments. One girl is a total slacker who not only does NOT do her job but has over 40 unexcused absences. She has not even received a warning. The other girl works her ass off, is always there and always ready to help out wherever she is needed. Two days ago she started having chest pains and her arms went numb. She went into the breakroom to sit down and calm down because the situation was scaring her. She sat there for about 45 minutes. However, she did not tell a member of management what was going on until the end of that time period. Management fired her on the spot for "stealing company money" because she was on the clock when this occurred. WTF? I understand that she should have let someone know what was going on before leaving the floor (not just for her job's sake but for health's sake as well) but I feel that management should have been more understanding and lenient with her due to the circumstances and her previously impeccible work ethic. But that's just my view I guess.

As for most of the issues people have with WalMart for the way they treat their employees, I understand the frustration and anger (after all, I know firsthand). But after working for many different companies in many different places, I also realize that it's not just WalMart. There are MANY MANY companies out there who are just as bad if not worse. We just normally don't get to hear about those companies as often, because they aren't as publicly known as WalMart.

We could hope that at some point in time, ALL employers could be more fair and just with their employees, but I guess in the world of big business the $$$ are always going to be priority number one...

[NJFemmie]

Mare and I were actually on our way to Walmarta yesterday, and I brought up this topic. Basically, She felt the same way I do about it - Mom and Pop stores are great when you're in a pinch, but they are way too expensive. In the Walmarta by Her job, they employ a severely disabled man who sits at the door and marks the receipts as you exit. Thinking about it - where else would this man have an opportunity to be employed?

It's a double edged sword topic - on one hand, you know Walmarta makes enough money to extend benefits to their employees. Most retail stores do, but they don't want it to inflate overhead and cut into profit. (CEOs need that damn Bentley and the Olympic sized pools, yanno).... Again, most retail stores do this, including the one Mare works for. She gets benefits because She is management, but She is constantly reminded to watch employee hours because if they go over, they'll be eligible for bennies. Does it suck? Yes. But on the other hand, Walmarta makes employment a reality for those who would not otherwise have an opportunity.

In this economy ... it's all about what you don't spend.

*shrug*

[AtLast]

I know I certainly have gone back and forth about this. On one hand, I want to support local businesses that are smaller. I do so, but, I also shop bargains which often are just in the box-type stores like Walmart. I have a friend that absolutely will not buy anything at Walmart. I respect her choice, yet, I just can't go negative about these kinds of stores entirely. It is about the economy and jobs for me in the end. I don't like some of the employment practices of the big box stores and where they get located sometimes (that could hurt smaller, local businesses). I will pay a bit more for something at a Mom & Pop store, but not a crazy inflated price. Sometimes, I buy with customer service in mind, too.

I come from a family-owned small business background, so I have to say I struggle a lot with this. Also, I certainly do find bargains in smaller stores sometimes.

[theoddz]

Well, for me, I try not to buy anything from WalMart, just on principle. I'm not raising a family, though, and can afford not to pay the cheapest price available. For that alone, I am blessed, but I also realize that so many others are not in my position, so I can respect that they go where they can get the best prices. I totally and completely see that and agree with it. I also see where WalMart employs some folks who wouldn't have jobs otherwise. It just really pisses me off that it is these very practices, which we both laud and loathe WalMart for are, in the long run, going to drive down wages, destroy the last bastians of decent employment conditions. I think that, in the grand scheme of things, it will ultimately eliminate the middle class. I think they intend it that way. I fully believe and subscribe to the notion that there is a such thing as a "New World Order" and that we are racing towards that very thing at a breakneck speed. This is what alarms me so.

I prefer to do all of my shopping on base, at the military exchanges and commissaries. If anyone's going to make a profit off of me, I'd rather it be put towards making the lives of military members and their families better and more comfortable.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I don't know how or if this problem/dilemma is ever going to be resolved, but I don't think that it will ever be in the best interests, overall, of the common American. By and large, America can't afford to not shop at WalMart, yet we can't afford to, either. They've got us by the short 'n curlies.


~Theo~

[Rufusboi]

Originally Posted by theoddz

By and large, America can't afford to not shop at WalMart, yet we can't afford to, either. They've got us by the short 'n curlies.


~Theo~

Good point. I think that sums up the dilemma for most. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Rufus

[Medusa]

I respect the principle of folks not shopping at Walmart because of their employee practices but my bottom line comes down to what we can afford.

It looks something like this:

Wal-Mart:
Cheapest roll of paper towels .77
Real butter 1.77
Cheapest loaf of bread .77
Tampons 3.97
Bag of frozen chicken tenderloins 6.44
=13.72


"Regular" Grocery Store:
Cheapest roll of paper towels 1.14
Real butter 2.97
Cheapest loaf of bread .99
Tampons 5.40
Bag of frozen chicken tenderloins 8.99
=19.49


That difference is about $6. Or 2.5 gallons of gas. Or 1/4 of our water bill. Or an extra carton of eggs, gallon of milk, and loaf of bread one week. Or a dollar movie and coke for each of us.

Medusa
(penny pincher)

[Lynn]

My wonderful butch does the shopping in our house. She is a coupon-clipper and sales-watcher, which saves us a lot of money every week. I'm talking, sometimes as much as $60 or $70. She will go to the grocery store for some items, Wal Mart for others, and then we do some bulk shopping at BJ's. I'm nothing but grateful for the time she puts into this. We are not wealthy, but her efforts save us enough to be able to handle a bill, deal with an unexpected emergency, or go away for a night. That improves the quality of our lives, together. To be honest, I'm sure there is much more to the controversy than I have been interested in finding out about. I don't begrudge anyone their point of view, and I would bet that I'd agree with them if I took the time to understand. But, honestly, I have many issues that are near and dear to me. Many important causes, including some that affect my children. I choose not to take it all on, and I really feel like I have to apologize because I know how it feels, when something is that important to me, and someone doesn't "get it."

[MsTinkerbelly]

My daughter tried to kill herself yesterday at school, but was fortunately stopped. I only found out because her best friend told his Dad who called us.... Anywhosit. Wal-mart health insurance will provide for her hospitalization, and regular visits to the therapist for unlimited sessions at $20 a visit. My insurance isn't half that good.....

[Linus]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

My daughter tried to kill herself yesterday at school, but was fortunately stopped. I only found out because her best friend told his Dad who called us.... Anywhosit. Wal-mart health insurance will provide for her hospitalization, and regular visits to the therapist for unlimited sessions at $20 a visit. My insurance isn't half that good.....

Wow. I'm glad that the insurance he has will cover it and, more importantly, that someone stopped your daughter from doing harm. I'll have her in my thoughts and prayers tonight in hopes that the road ahead will lead to something more positive.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by Linus

Wow. I'm glad that the insurance he has will cover it and, more importantly, that someone stopped your daughter from doing harm. I'll have her in my thoughts and prayers tonight in hopes that the road ahead will lead to something more positive.

Thank you Linus. We will take all the prayers we can get. I'm still shaking from the shock. I wouldn't be a teenager again for anything!

***yes I realize adults harm themselves...please be kind

[Laidbackgrly]

i cant stand walmart ive gone there 3 times since july i go only if i have too