Picking apart a femme

[Soft*Silver]

I was answering in the make up thread when I hit upon the notion of this thread. I had a BF who teased me about having a thin upper lip. He didnt like it. He likes nice full lips. But he loved me so he "accepted" it. But every now and then he would mention it. Once, in front of his friends, much to my horror. To me, "picking apart" a femme is akin to making notice of a male IDd butch's chest/breast size (no, I am not calling them breasts....but thats my point, to do so would "pick apart" the butch)

Have you ever felt picked apart? Dont post nastily. Alot of butches and FtMs just dont know what they are saying. Its part of being 2x4s or at least, not being femme so they dont know the sensitivity to such things. No names and no attacks. Lets educate and share our ouchies kindly....

[MrSunshine]

yes I have felt picked apart and I'm not femme. Does it still count? It's not like femmes don't pick apart too. I'm far from being "nastily" while saying this.

[MrSunshine]

Originally Posted by softness

Have you ever felt picked apart? Dont post nastily. Alot of butches and FtMs just dont know what they are saying. Its part of being 2x4s or at least, not being femme so they dont know the sensitivity to such things. No names and no attacks. Lets educate and share our ouchies kindly....

This part does not sit well AT ALL for ME.

If "education" is what you are looking for I can start by helping (i'm such a helper that way) by saying "alot" is not a word. A lot on the other hand is.
But hey, I'm just one of those "alot of butches that just don't know what I'm saying". Maybe, I'm just not "femme" enough or "sensitive" enough.

P.S This is NOT an attack. More of an example.

[Words]

Originally Posted by softness

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]To me, "picking apart" a femme is akin to making notice of a male IDd butch's chest/breast size (no, I am not calling them breasts....but thats my point, to do so would "pick apart" the butch)[COLOR]

And to assume that all male ID'd butches would object to having their chest/breasts referred to as breasts is just rude.

We're talking about individuals here.

Words

[Jesse]

I am thinking it may be best for you to speak from just your "me" place and not include how you think others may feel or think. This will help others to know what you are trying to express. Just sayin...

Originally Posted by softness

I was answering in the make up thread when I hit upon the notion of this thread. I had a BF who teased me about having a thin upper lip. He didnt like it. He likes nice full lips. But he loved me so he "accepted" it. But every now and then he would mention it. Once, in front of his friends, much to my horror. To me, "picking apart" a femme is akin to making notice of a male IDd butch's chest/breast size (no, I am not calling them breasts....but thats my point, to do so would "pick apart" the butch)

Have you ever felt picked apart? Dont post nastily. Alot of butches and FtMs just dont know what they are saying. Its part of being 2x4s or at least, not being femme so they dont know the sensitivity to such things. No names and no attacks. Lets educate and share our ouchies kindly....

[theoddz]

Ms. Softness, I know you are probably directing your questions to the Femmes here, but I have to say something about all people and being a decent human being, in general.

I think it is terrible form and an utter lack of common decency and manners for anyone, be they Butch, Femme, Trans, etc., to point out another person's physical characteristics in a disrespectful or demeaning way. No one is perfect, in either thought or deed, but to focus on another person's physical attributes as a way of cutting them down just seems to go beyond the beyonds of ill manners.....at least to me. I guess some folks need to demean others in order to feel better about themselves.

My Pop has always taught me that "Critical judgment is self judgment". When a person points a judgmental finger at another, three fingers point back at them.

Thank you for allowing me to comment in your thread.

Respectfully,
~Theo~

[Soft*Silver]

wow...talk about being insensitive! I am so sorry! I posted before my first cuppa coffee and will never do that again!

1) butches and FtMs can indeed be picked apart too...but I was relating to my experience as a femme and wanting other femmes to share

2) not every butch or FtM picks apart femmes. Thats like saying because some men rape, all men are rapists. Thats a generality that wasnt intended. I think you have read enough of my posts to know I am not anti male or anti butch

3) yes, not all male IDd butches would be offended by having their chest or breasts mentioned. Some would

4) and yes, not all femmes would feel picked apart by having their thin lips mentioned

5) but for those who are, or who have other examples, this thread was started

6) and some people dont need "educated" but some do. I am not assuming nor decrying that all Male IDd butches or FtMs need a handbook on sensitivity. My BF really didnt know he was hurting my feelings.Do you think he would have said it if he realized it? Even when I told him, he still didnt get it because he had no frame of reference.....he just didnt get it. But maybe reading it by a neutral femme other than me might have made him more sensitive to it.

7) again, I am so sorry. I still think, tho, that this thread could be helpful....

[Delish]

[QUOTE=theoddz;177377][FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="4"][COLOR="Black"]

My Pop has always taught me that "Critical judgment is self judgment". When a person points a judgmental finger at another, three fingers point back at them.

Sounds like your pop was a good man

Softness, I get what you are saying. I don't believe I have ever had it done to me, but I have had a friend that could never live up to her gf's "ideal" woman. She knew this going into the relationship but fell in love so hard it didn't matter. Eventually, her gf's comments pertaining to her size, hair color, length of hair ETC got old and they broke up. So far, the gf hasn't found anyone in her "league".
OH..and neither one of them are on this site

[lipstixgal]

I try not to pick apart anybody I have my own faults I'm short and overweight which isn't good but I do get by so I wouldn't want anyone to pick apart me. I had that with my own family and don't bother with them any longer because of it, just try to stay with friends who are supportive of my goals!!

[T D]

Welllllll, if someone made a point of saying something (especially in front of others) about my physical appearance that they consider a weakness or flaw (or whatever), I'd kick their ass to the curb. At some point in life I made a conscious decision that I "don't need this shit", and I don't. No one does!

[Soft*Silver]

TD...sometimes people say things and dont realize they are being insensitive (OH LORD i just did it myself! So anyone can do this!) This thread isnt about beating up on anyone...or abusiveness. This thread is about the "innocent" remarks people say when they arent thinking clearly or have no frame of reference to know this might be a sensitive area.

I too would dismiss anyone who was intentionally cruel or plain old nasty. My BF wasnt. He just didnt realize how it could affect me when my thin upper lip was pointed out...and even when I said it made me uncomfortable, he still didnt get it. He kept telling me he meant no harm. And he didnt. He loved me. He wasnt being a heel. He was just being...uhmmm....dense?

Originally Posted by T D

Welllllll, if someone made a point of saying something (especially in front of others) about my physical appearance that they consider a weakness or flaw (or whatever), I'd kick their ass to the curb. At some point in life I made a conscious decision that I "don't need this shit", and I don't. No one does!

[Liam]

I believe this example can apply to anyone, regardless of how they identify; I have encountered people who ask the same question, almost each time they speak to me—"are you really _______?" If they were over 70 or had dementia, I would not pay much attention to the repeated question, but when that isn't the case, and I have answered the question over and over faithfully, I feel like they are not interested in knowing the truth, and are invested somehow, in a different answer. It is most interesting that when I lie, and reply, "no," their questions regarding that particular subject end. Quite often, I never hear from them again. Good riddance, I say.

[SuperFemme]

Usually the picking apart for *me* happens by other Femmes. I have been mostly adored, respected, loved, and enjoyed friendships with other Femmes, Butches (of all ID's, Transmen, Transwomen, Human Beings and Nuns.

My insecurities do not equal a lack of sensitivity on the part of others.

[Soft*Silver]

I love this statement.

But in reality, I do have some insecurities and it is with my loved one that I need to feel the most secure with about them. I dont have huge insecurities. Not like I am a landmine course and any step can set off a (minor) ouchie, but sometimes, it does happen.

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Usually the picking apart for *me* happens by other Femmes. I have been mostly adored, respected, loved, and enjoyed friendships with other Femmes, Butches (of all ID's, Transmen, Transwomen, Human Beings and Nuns.

My insecurities do not equal a lack of sensitivity on the part of others.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by softness

I love this statement.

But in reality, I do have some insecurities and it is with my loved one that I need to feel the most secure with about them. I dont have huge insecurities. Not like I am a landmine course and any step can set off a (minor) ouchie, but sometimes, it does happen.

That is the thing Softness. I find for *me* that if I am with those who love me the most and my insecurities are going to be magnified by that love? I do well with bringing it up BEFORE it happens.

"I want you to know that if you make fun of my pot belly I'll stab your eyes out"

"If you ever call me four eyes, I'll give you two black eyes"

TeeHee.

[MrSunshine]

Originally Posted by MrSunshine

"alot" is not a word. A lot on the other hand is.

for fucks sake people quit picking me apart. my bad on wordage. a lot is TWO words, better all?

this message brought to you with love and shit

[Isadora]

One of my first rules of engagement is that I do not ever discuss issues of body, emotion or intellect in public about a partner.

There is nothing more uncomfortable than watching or hearing or being close to this kind of behavior. In fact, the last time this happened I figured it was a public arena and as the "public" I stepped forward and chose to shut it down. ("This is a party. I did not come to the party to listen to you call your wife names. You are a pig and not in nice way. So take your little butch ass out of here and leave her the fuck alone cause I am bigger then you and I will crush you like a walnut. Never, ever let the skirts fool you.") Oh yes. I did. I was amazed at how many people thanked me afterward. I was amazed that 30 people at a party being horrified by such behavior did not have the tits to, at least, attempt to stop it.

I think of it as a gender neutral kind of thang. It is called human behavior. Bad behavior but still human.

[sweetcali]

I wouldn't put it into one gender/identity category; however it does happen. I agree that some do do it intentionally and some don't. Some do it intentionally and try to play it off with a joke; however there is some personal responsibility with all of it. If my partner or someone close to me makes a remark that is one of those stabbing ouch remarks it is also up to me to let them know that that remark to hurt me. If it it continues then it is up to me to decide what I want to do with it. Is it the type that well it is me being oversensitive about my body or is it them being abusive in their "joking" way. Once I put that together I can then make the decision of do I kick them to the curb or leave it alone. Is it pure banter between good friends or is it intentional hurt.

Anyway in this situation I have the responsibility of telling them and making the decision.

sweetcal

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by sweetcali

I wouldn't put it into one gender/identity category; however it does happen. I agree that some do do it intentionally and some don't. Some do it intentionally and try to play it off with a joke; however there is some personal responsibility with all of it. If my partner or someone close to me makes a remark that is one of those stabbing ouch remarks it is also up to me to let them know that that remark to hurt me. If it it continues then it is up to me to decide what I want to do with it. Is it the type that well it is me being oversensitive about my body or is it them being abusive in their "joking" way. Once I put that together I can then make the decision of do I kick them to the curb or leave it alone. Is it pure banter between good friends or is it intentional hurt.

Anyway in this situation I have the responsibility of telling them and making the decision.

sweetcal

have i told you lately how beautiful you are?

[Soft*Silver]

Yes, I have been around people who nit pick each other to death in public. Makes me wonder what its like at home in private! I cant stand that kind of behavior! And I too wouldnt tolerate it. I am glad you came to that gal's rescue!

But, again, the tone of my thread is about unintentional "oopses" that people make because they just didnt understand it could be sensitive. Like, drawing attention to my thin lip. I know my BF was trying to tell me how much he loved me because it didnt make a difference to him, but pointing out the difference made me uncomfortable. I felt like he was settling, or at the least, deciding it wasnt an issue for him. But it was an issue for me, and even when I explained it bothered me he just kept talking to explain to me it wasnt his intent.

sometimes, one must just shut up and say "I hear you". Come to think of it, I didnt get alot of it in that relationship. But I did get alot of very good stuff from him ....the balance of good and not so good is another thread tho! LOL

Originally Posted by Isadora

One of my first rules of engagement is that I do not ever discuss issues of body, emotion or intellect in public about a partner.

There is nothing more uncomfortable than watching or hearing or being close to this kind of behavior. In fact, the last time this happened I figured it was a public arena and as the "public" I stepped forward and chose to shut it down. ("This is a party. I did not come to the party to listen to you call your wife names. You are a pig and not in nice way. So take your little butch ass out of here and leave her the fuck alone cause I am bigger then you and I will crush you like a walnut. Never, ever let the skirts fool you.") Oh yes. I did. I was amazed at how many people thanked me afterward. I was amazed that 30 people at a party being horrified by such behavior did not have the tits to, at least, attempt to stop it.
I think of it as a gender neutral kind of thang. It is called human behavior. Bad behavior but still human.