Gulf Oil Slick

[Linus]

I'm surprised we don't have a thread on this. And I figured might be worthwhile to discuss. Reading HP today I found this (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/16/us/16oil.html?hp):

Scientists are finding enormous oil plumes in the deep waters of the Gulf of Mexico, including one as large as 10 miles long, 3 miles wide and 300 feet thick in spots.

<snip>

BP has resisted entreaties from scientists that they be allowed to use sophisticated instruments at the ocean floor that would give a far more accurate picture of how much oil is really gushing from the well.


I think the gov't should slap them with a major fine and a cap on how far they can raise the prices due to the fine. This whole situation is appalling in how it's been dealt with and how the resolution to stop it has been going on. All 3 of the companies CEos should be made to swim through that crap.

More than ever, it has made me NOT want to get a license and drive a car. :angry:

[Medusa]

I am absolutely SICK over this and completely PISSED OFF that these companies think they have the fucking RIGHT to keep scientists from observing, taking photos, or doing experiments while there are millions of gallons of oils just spilling out into the ocean.

I cringe to think of how many sea creatures and birds will be dead because of this. There already has been reports of dead dolphins, shrimp, and fish and many articles say that the fishing industry off the gulf may be so damaged it might never recover.

[Soon]

I have to space my reading of articles on this tragedy out; it's too much.

Apparently, Obama gave the companies a piece of his mind the other day. I haven't watched it yet, though.

[BestButchBoy]

It is an oceanic holocaust that will have an exponential effect on all of life as we now currently know it. To think otherwise, I believe, is to delude oneself.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gulf_oil_spill

[Blade]

I agree Linus the government should freeze gas prices coming from BP. It seems there should be something BP or the government could do to stop the leak. I can't believe nobody had a disaster relief plan in place for this. I mean we didn't just start drilling a few years ago, it's been a long time and most companies have a disaster relief plan or a OSHA regulated or EPA regulated plan for emergencies.

I'm about tired of paying $2.89 for gas and it is summer and it is going up. I was only paying $1.60 this time last year. Can you imagine how much they will jack up the price of gas when government fines and EPA fines and the cost of clean up effect their bottom line?

[Medusa]

Im admittedly pretty ignorant over the who and what of this situation but if BP is owned by the Brits at least in some part, are they required to help cleanup the spill and fix the leak?
Or is BP a private entity owned by a Brit, therefore making the British government not responsible for anything?

[Linus]

Im admittedly pretty ignorant over the who and what of this situation but if BP is owned by the Brits at least in some part, are they required to help cleanup the spill and fix the leak?
Or is BP a private entity owned by a Brit, therefore making the British government not responsible for anything?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BP

They are private.. and they are a big private.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I am horrified over this oil spill. It is nothing like what BP originally stated, and then the pictures came out...my heart sank. Mother Nature is pissed. This has and will continue to change the face of our oceans, animals, and our way of life for generations.

This is just another example of corporate greed.

[Blade]

Yes the ecological system has and will continue to take a huge hit from this. Sad thing is BP doesn't seem to care. I bet they'd give a rats ass if the Feds cut off their ability to sell gas until it was cleaned up. I know they wouldn't do that because that wouldn't be good for the unemployment since most stores are open 24 hrs and that would effect a lot of people economically.

Some where someone has an idea to get BP stepping up to the plate in a manner that will stop this leak and start the clean up and restoring of the ocean and its inhabitants.

[Medusa]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BP

They are private.. and they are a big private.

Now see, this is what bothers me about them refusing to allow scientists to view the leak. If they are PRIVATE, who the fuck are they to tell someone that they cant go down to the ocean floor. BP doesnt own that part of the ocean, right?
Who the fuck are THEY to tell anyone that they can't observe all the damage that their company is doing to the environment.

Im crazy pissed about this and cant believe that its been gushing for 2 fucking weeks and still NO end in sight.

[Andrew, Jr.]

No end in sight. And the latest with the long tube going into the sputing well failed as well. We are still at Ground Zero. I think BP needs to open up all connections and take the publics ideas. This is not the same world as it was 2 years ago or 5 years ago. I know I won't be buying their products.

[weatherboi]

Thanks Linus for opening this thread!!!

I am intimately acquainted with the Gulf Coast. I have spent many a houseboat vacations putting up and down Cayo Costa seashore. I also have spent many September weekends diving for scallops in the Steinhatchee area of Florida. I gave a quick call to check in with the owners of the place I stay when I go scalloping. Now this is the Northern coast before the panhandle just along the south end of the curve of Florida panhandle. She told me they were already seeing birds and animal life coming in contact with oil. She said there will be no scalloping business for her this year. She was very upset. She was born and raised there. After getting off the phone with her I got pretty nervous calling the couple that owns the houseboat rental business I use when I go down there. They realized right away when this happened how it is going to ruin their business. I could hear her voice cracking when we talked about the animals and plant life that will be wiped out. I may not care for the politics of my state but I can say I have had a love affair with Floridas waterways and all they have to offer since i was a small child. I am sad over this!!!!

[Rockinonahigh]

When the platform sank they said there was NO leak,then we had a BIG leak and it has gone on far to long.They keep trying new things to stop it but I know they have got a centerfuge machine that can suck up sea water and oil and separate the two..WHY ARENT THEY USEING IT????The well owners, who ever they are,have screwd up the ecosysten of my state for generations to come.If they had used some things I have herd about like paper shreded that will soak up oil or big nylon bags to store the spill in by sucking up the oil and sea water into it.They store oil and gas in these things and float them out in the ocean..its should work for this as well.Now how do I know this..My X was,last time I saw him was into big oil as an exutive and has showd me the things mentioned..years ago.

[Andrew, Jr.]

This is what I mean. They have to know what to do. Something is up. I feel like a hostage.

[Jett]

Animals Caught in Gulf Oil Spill: How you can Help (http://abcnews.go.com/WN/gulf-mexico-oil-spill-animals-cleanup/story?id=10521929)

A Matter of Trust (http://matteroftrust.org/)

[Spirit Dancer]

Thanks Linus for opening this thread!!!

I am intimately acquainted with the Gulf Coast. I have spent many a houseboat vacations putting up and down Cayo Costa seashore. I also have spent many September weekends diving for scallops in the Steinhatchee area of Florida. I gave a quick call to check in with the owners of the place I stay when I go scalloping. Now this is the Northern coast before the panhandle just along the south end of the curve of Florida panhandle. She told me they were already seeing birds and animal life coming in contact with oil. She said there will be no scalloping business for her this year. She was very upset. She was born and raised there. After getting off the phone with her I got pretty nervous calling the couple that owns the houseboat rental business I use when I go down there. They realized right away when this happened how it is going to ruin their business. I could hear her voice cracking when we talked about the animals and plant life that will be wiped out. I may not care for the politics of my state but I can say I have had a love affair with Floridas waterways and all they have to offer since i was a small child. I am sad over this!!!!

WB
We were recently there in the Panhandle and yes there were brids and sealife coming to shore via the tides, dead covered in oil. my heart breaks for our sea life and the businesses. It's also true business is going to suffer BIG TIME the shrimpers were venting at the local Marina and it wasn't pleasant to hear.
Someone needs to step up PDQ and take accountability. Let whomever necessary tell BIG MONEY how to CLEAN this mess up.

[Rockinonahigh]

Andrew..yesterday I filld up my car at the circleK for $2.89 a galon....ouch! Hostage isnt the word ,if the prices are this nigh now ,godess help us by time this is over.

[Boots13]

This is a catastrophe of such proportions we will feel the impact of the devastation for decades.

How many times did we campaign against this? I cant believe the impunity private enterprise has shown, despite the concerns and warnings from us "tree-huggers". Such denial in thinking that this would or could never happen has set them up for the catastrophe we are all experiencing now.

I am sick over what has been done, and despite any entity's best effort, the oil continues to flow.

[Andrew, Jr.]

See this is what I don't understand. As a youngster I was pounded into a pulp about being responsible, and respectful of nature. And here I am with my 2 great nephews asking me why the grown ups aren't doing anything. I just am at a loss of what to say. Really, I have no idea of what to say because here on the East Coast there is nothing shown being done that is slowing down the flow of oil, or cleaning up the spill. Everything is like this and that. Nothing of real importance. I am just so upset over this event, and everyone knows it.

Rockinonahigh,
Gas here is about the same price. It is a dent in my wallet each week.

[Medusa]

I am trying to do some research to find out how BP and other oil companies get approval to drill so close to our shores and the shores of Mexico and islands in the Carribean.
Anyone know where to look?

[Sachita]

they should not only freeze prices but be forced to sell at a discount but then we'd have to worry about the government giving them a bail out for losing money. lol

it's such shit really but mistakes happen but on this scale the consequences should be huge because the impact of that mistake is also huge.

I love Steinhatchee. They should be responsible for a relief fund where small businesses like this are supported.

[MsDemeanor]

I am trying to do some research to find out how BP and other oil companies get approval to drill so close to our shores and the shores of Mexico and islands in the Carribean.
Anyone know where to look?
Permits are issued by the Minerals Management Service. This is perhaps the most corrupt federal agency in our country. They issue the permits, and they also collect the fees from oil drilling. Scandals have abounded for years - sleeping together (literally), snorting speed off a toaster oven (my personal favorite), and just all around partying and playing together. Google Minerals Management Service and prepare to be shocked.

By the way, in the week after Obama said no more permits for offshore drilling would be issued, MMS issued at least 5 new permits, including one in Alaska. If ever there were an agency that needed to be completely disbanded and rebuilt from the ground up, this is it.

[Cowboi]

This oil spill will destroy Louisiana's Coastal Wetlands, and Estuaries for decades to come. Bayous full of generation after generation of shrimpers, and fisherman. All will be out of jobs. They don't know any other life. Many of them have never been out of the state of Louisiana. BP should have to pay dearly. It all brings tears to my eyes, and makes me sick to my stomach.

[violaine]

http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=6&contentId=7019358

responses-

http://www.bp.com/extendedsectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=40&co
ntentId=7061813

per msdemeanor-
http://www.mms.gov/

[AtLast]

This is a catastrophe of such proportions we will feel the impact of the devastation for decades.

How many times did we campaign against this? I cant believe the impunity private enterprise has shown, despite the concerns and warnings from us "tree-huggers". Such denial in thinking that this would or could never happen has set them up for the catastrophe we are all experiencing now.

I am sick over what has been done, and despite any entity's best effort, the oil continues to flow.

I keep remembering walking the shores in Valdez, Alaska in 2003 (a long time after the spill there) and rolling over rocks with oil deposits.... Although Exxon was found liable, the people there losing their livelihood as well as what it did to the environment and critters - it has still not paid up. There are eco-systems lost there that will never return. Oh, and the cruise ships still pump sewage into the waters, there.

The impact of the environmental devastation will never stop..... they are now using chemicals to try to stop the flow, and synthetic materials...

Also, the 11 people that died on that rig were blown to hell. Others are suffering from severe PTSD. Why are we going to continue to do off-shore drilling just due to this loss of life? Oh, that's right, coal-mining companies that cut corners, block labor unions, etc. are also a dime a dozen...

But, you know, there are senators in Congress trying to block off-shore wind energy fields primarily due to bird losses... Yes, I care about birds but data demonstrates that wind energy bird losses are minimal.

I do not know what all the possible problems could be with wind energy (or so-called clean-coal, but just can't help but think about the mega-billion dollar oil industry will not lose in the end.

I have made personal changes in my own energy use, but until we all do, nothing much is going to change. There are some new solar hot water residential systems now out that can be financed at zero interest rates- take a look! But, yes, its damn hard for most of us in this economy to even think about these kinds of changes. Soooooo... how about big-buck corporations having to make changes on their buildings?

You know, that pipe may never be able to be corked! And BP is far more interested in what it is losing in sweet crude. They will probably gain a means to re-build that rig as the only means to divert that oil. And the fact remains that that area is far too deep to drill in and have any kind of safety surrounding it. It never should have been able to be there in the first place. Do you see any efforts to shut-down all this rigs in this heightened risk area?

And…. To date, we still have no way to dispose of nuclear waste generated by nuclear power plants. But, you can bet there is going to be a big campaign (billions toward lobbying) to build more of these plants.

[MsDemeanor]

This is much bigger than the gulf. The oil and chemicals will drift from the Gulf Stream out in to the Atlantic, where they will join with the North Atlantic Drift, eventually impacting the entire Atlantic Ocean, North America, and coastal Europe.

linkyloo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream)
The Gulf Stream, together with its northern extension towards Europe, the North Atlantic Drift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Current), is a powerful, warm, and swift Atlantic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Ocean) ocean current (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_current)Gulf of Mexico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Mexico), exits through the Strait of Florida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straits_of_Florida), and follows the eastern coastlines of the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) and Newfoundland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_and_Labrador) before crossing the Atlantic Ocean. that originates in the

Here's a nice visual linkyloo (http://www.geomorphology.org.uk/pages/education/alevel/coldenvirons/Gulfstream.htm)

[MsDemeanor]

By the way, those chemicals being used to disperse the oil? The formulas and ingredients are protected, so we have no way of knowing what is in them. The companies refuse to divulge the information.

[Andrew, Jr.]

After 26 days of pumping oil into our beautiful ocean, and destroying such creation, I am truely devistated over this distruction. So many lives and creatures are affected and effected. I am sick over this. Just sick.

[AtLast]

By the way, those chemicals being used to disperse the oil? The formulas and ingredients are protected, so we have no way of knowing what is in them. The companies refuse to divulge the information.

Bet Dick Cheny knows what they are and what is in them! Probably will get a kick-back off them.

The whole idea that someting that is developed to break down sweet crude could possibly not be harmful is just nuts! And I am sure that future generations will be posting on-line about birth defects, cancers, etc. resulting from these chemicals getting into the food-chain.

And we worry about foreign terroists destroying us!

[Jet]

Worry that Gulf oil spreading into major current

Latest news from the Associated Press

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100517/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill

[Diavolo]

I wrote a response to this over on my personal site. Sometimes I write a decent paragraph, the last was one is my favorite.
As long as there are oil rigs off shore, there will be accidents. As long as we consume foreign oil, there will be war in the Middle East. The solution is engineering and alternative fuel sources. It’s time that we quit being a bunch of self centered bloated petulant children and started behaving as if we cared about our planet and each other.

[torchiegirl]

It is a shame that the eventual fine/cost will be ours to bear. Will it ever have an impact on those who are at the helm of the sinking ship, so to speak? Seems someone other than the responsible party ends up paying the price of recovery.

[AtLast]

Every day I get more depressed and ...angry about this...and think about how much my grand daughters love to fish and camp, hike, be among the trees. What will their lives be like 10 years from now... 15, 20.....? If they choose to be biological parents, will their kids be born healthy?

[SuperFemme]

Right. The underground spill is bigger than MANHATTAN. That is almost too much to think about, and it is heading over to FL and up the atlantic coast.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I am sick over this. And the BP Corporate big wigs just talk and talk and talk while still reeling in huge paychecks.

[Glenn]

Now this Trail of Tears is being caused by robots they say..in search of black gold. Skulldrudgery!

[AtLast]

By the way, those chemicals being used to disperse the oil? The formulas and ingredients are protected, so we have no way of knowing what is in them. The companies refuse to divulge the information.
I am thinking future birth defects as the crap gets into the food chain...


Further, it appears that BP will not allow any other oil company people to aid in the efforts to stop the flow. So... what the hell are they hiding about what they are using?

OK, I am thinking that the Obama administration needs to put some kind of hold/lein/judgement on BP's financial accounts (well, if this can be done) after all the finger pointing during the hearings to pass the buck. It will be years of litigation before the fault is determined and payments are made for damages.

This is so very serious!

[Andrew, Jr.]

Jack,

You are so right. My neighbor told me this morning that they are planning on digging or drilling in Alaska now. Is this true?

Money is the root of all evil. I have seen this happen time after time.

[Apocalipstic]

Its insanity!

They had zero plan if something went wrong! The plans they have to fix it sound like things a 5th grade science class would come up with...Top Hat? Cork? Bendy Straw?

None of this sounds very scientific.

And Halliburton all up on the middle of it.

SICKENING!

We all need to cut back on our oil consumption, until we do...this type of thing will continue.

I don't even care about gas prices, it's the environmental impact and the fact that they have zero clue what to do to fix it.

[Jet]

It’s time that we quit being a bunch of self centered bloated petulant children ......[/INDENT]

who is we?

[Apocalipstic]

who is we?

Maybe people who drive cars with bad gas mileage and use tons of oil by products then whine about the environment and gas prices?

The oil has got to come from somewhere if we are going to continue to use it at the rates we are.

[Spirit Dancer]

Gulf Fishing: Oil Spill To Shut Down 19 Percent Of Area, More Than Double Original Closure
MELISSA NELSON | 05/18/10 05:23 PM |


PENSACOLA BEACH, Fla. — The sign outside the Pensacola Beach marina says "We're Still Fishing," but that's not really true.

The federal government announced Tuesday it is nearly tripling the size of an area in the Gulf of Mexico that's closed to fishing because of a massive oil spill off the coast of Louisiana.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said it was closing nearly 46,000 square miles, or about 19 percent of federal waters, beginning at 6 p.m.

That's up from the 7 percent of the Gulf that's been closed to fishing boats since shortly after an offshore oil rig exploded April 20, killing 11 workers. Rig operator BP PLC estimates that the blown-out well has leaked more than 5 million gallons.

The spill has scared off charter fishing customers at the marina here, even though the water they'd normally trawl is still open to fishing. The 30 boats were almost all tied to their slips Tuesday and Jerry Andrews, the captain of the Entertainer, had the dock to himself.

"Usually you'd see 15 or 20 people walking up and down out here asking about the fishing. Three-fourths of these slips would be empty," said Andrews, a Pensacola native who has been fishing here for 34 years.

The expanded ban covers an area that starts near the Louisiana coast and moves southeast in a diagonal line. From Mississippi to Pensacola, the ban starts about 30 miles offshore. It begins moving away from shore at the Florida-Alabama border. At its eastern end south of Apalachicola, about the midpoint of the Florida Panhandle, the ban starts about 160 miles offshore.

Andrews said that before the spill he was getting between 30 and 40 calls and e-mails a day asking about chartering his boat and his customers were catching their full quotas of vermilion snapper, triggerfish, amberjack and grouper.

But in the month since the spill, he gets hired for one or two trips a week, tops, even though he can still go out the 20 miles he normally travels. Most of his customers, who come from Alabama and Georgia, are now going to the Carolinas.

He said BP, as part of its plan to help coastal businesses harmed by the spill, has paid him $5,000 and the oil giant has promised further help, but he doesn't know when that's coming.

To Harlon Pearce, chairman of the Louisiana Seafood Promotion and Marketing Board, the latest closure is as much a public relations problem as an impediment to business. He stressed that seafood from the areas not closed is still available and safe to eat. Roughly 60 percent of the state's oyster production areas were still open, Pearce said, and he expected the expanded federal closure to affect fishermen working off the Alabama and Mississippi coasts more than those from Louisiana.

Then there was Florida. Fifty miles to the east of Pensacola, a sign outside the Panhandle tourist hub of Destin welcomes visitors to "The World's Luckiest Fishing Village." Generations of families have gone on fishing excursions while vacationing along the white sandy beaches. The boats return each evening and display the largest snapper, grouper or other fish from the day's catch for passers-by to photograph and admire.

David Krebs, who owns a local seafood market, said the town is tired and frustrated by the continued restrictions and lack of information about the spill.

Local fishermen are catching plenty of fish in non-restricted areas closer to shore, the weather is great, the fish are healthy and the beaches are oil-free, Krebs said.

But the perception that oil has already hit and seafood is unsafe has devastated the tourist-driven economy, he said.

"This is just more fear factor and hype," he said, "but if people are afraid to come on vacation here now and there was already this big wonderment about the economy anyway then the perception is everything."




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/18/gulf-oil-spill-to-shut-do_n_580302.html

[Spirit Dancer]

Yet another snafu with the repair out in the gulf.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100602/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill


By GREG BLUESTEIN and BRIAN SKOLOFF, Associated Press Writers Greg Bluestein And Brian Skoloff, Associated Press Writers – 58 mins ago
PORT FOURCHON, La. – As the crude crept closer to Florida, the risky effort to contain the nation's worst oil spill hit a snag Wednesday when a diamond-edged saw became stuck in a thick pipe on a blown-out well at the bottom of the Gulf.

Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen said the goal was to free the saw and finish the cut later in the day. This is the latest attempt to contain — not plug — the gusher. The best chance at stopping the leak is a relief well, which is at least two months from completion.

"I don't think the issue is whether or not we can make the second cut. It's about how fine we can make it, how smooth we can make it," Allen said.

If the cut is not as smooth as engineers would like, they would be forced to put a looser fitting cap on top of the oil spewing out. This cut-and-cap effort could temporarily increase the flow of oil by as much as 20 percent, though Allen said officials wouldn't know whether that had happened until the cut could be completed.

Engineers may have to bring in a second saw awaiting on a boat, but it was not immediately clear how long that could delay the operation. Live video of the saw showed oil spitting out of the new cut, and crews were shooting chemicals to try to disperse the crude. The cap could be placed over the spill as early as Wednesday.

The effort underwater was going on as oil drifted close to the Florida Panhandle's white sand beaches for the first time and investors ran from BP's stock for a second day, reacting to the company's weekend failure to plug the leak by shooting mud and cement into the well, known as the top kill.

The Justice Department also has announced it started criminal and civil probes into the spill, although the department did not name specific targets for prosecution.

Shares in British-based BP PLC were down 3 percent Wednesday morning in London trading after a 13 percent fall the day before. BP has lost $75 billion in market value since the spill started with an April 20 oil rig explosion and analysts expect damage claims to total billions more.

In Florida, oil was about seven miles south of Pensacola beach, Allen said.

Thunderstorms were making it difficult to track the slick, Escambia County emergency director John Dosh said, and officials hoped the weather would clear so they could get an aerial view.

"We are looking at a Wednesday to Friday shoreline impact, but there is a line of uncertainty that depends on the wave action and the winds," Dosh said.

"Today we are in a monitoring mode."

[NJFemmie]

I don't know about other areas, but around here, Exxon gas prices are the HIGHEST around. Know why? Because those that fueled up at Exxon paid for their oil spill in Alaska. In fact, Exxon was sued billions of dollars, but court settled for maybe 513M. That was barely the cost to "clean up". Very few Alaskans received monetary damages as promised (if any, honestly) - and they are still suffering the effects of that disaster. They've ushered some species of animals into extinction.

It would be nice to think that the government will fine BP up their ass for this, but reality is, they will find a way to get out of it. Sure looks good on paper, but I doubt they will pay a fraction of what they should for this - and like someone said - it will trickle down to the consumer.

What I can't believe is, this is far bigger than Exxon Valdez now, yet, BP IS STILL CALLING THE SHOTS. How does that happen?

[Andrew, Jr.]

The CEO of BP tells the media he wants his life back. WTF?

Then the fisherman, their families/crews, are moving to new fishing grounds off Texas. It seems that BP doesn't want to do anything to stop the flow of oil, at least that is the perception I am receiving from all of BP and BP's management.

Where is President Obama in this? He could have been there over the Memorial Day Holiday excusing him from his responsibilities at The Naval Academy and Arlington Cemetary whereby Vice President Biden gave the speeches. I guess maybe July 4th President Obama will pick up the pace. I am so disappointed in him.

I guess we all will be soon swimming in pools instead of oceans, bays, lakes, and so on. We are just killing the planet.

[Rockinonahigh]

So the head of bp wants his life back,how rich is that?What about the people that this oil spill is efeting??This mess is ruining the lives of anyone who makes a liveing on the gulf or lives there..heck now ppl are getting sick from the fumes or whatever is doing it.All we have been told is mostly lies about this issue from the beganing,first we didnt have a leak them we have the leak from hell,wich is contenueing and has no end in sight.BP has been grossly neglegent(sp??) in all of this and will contenue to cover there ass till hell freezes over.On the news I herd that the ppl who have been hired have to sign a gag order to work for them in the clean up,one of the wives was on cnn,she said to hell with BP if she had to be the one to tell the world what they had to do to work she would..good for her.
WE all know he gulf is ruined and will be for generations to come,BP could give a shit,I personaly feel the gov should hold BP in recevership and put the hammer down on them to fix this mess they created.Yes,im pissed,they are runing my state,its people,our water ways and fisheries.Dam BP to efin hell for what they have done and will contenue to do unless our goverment dose something.Obama get off your ass and quit makeing photo shoots for publicity..step on BP's butt now before they drop the ball again and compleatly.
Dam that felt good to get off my chest.Please what ever powers that be save our gulf cause its turning into a cauldron of oil.

[AtLast]

So the head of bp wants his life back,how rich is that?What about the people that this oil spill is efeting??This mess is ruining the lives of anyone who makes a liveing on the gulf or lives there..heck now ppl are getting sick from the fumes or whatever is doing it.All we have been told is mostly lies about this issue from the beganing,first we didnt have a leak them we have the leak from hell,wich is contenueing and has no end in sight.BP has been grossly neglegent(sp??) in all of this and will contenue to cover there ass till hell freezes over.On the news I herd that the ppl who have been hired have to sign a gag order to work for them in the clean up,one of the wives was on cnn,she said to hell with BP if she had to be the one to tell the world what they had to do to work she would..good for her.
WE all know he gulf is ruined and will be for generations to come,BP could give a shit,I personaly feel the gov should hold BP in recevership and put the hammer down on them to fix this mess they created.Yes,im pissed,they are runing my state,its people,our water ways and fisheries.Dam BP to efin hell for what they have done and will contenue to do unless our goverment dose something.Obama get off your ass and quit makeing photo shoots for publicity..step on BP's butt now before they drop the ball again and compleatly.
Dam that felt good to get off my chest.Please what ever powers that be save our gulf cause its turning into a cauldron of oil.

I know, that guy is one of the most arrogant SOBs on earth! Hey, billionaire mentality at its finest!

Why anyone would think that huge oil companies give a flying fuck about shorelines, birds, wetlands, estuaries, the fishing industry, etc. is beyond me.

Our government doesn't have the knowledge or skills, or equipment to deal with this. We are subject to the whims of these assholes. THAT is what needs to change. Oil drilling needs to be part of the government, not private industry. And the chances of this happening are not good.

The only thing the federal government can do is sue and make criminal charges. As far as having the experts, equipment and know-how to plug that pipe, forget it.

Now, cleaning-up and making certain BP is liable to all the folks that are loosing their livelihoods, that is a different matter. And I hope to hell they are not just tossed to the wind like in Valdez and the Katrina catastrophe (which was not an act of God, the storm did not hit N.O., the damn levies broke that were built by the Army Corp).

I feel your frustration and I am sickened by this, but, it is a wake-up call about deep water oil drilling. Most of the technology being used to try and stop that leak have never been tested under these conditions by anyone (governmental or private industry). So, why the hell did BP and all the other oil companies get permission to build oil rigs out there?

Take a look at the corruption within this entire industry and government entities for the answers.

I'd love to see BP officials taken into custody for criminal charges that would actually result in prision time... but not until the damn leak is contained. We are at their mercy right now. And the Gulf region has been changed forever. There are types of fish that are still not back in the waterways of Valdez.

[dreadgeek]

By the way, those chemicals being used to disperse the oil? The formulas and ingredients are protected, so we have no way of knowing what is in them. The companies refuse to divulge the information.

The thing is, nature *may* already have a solution. See below:


Bet Dick Cheny knows what they are and what is in them! Probably will get a kick-back off them.

The whole idea that someting that is developed to break down sweet crude could possibly not be harmful is just nuts! And I am sure that future generations will be posting on-line about birth defects, cancers, etc. resulting from these chemicals getting into the food-chain.

And we worry about foreign terroists destroying us!

There are bacteria that have evolved--without interference from humans--the ability to break down oil naturally. These microbes exist *now*. They are soil bacteria but anywhere there are large collections of oil it is possible to find them in the soil. Now, admittedly, it would be ideal if nature had thought to make oil-eating bacteria that lived in salt water but since there are bacteria that DO live in salt-water (bacteria live everywhere) and since bacteria, over a billion years ago, hit on the very, very cool trick of simply trading genes across different species (as if that word means a lot to bacteria) it seems to me to be a relatively trivial exercise to introduce the oil-eating bacteria to some salt-water dwelling bacteria and, in a remarkably short amount of time* we'd have a salt-water dwelling bacteria that eats oil. Introduce them to the spill and let the feasting begin.

Now, I know that some folks are going to say "hold on, wouldn't this be just as dangerous" to which I say "not necessarily", here's why.

1) As far as introducing the gene although it would be more efficient to simply find the gene(s) for salt-water dwelling and insert it into a colony of oil-eating bacteria, we probably don't have to do that. Nature could probably get there *almost* as fast because of the really fast bacterial generation. (The average bacterial species will go through in a year the same number of generations as there have been homo sapiens generations--roughly 20,000 or so)

2) If we're *really* worried about it, then we could engineer in a 'kill-switch'. Give them N amount of time to live after which cell division stops or something else which causes the bacteria to become inert.

This isn't science fiction, folks. The bacteria already exist and nature hit upon the idea first. The genetic engineering (if any) that might be necessary is *well* within what we know how to do and know how to do safely (as opposed to, say, deep water oil drilling). It's a non-toxic solution. The byproducts are methanol (alcohol), water and carbon dioxide. The CO_2 would be in the ocean where it *doesn't* contribute to global warming (and tends to get locked up as a calcium carbonate in the shells of mollusks). This is a win-win solution that is viable now.

[dreadgeek]

The CEO of BP tells the media he wants his life back. WTF?

Then the fisherman, their families/crews, are moving to new fishing grounds off Texas. It seems that BP doesn't want to do anything to stop the flow of oil, at least that is the perception I am receiving from all of BP and BP's management.

Where is President Obama in this? He could have been there over the Memorial Day Holiday excusing him from his responsibilities at The Naval Academy and Arlington Cemetary whereby Vice President Biden gave the speeches. I guess maybe July 4th President Obama will pick up the pace. I am so disappointed in him.

I guess we all will be soon swimming in pools instead of oceans, bays, lakes, and so on. We are just killing the planet.


I'm curious, outside of photo-ops what precisely do you expect the President to do here? I'm not making excuses but OTHER than a photo op what would he bring to the table? This is outside of his subject-matter expertise and he *has* sent, for example, Steven Chu down to the Gulf because Dr. Chu is a physicist and has better understanding about this subject matter than does the President.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

who is we?

If you drive a car or use plastics then it includes you. The only people on the planet who get an exemption on THIS (and only on this) are those few populations still living a hunting-gathering-fishing lifestyle. Everyone else, pretty much, uses petroleum-based products in some form or another.

Cheers
Aj

[AtLast]

The thing is, nature *may* already have a solution. See below:



There are bacteria that have evolved--without interference from humans--the ability to break down oil naturally. These microbes exist *now*. They are soil bacteria but anywhere there are large collections of oil it is possible to find them in the soil. Now, admittedly, it would be ideal if nature had thought to make oil-eating bacteria that lived in salt water but since there are bacteria that DO live in salt-water (bacteria live everywhere) and since bacteria, over a billion years ago, hit on the very, very cool trick of simply trading genes across different species (as if that word means a lot to bacteria) it seems to me to be a relatively trivial exercise to introduce the oil-eating bacteria to some salt-water dwelling bacteria and, in a remarkably short amount of time* we'd have a salt-water dwelling bacteria that eats oil. Introduce them to the spill and let the feasting begin.

Now, I know that some folks are going to say "hold on, wouldn't this be just as dangerous" to which I say "not necessarily", here's why.

1) As far as introducing the gene although it would be more efficient to simply find the gene(s) for salt-water dwelling and insert it into a colony of oil-eating bacteria, we probably don't have to do that. Nature could probably get there *almost* as fast because of the really fast bacterial generation. (The average bacterial species will go through in a year the same number of generations as there have been homo sapiens generations--roughly 20,000 or so)

2) If we're *really* worried about it, then we could engineer in a 'kill-switch'. Give them N amount of time to live after which cell division stops or something else which causes the bacteria to become inert.

This isn't science fiction, folks. The bacteria already exist and nature hit upon the idea first. The genetic engineering (if any) that might be necessary is *well* within what we know how to do and know how to do safely (as opposed to, say, deep water oil drilling). It's a non-toxic solution. The byproducts are methanol (alcohol), water and carbon dioxide. The CO_2 would be in the ocean where it *doesn't* contribute to global warming (and tends to get locked up as a calcium carbonate in the shells of mollusks). This is a win-win solution that is viable now.

An example of how science can kick butt! Now, I ask, is there the funding for the scientists that can make headway here? We don't seem to pump $ into our educational and research arenas like we do into oil production!!

And, last night after watching stuff on TV about the spill, I opened a box of cereal. As I was pulling apart the plastic-based pouch the cereal is in, I thought.... Hummmm, petroleum based product.... I opened up some other cabinets in the kitchen and looked in the fridge... plastic containers, kitchen appliances with plastic parts, plastic handles on some of my cooking ware pots... And the best slap in my face are all the plastic parts involved in all of the solar products I have installed!

It just isn't a matter of conserving gas and oil in our vehicles..... or switching to hybrids and electric cars and trucks. Ummm... which have a shit-ton of petroleum-based plastics in them!

Oh, and then there are the plastic recycling bins .....

And all of these products can be manufactured green via our tech know-how, but costs prevent our doing so. Now, where the hell are our priorities. That's right, buying cheap products from Asia made by people treated like shit and paid shit!

Whenever I get on my personal eco high horse, I take a look around my home and try to figure out how I can actually change some things in my little world. Not easy at all, given what drives our economy in a global sense. When I think about a future remodel of my kitchen and bathroom, I have found recycled glass counter tops, cabinets made without harmful chemicals and a garbage disposal system that is actually a composter, toilets that are waterless and composting and made from new less harmful plastics, tankless water heaters, energy-star washer & dryers, etc. The costs involved are about 50% higher than the usual appliances. So, my saving-up for these projects has to be increased. Also, as appliances break (i.e., washer & dryer, water heater), I can replace them with more eco-friendly ones prior to the whole remodel job. When I insulated my home, I used eco-friendly material and guess what? It actually was less expensive!

In the last 2 years, I have cut my electric and gas bill by over 20% with very simple changes. I don’t need a scalding shower and the degree water needs to be for sanitizing dishes is not that high!

Rebate and loan programs are available to help cut costs with these kinds of things. it’s the thinking part that takes work in making changes. And we need to fund the science that develops alternatives.

[Toughy]

BP IS STILL CALLING THE SHOTS. How does that happen?

I see two parts to this question.

First concerning stopping the hemorrhage of oil and gas: The reason BP is calling the shots is they have the technology, expertise and equipment. In other words they have the capability and capacity, along with Haliburton and TransOcean. They just haven't done this at 5,000ft....and are failing miserably with 31 yr old technology that did not work in 1979 when this happened in the Gulf and that was in about 200ft of water. That hemmorage lasted 9 months until the relief well was completed. That capability and capacity does not exist within the state and federal governments.

Second concerning mitigating the environmental damage. BP should not be calling the shots. The US government should be in charge of that. Unfortunately........BP is calling the shots. I am truly pissed Obama didn't step up and declare a national emergency and take over this aspect. This should be a FEMA response.

[AtLast]

I see two parts to this question.

First concerning stopping the hemorrhage of oil and gas: The reason BP is calling the shots is they have the technology, expertise and equipment. In other words they have the capability and capacity, along with Haliburton and TransOcean. They just haven't done this at 5,000ft....and are failing miserably with 31 yr old technology that did not work in 1979 when this happened in the Gulf and that was in about 200ft of water. That hemmorage lasted 9 months until the relief well was completed. That capability and capacity does not exist within the state and federal governments.

Second concerning mitigating the environmental damage. BP should not be calling the shots. The US government should be in charge of that. Unfortunately........BP is calling the shots. I am truly pissed Obama didn't step up and declare a national emergency and take over this aspect. This should be a FEMA response.

Good points.

Even though I would love some fantastical mega-boss in charge of this whole mess, it isn't possible.

BP (espeially the CEO) makes me sick. However, this just isn't a single-entity situation in terms of regulation and responsibility.

[MsMerrick]

The CEO of BP tells the media he wants his life back. WTF?




Maybe if he can restore the 11 lives, already lost...... Then he can have his back.,...
This was negligent homicide.

[Daryn]

I'd love to see BP officials taken into custody for criminal charges that would actually result in prision time... but not until the damn leak is contained. We are at their mercy right now. And the Gulf region has been changed forever. There are types of fish that are still not back in the waterways of Valdez.

One could make the argument for negligent homocide charges for the lives of the 11 workers that were lost in this. Who would get tagged for those charges would be an interesting legal debate... but it's not out of the realm of legal possibility to prosecute on those grounds....

************************************************** *
I am not a lawyer but I play the devil's advocate from time to time

[dreadgeek]

An example of how science can kick butt! Now, I ask, is there the funding for the scientists that can make headway here? We don't seem to pump $ into our educational and research arenas like we do into oil production!!

A

This is why I am concerned for the direction our country is taking. We really *could* have a crash program along the lines of Apollo to get us largely off oil. SciAm about 2 years ago, devoted most of an issue to a plan to have the US off fossil fuels for heating and electricity generation in twenty years! Off it *entirely* and the beauty of this plan is that it didn't require building any new nukes just a combination of wind, solar and geothermal along with underground transmission lines (we actually lose quite a bit of power using overhead transmissions lines). We could realistically be off of fossil fuels for private transportation within that time frame and, quite honestly, if folks were willing to slow their pace of travel a bit we could largely eliminate jet aircraft and use dirigibles for long-distance air travel. Yes, it would take longer but it would be ecologically more sustainable. With maglev trains (already existing) we could have transcontinental rail travel that would also be far more ecologically sustainable and all of this is technology that we have in hand *now*.

Our problem isn't one of basic science--there are some longer term problems that ARE basic science problems but how to get our fossil fuel use down quite a bit isn't one of them--rather it's a matter of political will. There is just no will to actually *do* the things that we need to do and, unfortunately, we as a culture are so entirely in thrall to this idea that if we just wait long enough the market will take care of it that we can't actually do anything. The market isn't going to take care of this one though.

Cheers
Aj

[Andrew, Jr.]

Dreedgreek,

President Obama should have been giving the address at The Naval Academy and at Arlington Cemetary at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier during Memorial Day. Instead he chose to go to Chicago to celebrate with his friends. I have lost respect for him for making this decision. I honor our vets, and am very inspired by what they have done for me and my country.

I could have understood if President Obama chose to go to Gulf to spend the holiday. In my mind that would be excusable, and understandable. I really do not care what he would have done with his time in the Gulf. It would have been a good idea for him to have given comfort to those 11 who died families for starters. Then President Obama could have spoken to the fisherman who have lost their jobs. And it doesn't look like BP is going to help them with jack.

[Miss Scarlett]

Now I've got 3 oil companies that will never see my money - BP, Exxon and Citgo...

[socialjustice_fsu]

I live in Pensacola, Florida. As I type this the first oil sheen is about 7 miles off-shore. The city is somber. I can assure you that MANY local folks have stepped up to the plate and are volunteering to secure booms and beginning to set up emergency treatment facilites for the injured marine life. I never thought I would see this. Maybe I have been one of the millions that have become complacent about how we are butchering our environment. Now I am about to see the results. I have read the posts about BP, the President, and so on. Yes, there should be accountibility but at this time I am asking that you simply hold our precious coast close to your hearts. It will never be the same here again.

[Toughy]

Dreedgreek,

President Obama should have been giving the address at The Naval Academy and at Arlington Cemetary at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier during Memorial Day. Instead he chose to go to Chicago to celebrate with his friends. I have lost respect for him for making this decision. I honor our vets, and am very inspired by what they have done for me and my country.

I could have understood if President Obama chose to go to Gulf to spend the holiday. In my mind that would be excusable, and understandable. I really do not care what he would have done with his time in the Gulf. It would have been a good idea for him to have given comfort to those 11 who died families for starters. Then President Obama could have spoken to the fisherman who have lost their jobs. And it doesn't look like BP is going to help them with jack.



Obama is not the first President to not be at the Tomb on Memorial Day. Bush jr sent Cheney a couple of time so he could go to his ranch. It's not that big of a deal to me and I am a veteran.

-----------

I keep thinking about Jimmy Carter and solar panels on the roof of the White House and Carter's call for 20% of our energy coming from non-fossil fuels (I think he actually specified solar) by the year 2000.............then Reagan was elected and the solar panels came down and Carter's energy policies were dumped.

I remember those gas station lines around the block and people getting shot and killed in those lines.

-----------edited t o add: yeah for Tesla Motors. They are going to make their electric Roadster in the now closed NUMMI plant in Fremont......batteries are being made in the bat area also...........

[Miss Scarlett]

Obama is not the first President to not be at the Tomb on Memorial Day. Bush jr sent Cheney a couple of time so he could go to his ranch. It's not that big of a deal to me and I am a veteran.

-----------

I keep thinking about Jimmy Carter and solar panels on the roof of the White House and Carter's call for 20% of our energy coming from non-fossil fuels (I think he actually specified solar) by the year 2000.............then Reagan was elected and the solar panels came down and Carter's energy policies were dumped.

I remember those gas station lines around the block and people getting shot and killed in those lines.


I think sometimes we expect way too much from our elected officials. I would be much more upset with the President if he sent someone else in his place to give the State of the Union address than for sending someone to one of the academies to deliver a commencement. I also have no problem with the Vice-President laying the wreath at Arlington, especially since his son was (or is?) active duty.

Sometimes the President just needs a break from it all for a day or two. I certainly don't want his job.

So many people laughed at President Carter but he was correct to put those solar panels on the White House. I have wondered for years why office buildings do not have rooftop panels to power their HVAC systems (at they very least). They have installed a few solar powered street lights here but not many. This hardly new technology. Just makes sense to me.

I remember those gas lines too. Isn't it strange that despite those lines and the "oil crisis" we did little to move away from fossil fuels??? Yeah, Detroit made some more fuel efficient vehicles...but they also produced those HUGE SUVs, pick-up trucks as big as a school bus and other assorted urban assault vehicles and America bought them. Why do I think this cycle will repeat yet again?

I can understand it taking some time to get this mess in the Gulf under control but this is ridiculous. I believe that rather than stopping the leak they are determined to make money from it.

I will not buy their gas. I will, however, not stop going into one of the stores to buy a drink or something. The store owners are not BP (BP actually owns very few stations in the US) and I don't want to punish the small business owner.

[MsDemeanor]

Dreedgreek,

President Obama should have been giving the address at The Naval Academy and at Arlington Cemetary at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier during Memorial Day. Instead he chose to go to Chicago to celebrate with his friends. I have lost respect for him for making this decision. I honor our vets, and am very inspired by what they have done for me and my country.

I could have understood if President Obama chose to go to Gulf to spend the holiday. In my mind that would be excusable, and understandable. I really do not care what he would have done with his time in the Gulf. It would have been a good idea for him to have given comfort to those 11 who died families for starters. Then President Obama could have spoken to the fisherman who have lost their jobs. And it doesn't look like BP is going to help them with jack.



THIS is how you choose to evaluate a presidency? Comments like this - stupid ass dribble put forth by the Repugs and Faux Newz and then repeated by all thier little followers until people think that it's true - show so clearly what is so very wrong with this country - that too many people get caught up in nonsense shit instead of paying attention to what matters. I understand judging him on policy and stuff that matters, but to go all high and mighty over where he spent a holiday? Give me a fucking break.

[MsDemeanor]

Also, remember that on Veterans Day, after official ceremonies at Arlington, Obama cleared his schedule and spent time at the cemetery walking around the graves and talking to families. Shrub spent a Memorial Day - along with a quarter of his entire presidency - at his Texas ranch. And the almighty Reagan missed a Memorial Day at Arlington.

As for spending the weekend in the Gulf area, people clearly don't understand the impact that a Presidential entourage has on an area. Hundreds of hotel rooms locked up, roads blocked for motorcades, areas cleared for security details, etc. People would have been bitching that they couldn't get to the cemetery or missed their picnic because the freeway was shut down for an hour or cleanup crews couldn't work because the Secret Service had to cordon off areas. The righties would have been spewing froth over how he disrupted the efforts in the area for a three-day photo shoot.

[dreadgeek]

Andrew:

I'm curious, did you lose respect for Bush the Younger because he didn't go in 2006? Did you lose respect for Bush the Elder because he didn't go in 1992? Did you lose respect for Reagan because he didn't go in 1983? I'm just curious if there is a different standard at play. In 2006, Bush the Younger didn't go because he was in Crawford, TX on vacation. In 1992, Bush the Elder didn't go because he was in Kennebunkport, ME. In 1983 Reagan didn't go because he was at a summit.

Despite what TV and/or talk radio might have you believe it is not uncommon for the POTUS to have either the Veep or another proxy lay the wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier in Arlington. I'm not saying don't use whatever metrics you wish to use, if for you what the POTUS does on Memorial Day is the deciding factor, that's the deciding factor. I trust, though, that you are applying a consistent standard without favor or bias and so pretty much have no respect for any President from the last half of the 20th century and into the first part of the 21st based solely on that criteria.

Cheers
Aj



Dreedgreek,

President Obama should have been giving the address at The Naval Academy and at Arlington Cemetary at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier during Memorial Day. Instead he chose to go to Chicago to celebrate with his friends. I have lost respect for him for making this decision. I honor our vets, and am very inspired by what they have done for me and my country.

I could have understood if President Obama chose to go to Gulf to spend the holiday. In my mind that would be excusable, and understandable. I really do not care what he would have done with his time in the Gulf. It would have been a good idea for him to have given comfort to those 11 who died families for starters. Then President Obama could have spoken to the fisherman who have lost their jobs. And it doesn't look like BP is going to help them with jack.

[dreadgeek]

THIS is how you choose to evaluate a presidency? Comments like this - stupid ass dribble put forth by the Repugs and Faux Newz and then repeated by all thier little followers until people think that it's true - show so clearly what is so very wrong with this country - that too many people get caught up in nonsense shit instead of paying attention to what matters. I understand judging him on policy and stuff that matters, but to go all high and mighty over where he spent a holiday? Give me a fucking break.

One of the things that gets me about where our politics are now is that they are almost COMPLETELY divorced from facts. It's not just that right-wing talk show hosts or FOX news say things that are factually untrue. It's that they know that for many people it does not *matter* if things are factually true or not. Most people, on hearing "President Obama isn't going to Arlington", wouldn't even *think* to Google "how many times have Presidents been out of Washington DC on Memorial day". This might seem trivial but it's not.

What this means is that our politics are no longer at all fact-based or fact-biased. If someone says that, for instance, Reagan was POTUS from 1968 until 1988 it no longer *matters* whether or not that is even possible! Let me repeat that--it no longer matters, to a non-trivial portion of the American body politic--whether or not some statement X is true or not, or even if the statement is *plausible*. When a culture reaches that point, they have a serious problem on their hands because politics stops--or more poignantly politics becomes nothing *but* scoring political points.

Were 'Death panels' in the HCR bill? No. Did it matter? No. All that mattered is that people *said* that they were in the bill. The facts were irrelevant and it was considered perfectly acceptable to vote against the bill based upon *false* information. Does it matter that other Presidents missed Memorial Day at Arlington? No. All that matters is that people say that Obama is the *first* POTUS to miss that holiday at Arlington.

So here we are with a slate of problems on our plate, any ONE of which is difficult but taken together appear overwhelming and we have both a political class and a body politic that, it appears, are no longer interested in making decisions based upon facts and, in fact, seem to be rapidly losing the ability to distinguish between a fact and an opinion or to acknowledge that there is a non-trivial difference between the two. The Gulf oil spill is going to be yet another example of this. In six months or a year, when clean-up operations are still proceeding someone--probably at FOX--is going to make a statement along the lines of "the shrimp catching industry wasn't big along the Gulf Coast, why enviro-whackos are making this big deal about shrimp when there were no shrimp there..." and people are going to react *as if* it were true. Very few people will actually take the 30 seconds it would take to Google 'shrimp industry Gulf coast' to see if, in fact, there was ever a thriving shrimping industry in Louisiana. They will vote for some politician who takes up what is said on FOX and parrot it even though it is demonstrably untrue. That person will go to Washington or their state legislature or governor's office or what-have-you and make decisions based on something but not based on facts. And then, when the next election cycle rolls around, that person will not be punished for making non-fact based decisions and pushing non-fact based policies.

How we get out of this problem I have no idea. The people who repeat these non-factual assertions aren't stupid. Some of them are quite intelligent. It's just that as a *culture* we have lost the ability or willingness to think critically and can no longer make a useful distinction between fact and opinion.

Cheers
Aj

[MsDemeanor]

My new favorite is "there were no terrorist attacks on US soil during the Bush (43) administration".

[dreadgeek]

My new favorite is "there were no terrorist attacks on US soil during the Bush (43) administration".

Yeah, I love that one too!

[Andrew, Jr.]

I'm Democrat. I never voted for any of the Bush's.

Sorry my remarks here are worthless pieces of shit, MsDemeanor and Dreadgeek. I am very offended when people have no respect for our vets and active duty soldiers. I have relatives who are both vets, and in Iraq. One of my nephews just joined the Army. He is headed for his first tour of duty, and left last week. I also have a problem when a sitting President cannot offer comfort to the families of those who died in the blast. And due to some bullshit of a bill from the 40's those families will not receive much if any money because of it. Obama signed up for the job, and should be held to it.

I will keep my opinions to myself.

[dreadgeek]

I'm Democrat. I never voted for any of the Bush's.

Sorry my remarks here are worthless pieces of shit, MsDemeanor and Dreadgeek. I am very offended when people have no respect for our vets and active duty soldiers. I have relatives who are both vets, and in Iraq. One of my nephews just joined the Army. He is headed for his first tour of duty, and left last week. I also have a problem when a sitting President cannot offer comfort to the families of those who died in the blast. And due to some bullshit of a bill from the 40's those families will not receive much if any money because of it. Obama signed up for the job, and should be held to it.

I will keep my opinions to myself.


Firstly, I didn't say your remarks were worthless pieces of shit. I'm curious, though, if you held every other president to the same standard? You said that you lost all respect for Obama because he didn't go to Arlington this year. I'm curious if you have no respect for Bush the Younger, Clinton, Bush the Elder, Reagan, Carter, Ford, and Nixon based upon their performance of that act. This isn't about who you voted for, Andrew. It's not about your party affiliation. YOU (not I or MsD) said that you lost all respect for Obama based upon his not going to Arlington on Memorial Day. Now, whatever I might think about using that as a touchstone for grading a President (and I have thoughts on that matter), what I was asking about was whether or not you applied this standard in a consistent fashion. If not, then why not? If so, then why *that* standard? All I was looking for from you, Andrew, was whether or not this "what did you do on Memorial Day, Mr. President" standard was applied fairly and evenly or was this a special standard for Mr. Obama. That's it.

Look, perhaps we have different standards for Presidents. For you, perhaps their performance of symbolic and ceremonial duties (which count for something) trumps policy. For me, policy trumps everything else. I don't even care, as much, about always keeping all their campaign promises but I DO care about what kinds of policies they enact, why they enact them and how they fight for those policies. The ceremonial duties may or may not put a lump in my throat but I'm not going to lose respect for some pol because of what s/he chose to do on some holiday.

One last thing:

As far as doing this thing--and people here do this a lot and as a veteran it *REALLY* pisses me off, by the way--is trotting out their relatives who are veterans to be air cover. Look, I am a vet, as is my son, as is my sister, as was my father before us. A member of my extended family has served in every single war this nation has fought since WWI. There are, within my immediate family, two Purple Hearts and a Bronze star. I have, on my mother's side, three former Tuskegee Airmen. My father was a member of the storied 761st Tank Battalion. My sister made it a career and retired as a Major in 2005. I would have made it a career but I was cashiered for being queer. My son is a Ranger. He is *not* on his fourth deployment to Iraq because he's on his *first* deployment to Afghanistan. So it's been Iraq-Iraq-Iraq-Afghanistan. That's been the last six years of his life and you know what, he's signing up for a second hitch! Now, what have I just proved? Have I made myself more correct? Do I have an argument that judging the POTUS on what he did on his long Memorial Day weekend might not be the best standard?

We're not props and we don't give folks an argument when they don't otherwise have one. I was a soldier. I'd do it again in a heartbeat but I didn't do it so I could be trotted out on an Internet message board as a prop to bolster a flailing argument. I am glad and appreciative that you honor our veterans--but you aren't the only one and, pardon me for being obtuse but I was just enlisted--what on Earth do your relatives have to do with THIS topic? The day someone here says something horrible about a veteran *because* they are a veteran, I will absolutely stand with you but I just don't get why you felt the need to wave your service-member relatives and/or friends around on this thread.

Cheers
Aj

[AtLast]

Ummm... if my facts are correct... I remember President Obama receiving the bodies of fallen soldiers at about 4 am early in his term. I believe (if I am wrong, do tell me), that this was the first time the bodies of the fallen were greeted by a US President upon arriving home since the start of both the Iraq & Afghanistan Wars.

During both Bush admins (maybe Clinton, as well), this did not occur.

Yes, facts.... seems we in the US have no use for them any longer. Personally, I am sick of what so called news reporting has become. It isn't!

I did a personal experiment last week because I realized my BP is not as good as I need it to be (even on medication, loosing weight, eating well, etc). The economic tide of the Great recession is taking its toll on me (and everyone). So, in an attempt to be more in touch with what shoots my BP up, I started taking it pre and post watching my usual news programs. I actually watch several different ones.

Yup, my BP soared post watching! And it didn't matter what show I watched... Rachael or Anderson, Keith, or Chris or Ed. I sometimes take a look at faux news programs so I can get a feel for all the fact reporting.. not much difference in how high my BP rose compared to the other programs!

I am cutting down on all news programming! No matter what I watch, there are discrepancies with facts. The only programs that seems to agree with my BP is the News Hour, Democracy Now, NPR and BBC coverage as well.

Guess I need to stay away from talking point types...

[Jet]

I could cry

Several photos are released on Yahoo today

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Animals-suffer-after-oil-spill/ss/events/sc/052010gulfoilanimals#photoViewer=/100603/480/urn_publicid_ap_org_befc0f8b50a44a05b9788f972a9e2e 99

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr257/lionoflionsman/Picture14-6.png

[MsDemeanor]

I'm Democrat. I never voted for any of the Bush's.

Sorry my remarks here are worthless pieces of shit, MsDemeanor and Dreadgeek. I am very offended when people have no respect for our vets and active duty soldiers. I have relatives who are both vets, and in Iraq. One of my nephews just joined the Army. He is headed for his first tour of duty, and left last week. I also have a problem when a sitting President cannot offer comfort to the families of those who died in the blast. And due to some bullshit of a bill from the 40's those families will not receive much if any money because of it. Obama signed up for the job, and should be held to it.

I will keep my opinions to myself.

Wow, that's quite a pity party response. The whole point of posting on a discussion board is to discuss. If you don't want people to respond to or question your opinions, then keeping them to yourself might be an appropriate course of action.

[MsDemeanor]

Ummm... if my facts are correct... I remember President Obama receiving the bodies of fallen soldiers at about 4 am early in his term. I believe (if I am wrong, do tell me), that this was the first time the bodies of the fallen were greeted by a US President upon arriving home since the start of both the Iraq & Afghanistan Wars.

Yep, that's what happened. There is an official 'ceremony' (not the right word, but it's too early for the dictionary side of my brain to work) for each casket - part on the plane and part once on the tarmac. Though the cameras were there for only one or two of these, Obama stayed all night.

Also, until Obama, no cameras had been allowed since 1991:

President George H.W. Bush's administration imposed the ban on media coverage of the arrival of fallen troops' remains at Dover Air Force Base during the Gulf War in February 1991. It came about after a controversy arose when Bush held a news conference at the same moment the first U.S. casualties were returning to Dover the day after the U.S. invasion of Panama in 1989, and three television networks carried the events live on split screen, with Bush appearing at one point to joke while on the opposite screen the solemn ceremony unfolded at the Delaware base.

Both Republican and Democratic administrations have upheld the Dover ban, but both have also made notable exceptions, which some observers view as politically expedient. For example, under President Bill Clinton in October 2000, the Pentagon distributed photographs of coffins arriving at Dover bearing the remains of military personnel killed in the bombing of the USS Cole.

linkyloo
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/16/AR2009021601480_2.html)

[Diavolo]

I am cutting down on all news programming! No matter what I watch, there are discrepancies with facts. The only programs that seems to agree with my BP is the News Hour, Democracy Now, NPR and BBC coverage as well.

Guess I need to stay away from talking point types...

I turned off my cable about four months ago. I search out my news online and listen to NPR when I'm driving. (I drive a lot for work) I'm happier and better informed.

[Linus]

pE-1G_476nA

Interesting graphic that suggests possible outlook of the flow if it continues for an extended period (until relief wells are built)

[chefhottie25]

I am a chef...and with the fishing industry on hold, it has been impossible to get any seafood from the gulf. I also saw on the news tonight that BP just spent 5 million dollars to make a commericial apologizing for the disaster. That money could have been spent on the rescue of wildlife, or the effort to stop the leak. I can't believe this happening.

[Glenn]

I am a chef...and with the fishing industry on hold, it has been impossible to get any seafood from the gulf. I also saw on the news tonight that BP just spent 5 million dollars to make a commericial apologizing for the disaster. That money could have been spent on the rescue of wildlife, or the effort to stop the leak. I can't believe this happening.

Goldman Sachs somehow knew the fish would be gone. They sold 250 million of BP stock before the spill, which was 46 per cent of their holdings. RawStory.com

[MsDemeanor]

Goldman Sachs somehow knew the fish would be gone. They sold 250 million of BP stock before the spill, which was 46 per cent of their holdings. RawStory.com
This looks more like a case of the internet focusing on one number, sans context, and turning it viral. on 3/31/10, 5 institutions and one fund linkyloo (http://investors.morningstar.com/ownership/shareholders-selling.html?t=BP&region=USA&culture=en-US) each sold over 1M shares of BP. This was the day that Obama announced opening coastal waters to offshore drilling linkyloo (http://blogs.forbes.com/energysource/2010/03/31/obama-set-to-open-coastal-waters-to-oil-drilling/?partner=yahootix) , and the day after BP let $500M in contracts as part of it's new plan to drill in Iraqi oil fields linkyloo. (http://www.fool.com/investing/international/2010/03/31/bp-ready-to-wade-into-iraqs-oil.aspx) Trading volumes were fairly normal that day, and the stock price was on an upswing.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc? Get all the facts, then decide.

[AtLast]

pE-1G_476nA

Interesting graphic that suggests possible outlook of the flow if it continues for an extended period (until relief wells are built)


This is not just going to effect the US. This oil and the toxic chemicals used by BP will be inour food chain .... globally. The oil will be damaging eco sytems worldwide.

oil drilling and exploration as well as its use is a global issue. We have to start realizing this and work together globally in dealing with these matters.

Seriousness about cutting the need for oil in our lives starts on a personal level. Implementing some really simple changes by many makes a difference. However, what about the monied elite? The belief that being able to buy whatever you want no matter what it does in terms of environmental issues and energy-use just because you have the bucks is a big part of the equation.

I have been going nuts trying to figure out what to do with my beloved T-Bird. Yes, I admit, I love big, fast, Detroit engines. I know they must go, but, it hurts. But, this is not a good thing. I have less than 8000 miles on this car (bought it in 2003 and these have stopped being built). I don't drive it much. I have thought about selling it. Then, I realize that most likely someone who buys it will have it on the road more. I had wanted to give it to my niece eventually, but the same applies. I did some research with collectors (only ones that do not drive their cars and have public show rooms for car enthusiasts. And found out that I might be able to do an upon my death contract, in which a collector will buy it, and put it in their collection and give the money for the car to this niece. Just have to get the details worked out. Worth a try.


I am a chef...and with the fishing industry on hold, it has been impossible to get any seafood from the gulf. I also saw on the news tonight that BP just spent 5 million dollars to make a commericial apologizing for the disaster. That money could have been spent on the rescue of wildlife, or the effort to stop the leak. I can't believe this happening.

I know, this pissed me off! Rescue efforts or how about cutting some checks to the people that are loosing their livlihood- as in the fishing and resturant businesses? Probably best for efforts to save the critters. There are several organizations trying to clean as many birds as possible in the Gulf.

[Rockinonahigh]

I drive a big o caddi and im not givein it up.One reason is I always wanted one..now I got it.Two its easy on my back to ride in..besides I dont go all that far in it and its in perfect shape.Im glad I dont still have the old gas guzler of an suv I had,it knew where all the gas pumps in town were.In reality I havent found smaller more effecent cars comfy at all..anyway its paid for.

[AtLast]

I drive a big o caddi and im not givein it up.One reason is I always wanted one..now I got it.Two its easy on my back to ride in..besides I dont go all that far in it and its in perfect shape.Im glad I dont still have the old gas guzler of an suv I had,it knew where all the gas pumps in town were.In reality I havent found smaller more effecent cars comfy at all..anyway its paid for.

It's OK, Rockin. I hear ya about comfort. Cars that are kept tuned make a big difference. Have had multiple back surgeries and a couple of kinds of arthritis, plus, I'm old. And as you say, how much we drive a vehicle matters. Also, commuting. Public transporatation, car pools, van-pools all help with folks that have to go a long distance for work. But, we have dropped tghe b all in the US about transportation infrastructure all over the place. I use public transportation here because it is actually easier, saves time and is less expensive. In some places, that just isn't so which needs to change.
Also I get some more walking in taking BART trains into SF and stolling to my destinations. I'm retired, however and this system is nearby. Then, again,
more fuel efficient transportation systems need to be utilized, too. And I have to say, I want these systems using US manufactured vehicle materials. the losses of manufacturing in the US makes me sick.

The car thing, can get into class differences, too. Some of these new hybrids cost mega bucks. Far more than the average person can afford. Look at average income levels and add all the other costs we have to put out and a lot of people are just not going to plunk down (or finance) $25000 and up for a car.

And I know that larger kinds of vehicles are needed let's say in the farming industry, etc. But, the technology to have even large commercial vehicles more fuel efficient has been around for awhile, but not utilized. Hummm... think oil companies have had a hand in this? There are hybrid SUVs now. And some people are just not OK with small cars due to safety concerns.

[Rockinonahigh]

AtlastHome..if it were possable for me to take public transportation most of the time I would,all we have hear is the city bus line wich is forever late,stinky,and way over crouded, the bus stop its usely just a sign to mark the bus stop and rarely is there a place to sit unless its on the curb.
I do becareful to keep the cadi well tuned up and tires in good order,haveing a son who is a master mechanic is a big plus.
I really thought of geting a green car but the price is way outta sight as well as the notes that will choke a horse..not to mention the inshurance cost.So I feel if I drive responsably I can at least keep my cabon foot print down as much as possabl.Recently I got some canvas bags to bring my shoping home in insted of useing plastic baggs,I have tons of tuppreware and or things like itso I will use them till they give out and hope something better and more eco friendly will come out one of these days.

[Toughy]

So BP made a cut on the pipe coming out of the riser so they could cap it in order to keep at least some of the oil out of the water. They admit when they make the cut, the flow of oil out of that pipe will increase by 20% and if the cap fails then there will be 20% more oil flowing into the Gulf. The cap works and is keeping about 20% of the oil coming out of the pipe out of the Gulf.

BP proudly announces they are keeping oil out of the Gulf. ..................mmmmmmmmmmm................wait. ........you increase by 20%, then take 20% out..........that means you did nothing to decrease the flow of oil into the Gulf. However you damn sure can make it look and sound like you did something good.....

BP is doing hella good work out there in the Gulf.

[MsDemeanor]

Sorry, but the math thing is making me crazy. Say there's 100 gallons coming out. Making the cut increases that to 120 gallons. 20% of 120 is 24, so they're capturing 24 gallons, leaving 96 to spew. So, there's four less gallons coming out.

I know I know I know, 96 vs. 100 doesn't mean diddly squat, but the math thing made me twitch :-)

Besides, the bigger picture is that BP is now able to take that 20 new percent and pump it in to a ship, which they can then process and sell. They're finally able to squeeze a little $$$ out of this. That IS what's most important, after all.

[Toughy]

laughin..............msdemeanor...........see my math says increase flow by 20%, take out 20%.........that =zero.....same amount flowing as before......

I entirely see how you worked the problem and got your answer.......laughin..........which is the right one I am sure....

which is why I never got past algebra and geometry..........calculus and trig made my head explode........laughin....

(and I never really understood geometry until it snapped in place one day over a pool table....and then some basic physics also made some kind of sense)

give me natural sciences, biology, microbiology, parasitology, hematology, immunology, etc any day.............

I do hate math..........math is hard

[Glenn]

Tesla disliked algebra and calculus too, that's why the physics community did'nt pay much attention to him I reckon.

[Diavolo]

I'm seeing some stuff on the conservative sites about some guy named Nick Pozzi and some supposed solution that was used before but BP won't consider it now, involving "vacuuming" the oil up into tankers.

I've spent some time trying to get to the bottom of it, but haven't been successful. I know how an idea catches fire and every jackass in the world forwards it around.

Has anybody here actually seen or done the research to see what they're talking about? Was it really used in the Middle East in 1993? Did it work? Why would it or wouldn't it work now?

I know how those websites are, and like a friend said the other day, even a stopped watch is right twice a day.

[Jet]

Obama says he's finding out 'whose ass to kick' over Gulf disaster

Harsh words....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_pl2451

[morningstar55]

i am absolutly amazed by this video....
British Petroleum ... IS NOT... smarter then a 5th grader...
lol .... Jeff Foxworthy will love this one.. lol lol
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-456489?hpt=Sbin

[Toughy]

Rachel Maddow segment from last night:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show#37563700

it's about 20 minutes or so long but very much worth it.....

[Kat]

If you care about what's happening in the Gulf of Mexico, read this...

"The Spill, The Scandal, and The President: The inside story of how Obama failed to crack down on the corruption of the Bush years – and let the world's most dangerous oil company get away with murder" (Rolling Stone -- June 8, 2010)

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/111965?RS_show_page=0

[Bob]

Obama says he's finding out 'whose ass to kick' over Gulf disaster


Frankly, they don't need their asses kicked, they need to be taken out back and shot.

[chefhottie25]

Obama says he's finding out 'whose ass to kick' over Gulf disaster

Harsh words....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_pl2451

I hope that Obama follows his tough talk with actions.

[violaine]

i follow the oil spill from audubon, nwra [national wildlife rehabilitators association], http://www.nwrawildlife.org/home.asp ,
noaa, as well as other news -

http://www.salon.com/news/louisiana_oil_spill/index.html?story=/news/excerpt/2010/06/09/us_gulf_oil_spill_sketchy_plans

people who are licensed and certified post emergency spilled oil cleanup, for wildlife rehabilitators, and then pass required examinations/training may be contacted pretty soon. [i've been listed since the incident, and ready to go should i be called upon in the next few weeks. the audubon and nwra are working the same way- which is great- the application process, certification, and so on, the concerted effort for these organisations.]


last email from audubon:

Another Tough Week But Some Good News, Too

As we all know, even guarded optimism regarding BPs efforts last week to stop the Gulf oil leak turned out to be misplaced. But once again there is at least a glimmer of hope on the horizon, with today’s news that efforts to place a containment cap over the well appear to have been more successful. That said, this is at best a short term and partial measure, as it would enable some of the spewing oil to be siphoned to a tanker on the surface.

Meanwhile, NOAA has expanded the Gulf’s “no-fishing” zone, oil has reached Alabama’s Dauphin Island and begun washing up on north Florida beaches, and the US Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) has confirmed oiled birds from Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida. Details are sketchy but you can see the lastest US Fish and Wildlife report on captured and dead wildlife here (PDF). Although not every captured or dead bird is a result of the spill, this presents an important picture of impacts on wildlife.

This crisis is clearly going to be with us for many months to come — and beyond — with a long-term solution not anticipated before relief drills can be completed in August. Audubon’s Melanie Driscoll highlighted some of the recovery’s challenges for Audubon magazine’s blog. However, as anyone who is following the latest developments and the recent photos from the spill can attest, you don’t need to be on location to feel heartbreak and even despair as you see its toll on wildlife.

As the crisis deepens, so does the need for a multi-pronged and coordinated response. Fortunately, Audubon’s Oil Spill Volunteer Response Center (learn more here), launched in Moss Point, Mississippi this week, will enable us — and many of our committed volunteers — to play an increasingly important role in that response.

The center will serve as the hub for our recovery effort throughout the Gulf. Under the direction of Sean Saville, National Field Director for Audubon, volunteers are already staffing the center and scheduling other volunteers in a range of essential tasks, including assisting in the transport of injured and oiled birds, creating transport cages, and answering the center’s Bird Hotline.

Here are a few excerpts from one volunteer's account of her time helping to ready oiled birds for transport:

"While there I put together pet taxi's. Tie wraps work so much faster and easier than the screws :) Since there aren't any large animals going into the pet taxi's, a tie wrap on each corner is enough to hold them together. I placed the oil absorbant pads in the bottom...I was put in charge of making sure all the incoming birds were labeled with the coordinates where it was picked up. I wrote the coordinates on paper and gave it a number which I wrote on a piece of duck tape and stuck on the pet taxi. That way I remembered what boat the birds came off of in case there was a question...Thanks for giving me chance to experience this. I really enjoyed today and look forward to tomorrow."

We will be ramping up this week, ensuring that dedicated and trained volunteers, like Christine above, are on hand to meet the evolving needs of the recovery effort. Here is some of what they will be doing:

•Volunteer Response Center Staff — scheduling volunteers, identifying and coordinating engagement with new projects, logistical support, arranging training, office management, etc.
•Coastal Bird Survey — collecting data and photos on bird resources and impacts across the coast according to specific scientific protocols.
•Wildlife Transport Facilitator — assisting USFWS and Tri-State Bird Rescue with round-the-clock shifts in key locations for injured/oiled wildlife recovery and transport operations throughout the coastal region.
•Bird Capture and Rescue Materials — volunteers are needed to make nets, cages and other materials to assist trained professionals in oiled bird rescue efforts.
•Citizen Science Monitoring — submitting electronic information on birds sightings at Important Bird Areas, refuges or sanctuaries to assess population impacts, numbers of target species or species of concern.
•Bird Hotline Operators — providing on-site bird expertise for our Volunteer Response Center as well as possibly in field offices of BP, Tri-State Bird Rescue and others involved in response efforts to address issues related to bird sightings, handling, species identification, etc.

Audubon is very grateful for our dedicated volunteers — and we simply can’t say that enough! It is important to know that even if you are not on the frontlines, it is your commitment that is making it possible for us to make a real difference — even in the face of this unprecedented challenge — for birds, wildlife and communities throughout the Gulf region.

more on volunteering-

http://www.alabamarivers.org/press-room/headlines/gulf-oil-slick-volunteer-update-5-14-10

[AtLast]

If you care about what's happening in the Gulf of Mexico, read this...

"The Spill, The Scandal, and The President: The inside story of how Obama failed to crack down on the corruption of the Bush years – and let the world's most dangerous oil company get away with murder" (Rolling Stone -- June 8, 2010)

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/111965?RS_show_page=0

First, I have to say that I have criticisms of Obama. However, one of the things I feel strongly about is that many of his inside people do not advise him well and have their own political agenda's going on. he can't do everything! He has to rely on the damn cabinet members to follow his agenda and it is this that is at the bottom of the this. Also, I cannot remember an incoming president (and I am 59 and have voted since I was 18) with the plate of very serious problems this one has.

My hope is that along with BP people, government people are charged with criminal intent eventually. Right now, however, I want all of the best minds in the field (and world- it is actually a global problem)to be working together on this disaster. Then, I wanty to see money put into the reasearch and development needed to deal with these things and sources of getting the US away from the need for oil at the level we use it.

This week, the 11 workers killed have been getting some press (AC-360 on CNN) and the survivors that went through this. FINALLY!! There are a lot of people in this I would love to kick in ass, but, pointing fingers while that oil is still gushing in the Gulf is just not going to help. Yes, collect evidence so that the survivors of the dead as well as the surviving workers get help. And those that have lost everything on the Gulf in terms of their livlihood. Gather evidence for the cases to come because this is going to be a very long haul.

There are also volunteer organizations that we can join to clean birds, ect. Or donate to as many people that care have physical challenges that prevent them from actually going there and washing the birds.

[AtLast]

Thank you so much for [osting this information). I admire your didication to wildlife. I am trying to get certified to help clean birds, etc. and this is just what I needed to find out how. Ya' gotta know what the hell you are doing to be able to assist with these magnificient creatures. I certainly could be a grunt, too. Hoping I can figure a way. Thank you and all of the people trained in these services and giving time to these efforts.

This is exactly why I am tired of some of the criticism of Obama about his consulting with experts. You don't send people in that do not know what the hell are doing! Organizing these efforts (and getting the people with these skills) from all over the country (the world) is not an easy task. Many of us can get at least entry-level disaster training in our communities. This can even be helpful when things like this happen.

i follow the oil spill from audubon, nwra [national wildlife rehabilitators association], http://www.nwrawildlife.org/home.asp ,
noaa, as well as other news -

http://www.salon.com/news/louisiana_oil_spill/index.html?story=/news/excerpt/2010/06/09/us_gulf_oil_spill_sketchy_plans

people who are licensed and certified post emergency spilled oil cleanup, for wildlife rehabilitators, and then pass required examinations/training may be contacted pretty soon. [i've been listed since the incident, and ready to go should i be called upon in the next few weeks. the audubon and nwra are working the same way- which is great- the application process, certification, and so on, the concerted effort for these organisations.]


last email from audubon:

Another Tough Week But Some Good News, Too

As we all know, even guarded optimism regarding BPs efforts last week to stop the Gulf oil leak turned out to be misplaced. But once again there is at least a glimmer of hope on the horizon, with today’s news that efforts to place a containment cap over the well appear to have been more successful. That said, this is at best a short term and partial measure, as it would enable some of the spewing oil to be siphoned to a tanker on the surface.

Meanwhile, NOAA has expanded the Gulf’s “no-fishing” zone, oil has reached Alabama’s Dauphin Island and begun washing up on north Florida beaches, and the US Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) has confirmed oiled birds from Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida. Details are sketchy but you can see the lastest US Fish and Wildlife report on captured and dead wildlife here (PDF). Although not every captured or dead bird is a result of the spill, this presents an important picture of impacts on wildlife.

This crisis is clearly going to be with us for many months to come — and beyond — with a long-term solution not anticipated before relief drills can be completed in August. Audubon’s Melanie Driscoll highlighted some of the recovery’s challenges for Audubon magazine’s blog. However, as anyone who is following the latest developments and the recent photos from the spill can attest, you don’t need to be on location to feel heartbreak and even despair as you see its toll on wildlife.

As the crisis deepens, so does the need for a multi-pronged and coordinated response. Fortunately, Audubon’s Oil Spill Volunteer Response Center (learn more here), launched in Moss Point, Mississippi this week, will enable us — and many of our committed volunteers — to play an increasingly important role in that response.

The center will serve as the hub for our recovery effort throughout the Gulf. Under the direction of Sean Saville, National Field Director for Audubon, volunteers are already staffing the center and scheduling other volunteers in a range of essential tasks, including assisting in the transport of injured and oiled birds, creating transport cages, and answering the center’s Bird Hotline.

Here are a few excerpts from one volunteer's account of her time helping to ready oiled birds for transport:

"While there I put together pet taxi's. Tie wraps work so much faster and easier than the screws :) Since there aren't any large animals going into the pet taxi's, a tie wrap on each corner is enough to hold them together. I placed the oil absorbant pads in the bottom...I was put in charge of making sure all the incoming birds were labeled with the coordinates where it was picked up. I wrote the coordinates on paper and gave it a number which I wrote on a piece of duck tape and stuck on the pet taxi. That way I remembered what boat the birds came off of in case there was a question...Thanks for giving me chance to experience this. I really enjoyed today and look forward to tomorrow."

We will be ramping up this week, ensuring that dedicated and trained volunteers, like Christine above, are on hand to meet the evolving needs of the recovery effort. Here is some of what they will be doing:

•Volunteer Response Center Staff — scheduling volunteers, identifying and coordinating engagement with new projects, logistical support, arranging training, office management, etc.
•Coastal Bird Survey — collecting data and photos on bird resources and impacts across the coast according to specific scientific protocols.
•Wildlife Transport Facilitator — assisting USFWS and Tri-State Bird Rescue with round-the-clock shifts in key locations for injured/oiled wildlife recovery and transport operations throughout the coastal region.
•Bird Capture and Rescue Materials — volunteers are needed to make nets, cages and other materials to assist trained professionals in oiled bird rescue efforts.
•Citizen Science Monitoring — submitting electronic information on birds sightings at Important Bird Areas, refuges or sanctuaries to assess population impacts, numbers of target species or species of concern.
•Bird Hotline Operators — providing on-site bird expertise for our Volunteer Response Center as well as possibly in field offices of BP, Tri-State Bird Rescue and others involved in response efforts to address issues related to bird sightings, handling, species identification, etc.

Audubon is very grateful for our dedicated volunteers — and we simply can’t say that enough! It is important to know that even if you are not on the frontlines, it is your commitment that is making it possible for us to make a real difference — even in the face of this unprecedented challenge — for birds, wildlife and communities throughout the Gulf region.

more on volunteering-

http://www.alabamarivers.org/press-room/headlines/gulf-oil-slick-volunteer-update-5-14-10

[violaine]

you are welcome. here is what i've learned from emails, talking with other wildlife bird rehabbers, and attending webcast overviews: unless someone has bird handling experience/is already licensed, working on a state or federal permit [and the latter are becoming more difficult to come by- you could check out the NWRA link, which should list information about licensing], the professionals/paraprofessionals will go in first. in fact, the very first question in order to actually receive oil spill work certification for handling birds [exam covers wildlife rehabbing questions/safety/osha] - is whether or not you are licensed.

this spill is so massive, i cannot conceive of knowledgeable volunteers being turned away to help wildlife in peril, if a shortage of help arises. experience in other areas besides WR could be taken into consideration. also, a few of the working conditions listed, like the types of oil, smells- oil itself/birds, protective gear, stress, heat, and so on, is something to seriously think about, while the desire to help may be strong, for individuals who have asthma, and/or other health issues, not a good scenario.

[MsDemeanor]

This is exactly why I am tired of some of the criticism of Obama about his consulting with experts.
Wow, I totally missed that. He's being criticized for consulting with experts? I really do live in the land of the truly stupid, don't I?

[AtLast]

So BP made a cut on the pipe coming out of the riser so they could cap it in order to keep at least some of the oil out of the water. They admit when they make the cut, the flow of oil out of that pipe will increase by 20% and if the cap fails then there will be 20% more oil flowing into the Gulf. The cap works and is keeping about 20% of the oil coming out of the pipe out of the Gulf.

BP proudly announces they are keeping oil out of the Gulf. ..................mmmmmmmmmmm................wait. ........you increase by 20%, then take 20% out..........that means you did nothing to decrease the flow of oil into the Gulf. However you damn sure can make it look and sound like you did something good.....

BP is doing hella good work out there in the Gulf.

They get the prize for double-talk.... Oh, or is it zero-sum? They have been having a difficult time all along with the math. And I am so freaking happy they are able to collect some of the oil so that they can keep their shareholders happy! Yeah, hella good work!The only organization I listen to about this is NOAA.

[Diva]

I'm watching Anderson Cooper 360 right now and he is blasting BP for their total lack of disclosure....

They make the fishermen sign a contract that doesn't allow them tell us what they're finding.

15,000 barrels a day.......


This whole thing just frustrates the hell out of me and I'm safely tucked away in central Texas for pity's sake! I can't even imagine what the poor people in Louisiana ~ especially those on the coast ~ must be experiencing!!!!!!


SHAME ON YOU, BP!!!!!!!!!! SHAME ON YOU!

[AtLast]

Thinking about the whole chain reaction financially about Gulf coast people. You are a fishing company or charter business and there are the losses in income. Then, no checks from BP (or a fraction of what you are losing). As most of us do when maoney is tight, we stop services, don't buy anything that is non-essential. So, if you pay a gardener, you stop that service. He or she loses many of their customers. The local market you shop in begins to feel business slowing. You stop your cable or even internet. No more new clothes or going out to dinner or taking in a movie. Forget those home improvements you wanted to do. The folks that work in all related industries are affected in this chain. The company that cans your fish lays off workers. Boats are docked, employees laid off. Recreational and vacation businesses are seeing huge losses. On and on. And this in the midst of the biggest recession for decades and after hurricanes that the recovery for haver not been fully reached! So, when it hits more state bays and beach areas.....

Now.... look at the goods and services that depend on the goods and services of the gulf fare in this that are not even in the Gulf!

[AtLast]

Wow, I totally missed that. He's being criticized for consulting with experts? I really do live in the land of the truly stupid, don't I?

And the latest attack from Faux News Whack-Winger Wagon comes after he made the kick in the ass comment... its un-presidential, and street talk (really love that one, some racism in that one?). Prior to this, they were all over him about not emoting about it. Hummm... I guess Bush's massacre of the English language as in misunderestimated and I am the decider are presidential?

Again, I have my own criticisms of him about some things, but, I] forfucksakes!

[MsDemeanor]

And the latest attack from Faux News Whack-Winger Wagon comes after he made the kick in the ass comment... its un-presidential, and street talk (really love that one, some racism in that one?). Prior to this, they were all over him about not emoting about it. Hummm... I guess Bush's massacre of the English language as in misunderestimated and I am the decider are presidential?

Again, I have my own criticisms of him about some things, but, I] forfucksakes!
Oh, it's happening at Faux Newz. That's to be expected - they're just manipulative idiots. I thought that you were referring to, you know, actual news stuff (though I have to use the term loosely these days) from actual news places or from people who actually think and stuff. Even the racism is to be expected.

[NJFemmie]

I used to work in a maritime related field - Exxon, BP and most of the other oil companies were in my membership. From the sidelines, I couldn't begin to tell you about the frustration in watching them get away with the things they did ... corruption in this field doesn't begin to describe it.

Exxon was supposed to pay the locals for their losses, and managed to skirt around it. They didn't pay close to what they were supposed to ... after twenty years of appeals, they ended up paying a little more than the cost of 'cleanup'. It's outrageous. And Alaska still suffers from the spill - twenty years later - and that spill wasn't as big as this one.

Ugh.

[MsDemeanor]

Doonesbury is a "must read" today.....linkyloo (http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html)

[violaine]

http://www.justnews.com/news/23849897/detail.html

[betenoire]

I thought this was pretty funny. And sometimes you need that.

2AAa0gd7ClM

[Sabine Gallais]

Well, the BP disaster has showed us one very important thing. Our latest president is bought and paid for just like the rest before him. He's an insider. They all are (were) Thing is, this time they went a little too far and oversold this guy. Now we can't put the genie back in the bottle. Suddenly both sides have come to the conclusion that they've been jerked around wildly and for far too long. The old Left/Right paradigm is dead on arrival. If you weren’t able to see how the revolving door in politics between government and corporations is methodically killing everything in its path, while the MSM pretends not to be complicit while they themselves methodically distract people from this fact in return for money (payoffs), then you’ll get the message when you figure out that this oil volcano is too huge for containment. The carnage to this country will be legendary. Oh, and BP knew this was going to happen.

This message brought to you by an Independent.

[Soon]

http://open.salon.com/files/kookydoh__6_10_10_b4afterbp_copy1276215524.jpg

[waxnrope]

http://open.salon.com/files/kookydoh__6_10_10_b4afterbp_copy1276215524.jpg

certainly captured the polarization of this country ...
thanks for that HSIN!

[MsDemeanor]

It totally captures the hypocrisy of the right...

[Andrew, Jr.]

The Coast Guard is requiring BP to midnight tonight to come up with a plan. Good luck with that one.

President Obama is meeting with the higer ups of BP and then having an 8pm Live TV news conference about the oil slick on Wed.

I think we all are going to be eating farm raised seafood in our future.

Andrew

[AtLast]

And Standard Oil had a spill in Utah this weekend!

Official: Oil spill hasn't reached Great Salt Lake

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/13/AR2010061302595.html


First estimates given were in the 400-500 gallon range.... but, now it looks like 21000! Sound familiar?

[Toughy]

500 barrels (42 gallons per barrel)............that shit happens all the time.......all the time.......it just never makes the news.....

It's only making the news because it makes folks watch CNN, Fake News, etc.........I promise if BP and the Gulf were not in the news no one.........no one........would even know this happened.....

[Sabine Gallais]

Why have we turned down offers from the Dutch to come over and suck up the oil so that it wouldn’t have had to turn into an ecological holocaust? Three days after BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling platform exploded in the Gulf of Mexico, the Netherlands offered to help. Ships could have set about clearing the oil using Dutch sweeping arms, but the US government didn’t take up the offer. Why?

Why are we ignoring the fact that dispersant merely acted to submerge the oil creating giant underwater plumes stretching for miles and making clean up impossible? And why is the media ignoring that BP was allowed to run the show (literally a show) and manipulate the public as to how much oil was actually coming out of that pipe? (And, STILL does as a matter of fact.) First it was 5,000 and now it’s 50,000 barrels per day. Who knows? Let's have a press conference! :seeingstars:

[Corkey]

Why have we turned down offers from the Dutch to come over and suck up the oil so that it wouldn’t have had to turn into an ecological holocaust? Three days after BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling platform exploded in the Gulf of Mexico, the Netherlands offered to help. Ships could have set about clearing the oil using Dutch sweeping arms, but the US government didn’t take up the offer. Why?

Why are we ignoring the fact that dispersant merely acted to submerge the oil creating giant underwater plumes stretching for miles and making clean up impossible? And why is the media ignoring that BP was allowed to run the show (literally a show) and manipulate the public as to how much oil was actually coming out of that pipe? (And, STILL does as a matter of fact.) First it was 5,000 and now it’s 50,000 barrels per day. Who knows? Let's have a press conference! :seeingstars:

It could be that the Dutch were turned down due to ownership rights, cause ya' know BP is only sucking up the oil so it can be sold by them to us. It could be that the US government isn't in the business of oil reclamation, and as such has limited resources as a military operation to do anything to help. It could be many things, thing is you are asking the wrong people WHY any of this is in our ability to answer. Try your representative who probably takes big oil pac dollars, or your Senator, who's pockets are lined with big oils dollars. We the people have no friggen clue WHY.

[Glenn]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but:
Mar. 17,2010
BP CEO Hayward sells 223,288 shares.
April 12,2010
Halliburton pays 232 million after spill to company "Boots&Coots"
This month
SEC investigating shorts placed on TransOcean stocks days before explosion.
Today
Folks are getting arrested for taking pictures, and reporters are prevented from doing their jobs...OUTRAGED!

[theoddz]

I'm wondering when it's going to be announced that gas prices are going to go up, due to the spill in the Gulf. :|

That would, quite simply, be the garnish for this whole entire shit sandwich.

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[Toughy]

BP refused the Dutch offer of help. The US government did not refuse help. BP is in charge not the government.

Some parts of the mainstream media are ignoring the plumes. Rachel Maddow (for one) has not been ignoring the plumes or the horrific response to maintaining and replacing the various types of booms BP keeps proudly telling you how much boom they have laid out. Putting boom in the water and then walking away is not a response.

==========
Gas has dropped about 11 cents a gallon since oil began spewing out of the well head.

Gas prices normally go up in the summer and prior to this disaster was going up. Now prices have dropped.

==========
popcorn....

msdemeanor address the stock issue in a previous post in this thread There is nothing going on about that.

---------------
this post was brought to you by an independent also...........since CA passed the stupidest open primary law anywhere it matters not what political party you belong to.......

[AtLast]

BP refused the Dutch offer of help. The US government did not refuse help. BP is in charge not the government.

Some parts of the mainstream media are ignoring the plumes. Rachel Maddow (for one) has not been ignoring the plumes or the horrific response to maintaining and replacing the various types of booms BP keeps proudly telling you how much boom they have laid out. Putting boom in the water and then walking away is not a response.

==========
Gas has dropped about 11 cents a gallon since oil began spewing out of the well head.

Gas prices normally go up in the summer and prior to this disaster was going up. Now prices have dropped.

==========
popcorn....

msdemeanor address the stock issue in a previous post in this thread There is nothing going on about that.

---------------
this post was brought to you by an independent also...........since CA passed the stupidest open primary law anywhere it matters not what political party you belong to.......

And I wonder what Obama will be saying about who is in charge tomorrow night? The only person that appears to me like he has a realistic take on things is Thad Allen. Realistic does include the gravity and idiocy in the whole situation.

Maddow's coverage has been super with getting the plume message out. And those puppies really bother me.

The gas prices are interesting, what's up with this? I don't fill up very much, have no idea what gas prices have been doing.

Yanno, I'm just not concerned about BP's stock prices in terms of British retirees or shareholoders. However, my guess is that from the start, BP's financial analysts have been working on the bankruptcy rationale they will be filing. They are going to get out of the cost of clean-up, re-organize and come back and drill in the Gulf. I just don't believe they will and the brunt of the costs will come right from our pockets. This escrow fund being talked about in the Congress is bogus political posturing.

Hummmm... our new CA open primary legislation .... I voted no, but to be honest, I am not entirely against open primaries. I am registered as decline to state, anyway.

[Diavolo]

---------------
this post was brought to you by an independent also...........since CA passed the stupidest open primary law anywhere it matters not what political party you belong to.......

Aren't you looking forward to our own Alvin Greene?:jester:

[AtLast]

Aren't you looking forward to our own Alvin Greene?:jester:

Maybe I'm not so kewl with open primaries...

Also, the reports of sickness due to toxins are now being reported. However, BP is trying their best to keep this under wraps.

Gulf Oil Spill Sickness: Cleanup Workers Experience Health Problems, Complain Of Flulike Symptoms

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/03/gulf-oil-spill-sickness-c_n_598816.html

[Toughy]

I am so against open primaries. Esp the CA law. The CA law says that, regardless of party affiliation, the 2 candidates who receive the most votes will face off in the general election . That means in a good part of CA you will have 2 Republican facing each other in the general election. I don't think that is choice at all.

---------------
I don't think the escrow thing is posturing. I think it may indeed happen.

Tonight should be interesting.

[Sabine Gallais]

BP refused the Dutch offer of help. The US government did not refuse help. BP is in charge not the government.

That little detail is of little comfort.

BP and its employees have given more than $3.5 million to federal candidates over the past 20 years. Make no mistake: BP ranks among the most powerful corporate forces in U.S. politics.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Rep. Ed Towns of NY went to see for himself the Gulf. He stated to some reporter that it is BP's problem, and they have to be responsible for paying the bill for the cleanup, not taxpayers. President Obama vows to hold BP responsible for this nightmare. We all will see how this plays out.

Then the reporter stated that in the Florida panhandle oil bloobs are now coming ashore. :candle:

President Obama will be on in 3 hours to address this. I hope he turns it around, and help those who lost everything.

[AtLast]

I am so against open primaries. Esp the CA law. The CA law says that, regardless of party affiliation, the 2 candidates who receive the most votes will face off in the general election . That means in a good part of CA you will have 2 Republican facing each other in the general election. I don't think that is choice at all.

---------------
I don't think the escrow thing is posturing. I think it may indeed happen.

Tonight should be interesting.

And exactly why I voted No... how the law was written. I think open primaries set-up differently, however can be good. Not this one, however. Also, my vote was based upon the right-wing fever of today and its influences.

[Soon]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_t6rV3U9ZEHM/TBfJl3xJaKI/AAAAAAAA0aI/OrU3JrKyA9U/s1600/AlabamaWaves.jpg

Tragic image of Alabama's waves.

What did you think of Obama's speech?

I couldn't believe all the references to God and Prayer. ugh.

[Sam]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_t6rV3U9ZEHM/TBfJl3xJaKI/AAAAAAAA0aI/OrU3JrKyA9U/s1600/AlabamaWaves.jpg

Tragic image of Alabama's waves.

What did you think of Obama's speech?

I couldn't believe all the references to God and Prayer. ugh.

Do you really want to get me started on the speech?

i'll prolly get myself booted and timed out :|

That photo is tragedy, it sickens me to death

[MsDemeanor]

What did you think of Obama's speech?

I couldn't believe all the references to God and Prayer. ugh.
I was less than impressed with the overall content, and disgusted by the god and prayer stuff.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I am deeply disappointed in the Fed. Gov't and in President Obama. Shame on them all. They should be down there and cleaning up the oil on the animals, saving the wetlands, and forcing BP to pay the folks who have lost everything. I hope BP goes bankrupt after all is said and done. I am sick by this. Just sick.

[Rockinonahigh]

All this references to God an prayer is his way of spouting words God didnt do this ,BP and greed did this.The only way its ever going to be cleaned up is for ppl to just do it and hope they get paid at some point for the work,just siting around and waiting for someone to take charge isnt working at all.

[Diavolo]

I was less than impressed with the overall content, and disgusted by the god and prayer stuff.

Did he go off script? Because the script only had one God reference besides the good night and God bless at the end and that was him quoting a priest.

I have to read everything now. I got rid of cable. Life is better. Much better.

[Toughy]

*banging my head on my desk* *again* *again*

what Rachel Maddow said.........

*bangin head desk*

I am trying to remember some stupid ass joke about smelly undies and soap and rinse repeat....holding undies to nose....soap rinse...nose soap rinse repeat....

a very small part of what Saran Palin said is right.....

*bangin head*
*wash, rinse*
please do not tell me to 'repeat'

and I haven't even begun to think about all the God crap that came out of his mouth........

[AtLast]

All this references to God an prayer is his way of spouting words God didnt do this ,BP and greed did this.The only way its ever going to be cleaned up is for ppl to just do it and hope they get paid at some point for the work,just siting around and waiting for someone to take charge isnt working at all.

This is interesting to read comments about the God/prayer stuff- I thought it was more about the region most affected..... part of the Bible Belt. Right now, those people need to be able to see Obama relate to their values and cultural themes. But, this affects the whole US.. and beyond. And it will for a very long time.

Personally, praying has its place for those that practice it, but this ain't it! I've always had problems with Obama's thoughts on religion and matters of state.

Overall, I don't know what the hell I think about the speech. I think I'm just tired of the politics and the fact that nothing gets done about the amount of oil we use and do not need to. Yo, where was the energy bill?

[MsDemeanor]

Did he go off script? Because the script only had one God reference besides the good night and God bless at the end and that was him quoting a priest.

I have to read everything now. I got rid of cable. Life is better. Much better.
The last six paragraphs of the speech were a little sermon:
It's a faith in the future that sustains us as a people. It is that same faith that sustains our neighbors in the Gulf right now.


Each year, at the beginning of shrimping season, the region's fishermen take part in a tradition that was brought to America long ago by fishing immigrants from Europe. It's called "The Blessing of the Fleet," and today it's a celebration where clergy from different religions gather to say a prayer for the safety and success of the men and women who will soon head out to sea -– some for weeks at a time.


The ceremony goes on in good times and in bad. It took place after Katrina, and it took place a few weeks ago –- at the beginning of the most difficult season these fishermen have ever faced.


And still, they came and they prayed. For as a priest and former fisherman once said of the tradition, "The blessing is not that God has promised to remove all obstacles and dangers. The blessing is that He is with us always," a blessing that's granted "even in the midst of the storm."


The oil spill is not the last crisis America will face. This nation has known hard times before and we will surely know them again. What sees us through -– what has always seen us through –- is our strength, our resilience, and our unyielding faith that something better awaits us if we summon the courage to reach for it.


Tonight, we pray for that courage. We pray for the people of the Gulf. And we pray that a hand may guide us through the storm towards a brighter day. Thank you, God bless you, and may God bless the United States of America.

[Miss Scarlett]

I didn't watch the President's address - not because I no longer support him, I do. But because I am tired of hearing the same thing over and over and over about this mess.

Yes, it is horrible. Yes, I am furious about it. But there is not much new to report and even my beloved NPR is :deadhorse:

BP actually boasted the other day that they would be selling the recovered oil and using the proceeds to help pay for their mess. After hearing that I was left with the impression that the end to that statement was left in the boardroom..."That way we don't lose as much money on this. After all we had pretty much written off any income from this mess. Sothis is almost like found money for us."

I hold Congress responsible for lack of oversight. What happened up there? They failed to maintain many controls on the the financial industry and we had the economic blowout. They failed to keep and eye on the oil industry and we have this mess.

I hold BP responsible for their lack of emergency/disaster planning. Also for their glacially paced response to the disaster.

I also hold society (myself included) responsible for its head in the sand attitude with regard to alternate energy. After the Oil Embargo crisis in the 1970's we should have been light years from where we are now with regard to getting away from fossil fuel dependency.

[Diavolo]

The last six paragraphs of the speech were a little sermon:
It's a faith in the future that sustains us as a people. It is that same faith that sustains our neighbors in the Gulf right now.


Each year, at the beginning of shrimping season, the region's fishermen take part in a tradition that was brought to America long ago by fishing immigrants from Europe. It's called "The Blessing of the Fleet," and today it's a celebration where clergy from different religions gather to say a prayer for the safety and success of the men and women who will soon head out to sea -– some for weeks at a time.


The ceremony goes on in good times and in bad. It took place after Katrina, and it took place a few weeks ago –- at the beginning of the most difficult season these fishermen have ever faced.


And still, they came and they prayed. For as a priest and former fisherman once said of the tradition, "The blessing is not that God has promised to remove all obstacles and dangers. The blessing is that He is with us always," a blessing that's granted "even in the midst of the storm."


The oil spill is not the last crisis America will face. This nation has known hard times before and we will surely know them again. What sees us through -– what has always seen us through –- is our strength, our resilience, and our unyielding faith that something better awaits us if we summon the courage to reach for it.


Tonight, we pray for that courage. We pray for the people of the Gulf. And we pray that a hand may guide us through the storm towards a brighter day. Thank you, God bless you, and may God bless the United States of America.

I found it and listened to it later last night. Yeah, I see what you're saying. And he was off script a little. I almost feel like it was a fuck you to the wingnuts who keep calling him a Muslim or keeping beating him over the head over his middle name. And it did capture the spirituality of the fishing community. I hate having anyone's religon rammed down my throat too, but I can give him a pass on that at this point in his Administration. At least God isn't telling him to go invade countries.

[Sabine Gallais]

I'm not overly concerned about his "faith" and God references because we all know it's about as genuine as....... :praying:

Here we are: broke, polluted, exploited, lied to, jerked around, and basically left for dead ignorant fools…

I just read about how Al Gore now blames Obama for the Gulf of Mexico disaster. And of course, he lambastes the media as well. Where was Gore when he was playing the same games with global warming? Where was his contempt for the same paradigm that supported his lies while he enriched himself? :readfineprint:

This country used to be able to pick itself up, dust itself off, and shake off the BS and get on with things. Right now is about as close to that point as many of us will ever see again in our lifetime. We better wake the F up and soon.

:annoyed:

[MsDemeanor]

I just read about how Al Gore now blames Obama for the Gulf of Mexico disaster.
Link, please?

[Kast]

Dear Americans, it so saddens me to see all of this evil happening to our lands and to the lands of the world. May you find your peace in the midst of it.

[Glenn]

Folks; I've been awake all night trying to understand why our government would not accept help and take away our constitutional rights during this catastrophy. Now I'm thinking it could be because of the methane bulge on the ocean floor which can explode. Did anyone hear about this new info? I've been searching for hours. Here at http://www.astrobio.net/pressrelease/582/methane-thegreat-dying is what they said methane can do in the ocean.

[Sabine Gallais]

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/the-crisis-comes-ashore?page=0,0


Sorry, but you have to subscribe to read the entire piece. :cigar2:

[Soon]

Kax29CwH810&feature=player_embedded

[Kast]

Yeah! Rachel Maddow for President! She'll get something done! Isn't she awesome?

I have to speak up, I can't watch my home country going down the crapper without speaking up to help the people understand what the hail is going on?... you realize that this 'spill' is in a media black out to the world? Well... I've witnessed many black outs, you see... there is no real 'free' press anymore - the 'main stream' media is owned by corporate America. They choose what news you've been hearing for years, yeah - it's a propaganda machine.

The more you censor the words of people the more fascist this country is going to remain. The people need to speak up now, more than ever in the history of our country, it's going to take the chains of the Constitution to unbind America or she will fall further into fascism.

There's a few pulses to what's really happening in America, on some sites with threads, if it's not too heavily monitored to shut the people up and where the people are allowed to speak, you can get better idea of what's happening - sites like Twitter and Facebook, possibly?

[MsDemeanor]

Let me get this straight.

- BP spill destroys gulf environment, wildlife, businesses, jobs, health.

- President negotiates with BP for a $20B escrow account to pay damages.

- Republicans are outraged that BP has to put up money, apologize to BP.
linkyloo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/17/gop-outraged-by-shakedown_n_615686.html)

- People still actually vote for these yahoos.

Proving once again that I live in the land of the truly stupid.

[AtLast]

Let me get this straight.

- BP spill destroys gulf environment, wildlife, businesses, jobs, health.

- President negotiates with BP for a $20B escrow account to pay damages.

- Republicans are outraged that BP has to put up money, apologize to BP.
linkyloo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/17/gop-outraged-by-shakedown_n_615686.html)

- People still actually vote for these yahoos.

Proving once again that I live in the land of the truly stupid.

Yup, you do! We all do!

So, when will the campaign contribution lists for these GOP politicians be published with the amounts BP is contributing to them?

... right at this very moment!

When our we going to see that we MUST have publically funded elections!!! And now with the last SC ruling about corporations as individuals... we are so fucked!

Yet, the real problem lies in the culture we have created with corporate welfare and class. No way will publically funded elections happen in the US without change in cultural values and goals.

[MsDemeanor]

It seems that even Boehner and Cantor thought the comments were too much, and those two have set the bar really high...

linkyloo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/17/gop-leaders-threatened-to_n_616374.html)

[MsDemeanor]

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/the-crisis-comes-ashore?page=0,0


Sorry, but you have to subscribe to read the entire piece. :cigar2:
Oh well, I guess I'll never get to read about how Gore blames Obama for the Gulf of Mexico disaster. Too bad, I was really curious what that actually means. Maybe some non-pay service will pick up the news and report it. After all, if Obama personally caused the explosion, that's kinda a front-page headline.

[dreadgeek]

Let me get this straight.

- BP spill destroys gulf environment, wildlife, businesses, jobs, health.

- President negotiates with BP for a $20B escrow account to pay damages.

- Republicans are outraged that BP has to put up money, apologize to BP.
linkyloo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/17/gop-outraged-by-shakedown_n_615686.html)

- People still actually vote for these yahoos.

Proving once again that I live in the land of the truly stupid.

MsD:

I may not have posted this here before so I'll do it now. You see, you are laboring under the liberal delusion that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. It isn't. Let me explain:

Let's say that a Republican is walking by a burning house and sees a child in the window. He rushes in and saves the child. That is American can-do spirit and Christian charity at its best, proving that only in America would adults rush in to save a child because only in America is life valued.

Same situation except this time it’s a Democrat. She rushes in and saves the child. That's just Democrats wanting 'big nanny state' control over the lives of ordinary Americans. Perhaps that child WANTED to be burnt to death. Perhaps the parents of that child CHOOSE to have that child burnt to death. Who is this Democrat to 'rescue' the child? At any rate, the child should have the foresight to be fireproof. You don't see ME in a window of a burning house trying to get out do you? What happened to good ol' American can-do spirit.

You see the difference? In the case of the Republican rescuing the child is an unqualified good thing. In the case of the Democrat it's just one more step on the road to tyranny.

Now, as far as the tragedy unfolding in the Gulf. How we should frame this is sensitively dependent upon the party occupying the White House. Since this is a Democratic administration, holding BP responsible is yet another step on the road to tyranny. Perhaps the people of the Gulf WANT oil on their beaches. Perhaps they want to get out of the shrimping industry. Who are a bunch of Washington bureaucrats to say that the people in these industries should have to stay in them just because they say they "want" to? At any rate, we should let the market speak. If people don't like oil on beaches they won't go to those beaches and new industries will sprout up elsewhere. Looked at through the correct (read Republican) light BP is the REAL victim here.

If a Republican were in President demanding that BP make restitution would be a show of strength of the American President and a sign that no American is going to get pushed around by some tea-sipping English elitist. But it's a Democratic President so All Real Americans (tm) should see that the mere *thought* of corporations being held responsible is something so horrific that not even Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Usama bin Laden *combined* would contemplate such a thing.

Got it?

[Kast]

Cover Up of Population Control

http://www.prisonplanet.com/msnbc-in-cover-up-of-manifestly-provable-population-control-plan.html

[dreadgeek]

Folks; I've been awake all night trying to understand why our government would not accept help and take away our constitutional rights during this catastrophy. Now I'm thinking it could be because of the methane bulge on the ocean floor which can explode. Did anyone hear about this new info? I've been searching for hours. Here at http://www.astrobio.net/pressrelease/582/methane-thegreat-dying is what they said methane can do in the ocean.

Popcorn:

I'm aware of this hypothesis and, as far as it goes to explain the P/T boundary extinction event it is certainly interesting. However, I don't think that it actually relates to *this* situation. There are concerns about a rapid release of methane (which is ALSO a greenhouse gas) but not because of the oil spill. Rather, there is a lot---I mean a HUGE amount--of methane locked up in the tundra and at the bottom of the ocean. If a large enough rise in temperature were to occur then that methane would be released into the atmosphere but not explosively. It would still be a BAD DAY but it wouldn't be a P/T extinction kind of bad day. Methane is a more powerful greenhouse gas than CO_2 but that is mitigated by having a very short (10 years) half-life in atmosphere.

I'm not aware of a large amount of methanehydrate at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico (full disclosure, I am NOT an oceanographer) and could not find anything to suggest that there is one. Whatever incompetencies and/or willful blindness on the part of our government regarding this disaster, I am fairly confident that fears of a P/T style extinction isn't one of them. I say this for two reasons--firstly, that kind of mass extinction is vanishingly improbable (while still having a probability that is not identical to zero) and is not likely to be triggered by THIS disaster. Secondly, there is a far more serious threat that we know, for a fact, has caused at least one mass extinction in the last 100 million years and our government is putting scant resources into either detecting the threat or planning what to do if (when?) that threat appears. I'm talking, of course, about large asteroids that are on orbits that might bring them perilously close to the Earth. (That said, a new large telescope has just gone online in Hawaii and it will be dedicated--at least part of the time--to detecting 'killer' asteroids.)

Thirdly, there are some things that if they happen we just can't do anything about. An asteroid we *might* be able to handle but if a very large pocket of methane is going to explode, it will happen without warning and if it's serious enough to cause a P/T scale extinction there's nothing we can do about it. The other one is a gamma-ray burst from an inconveniently near supernova. One of those would make for a VERY BAD DAY hear on Earth and we wouldn't know about it until it happened since the signal that it had happened would be the light from the supernova itself which would, of course, have gamma-rays as part of it.

I would't stay up worrying about the methane.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

Cover Up of Population Control

http://www.prisonplanet.com/msnbc-in-cover-up-of-manifestly-provable-population-control-plan.html

Ummm....I don't even know where to begin. I think I'll start here:

"During a recent TED conference, an organization which is sponsored by one of the largest toxic waste polluters on the planet, Gates told the audience that vaccines need to be used to reduce world population figures in order to solve global warming and lower CO2 emissions to almost zero."

This is NOT what Bill Gates said. What's more, the author, Watson, is wrong when he states that vaccines, reproductive health services and improved health care wouldn't have a *downward* pressure on population growth. In fact, it would have a downward pressure for a very straightforward reason--the fewer babies that die in infancy or early childhood, the fewer children women tend to have. Unless you are from a Mormon or conservative Catholic family, chances are your number of siblings is some number under 6. However, go back to generations born in the late 19th or early 20th century and that number will jump to 10 or more. My mother came from a family of 13! siblings. No member of her family had more than four kids. What was different? The 20th century improvement in medicine and public health.

The fact that both the main Prison Planet web site and the article (which is the ONLY reference to Bill Gate's statement about using vaccines to reduce population) use a howler of a statement and fail to link to the *full text* of Bill Gate's TED talk makes them suspect.

There is a great deal of non-trivial difference between trying to get to zero (or better yet, negative) population growth and an 80 to 90% die off.

Cheers
Aj

[Glenn]

Appreciated your opinion AJ. I think what Kam meant was that without oil or some other cheap energy source, there would be no way to sustain the population we have now. The math does'nt add up. Population was steady for many centuries before the industrial revolution when it peaked.

[Kast]

I am a medical science researcher, I cannot tell you everything I know to be true - other than to let you know, this is what I do. I am currently researching the air, water, and rain water here, which I did the same in the South in America and have identified pathogens that are experimental in nature that came from the Gulf of Mexico - Mexico Beach/St. Joe, FL area. This is where Tyndall is, right where the oil spill is encroaching presently. I highly recommend that people in the surround States to the Gulf start thinking about moving out of the area, when the first storms come - they will be carrying very acidic/pathogenic rains. There is a YouTube out today and I totally agree with what they are saying:

MOVE OUT OF THE SOUTHERN STATES you are going to get sick

YouTube- oil spill - MOVE OUT OF THE SOUTHERN STATES you are going to get sick

[Glenn]

Not to mention the fires everywhere...Oh but then again BP is taking care of it so we should be safe.

[Toughy]

I am a medical science researcher, I cannot tell you everything I know to be true - other than to let you know, this is what I do. I am currently researching the air, water, and rain water here, which I did the same in the South in America and have identified pathogens that are experimental in nature that came from the Gulf of Mexico - Mexico Beach/St. Joe, FL area. This is where Tyndall is, right where the oil spill is encroaching presently. I highly recommend that people in the surround States to the Gulf start thinking about moving out of the area, when the first storms come - they will be carrying very acidic/pathogenic rains. There is a YouTube out today and I totally agree with what they are saying:

MOVE OUT OF THE SOUTHERN STATES you are going to get sick

YouTube- oil spill - MOVE OUT OF THE SOUTHERN STATES you are going to get sick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvXd49G3daQ)

A medical scientist researching air, water and rain water; care to be a bit more specific?

What pathogens? I have background in microbiology, virology and parasitology, so I would prefer details and specificity.

What does Tyndall Air Force Base (I assume that's what you mean by Tyndall) located near Panama City have to do with anything?

I would agree that, depending on the hurricane season, there is legitimate concern about what those storms will do in terms of washing more of that toxic goo to shore and what it means if any of that toxic goo gets caught up in the wind, rain and storm surge of any size hurricane.

I would agree there is a real problem with those folks cleaning up this goo on the shore not having appropriate safety gear. There will be and already are health consequences.

With all the conflicting reports from many sources, it's hard to figure out who is in charge when it comes to the press having access and what is staged and what is accurate.

The longer that well head spews oil, mud and gas the worse the scenario gets.

------------
popcorn.........

you can't be serious about some conspiracy between Obama and BP to have a 'little leak' for whatever reason.......really you can't believe that.......it's, frankly, a ludicrous idea.

I assume the fires you are talking about is BP intentionally setting some areas of surface oil on fire. They have been doing that off and on since the beginning. It is a common practice across the world. I'm not sure what you mean by 'fires everywhere'......could you explain a bit more?

[AtLast]

At this point, I am not confident with much from anyone about the ramifications of this spill. Not BP, not the government, not even scientists. We put so little into scientific investigation in the US, I don't believe that have even had a chance to do sound research in the techniques available to deal with this. Also, science is bought and paid for in this country every single day and politically impure.

[Kast]

Here's one thing that's needed - skimmers, except the U.S. has an environmental ban on them, the Dutch have been on standby since early May.

Ask your Congressman to get the environmental ban lifted on the Dutch skimmers

http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/dutch-oil-spill-response-team-standby-us-oil-disaster

[Toughy]

http://www.examiner.com/x-325-Global-Warming-Examiner~y2010m6d12-US-reconsiders-Dutch-offer-to-supply-oil-skimmers

headline:

U.S. reconsiders Dutch offer to supply oil skimmers

please note: I do not believe ANY oil should be drilled for in the ocean at any depth.

[Kast]

http://medicalmuckraker.wordpress.com/2010/06/16/epa-silencing-scientists-again/#more-368

"Said one EPA employee: “Anything that could look bad to the press isn’t being done. We’re completely ignoring the biggest environmental disaster ever in the U.S.”"

Did they really say this, why would they say this?

[dreadgeek]

I am a medical science researcher, I cannot tell you everything I know to be true - other than to let you know, this is what I do. I am currently researching the air, water, and rain water here, which I did the same in the South in America and have identified pathogens that are experimental in nature that came from the Gulf of Mexico - Mexico Beach/St. Joe, FL area. This is where Tyndall is, right where the oil spill is encroaching presently. I highly recommend that people in the surround States to the Gulf start thinking about moving out of the area, when the first storms come - they will be carrying very acidic/pathogenic rains. There is a YouTube out today and I totally agree with what they are saying:

MOVE OUT OF THE SOUTHERN STATES you are going to get sick

YouTube- oil spill - MOVE OUT OF THE SOUTHERN STATES you are going to get sick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvXd49G3daQ)

When you say 'experimental pathogens' could you be a bit more specific? What kind of experimental pathogens? When I hear that phrase, I think of something very specific--like Fort Detrick Special Pathogens Lab specific. Do you mean unfamiliar pathogens or novel, deliberately designed anthropogenic pathogens?

Out of sheer professional curiosity, what is your research speciality? I'm very interested in epidemiology as my 'third act'. Have been fascinated by the subject ever since I did reporting on the HIV/AIDS research back in the early 90's and was completely hooked by Laurie Garrett's brilliant book "The Coming Plague". So when you said you did medical science research my ears perked up.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

http://medicalmuckraker.wordpress.com/2010/06/16/epa-silencing-scientists-again/#more-368

"Said one EPA employee: “Anything that could look bad to the press isn’t being done. We’re completely ignoring the biggest environmental disaster ever in the U.S.”"

Did they really say this, why would they say this?

The problem I have with this article is that it isn't attributed. I could *say* that I know a biologist who says that they have vat-grown a bacteria that could dumped into the Gulf right now and would eat all the oil within a matter of days and then die off. That doesn't mean I have spoken to that scientist but I could say that I have. If I said, "<Insert Name Here> has written this paper which you can read here..." then that would have some veracity to it but, unfortunately, the article you linked to doesn't give us anything to go on. At a time like this, I am reminded of the old saw "a lie can be halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on". I'm not saying that the blogger in question is lying, but I'm rather suspect because there's absolutely no attribution, not even a hint of one.

[dreadgeek]

Not to mention the fires everywhere...Oh but then again BP is taking care of it so we should be safe.

Are you talking about the fire from the lightning strike or the fires lit to burn off some of the surface oil? I wasn't aware of widespread fires from this.

[Glenn]

Yes lightning strikes. If a freak storm sets all that oil off it could be a nightmare of horror. Oil can also form a vapor cloud of it's own if it sits long enough due to all the vapors/gasses built into the storm itself. A storm cloud that is so heavy it could self ignite and pour down acid rain. Also if a hurricane is a giant blender than lightning can ignite a oil ball that spews out anywhere.

[dreadgeek]

Appreciated your opinion AJ. I think what Kam meant was that without oil or some other cheap energy source, there would be no way to sustain the population we have now. The math does'nt add up. Population was steady for many centuries before the industrial revolution when it peaked.

Actually, population has fluctuated sometimes wildly. Population has been on an overall upward trend for the last 40 or 50,000 years (but that was easy because all of us are descended from a population of no more than about 10,000 breeding pairs living about 50K years ago). But with various diseases Europe alone had two or three big die offs from plague alone (at least one of those was half the population of Europe and that's just one continent). It is almost certain that we cannot maintain 8 or 9 billion people (that number, barring a catastrophic event is a fait accompli at this point) without technology. There are (relatively) cheap energy sources that could be deployed now but I doubt that the United States will do them in a timely or sane fashion. As far as agriculture the thing that would be *most* useful is GMOs but, for reasons that mystify me, people seem to think that there is a fundamental difference between taking the genes of one living thing and randomly mixing it the genes of another living thing (what we've spent the last 12,000 years doing with all our crops and the last 20,000 years with animals) and taking the genes of one living thing and non-randomly mixing it with the genes of another living thing (genetic engineering). Certainly from the gene's point of view, those are equivalent.

Perhaps you are right. I read the article that Kam linked to to be saying that Bill Gates was saying we should use vaccines as a way of culling the population but it is certainly possible that I misread it.

[dreadgeek]

Yes lightning strikes. If a freak storm sets all that oil off it could be a nightmare of horror. Oil can also form a vapor cloud of it's own if it sits long enough due to all the vapors/gasses built into the storm itself. A storm cloud that is so heavy it could self ignite and pour down acid rain. Also if a hurricane is a giant blender than lightning can ignite a oil ball that spews out anywhere.

Well I know there was one lightning strike on a ship and that a fire broke out because of it. I wasn't aware that this had happened multiple times during this incident. (I took your fires everywhere comment literally to mean that *currently* there were fires, well, everywhere directly related to this oil spill. I presume, now, that's not what you meant?)

[Glenn]

As we speak, Fema is holding meetings in Florida and elsewhere discussing this possibility and solutions. I just read about it today in the Tampa Bay Tribune, and at Allspark.com. Lightning has set many fires off oil. Also these experts warn that the oil can act like a thermal blanket raising water temperature giving these storms more energy

[AtLast]

http://www.examiner.com/x-325-Global-Warming-Examiner~y2010m6d12-US-reconsiders-Dutch-offer-to-supply-oil-skimmers

headline:

U.S. reconsiders Dutch offer to supply oil skimmers

please note: I do not believe ANY oil should be drilled for in the ocean at any depth.

I don't either. No matter what depth, I just believe that the resources will ever be in place to do this safely. And we can try to regulate til the cows come home and it won't matter.

What I am just going nuts over is that our priorities are so ass backwards!

[dreadgeek]

I don't either. No matter what depth, I just believe that the resources will ever be in place to do this safely. And we can try to regulate til the cows come home and it won't matter.

What I am just going nuts over is that our priorities are so ass backwards!

We absolutely should stop all off-shore drilling at this point although, to be perfectly honest, I think it's *possible* to do it safely but corporations in America--for reasons that are pretty self-evident now--don't have to do common sensical things like drilling emergency relief wells.

Our priorities ARE out-of-whack. We *could* be phasing out private petroleum-powered vehicles for electric vehicles if we had started working on it, say, 20 years ago but we didn't. We could be largely off of fossil fuels for electricity generation had we poured research funds into solar, wind and fast-breeder nuclear reactors (which are far more stable AND feed off their own waste products) but we didn't. The oil situation isn't a surprise, it's been a known approaching issue for at least three decades now.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

As we speak, Fema is holding meetings in Florida and elsewhere discussing this possibility and solutions. I just read about it today in the Tampa Bay Tribune, and at Allspark.com. Lightning has set many fires off oil. Also these experts warn that the oil can act like a thermal blanket raising water temperature giving these storms more energy

Could I trouble you to post a link to the Allspark.com you are talking about? The url http://www.allspark.com takes me to a Transformers site and I'm reasonably certain that's not what you're talking about. I'd be interested in reading more about what these experts are saying.

Cheers
Aj

[Sabine Gallais]

Drilling a second or third relief well only exacerbates the situation... Chances are, the entire seabed is about to erupt creating a “super tsunami” @ 400 – 600 mph …


http://www.helium.com/items/1864136-how-the-ultimate-bp-gulf-disaster-could-kill-millions

[Kast]

I don't know if this video has already been posted but it pretty much explains what's going on:

What's really going on with America's oilspill:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7886780711843120756#

[dreadgeek]

Drilling a second or third relief well only exacerbates the situation... Chances are, the entire seabed is about to erupt creating a “super tsunami” @ 400 – 600 mph …


http://www.helium.com/items/1864136-how-the-ultimate-bp-gulf-disaster-could-kill-millions

I have not been able to find a single reputable (read peer reviewed) source that confirms this. Everything I have been able to find has been breathless writings on various blogs which, as far as I can tell, all appear to be referencing one another. All of those appear to be leading back to Richard C. Hoagland who, not to put too fine a point on it, has no real credibility given his penchant for "the moon landing never happened" conspiracy theories. I checked at the USGS (US Geological Survey) and could find nothing about this. I checked at SciAm and New Scientist *both* of which have scientists reporting from the field on this spill and while there are articles about methane seeping up through the water column, no mention of a giant tsunami that could kill large numbers of people.

I think that what is happening in this instance is that there is an echo-chamber effect--one person screams out on their blog WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!! and then someone else, picking up that blog post writes on THEIR blog "some people are saying WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE" and then someone reads that post and writes on THEIR blog "I'VE SEEN THIS IN TWO PLACES ON THE WEB. WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!"

http://www.scientificamerican.com/search/index.cfm?q=gulf+of+mexico+methane&submit.x=0&submit.y=0&submit=submit

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=deepwater-spill-survey-sampling-wat-2010-06-16

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=track-methane-to-gauge-si

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=deepwater-methane-study

I am NOT saying that it's impossible. I am saying that, at present, I have a hard time seeing any evidence for this event being at all likely (while still having a non-zero probability). The only people who appear to be saying that this kind of thing is likely to happen either aren't credentialed, won't cite their sources, or have a history of wild-eyed conspiracy mongering which seriously damages their credibility.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

I don't know if this video has already been posted but it pretty much explains what's going on:

What's really going on with America's oilspill:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7886780711843120756#

Ummm...no. This is nothing more than some very thin conspiracy mongering. Isn't it possible--just *possible*, mind you--that this is a very tragic, very large, but ultimately very pedestrian industrial accident brought about by corporate incompetence and lax (read nonexistent) government regulation? I'm not asking if you think it's true, clearly you see some kind of fantastic machinations taking place, but I'm asking if you have considered the possibility that it might *NOT* be a giant conspiracy but just what it appears to be--an industrial accident of gigantic proportions.

[Glenn]

EPA just released the results of their atmosperic tests at ground zero and they are downright scary. http:/gulfcoast.airtectnow.org/ for any of you living near the gulf to check daily. Clean up crews are getting paid 19-30 an hour by BP but are getting sick.

[dreadgeek]

EPA just released the results of their atmosperic tests at ground zero and they are downright scary. http:/gulfcoast.airtectnow.org/ for any of you living near the gulf to check daily. Clean up crews are getting paid 19-30 an hour by BP but are getting sick.

Could you please repost the link? The link you gave returns a 404 error.

Thanks.

Cheers
Aj

[Glenn]

these geniuses have drilled into an active VOLCANO where oil and poisonuos gases are shooting up out of the ocean floor. This video was shot nowhere near the rig. http://youtube.com/watch?v=KbN7v8OTDdw

[dreadgeek]

EPA just released the results of their atmosperic tests at ground zero and they are downright scary. http:/gulfcoast.airtectnow.org/ for any of you living near the gulf to check daily. Clean up crews are getting paid 19-30 an hour by BP but are getting sick.

these geniuses have drilled into an active VOLCANO where oil and poisonuos gases are shooting up out of the ocean floor. This video was shot nowhere near the rig. http://youtube.com/watch?v=KbN7v8OTDdw

Was this the site you were talking about?

http://gulfcoast.airnowtech.org/

This is an even better site:

http://www.epa.gov/bpspill/air.html

Could you explain what it is in the data that is scary?

Also the YouTube link didn't work.

What active volcano?

[dreadgeek]

these geniuses have drilled into an active VOLCANO where oil and poisonuos gases are shooting up out of the ocean floor. This video was shot nowhere near the rig. http://youtube.com/watch?v=KbN7v8OTDdw

What is the name of the volcano? I Googled "active volcanoes Gulf of Mexico" and got no hits. So then I Googled "list of all active volcanoes" and none of the maps or lists show an active volcano in the coordinates corresponding to the Gulf of Mexico. Can you give us some more information, please?

If you are going to post this stuff, PLEASE give us the resources to look into this for ourselves.

[Glenn]

Aj; I understand about the motto "ask the experts first" but they are saying that "we've never been in a hurricane situation where an oil spill occurred, or are keeping mum until something Does ocurr. We the People are left to use our own noodles, since this is no longer the sixties where an angry mob would have gathered demanding knowledge of what could happen

[dreadgeek]

Aj; I understand about the motto ask the experts but they are saying that "we've never been in a hurricane situation where an oil spill occurred, or are keeping mum until something does ocurr. We the people are left to use our own noodles.

Okay but in order to use our own noodles we need *information* not just any information *good* information. Why is it that these blog websites know that there is a methane bubble that is going to explode any minute now but neither of the two premier American scientific magazines who have scientists *on-site and doing real-time analysis and reporting* know anything about it?

There is a lot of opportunity for hysterical overreaction (and I'm NOT saying you are being hysterical or overreacting) and so I think it is important that information that is being disseminated should be sourced and that the source should be reputable. BP I don't particularly trust because they have a fiscal interest in downplaying this. But the various universities that have sent researchers to the site as well as the USGS and the EPA have exactly the *opposite* motivation as BP--they have no fiduciary interest and their reputations can be made or destroyed on how they do their research.

My primary concern is that unsourced, uncorroborated information is being spread around and that THIS information--because it is dramatic and can be put out in a few short sentences--will crowd out *GOOD* information which is less dramatic and requires a bit more reading and digestion. Most people (again not saying you) will prefer the easily digestible bad information over the more difficult good information.

If someone drilled into an active volcano in the Gulf of Mexico, what is the name of the volcano? What are the coordinates of that volcano? A YouTube video makes great visuals but it doesn't actually provide information.

If the EPA air sampling is scary what, precisely, is scary about it? What datum scared you? Giving those charts a cursory reading didn't seem all that alarming.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm not saying you're right. I'm asking for information so I can use MY noodle but so far, the information has either been not-forthcoming, not reliable or unavailable.

I'm sorry to look at what appears to be a scientific problem with the eye of a scientist but, well, this IS a scientific and engineering problem and I think that it helps to look at it with the eye of a scientist or an engineer.

[Kast]

No, dread, not even close, it's all been planned for years... I'm trying to help you understand what's happening - nothing is as it seems - except that gushing hole of oil/gas, etc., etc., is real... our Government... there is no real Government, it's all a facade, we all work for the Federal Reserve - whether we know it or not - our Government and all corporations are all puppets of the Federal Reserve which the above video explains, Obama gave the Federal Reserve $3T for the stimulus package when he first came in, Congress didn't have any say, one way or another - he pushed it through because they all work for the Federal Reserve - the people that own all the money in the world - hello! They have turned around using that money to finance 'certain missions', they own BP, and this $20B will never get to the people, Obama just handed it back to the Federal Reserve again... Listen to this inside conversation coming from this fellow, he knows what's going on:

YouTube- Lindsey Williams on Radio Liberty with Dr. Stan Monteith 1/5: What Will Happen to America in 2010


In Video 1 - he talks about food and water supplies and the necessities...

[Glenn]

Pardon Me AJ Aka Flying Spagetti Monster, YouTube- BP Oil Spill: Why They Can't Stop The Leak!!!!!. It's not like we are saying a giant fish or Godzilla is coming out of the ocean to eat us. These are all distict possibilities that can happen, and I want to know the truth...that's all.

[dreadgeek]

No, dread, not even close, it's all been planned for years... I'm trying to help you understand what's happening - nothing is as it seems - except that gushing hole of oil/gas, etc., etc., is real... our Government... there is no real Government, it's all a facade, we all work for the Federal Reserve - whether we know it or not - our Government and all corporations are all puppets of the Federal Reserve which the above video explains, Obama gave the Federal Reserve $3T for the stimulus package when he first came in, Congress didn't have any say, one way or another - he pushed it through because they all work for the Federal Reserve - the people that own all the money in the world - hello! They have turned around using that money to finance this disaster, they own BP, and this $2B will never get to the people, Obama just handed it back to the Federal Reserve again... Listen to this inside conversation coming from this fellow, he knows what's going on:

YouTube- Lindsey Williams on Radio Liberty with Dr. Stan Monteith 1/5: What Will Happen to America in 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKBRXZMVo5k)


In Video 1 - he talks about food and water supplies and the necessities...

So what you are saying is that this oil rig disaster was planned years in advance. What's more, the Federal Stimulus was quite a bit smaller--by a factor of four smaller--than $3 trillion. Congress DID vote on the stimulus because the President doesn't control the pursestrings Congress does. What $2 billion are you talking about? Do you mean $20 billion?

I took a look at Dr. Monteith's web site and, quite honestly, what I've read so far seems rather far-fetched.

[Kast]

Ok, who's 87 years old, a powerful political force associated with the Alaskan Pipeline and has had negotiations with China?... the head honcho of the Bilderberg Group? The Alaskan Pipeline have you checked it out lately? If you do a Google search you'll see who this War Lord is that is in control of the world, why... it's the devil himself. I think he's been mentioned a few times already... he controls the world and all of politics and he's fooled us all.

[Sabine Gallais]

Look, it's pretty simple. The Gulf of Mexico as we knew it is now dead. And, we did it. The frustrating thing about almost any government response to an emergency is that it’s hard to tell if their incompetence is deliberate or intentional since they’re so good at both.

I don't need science to tell me that.

[Kast]

Why? and what happened?

http://www.theinterim.com/july98/20nssm.html

Do a little homework, dig around...

[dreadgeek]

Pardon Me AJ Aka Flying Spagetti Monster, YouTube- BP Oil Spill: Why They Can't Stop The Leak!!!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbN7v80TDdw). It's not like we are saying a giant fish or Godzilla is coming out of the ocean to eat us. These are all distict possibilities that can happen, and I want to know the truth...that's all.

All I want to know is the truth as well popcorn. But the truth requires *facts*. If someone drilled into a volcano, that volcano is on *some* survey of active volcanoes on the planet. That means that the volcano has a name (or at least a designation) and a precise geographical coordinate so what is the name of the volcano and where is it located?

I'm not saying that these aren't distinct possibilities but is there any *evidence* for it? There is a distinct possibility that a rock the size of Manhattan could crash into the Earth in the next month. There is absolutely a non-zero probability of this happening but that doesn't mean that we have any reason to believe that this will happen in the next 30 days because there is no evidence for it.

If there is a real danger of a gigantic methane bubble exploding and creating a huge tsunami, why is it that the only places that know about it are these breathless blogs but not a *single* scientific web site or science-based blog? Not one?

Btw. I'm NOT the Flying Spaghetti Monster (Peace and Sauce be Upon Her, Ramen). I am a member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster--well not really, the FSM is a parody invented by a UC Davis student to point out the utter absurdity of teaching intelligent design (creationism dressed up for court) in biology classrooms.

[dreadgeek]

Ok, who's 87 years old, a powerful political force associated with the Alaskan Pipeline and has had negotiations with China?... the head honcho of the Bilderberg Group? The Alaskan Pipeline have you checked it out lately? If you do a Google search you'll see who this War Lord is that is in control of the world, why... it's the devil himself. I think he's been mentioned a few times already... he controls the world and all of politics and he's fooled us all.

The Devil? You mean Satan? As in Old Scratch?

[MsDemeanor]

Aj, I admire your patience.

[Glenn]

Ok, who's 87 years old, a powerful political force associated with the Alaskan Pipeline and has had negotiations with China?... the head honcho of the Bilderberg Group? The Alaskan Pipeline have you checked it out lately? If you do a Google search you'll see who this War Lord is that is in control of the world, why... it's the devil himself. I think he's been mentioned a few times already... he controls the world and all of politics and he's fooled us all.

Ha! Thinkin bout another unusual detail concerning the spill I just noticed on the web. The spill happened on April 20. April 19/20are high holy days in occult matters. Matters concerning sacrificial offerings. It is alleged to be the changed birthday of Hitler. Columbine occured and Waco and other atrocities. Even the American Revolution. Article on April mishaps http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/220476/april bloody april.

[dreadgeek]

Look, it's pretty simple. The Gulf of Mexico as we knew it is now dead. And, we did it. The frustrating thing about almost any government response to an emergency is that it’s hard to tell if their incompetence is deliberate or intentional since they’re so good at both.

I don't need science to tell me that.

Okay no, you don't. But you DO need science to understand what impacts there will be and how serious they will be. You DO need science to understand the air hazard. You DO need science to predict the flow of oil. You DO need science to clean up the mess.

No, you don't need science to know that an oil spill happened and you don't need science to know that the government has bungled the response. But everything AFTER that requires science. People can pray for the oil to disappear from now until the Universe undergoes heat death in another 30 billion years or so and it won't do a damn bit of good. When this mess is cleaned up (and it will be eventually) it will be science that played a crucial part in that happening. When the Gulf of Mexico rebounds (and it WILL rebound, life has seen far, far, far worse than this in the last 4 billion years) it will be science that helps us understand what was preserved and what was lost. So in order to truly assess this event as it unfolds and all of its downstream implications requires science.

Oh and lest anyone say that science got us into this mess, not even wrong. The failure of the Deepwater Horizon was a failure of engineering, capitalism and governance but it wasn't a failure of science.

[MsDemeanor]

there is no real Government, it's all a facade, we all work for the Federal Reserve - whether we know it or not - our Government and all corporations are all puppets of the Federal Reserve which the above video explains, Obama gave the Federal Reserve $3T for the stimulus package when he first came in, Congress didn't have any say, one way or another - he pushed it through because they all work for the Federal Reserve - the people that own all the money in the world - hello!

Ha! Thinkin bout another unusual detail concerning the spill I just noticed on the web. The spill happened on April 20. April 19/20are high holy days in occult matters. Matters concerning sacrificial offerings. It is alleged to be the changed birthday of Hitler. Columbine occured and Waco and other atrocities. Even the American Revolution. Article on April mishaps http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/220476/april bloody april.
Wow, that's some serious wingnut conspiracy stuff in these posts. Wow.

[AtLast]

Okay no, you don't. But you DO need science to understand what impacts there will be and how serious they will be. You DO need science to understand the air hazard. You DO need science to predict the flow of oil. You DO need science to clean up the mess.

No, you don't need science to know that an oil spill happened and you don't need science to know that the government has bungled the response. But everything AFTER that requires science. People can pray for the oil to disappear from now until the Universe undergoes heat death in another 30 billion years or so and it won't do a damn bit of good. When this mess is cleaned up (and it will be eventually) it will be science that played a crucial part in that happening. When the Gulf of Mexico rebounds (and it WILL rebound, life has seen far, far, far worse than this in the last 4 billion years) it will be science that helps us understand what was preserved and what was lost. So in order to truly assess this event as it unfolds and all of its downstream implications requires science.

Oh and lest anyone say that science got us into this mess, not even wrong. The failure of the Deepwater Horizon was a failure of engineering, capitalism and governance but it wasn't a failure of science.




And we need to take the money needed to fund science more seriously in the US! For the most part, it is funded at educational institutions.. we all know what that means since the US has been in free-throw decline educationally in the global picture.

Then, there are the bought and paid for scientists by corporations like BP- if our scientific community were funded properly, this would not happen. Scientists would be well paid and remain independent.

I actually get a little angry when I hear the phrase... If we can send a man to the moon..... we haven't put the support into science (including what stem cells can help us with) since JFK made his moon speech in 1960!

Now, science is a big part of this, but, the three simple words... reduce, reuse and recycle are very important... and the first two are the most significant. Many people just figure, Oh, I can keep buying this kind of packaging, it now can go into the recycle bin. However, look at what gets tossed from that bin while the bins is processed at facilities and ends up in landfill because there is simply too damn much of it!

And public financed elections would go a long way to stop the greed based persuasions of our political system.

I actually do not buy we, the common people, have no say.... I refuse to be helpless and remain a victim. The people of the Gulf need our getting off our behinds more than ever... and this will have lasting effect on us all forever.

The local level of democracy right now (look at the people fighting for their shorelines, fish, etc. right now saying Fuck you, I am not waiting for a clean-up decision about my home!

Complacency and our own inaction in allowing the power structure to evolve and prevail is a big part of why and how these things happen. Are you contacting your representatives (yes, it does matter)? Do you support education in your own communities? Have you stood silent as positions in wildlife and forestry departments have been tossed? Do you ever volunteer for annual clean-ups of the preserves, etc. that you live near and enjoy?

You can't tell me that if scientists were part of the initial deep water drilling hypothesis and were respected in this country (and paid well and receive the funding they need to do research, without corporate bias), this would have happened. When top minds are owned by the corporate Wall Street driven entities, this is the result.

I can't tell you how many times I hear at city council meetings bitching about environmental impact studies, yet, when something goes wrong, the blame game starts. We can't have it both ways.

Sorry, I'm on a rant. I am so frustrated and just can't accept that we the people cannot change things. And I sit here wondering about the other oil rigs out there and when the next one will blow while I see multi-billionaire election candidates buying elected offices and no one seems to get that this is exactly why we are in this mess!

We need to change our priorities! No, science did not get us in this mess, the lack of support and respect for science sure as hell contributed to this, however! And hell, I am no hard-science wiz! Get science out of the clutches of politics!!

[dreadgeek]

No, dread, not even close, it's all been planned for years... I'm trying to help you understand what's happening - nothing is as it seems - except that gushing hole of oil/gas, etc., etc., is real... our Government... there is no real Government, it's all a facade, we all work for the Federal Reserve - whether we know it or not - our Government and all corporations are all puppets of the Federal Reserve which the above video explains, Obama gave the Federal Reserve $3T for the stimulus package when he first came in, Congress didn't have any say, one way or another - he pushed it through because they all work for the Federal Reserve - the people that own all the money in the world - hello! They have turned around using that money to finance 'certain missions', they own BP, and this $20B will never get to the people, Obama just handed it back to the Federal Reserve again... Listen to this inside conversation coming from this fellow, he knows what's going on:


Fact 1: The 2009 Stimulus package was $787 Billion not $3 Trillion
Fact 2: The 2009 Stimulus package was passed by both houses of Congress
Fact 3: The President is NOT empowered to spend money. Only Congress can appropriate funds:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

Fact 4: The Federal Reserve is not empowered to spend money. The Federal Reserve is statutorily limited to the following powers:

1>Conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates.

2>Supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system, and protect the credit rights of consumers.

3>Maintaining stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets.

4>Providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation's payments system.

Fact 5: The 2009 Stimulus was passed by Congress on 15 February 2009.

Fact 6: The Federal Reserve do not own "all the money in the world". Each nation--well, each nation with an economy of any size--has its own central banking authority which regulates the currency and internal credit markets. The Federal Reserve is the United States central bank and no other. Now, it is true that the Fed has a disproportionate amount of power on the world stage but that is solely an artifact of the United States Dollar being the 800 lb gorilla of currency because the US is the 800 lb gorilla of economies. The dollar is, for now, the world's reserve currency and so whatever effects the dollar effects the world economy. But that is a very far cry from 'owning all the money in the world'.

I'm sorry for the derail but if I have learned *nothing* in 2 decades on the Internet it is this: if bad information is allowed to persist without full-bodied challenge it will continue to spread and spread. The only way to combat toxic memes is with beneficial memes--facts are one such meme.

Cheers
Aj

[Toughy]

and I thought Obama's speech made me bang my head on the desk............

[AtLast]

Fact 1: The 2009 Stimulus package was $787 Billion not $3 Trillion
Fact 2: The 2009 Stimulus package was passed by both houses of Congress
Fact 3: The President is NOT empowered to spend money. Only Congress can appropriate funds:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

Fact 4: The Federal Reserve is not empowered to spend money. The Federal Reserve is statutorily limited to the following powers:

1>Conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates.

2>Supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system, and protect the credit rights of consumers.

3>Maintaining stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets.

4>Providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation's payments system.

Fact 5: The 2009 Stimulus was passed by Congress on 15 February 2009.

Fact 6: The Federal Reserve do not own "all the money in the world". Each nation--well, each nation with an economy of any size--has its own central banking authority which regulates the currency and internal credit markets. The Federal Reserve is the United States central bank and no other. Now, it is true that the Fed has a disproportionate amount of power on the world stage but that is solely an artifact of the United States Dollar being the 800 lb gorilla of currency because the US is the 800 lb gorilla of economies. The dollar is, for now, the world's reserve currency and so whatever effects the dollar effects the world economy. But that is a very far cry from 'owning all the money in the world'.

I'm sorry for the derail but if I have learned *nothing* in 2 decades on the Internet it is this: if bad information is allowed to persist without full-bodied challenge it will continue to spread and spread. The only way to combat toxic memes is with beneficial memes--facts are one such meme.

Cheers
Aj

Thank you!

And as a non-geek science buff (just not my talent and horrible with math), I want to add that civics classes are needed with the content of constitutional and legislative jurisprudence- big time!! . Hell, just general and accurate knowledge of the separations of powers would be good. This is really basic stuff.

Frankly, I think that every 5 years, every US citizen should be tested about this to be able to continue to register to vote (US born and nationalized)! I would love for birthers and right-wing nuts and tea baggers to be first in line and compare how they do with foreign born citizens that took citizenship classes and go through this process! My Mexican born neighbor can recite all of the Amendments of the US Constitution verbatim- I can't!

Of course, this would most likely lead to racist applications….

Hummm, yet, we have a Senate Minority leader (Bohner/Boner-the-closeted birther) getting up in front of tea bag crowds mistaking the Preamble for the Constitution!! There is a hell of a role-model!

Even Wikipedia has a quick & easy guide to Separation of Powers-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers_under_the_United_States_Const itution
I'm not trying to put anyone down, I just get riled about simple laziness, especially in the age of the internet.. when we are having this conversation on the internet! Formal or higher education isn’t needed, self-education works just fine! My folks went to the 3rd & 8th grades and 3 of my Grandparents were functional illiterates (throw in some learning disabilities, too) - yet all 4 passed citizenship tests. One grandmother used to try and read road signs to help herself learn to read and just learn English (which at times was quite comical in terms of pronunciation). She would make my Mom drive her around to practice! Hell, horse-sense usually ends up being good sense!

And yes, I am a frustrated old history & civics teacher (that can’t spell) from a zillion years ago. I honestly think some people think Obama can just get in one of those underwater crafts and get down there and plug that hole!

:fastdraq:

[Passionaria]

Dr. Masaru Emoto Prayer for The Waters
Date: Monday, June 21, 2010
Time: 12:00pm - 4:30pm
Location: Global ~ A World United in Intention and Prayer
Description Prayer for the Water - Focusing our intention on love, gratitude and healing.

Dr. Emoto - author , water researcher and emissary for water and peace - has shared his powerful prayer for the Healing of the Waters of the Planet


Water is the Divine Conduit for Spirit and All Creation.


Dr. Masaru Emoto's Healing Prayer for the Gulf:

"I send the energy of love and gratitude to the water and all the living creatures in the Gulf of Mexico and its surroundings.

To the whales, dolphins, pelicans, fish, shellfish, plankton, coral, algae, and all living creatures . . .

I am sorry.
Please forgive me.
Thank you.
I love you. "

We are passing this request to people who we believe might be willing to participate in this prayer, to set an intention of love and healing to perform a miracle in the Gulf of Mexico.

Together we are powerful. Speaking this prayer multiple times daily....can Create powerful, positive change in the Gulf and on the Planet.

The power of love and gratitude is greater than any power active in the Universe today.

Please join us by repeating this Dr. Emoto's healing prayer for the Waters a few minutes of everyday.

With Great Love and Gratitude.

[Soon]

QETOxVU0SEE&feature=player_embedded

[MsDemeanor]

Great video. It's interesting how the new extreme pushes the old extreme to the center. Kinda reminds me of how, back in the day, Greenpeace was considered radial. Then someone moved the bar on 'radical' by starting a little group called Earth First....

[Rockinonahigh]

AHHHHHH I may have herd this wrong on tv but didnt bp buy 30 someodd centerfuge machines form KevinCostner???Wher the H are they>& why arent they in use if they have them???????

[MsDemeanor]

The first three arrived this past weekend, 10 more will be there soon.

linkyloo (http://www.favstocks.com/cleantech-news-bp-bp-nyse-to-proceed-with-costner-centrifuge-devices-to-cleanup-gulf-oil-spill/2018315/)

[AtLast]

The first three arrived this past weekend, 10 more will be there soon.

linkyloo (http://www.favstocks.com/cleantech-news-bp-bp-nyse-to-proceed-with-costner-centrifuge-devices-to-cleanup-gulf-oil-spill/2018315/)

Whoa, this is something!!

[Andrew, Jr.]

Now is the time of mating and birthing of some animals. I hope and pray that these machines help tremendously. :praying:

[Jet]

Kevin Costner cleanup device gets high marks from BP

Story and videos of Costner testifying on spill cleaning technology

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts2851

Yahoo News

It was treated as an oddball twist in the otherwise wrenching saga of the BP oil spill when Kevin Costner stepped forward to promote a device he said could work wonders in containing the spill's damage. But as Henry Fountain explains in the New York Times, the gadget in question — an oil-separating centrifuge — marks a major breakthrough in spill cleanup technology. And BP, after trial runs with the device, is ordering 32 more of the Costner-endorsed centrifuges to aid the Gulf cleanup.

The "Waterworld" actor has invested some $20 million and spent the past 15 years in developing the centrifuges. He helped found a manufacturing company, Ocean Therapy Solutions, to advance his brother's research in spill cleanup technology. In testimony before Congress this month, Costner walked through the device's operation—explaining how it spins oil-contaminated water at a rapid speed, so as to separate out the oil and capture it in a containment tank:"Doug Suttles was the first guy to step up in the oil industry," Costner said at the presser, "and I'm really happy to say when he ordered 32 machines, it's a signal to the world, to the industry, where we need to be."

Suttles said the additional machines will be used to build four new deep-water systems: on two barges and two 280-foot supply boats.
"We tested it in some of the toughest environments we could find, and actually what it's done — it's quite robust," Suttles said. "This is real technology with real science behind it, and it's passed all of those tests." He added that Costner's device has proved effective at processing 128,000 barrels of water a day, which "can make a real difference to our spill response efforts."

In his congressional testimony, Costner recounted his struggle to effectively market the centrifuge. He explained that although the machines are quite effective, they can still leave trace amounts of oil in the treated water that exceeds current environmental regulations. Because of that regulatory hurdle, he said, he had great difficulty getting oil industry giants interested without first having the approval of the federal government.
[Before 'Waterworld': See Kevin Costner in the '90s]

It's true, as Fountain notes in the Times, that innovation on spill technology has been hobbled in part by the reach of federal regulation — though Fountain also notes that oil companies have elected to devote comparatively little money for researching cleanup devices in the intensely competitive industry.

Costner said that after the device was patented in 1993, he sought to overcome oil-company jitters by offering to allow U.S. oil concerns to use it on a trial basis. He'd extended the same offer to the Japanese government in 1997, he said, but got no takers there either.

— Brett Michael Dykes is a national affairs writer for Yahoo! News.

[Soon]

Brian Kilmeade Provides Fox News Entertainment By Embarrassing Himself

(http://thinkprogress.org/2010/06/25/kilemead-robot-obama/)
Fox News’ Brian Kilmeade has been embarrassing himself more than usual over the last few days on Fox & Friends. Yesterday, after news broke that the cap BP placed on its leaking oil well had to be removed because one of its robots bumped the well’s venting system, Kilmeade had some harsh words for the robot. “I’d love to talk to that robot that knocked…the top off the cap that was in the bottom of the Gulf yesterday,” Kilmeade said. “What was that robot thinking?” he asked in disgust.

Then today, as Media Matters notes, the Fox co-host had had this dim-witted question for President Obama:

KILMEADE: The President took a matter of hours to pick a commander in Afghanistan so why is it taking months to plug the leaking oil?

It’s unclear how Kilmeade believes that appointing an individual to lead the war in Afghanistan is comparable in difficulty to plugging an oil gusher in the Gulf of Mexico. Even Newt Gingrich found the comparison hard to swallow. “Is it fair to draw a correlation between the two?” co-host Gretchen Carlson asked. “No. No, no. The oil spill is more like the entire Afghan campaign,” Gingrich said.

To top it all off, on the Fox and Friends set this morning, Kilmeade played a little one-on-one with last night’s NBA draft top pick John Wall. After Wall dunked on Kilmeade and blocked his shots, Carlson had to show him how it’s done. Watch a compilation:





vpeY3069Ia8&feature=player_embedded


John Stewart's Response:
(http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-june-24-2010/endless-bummers)

STEWART: The BP guys, or the robot. Kilmeade. Robots don’t think. They’re machines. They don’t cry. They don’t fall in love. They can’t be your girlfriend. They’re f***in’ robots. It’s like talking to your toaster. “This English muffin is burnt! Why toaster!? Why?!?! Why have you done this to my breakfast?” Fox and Friends, I don’t want to have to do this everyday.

:rofl:

[Jet]

Top New Orleans chef sues BP over seafood losses

NEW YORK (Reuters) – Susan Spicer, one of New Orleans' most prominent and highly regarded chefs, has sued BP Plc for damages to restaurants that have lost normal seafood supplies because of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill. More....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100627/us_nm/us_oil_spill_bayona_lawsuit

[Kast]

Dear God, I have tried to give you the warnings, America. I love my country, it pains me so to see what's happening. Look at my previous posts to understand... they will be disarming America next, you lost your Internet privledges yesterday... forced vaccines with the "mark of the beast", no exceptions - see Lindsey Willams video In DVD 8, He talks about how we are being 'marked' with 'chips' by the vaccines, that the chips are put in the needles and are 'nano' in size. That the health care bill is about total government takeover, to read the fine print.

YouTube- Lindsey Williams - The Elite Speak - DVD 1 Part 1 - Jan/Feb 2010 (To Seduce a Nation)

'that the fall of America would begin by an internal revolution started by the 'Communists'. Some of the people will start fighting against the government. The government will be busy with internal problems. Then from the oceans Russia, Cuba, Nicarauga, Central America, Mexico, and two other countries will attack and defeat America within one hour. Revelation 18, Jeremiah 50-51, other verses in the Bible will be fulfilled." ('The Elite' are behind this making the Bible versus come true.)


Supreme Court limits local gun bans

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37972148/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts

U.S. government panel now pushing "vaccinations for all!"

http://www.naturalnews.com/029081_vaccinations_public_health.html

EU666 & US666 Biodefense Stockpile

http://www.prisonplanet.com/eu666-biodefense-stockpile-and-us666-biodefense-stockpile.html

Internet kill switch plan approved

http://news.techworld.com/security/3228198/obama-internet-kill-switch-plan-approved-by-us-senate/?olo=rss

Hurry, ask questions, time is running short! America is committing suicide, that is an indirectly American funded company behind this, and posioning the waters, she must be stopped soon to preserve the world's waters. Russia is sitting in Cuba drilling oil, Cuba will not allow oil to come on her shores. Store water and food, they have a moral code to tell us what they are going to do, before they do it, it's ok to share this information.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Kam,

Is this from the thinking of the New World Order?

[Toughy]

me in this color

Dear God, I have tried to give you the warnings, America. I love my country, it pains me so to see what's happening. Look at my previous posts to understand...

they will be disarming America next,

Did you read your own link? The Supreme Court is striking down laws by local communities that ban hand guns.


you lost your Internet privledges yesterday...

Again, did you even read your own link? The article says this:
<snip> Senator Joe Lieberman and other bill sponsors have refuted the charges that the Protecting Cyberspace as a National Asset Act gives the president an Internet "kill switch." Instead, the bill puts limits on the powers the president already has to cause "the closing of any facility or stations for wire communication" in a time of war, as described in the Communications Act of 1934, <snip>


forced vaccines with the "mark of the beast", no exceptions - see Lindsey Willams video In DVD 8, He talks about how we are being 'marked' with 'chips' by the vaccines, that the chips are put in the needles and are 'nano' in size.

Can you explain how the government is going to 'forcibly' vaccinate the entire 310 million people in this country? Public health folks have been pushing vaccinations for all kids (and some adults) since Salk and Sabin discovered the polio vaccines. I'm not even gonna comment on nefarious nanos in vaccines.


That the health care bill is about total government takeover, to read the fine print.

This is utterly and stupendously ridiculous. You can read the entire health bill on line. You find the 'takeover' in the fine print (that does not exist) and show me where and how a government 'takeover' is gonna happen.


YouTube- Lindsey Williams - The Elite Speak - DVD 1 Part 1 - Jan/Feb 2010 (To Seduce a Nation) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHMtHvODtoQ)


'that the fall of America would begin by an internal revolution started by the 'Communists'.

ok this made me laugh out loud for real


Some of the people will start fighting against the government. The government will be busy with internal problems. Then from the oceans Russia, Cuba, Nicarauga, Central America, Mexico, and two other countries will attack and defeat America within one hour.

This also made me laugh loudly and snort. So the US government is not capable of multi-tasking? Geography is such a useful thing to know. Nicaragua is part of Central America. What other 2 countries? Defeat the US in an hour?????????? that would be another snort


Revelation 18, Jeremiah 50-51, other verses in the Bible will be fulfilled." ('The Elite' are behind this making the Bible versus come true.)

'The Elite'??????? Which version of the Bible are you reading and in which language? What year was it published?


Supreme Court limits local gun bans

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37972148/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts

U.S. government panel now pushing "vaccinations for all!"

http://www.naturalnews.com/029081_vaccinations_public_health.html


EU666 & US666 Biodefense Stockpile

http://www.prisonplanet.com/eu666-biodefense-stockpile-and-us666-biodefense-stockpile.html

Do folks just make this stuff up in their heads? I cannot find any reference to EU666 or US666 from a reputable source. Do you have one? And I don't mean sources from end of world/conspiracy websites.

Internet kill switch plan approved

http://news.techworld.com/security/3228198/obama-internet-kill-switch-plan-approved-by-us-senate/?olo=rss


Hurry, ask questions, time is running short! America is committing suicide, that is an indirectly American funded company behind this, and posioning the waters, she must be stopped soon to preserve the world's waters.

How short is time running? A year, 10 years, 20 years (I will be almost 80 so I won't care)? What company? Please name names. Yes water pollution (both sweet and salt) is a huge issue; as well as sweet water being a limited resource with huge potential supply problems acros the world in this century.


Russia is sitting in Cuba drilling oil, Cuba will not allow oil to come on her shores.

Russia is not drilling oil in Cuba. Cuba's oil and natural gas is owned and drilled by the state/government oil company called Cubapetroleo. Cuba imports some oil from Venezuela.


Store water and food, they have a moral code to tell us what they are going to do, before they do it, it's ok to share this information.

They who? I live about 5 miles or so from the Hayward Fault.....big time earthquake country and I have emergency supplies because of that. I also have about 3 days worth of food/water and will probably increase that to 5 days.


Aj......this nicely fits with the 'diversity of ideas' discussion that has been going on......

[Corkey]

Dear God, I have tried to give you the warnings, America. I love my country, it pains me so to see what's happening. Look at my previous posts to understand... they will be disarming America next, you lost your Internet privledges yesterday... forced vaccines with the "mark of the beast", no exceptions - see Lindsey Willams video In DVD 8, He talks about how we are being 'marked' with 'chips' by the vaccines, that the chips are put in the needles and are 'nano' in size. That the health care bill is about total government takeover, to read the fine print.

YouTube- Lindsey Williams - The Elite Speak - DVD 1 Part 1 - Jan/Feb 2010 (To Seduce a Nation) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHMtHvODtoQ)

'that the fall of America would begin by an internal revolution started by the 'Communists'. Some of the people will start fighting against the government. The government will be busy with internal problems. Then from the oceans Russia, Cuba, Nicarauga, Central America, Mexico, and two other countries will attack and defeat America within one hour. Revelation 18, Jeremiah 50-51, other verses in the Bible will be fulfilled." ('The Elite' are behind this making the Bible versus come true.)


Supreme Court limits local gun bans

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37972148/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts

U.S. government panel now pushing "vaccinations for all!"

http://www.naturalnews.com/029081_vaccinations_public_health.html

EU666 & US666 Biodefense Stockpile

http://www.prisonplanet.com/eu666-biodefense-stockpile-and-us666-biodefense-stockpile.html

Internet kill switch plan approved

http://news.techworld.com/security/3228198/obama-internet-kill-switch-plan-approved-by-us-senate/?olo=rss

Hurry, ask questions, time is running short! America is committing suicide, that is an indirectly American funded company behind this, and posioning the waters, she must be stopped soon to preserve the world's waters. Russia is sitting in Cuba drilling oil, Cuba will not allow oil to come on her shores. Store water and food, they have a moral code to tell us what they are going to do, before they do it, it's ok to share this information.


Kam, the sky is not falling and the sun will rise in the morning. You're preaching is beginning to sound rather hokey, for lack of a better word. Do you really think all this, or are you under some influence? The Maya did not say the it will be the end of the world, only the end of a cycle.

[dreadgeek]

they will be disarming America next, you lost your Internet privledges yesterday...

Oh, THAT would explain the SCOTUS decision striking down the Chicago handgun ban and expanding the right to purchase, own and carry a handgun? So, by making it easier to get a handgun Americans are going to be disarmed?


forced vaccines with the "mark of the beast", no exceptions - see Lindsey Willams video In DVD 8, He talks about how we are being 'marked' with 'chips' by the vaccines, that the chips are put in the needles and are 'nano' in size. That the health care bill is about total government takeover, to read the fine print.

Okay, I didn't really take this when you last posted it so now I'm going to since you have twice repeated the same myth. Since you are going to throw around the term "nano" because it's unfamiliar to most of the people reading this, I'll have to explain what it is you're saying and why what you are saying is not currently possible.

Nano refers to nanometer (British nanometre). It is 1 billionth of a meter. This is extremely small. How small?

Going from smallest to largest:

Single carbon nanotube--1nm
A cell membrane is 6 - 10 nm in width.
HIV virus is about 90 nm across.
The wavelength of violet light is between 380 and 435 nm.
Red light is between 625 and 749 nm
A red blood cell is 1 micron across
A human hair is 100 microns across

So what you are saying is that we are, currently, capable of building electronic chips capable of sending out some kind of EMF signal (if you can't send a signal, what's the point of the chip) that are 1000 times SMALLER than a human hair! Really? And who won the Nobel Prize in Physics for inventing this technology because if such a chip exists then that person DEFINITELY deserves a Nobel prize. Kam, the smallest chip currently possible is 2.5 nm across. It is a logic gate so it has no power source or anything to make it freestanding. You are claiming that we have built a chip that is self-powered and and is so small that you need an electron microscope to even see it! You are also claiming that these chips are being put into vaccines and that these chips are capable of sending out EMF waves. What you are claiming is NOT technologically possible using current technology. Not. Possible. In another quarter century, if everything goes right, we MIGHT be able to build a self-contained chip that is only a nanometer or so across but we cannot do so now.

What's more, any signal that is small enough to be broadcast by such a chip would be so energetic that the person with such a chip implanted would be in VERY big trouble VERY quickly. Because we are talking about wavelengths on the alpha-particle scale. Nothing in a frequency used for communications is strong enough to make it out of the human body broadcast from such a chip and anything strong enough to do so would cause such immediate tissue damage as to be obvious within minutes of being introduced to the human body. This is for reasons having to do with quantum effects that I'm not going to get into here because it's just TOO arcane and technical. Suffice to say that the major problem here is that the wavelength of the signal is larger than the transmitter of the signal by a couple of orders of magnitude. In order for this chip to do send-receive (and if it is a tracking chip it needs to be able to do bidirectional) the *inbound* waves would have to be smaller than a nanometer otherwise the object will be invisible to the wave (the object will sit in the trough of the wave). The only candidates are X-rays and gamma rays. To imagine how ludicrous Kam's suggestion is. Imagine putting two objects in a stream of running water. One is a pebble and one is a rock--large enough to take effort to lift but still liftable, if only briefly, by a single adult. The pebble is so small that the waves will pass over the rock without being disturbed unless the waves are VERY energetic (short wavelength). The calmer (longer wavelength) the wave the more invisible the pebble. The rock, on the other hand will disturb the water with both energetic and low-energy waves because it is larger. What Kam is saying is that radio waves or microwaves (which are what are typically used for communications) can be used to send-receive with these nanochips even though the nanochips are pebbles in a stream of very low-energy waves. This violates a *fundamental* principle of electromagnetism.

So what you are saying is that in vaccines there are devices, living in non-vacuum conditions, that send-receive on the X-ray or gamma wave part of the EMF spectrum and which are *undetectable* even though they are pumping out highly energetic photons that do things like cause tissue damage, etc. (The reason why we use X-rays to peer inside of your body is that they are energetic enough to get past the skin. The reason why we dont' use gamma rays for the same purpose is that gamma rays are SO energetic that they start to cause serious problems with DNA breaking immediately. Kam is saying that people are being implanted with devices that have no other option than to use rays in that energy range.)

This violates so many *different* areas of basic physics and chemistry that I don't even know how to capture them all in anything less than book length.

Folks, what Kam is suggesting vis a vis the chips in vaccines is impossible at current technology and some of what is being suggested is impossible with ANY level of technology. IMPOSSIBLE. Like violation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics impossible. Perpetual motion machine impossible. Your broken glass spontaneously reassembling itself impossible. Your flat tire spontaneously reinflating impossible. Some of what Kam is suggesting is even less possible than THAT.

[BornBronson]

I don't have much to say about this oil spill.I do know I will be paying 10 dollars a gallon at the pumps soon,we all will.But hey,life goes on.

[Toughy]

Aj

Maybe this 'mark of the beast/666/nanochip' stuff is derived from those microchips planted in dogs and cats that contain contact info and maybe some medical info melded with all that info on your drivers license.....shrug

[Toughy]

I don't have much to say about this oil spill.I do know I will be paying 10 dollars a gallon at the pumps soon,we all will.But hey,life goes on.

I wish gas would skyrocket to 10 bucks a gallon........maybe we would get a low to moderate priced, non to very little fossil fuel powered car within 5 years........

[dreadgeek]

Aj

Maybe this 'mark of the beast/666/nanochip' stuff is derived from those microchips planted in dogs and cats that contain contact info and maybe some medical info melded with all that info on your drivers license.....shrug

J suggested as much the first time this came up on the Breaking News thread. If that's the case then Kam has the not-inconsiderable task of explaining how microchip can A) be hidden in a vaccine and B) be inserted using a needle when the chip is larger than the circumference of the needle. I hate needles T, there is no way that anyone would sneak bupkis past me in a needle. I hate needles so much that if someone came up to me and said "I have this drug, if you take it you will immediately achieve Buddha consciousness, let me just stick this needle in your arm." I would respond "sorry, you lost me at needle in your arm".

I am at a complete loss at how to even begin answering this stuff--in part because there's so damn much of it ranging all over hells' half-acre.

:seeingstars:

[MsDemeanor]

I don't have much to say about this oil spill.I do know I will be paying 10 dollars a gallon at the pumps soon,we all will.But hey,life goes on.
I doubt this. If the spill were going to affect pump prices, it would have already. Funny, though, time after time the companies all raise prices because one of them has some negative event at a refinery. To me, this pretty much proves what a *cough bullshit cough* excuse that is, and gives me further reason to wonder why the only people in this entire country who don't see the lies and collusion are our elected representatives who investigate this stuff. I know exactly why, actually, it just frustrates me to no end.

I am at a complete loss at how to even begin answering this stuff--in part because there's so damn much of it ranging all over hells' half-acre.

Why bother? It's like the tons of spam email that we all get, bogus crap that belongs in the computer trash bin.

[dreadgeek]

I doubt this. If the spill were going to affect pump prices, it would have already. Funny, though, time after time the companies all raise prices because one of them has some negative event at a refinery. To me, this pretty much proves what a *cough bullshit cough* excuse that is, and gives me further reason to wonder why the only people in this entire country who don't see the lies and collusion are our elected representatives who investigate this stuff. I know exactly why, actually, it just frustrates me to no end.

Why bother? It's like the tons of spam email that we all get, bogus crap that belongs in the computer trash bin.

Because you and I both know that the minute this stuff sits there without challenge it will gain credibility of the "well, it could be true and since no one has said anything to the contrary, maybe it is true. Oh my god, the chips that are being inserted into vaccines are causing autism!" We've seen it before. You're absolutely right these rantings are a species of spam but the only filtering we can do in this venue is to counter the bad information with good information that points out just how truly laughable these ideas are.

Cheers
Aj

[MsDemeanor]

Because you and I both know that the minute this stuff sits there without challenge it will gain credibility of the "well, it could be true and since no one has said anything to the contrary, maybe it is true. Oh my god, the chips that are being inserted into vaccines are causing autism!" We've seen it before. You're absolutely right these rantings are a species of spam but the only filtering we can do in this venue is to counter the bad information with good information that points out just how truly laughable these ideas are.

Cheers
Aj
This is high on the list of reasons why I adore you so....

[Andrew, Jr.]

Is anyone here tracking Alex? I hope and pray that this oil slick is stopped sooner than later. It makes me sick to watch. I have to change the channel when it comes on. It is so upsetting to see the dead animals and oil on the beaches, and in the ocean.

[Toughy]

I am watching an interesting 2 hour documentary on History Channel (yeah yeah I know...) titled Crude. It's traces the history of oil from it's origins in the Jurassic Period until today. It's interesting.

It is a bit pro oil so far...........but it is the rich white man's History Channel.

[AtLast]

Because you and I both know that the minute this stuff sits there without challenge it will gain credibility of the "well, it could be true and since no one has said anything to the contrary, maybe it is true. Oh my god, the chips that are being inserted into vaccines are causing autism!" We've seen it before. You're absolutely right these rantings are a species of spam but the only filtering we can do in this venue is to counter the bad information with good information that points out just how truly laughable these ideas are.

Cheers
Aj

Oh, yeah! What tales will be accepted as fact? What I am continually amazed with is that we have the internet now (I'm old)- it isn't like we have to go do lit reviews at a library.... And it isn't difficult at all to click past the immediate BS citations and go to the primary lioterature...

[cinderella]

My dearest Kam. You know I love you dear. But, as I've always said, if all the things you are predicting, or think will happen (and maybe they will), we cannot stop it. Do we launch a spaceship and go to another planet? Do we stay here, in our homeground and fight it out (if we can). It sounds like Armageddon indeed, in your view - maybe it is, and maybe it isn't. We, us humans, have had many times when we thought our time was/is running out. But somehow we've survived it. Only time will tell, dearest. It does nothing for you, personally, to carry on like this. Many will scoff and laugh. Please don't expose yourself to ridicule, because that is what you are doing, my sweet. We hear your words. If we choose to harken, or not, that is our choice. You have done the best you can, don't exhaust yourself any longer.

[Toughy]

My dearest Kam. You know I love you dear. But, as I've always said, if all the things you are predicting, or think will happen (and maybe they will), we cannot stop it. Do we launch a spaceship and go to another planet? Do we stay here, in our homeground and fight it out (if we can). It sounds like Armageddon indeed, in your view - maybe it is, and maybe it isn't. We, us humans, have had many times when we thought our time was/is running out. But somehow we've survived it. Only time will tell, dearest. It does nothing for you, personally, to carry on like this. Many will scoff and laugh. Please don't expose yourself to ridicule, because that is what you are doing, my sweet. We hear your words. If we choose to harken, or not, that is our choice. You have done the best you can, don't exhaust yourself any longer.

look Carmin............nobody gets to spout of stuff that is impossible........and not get called on it.

Besides, I asked some honest questions and get no answer.....I do like to try and find out if there is grain of fact in this stuff and where folks get these ideas.

[Soon]

btbfr_oC3Zo&feature=player_embedded#!

[Corkey]

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/06/30/4589429-natives-to-bp-life-is-important

[dreadgeek]

My dearest Kam. You know I love you dear. But, as I've always said, if all the things you are predicting, or think will happen (and maybe they will), we cannot stop it. Do we launch a spaceship and go to another planet? Do we stay here, in our homeground and fight it out (if we can). It sounds like Armageddon indeed, in your view - maybe it is, and maybe it isn't. We, us humans, have had many times when we thought our time was/is running out. But somehow we've survived it. Only time will tell, dearest. It does nothing for you, personally, to carry on like this. Many will scoff and laugh. Please don't expose yourself to ridicule, because that is what you are doing, my sweet. We hear your words. If we choose to harken, or not, that is our choice. You have done the best you can, don't exhaust yourself any longer.

I'm curious--if someone was spreading false information, would you rather it continue to spread or would you prefer it be countered by facts? You're absolutely correct, the end has been predicted many, many, many, times before and every single time it has been wrong. That should tell us something. In the 19th century the Millerites thought the end was near--and it wasn't. In the early 20th century the Jehovah's Witnesses thought the end was near--and it wasn't. Throughout the 20th century this or that sect has predicted Armageddon or the return of Christ or the 'final alien invasion' and none of them have come to pass.

What I find most fascinating about this is that people will give any credence to the most wild-eyed fantasies of Armageddon or alien invasions but will scoff at real-world threats like climate change or an asteroid strike. Will there be an end to the world? Yes. Actually, there will. In about 5 billion years the Sun is going to start to die and expand out to about the orbit of Mars which, of course, will put Earth in the outer layers of the Sun. Good-bye Earth. That's 5 billion years from now, if we are still stuck on this planet without having flung our genes out to the stars we *deserve* extinction.

Before that happens, though, a big rock could hit the Earth and cause a really, really bad day for us. That happens periodically--we know that.

Chances are, folks who would accept an alien invasion would look at those scenarios as science fiction even though both of them are based in fact and one of them (the sun dying) is inevitable.

Cheers
Aj

[Toughy]

cinderella (carmin) is on a 6 week time-out so she will not be replying...........

[AtLast]

OK, I get the fear of oil rig employees in the Gulf. These are such difficult economic times. Yet, why are they not looking at the fact that 1000's are dealing with the economic ramifications there? I know it's hard to look past oneself when freaked-out, but, there is so much more in this big picture. And off-shore drilling must be investigated fully.

I find myself just internally accepting another oil rupture will happen. My soul is full of dread because I just don't see people understanding that as it stands today, we could be in peril with all of the oil rigs in the gulf as well as other areas in the US.. and the damn world!!

I absolutely do not trust what is under those rigs that have been operating with sub-standard safeguards for years now. Obviously, they have not been built or maintained safely! And this spill alone could prove to be something un-stoppable. What is wrong with people?

Shut the damn things down! No more permits for off-shore drilling! I know, naive statements. Not going to happen.


What will it take for people to get their heads out of their butts? Oh, money, that's right. How stupid of me. Now, if I honestly could believe that those who do have the scientific and technical knowledge with drilling off-shore and that the bucks were put into dealing with worst case scenarios, I might be able to see continued drilling like this. But, I just don’t see this happening. Simply do not. And what of the obvious lack of knowledge about the long term effects of what is in the Gulf right now?

Oh, that's right, it is the governments fault. And private mega-billion dollar corporations have the little people's interests at heart.... I forgot... private corporations will honestly pour $ into environmental safeguards to save themselves. Yeah, right!

What will it take to wake us up?

[SuperFemme]

HdOSTmKwyiQ

[Kast]

Greetings, Kam is an angel, trust me - 'they' are making all the prophecies come true... the Hopi, the Bible, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce... EVERYTHING that is going on... is on this site. "They"... are allowing us to share this information. This time is promised, do not be afraid:

http://lymebusters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=support&action=display&thread=14003&page=1

[dreadgeek]

Greetings, Kam is an angel, trust me - 'they' are making all the prophecies come true... the Hopi, the Bible, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce... EVERYTHING that is going on... is on this site. "They"... are allowing us to share this information. This time is promised, do not be afraid:

http://lymebusters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=support&action=display&thread=14003&page=1

Kam;

I'm curious--and I ask purely out of curiosity--are you actually going to engage with anyone here or are you just going to post links at us? If you're not, there's nothing we can do about that, but it would be nice to know if you are going to talk WITH us or just AT us using links.

So the Hopi and the Bible and Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce all prophesied the same things? Fascinating. I would never have guessed that the Hopi, with their very own cosmology would have identical prophecies to a group of pastoralists living 2000 years ago in the Levant. And who would have guessed that those two groups would have the same prophecies as a French con-artist (I mean fortune teller) and a late 19th/early 20th century flim-flam artist (sorry, I meant prophet).

You have suggested that something technologically impossible (at present) and in violation of a fundamental law of physics is happening on a daily basis. Or have you moved on from that 'prophecy' since it has been thoroughly debunked?

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

HdOSTmKwyiQ

I could only get as far as 2:45 and couldn't take anymore.

Cheers
Aj

[SuperFemme]

you may have made it farther than i did, but i came back and watched again.
it makes no sense to me to be living in fear of the end times.
or to think that i am somehow not chosen because i am not looking for the horsemen and such.

i don't get the fear mongering. i really, really, don't.

[Toughy]

I made it 4 minutes...........and my head started to explode..........

Adele where in the hell do you find this stuff? You find the most head exploding little videos on any subject....

[AtLast]

HdOSTmKwyiQ

UGH... and no, I couldn't watch the entire thing...

[MsDemeanor]

i can't even bring myself to hit "play"....

[AtLast]

i can't even bring myself to hit "play"....

Don't do it... you really don't want to!

[Toughy]

i can't even bring myself to hit "play"....

awww come on..............just do it.........your head must need a little 'boom'...............

[NJFemmie]

*boom*




....... :seeingstars:

(don't do it.... it...... hurts)

[dreadgeek]

awww come on..............just do it.........your head must need a little 'boom'...............

The crazy, it burns!!!

[SuperFemme]

please contact me via pm for photo's of me naked being doused with holy water.

have your credit card ready.

putting humpty dumpty back together again is not cheap.

praise farrah.

[AtLast]

please contact me via pm for photo's of me naked being doused with holy water.

have your credit card ready.

putting humpty dumpty back together again is not cheap.

praise farrah.

Damn, cards are tapped out!

LOL.... I have a bottle of holy water in my bathroom.... it just seemed right... Well, maybe it was about my childhood..... How I ever ended up with any kind of positive spiritual connection is beyond belief when I see things like this and remember the nuns and priests.

And for these nut-cakes to put crap out like this in the midst of such environmental horror is tooooooooooooooooo much!!! Put some energy in what we can do about it and prevent it!

UGA-DUGGGA-DOOOO!!!

[Corkey]

Dear Friend:



Thank you for writing to me about the BP oil spill. I will stand with the people of the Gulf Coast until they are made whole, and I appreciate your perspective as we continue to do everything we can to address this crisis.



The Gulf is one of the richest and most beautiful ecosystems on the planet. For centuries, its residents have enjoyed and made a living off the fish that swim in its waters and the wildlife that inhabit its shores. The Gulf is also the heartbeat of the region's economic life, and this oil spill has upended whole communities.



My Administration will continue to leverage every resource at our disposal to protect coastlines, to clean up the oil, to hold BP and other companies accountable for damages, to begin to restore the bounty and beauty of this region, and to aid the hardworking people of the Gulf as they rebuild their businesses and communities. For information about response efforts, available assistance, or how to help, please visit: www.WhiteHouse.gov/deepwater-bp-oil-spill. Individuals affected by the BP oil spill can also find resources by calling the United States Coast Guard at 1-800-280-7118, and small businesses can find support by calling 1-800-659-2955.



Thank you again for contacting me. I encourage you to visit WhiteHouse.gov to learn more about my Administration or to contact me in the future.



Sincerely,

Barack Obama

[Miss Scarlett]

Am wondering, afraid to hope, that this skimmer "A Whale" will be successful. Certainly cannot hurt to try. It's a bit annoying when someone offers a suggestion or assistance only to have the powers that be (whoever they appear to be at the moment - BP, Coast Guard...) decline, delay or whatever then turn around and tell the public they are doing everything they can....blah blah blah...

It's almost like BP is afraid someone other than BP might profit from this. I heard a joke somewhere way back when this disaster was new...the punchline of which (my paraphrase) was that BP issued an announcement that any oil washing up on beaches was the express property of BP and they would prosecute any who collected such oil...

[MsDemeanor]

Miss Scarlett, a lot of the crap BP has been pulling is to avoid fines and royalties. EPA fines are levied per barrel, so the more barrels documented, the higher the fine. Oil companies also pay the government for each barrel, so BP owes the US $ for all that oil in the water. This is why they've been using the dispersants, to break up the oil so that it can't be counted. Also why they've been underestimating the flow, refused to put cameras on the leak for the first few days, burning oil, etc. Using ships that collect the oil means that there's a count of # of barrels.

Another issue, strangely, is that there are clean water standards for water that is returned to the ocean. Now normally, this makes sense; you tell an industry that "the water must be this clean after you use it and dump it back in the ocean". In the case of oil, though, any clean is better than it was. Still, there are hoops that must be jumped and agreements that must be made before something like A Whale can be used. Mostly, though, it's just BP being supreme asshats who's priority is the $ and not the mess.

[Glenn]

Sneaky motherf*uckers! If I was king, BP would be liquidated, it's assets used to restore all the damages, and the people responsible would be publicly executed without a trial, warrent, or judge's signature. If a serial killer can get the chair, so should the folks who murder and destroy on such A MASSIVE SCALE.

[MsDemeanor]

Liquidating BP would destroy the British economy and wipe out a fair portion of the country's retirement funds, which would devastate even more lives. As for execution (which always wrong, IMO), I'm thrilled to live in a country where we have things like evidence and trials and juries and stuff. They don't always work, but thet beat the hell out of the alternatives.

[Glenn]

Legal proceedings? You might see a few of the big ol boys go under internal investigations, get a slap on the wrist, or maybe even a couple of months in jail. BP has to be laughing at all this. Any justice we get will be served by us the taxpayers, through higher pump prices, etc. .

[Glenn]

In the last few days there have been credible reports from Houston, New Orleans, Florida, Tennesee, Ohio, and South Carolina of an oily substance coming down in the air and in the rain. Crops are dying. It's not just in the Gulf water anymore. This chemical rain is not from Corexit in the waters of the gulf. It is coming from the aerial spraying by thr Air Force of Corexit and other dispersants. Also see Dr. Riki Ott on Utube.