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Originally Posted by Gemme
Any time someone who is not a politician or person of influence says that, they bring the men with the white jackets.  |
I think about this so much. How thin the line is...if there is one at all...between being a religious zealot and being incredibly mentally ill.
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Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow
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OMG. People are crazy.
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Originally Posted by Jess
What's really interesting to me, is that in the movies... any foreign country official always asks "ve vant to see your PaPers". Is it just here that we aren't supposed to ask?
Perhaps because so many European countries "touch" each other, they are more interested in seeing who is crossing their borders. Perhaps, because we are so, oh, I dunno, separate, we are just supposed to allow anyone in at any time.
If the bottom line is, have your papers in hand when they ask for them then go on your merry way, then what is really the problem?
Now.. I will say I am playing Devils Advocate with this, as it seems to be a simple solution and good as hell reason to sue for racial profiling. IF you have proper documentation and get pulled over because "you are brown".. SUE THE FUCK OUT OF THEM. If by chance, you don't, then damn, maybe you should have paid attention to all this shit. IF you are here and are going through the process, then you will have some proof of that. IF you are here ILLEGALLY and don't have proof you are going through the process, then hmmm.. go home and start over.It's really that simple.
Fully expecting bullshit to fall out of this post. Because it is way too simple. Way too easy to see it for what it is. I say, beat them at their game. It's easy. Have your papers ready to shove ever so politely in their face, whichever state of citizenship you fall into.
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I get what you are saying, but those movies were about Nazi Germany, the DDR and the USSR. Fascist countries. I don't want us to be that.
For me, I want the United States of America to welcome immigrants however they get here. No one would leave their home to risk death to get here if they did not really want and need a new life. The only people who have the right to complain in my book are the actual Native Americans.
When I was a kid in Argentina, I was a total space cadet and forgot my papers a lot. My parents were a wreck. It was a huge deal. Kids are often the ones targeted. What if Christie's son were in that situation and forgot his papers and got carted off to some camp and you could not find him. Can you imagine? This is what happens to people.
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Originally Posted by Jess
I used the "in the movies" statement to stress a point. Most other countries do ask for some sort of ID. Most folks who travel to the UK for example, go through customs. They show their ID/ reason for being there and move on. Folks aren't crawling in through tunnels. Does that make any sense at all?
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To get to the UK by tunnel you would need truly heavy equipment
Yes, there is immigration, but you don't get asked for papers on the street. Different issue.
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Originally Posted by Jess
I see your point. I will also add that not every single illegal immigrant is here to send money back to their poor family. My entire argument is for those who aren't.
Anyone who approaches the US Embassy with a valid case to be a refugee is granted immunity. It's just what we do.
I think we ( in general) wish to think the best of anyone coming here for a "new beginning/ second chance". It is not always the case. Read: 9/11
Some of those guys somehow got valid pilots licenses. How does that shit happen? How do we document folks we slide through?
Not being in a border state struggling with such intimate issues, it is hard for me to be very compassionate. I try, but I also try to be compassionate for the folks who died at the hands of terrorists who were able to take charge of our planes. Ya know? It's a very precarious place to be in judging which is more humane. Asking for papers.. or assuming the good.
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I have a friend who was here in the US as a refugee from Brazil for being persecuted for being Gay.
Fred Phelps and his gang went to count so that people who were here in the US under the same refugee status as this young artist would all be deported. He is in hiding now, I have no idea how to see him. I can only imagine how scared he is.
The US is actually very picky about who they give asylum to.
The people who bombed the towers came here legally and stayed longer, they did not come over a border illegally.
If this is about keeping us safe, why are we only worried about immigrants with darker skin? Why not Canadians, the Irish.....
Think about how bad things would have to be for you to leave your home, and walk with your family with only the things you can carry for thousands of miles, across international borders, mountains, deserts and rivers to get somewhere you can be safe and be a part of the great "American" dream and you find out the US is changing into a Fascist Police State...and that there will never be that dream for you. There will never be a fresh new start. Why? Because your skin is darker.
Will you really think about it? I am so not bashing you or arguing for the sake or argument. You seem compassionate about so many things, can you really say you feel none here?