It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[Diva]

Two years ago, I was pulled over for speeding. (After 25+ years of not having gotten a ticket, it was upsetting, to say the least.)

But the thing more upsetting than that? I had my BF in the car with me ~ a Latino transguy ~ who froze. Was He legal? Yeah. But His fear ~ putting His hands on His thighs (in plain sight of the officer so ~ I found out later ~ it wouldn't be assumed He had a weapon in His possession...........WTF?!?!) and kept His eyes straight ahead so as not to make contact with the officer. He didn't want any kind of confrontation as to why a Latino guy was in the car with a white woman. (Call me naive, but it never occurred to ME that there could BE a problem with something like that!)

Just writing this, I have a knot in my stomach remembering His reaction to MY getting stopped.......and I'm as white as they come (Scot/Irish), but it brought to me a new appreciation (and awareness) for what my Latino brothers and sisters feel about this AZ situation.

And the whole thing smacks of "Good ol' Republican white boy" mentality. It makes me sick.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Diva

Two years ago, I was pulled over for speeding. (After 25+ years of not having gotten a ticket, it was upsetting, to say the least.)

But the thing more upsetting than that? I had my BF in the car with me ~ a Latino transguy ~ who froze. Was He legal? Yeah. But His fear ~ putting His hands on His thighs (in plain sight of the officer so ~ I found out later ~ it wouldn't be assumed He had a weapon in His possession...........WTF?!?!) and kept His eyes straight ahead so as not to make contact with the officer. He didn't want any kind of confrontation as to why a Latino guy was in the car with a white woman. (Call me naive, but it never occurred to ME that there could BE a problem with something like that!)

Just writing this, I have a knot in my stomach remembering His reaction to MY getting stopped.......and I'm as white as they come (Scot/Irish), but it brought to me a new appreciation (and awareness) for what my Latino brothers and sisters feel about this AZ situation.

And the whole thing smacks of "Good ol' Republican white boy" mentality. It makes me sick.

Here, another example.

Think, what if it were me. What if I had to be afraid 100% of the time that I might get picked up and taken to jail or worse for my skin color.

What about if you had kids who always forget their stuff....what happens the day they forget their "papers"?

Do White Republican Children have to carry their "papers" around?

What if it were you? Your kid, your Mom, your boyfriend...YOU.

What if you ran to the corner store to get an ice cream and forgot your papers?

I have lived like this, in Argentina. When I was a kid during the Peron years and then military goverment when people dissapeared right and left, I had to carry my "papers" all the time.

Pretty creepy actually.

[little man]

Originally Posted by Toughy

There is no sane reason to send US or UN troops to Mexico.....to even suggest that speaks to hegemony, American Exceptionalism, white privilege, blah blah blah...just because we have a history of intervening, with military force, in other countries business is not an excuse for anything....Last I heard...........Mexico is not requesting military intervention from anyone.........

Stop. The. War. On. Drugs. Stop it NOW. Legalize all those drugs.......pot, white powder, brown/black powder/sticky stuff.....legalize all drugs........stop the CIA from secretly financing all those black ops by way of the drug trade of mostly opium and heroin..........no sane US citizen buys mexican dirt weed....we grow much better pot here....laughin....

As I said before........talking about the illegal drug trade and the violence around it, is THE red herring of immigration reform. Those things are not connected at all......

i'e always kind of enjoyed dirt weed. hard to find, though.

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by DeanRobert;94302.

[B

apretty:[/B] You asked me to walk you through this thought process. I am not speaking of oppression here. I agree that oppression exists to this very day.
You are very loudly voicing your opinions here and have made it very clear that you are of Hispanic descent.

Awesome, by playing 'guess my girlfriend's race' you made her day. Thank you!

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by DeanRobert

UofMfan, I was simply addressing and answering the questions that Apretty had asked me and in return asked her where were the vioces and protests when the orgininal statutes went into law several years ago. SB1070 is simply adding to these already existing laws. It was not met for all of you to answer a second time. {shaking my head} Keeping in mind none of you answerd that question.

I have heard a lot of horror stories over the years. I do not doubt that they happened or do still happen to this day It seems to me that since I am simply trying to voice my opinion here.
If I were to start a thread for those whom are in favor of this bill, you all would be posting your opinions there too. There are two sides to every thing that happens and I had not seen anyone trying to voice the other side.

I will state this again, as many of you just arn't comprehending what I had said. I believe this bill will lead to racial profiling.!

apretty: You asked me to walk you through this thought process. I am not speaking of oppression here. I agree that oppression exists to this very day.
You are very loudly voicing your opinions here and have made it very clear that you are of Hispanic descent. You brought into this the term “brown skinned people” not me. I am simply asking you, where were you or the Hispanic population voices and protests when the original parts of this bill were signed into law several years ago.
Maybe if there had been the protests and loud voices then we would not be here today as the state divided that we are.

I was born in Flagstaff and raised here. So for a little more than 40 years this has been my home. I have seen many changes in the valley and the state. Some for the good and some for the bad.
I sit here willing to listening to both sides of this debate I have not made a decision as to exactly which side I will take, and am trying to keep an open mind.

I was put on notice by several of my friends that come into this site and others that if I posted my thoughts and feelingshere I would be attacked and that is just what has happened.

To those of you that will participate in the boycotts think about this:

Don't buy that new car you want, why??? All of the airbags in that new car are manufactured right here in Arizona.

If you are in law enforcement or carry a tazer, don't use it, its manufactured right here in Arizona.

Thinking of buying a new computer, make sure it doesn't have an INTEL processor, yes they to are manufactured here.

OK so I am really trying here. But the underlined part of your post doesn't make any sense to me.

First you said it wasn't met (sic) for us, then you said none of us answered it. Forgive me if I come across as being stupid, I assure you I am not, but I am having problem with your logic there.

Also, as a side note, it seems to me that you want to engage only with apretty, at least this is my observation.

The bold part of your post seems to imply that we, the collective us on this thread, must be a bunch of morons because we and I quote, "just arn't (sic) comprehending what I had said". Truth is I got that loud and clear, along with all the other points you have made.

The red part of your post almost made me flinch, thank God for the ability to walk away and take a breath.

So what if apretty is? To my knowledge she isn't, but what do I know? And if she is, what exactly are you trying to infer with your comment? I really would like to know before I move forward with that piece of your post. I mean REALLY would like to know. Then you go on and ask the same question that I addressed. Clearly you are only interested in eliciting a response from apretty. If that is the case, why not take it elsewhere?

The yellow part of your post doesn't ring true to me. I may be wrong.

The blue part. Really? Are you kidding me? And here I thought we were engaging in a heated conversation. It looks from my side that you are the one who came in here with some sort of agenda. Again, my observation.

And as far as your advice to those who will participate on the boycott, I have to say this:

I have a laptop with a AMD processor, in addition, my nephew who works for Intel says they are manufactured in several places, so what is your point?

As for Tazers, they should be banned, so yay, let's boycott them anyway.

And excuse me for pointing this out, but airbags, like the Intel chip, are also manufactured elsewhere.

I say that if you are truly interested in debate, then come back and engage with us. But if your intentions are to elicit some sort of knee jerk response from apretty, and now some of us, then I say why bother.

[The_Lady_Snow]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Artist...1948532?v=wall

[Soon]

Arizona Legalizes Racial Profiling


Submitted by Sean Price on April 23, 2010

Hundreds of high school and college students gathered around the state capitol in Phoenix, Arizona, on Friday. They were there to convince Gov. Jan Brewer to veto Senate Bill 1070. These young protesters were disappointed though. Brewer signed the bill and instantly set back relations between whites and Latinos in Arizona and other parts of the country.

The law is designed to identify, prosecute and deport illegal immigrants. As outlined by The New York Times:

The police would be authorized to arrest immigrants unable to show documents allowing them to be in the country and the legislation would leave drivers open to sanctions … for knowingly transporting an illegal immigrant, even a relative. It expressly forbids cities from adopting “sanctuary” policies that restrict the police and public workers from immigration enforcement….

In other words, Arizona cops now have a green light for racial profiling—unless anyone seriously thinks that an Irish national with blonde hair and blue eyes who is in Arizona illegally will receive the same scrutiny as an Arizona-born American with darker features.

It was no accident that so many high school students protested the new law. They will be directly affected. Young people are often the chief targets of racial profiling. And this law will almost surely split up families. In many cases, young people who are U.S. citizens have one or both parents who are undocumented workers. These families already cope with enormous economic pressure. The Arizona law will almost surely ratchet up their misery. But since undocumented workers are often driven here by far greater dangers and economic pressures, the law is unlikely to do anything to slow down the flow of illegal immigration.

Opponents are lining up to attack the new law on constitutional grounds. But even if the challenges succeed, the poison has already been introduced to the state’s racial climate. Gov. Brewer argued that new methods of police training would keep police officers from abusing the law. “I will not tolerate racial discrimination or racial profiling in Arizona,” she declared. If that’s the case, she shouldn’t have signed a law that guarantees it will happen.

By the way, educators who’d like to discuss racial profiling in the classroom can use this Teaching Tolerance lesson, which defines it and explains why the subject is so important.

-------------
P.S. Interesting range of post-article comments.

[Apocalipstic]

This is so sad.

and she says God told her to do these things.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

This is so sad.

and she says God told her to do these things.

I can't imagine ANYONE's entity being about hate....

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

This is so sad.

and she says God told her to do these things.

Any time someone who is not a politician or person of influence says that, they bring the men with the white jackets.

[Soon]

Iowa candidate: Implant microchips into immigrants in country illegally

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Iowa candidate: Implant microchips into immigrants in country illegally

I can't even get my head around that. Interestingly enough the first thought that came to mind is, how are you going to round them up to achieve this atrocity?

Then I thought of Nazy Germany, and last I thought of V, the series, only because I watched it last night

I mean, really?

[Jess]

What's really interesting to me, is that in the movies... any foreign country official always asks "ve vant to see your PaPers". Is it just here that we aren't supposed to ask?
Perhaps because so many European countries "touch" each other, they are more interested in seeing who is crossing their borders. Perhaps, because we are so, oh, I dunno, separate, we are just supposed to allow anyone in at any time.

If the bottom line is, have your papers in hand when they ask for them then go on your merry way, then what is really the problem?

Now.. I will say I am playing Devils Advocate with this, as it seems to be a simple solution and good as hell reason to sue for racial profiling. IF you have proper documentation and get pulled over because "you are brown".. SUE THE FUCK OUT OF THEM. If by chance, you don't, then damn, maybe you should have paid attention to all this shit. IF you are here and are going through the process, then you will have some proof of that. IF you are here ILLEGALLY and don't have proof you are going through the process, then hmmm.. go home and start over.It's really that simple.

Fully expecting bullshit to fall out of this post. Because it is way too simple. Way too easy to see it for what it is. I say, beat them at their game. It's easy. Have your papers ready to shove ever so politely in their face, whichever state of citizenship you fall into.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Jess

What's really interesting to me, is that in the movies... any foreign country official always asks "ve vant to see your PaPers". Is it just here that we aren't supposed to ask?
Perhaps because so many European countries "touch" each other, they are more interested in seeing who is crossing their borders. Perhaps, because we are so, oh, I dunno, separate, we are just supposed to allow anyone in at any time.

If the bottom line is, have your papers in hand when they ask for them then go on your merry way, then what is really the problem?

Now.. I will say I am playing Devils Advocate with this, as it seems to be a simple solution and good as hell reason to sue for racial profiling. IF you have proper documentation and get pulled over because "you are brown".. SUE THE FUCK OUT OF THEM. If by chance, you don't, then damn, maybe you should have paid attention to all this shit. IF you are here and are going through the process, then you will have some proof of that. IF you are here ILLEGALLY and don't have proof you are going through the process, then hmmm.. go home and start over.It's really that simple.

Fully expecting bullshit to fall out of this post. Because it is way too simple. Way too easy to see it for what it is. I say, beat them at their game. It's easy. Have your papers ready to shove ever so politely in their face, whichever state of citizenship you fall into.

It happens in the movies and communist countries. It happened a lot in Nazi Germany, if I remember my history correctly.

A free country, or at least one that prides itself in being one, does not asks for such papers.

This is not bullshit, this is my opinion.

[Soon]

Pima County Sheriff Calls Arizona Law "Stupid," Will Not Enforce It (VIDEO)

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, who I am assuming is something of a master of the "complex and demanding craft of policing" seeing as how he's been a policeman for over five decades, begs to differ. Per Amanda Terkel, Dupnik called the law "racist" and "disgusting" and "stupid" and, in his "nuanced judgment" could not be enforced without mandatory racial profiling. Dupnik's reckoning of the legal issue is that he's just as likely to be sued for racial profiling as he is for not doing enough racial profiling, so he's standing pat, and will not enforce the new law.

[WATCH]

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Jess

What's really interesting to me, is that in the movies... any foreign country official always asks "ve vant to see your PaPers". Is it just here that we aren't supposed to ask?
Perhaps because so many European countries "touch" each other, they are more interested in seeing who is crossing their borders. Perhaps, because we are so, oh, I dunno, separate, we are just supposed to allow anyone in at any time.

If the bottom line is, have your papers in hand when they ask for them then go on your merry way, then what is really the problem?

Now.. I will say I am playing Devils Advocate with this, as it seems to be a simple solution and good as hell reason to sue for racial profiling. IF you have proper documentation and get pulled over because "you are brown".. SUE THE FUCK OUT OF THEM. If by chance, you don't, then damn, maybe you should have paid attention to all this shit. IF you are here and are going through the process, then you will have some proof of that. IF you are here ILLEGALLY and don't have proof you are going through the process, then hmmm.. go home and start over.It's really that simple.

Fully expecting bullshit to fall out of this post. Because it is way too simple. Way too easy to see it for what it is. I say, beat them at their game. It's easy. Have your papers ready to shove ever so politely in their face, whichever state of citizenship you fall into.

I see your reasoning. I'll try to keep things simple also. Those who are in this country are still paying taxes, etc. So, really, it's no skin off my teeth if they are here legally or not.

However, if someone has come here illegally and is trying to save money to send back home so that the rest of the family can come over here, legally, then it's not just a simple case of 'send 'em back'. Very often, they've nearly died getting here to take advantage of what so many take for granted. I could not, with my twisted sense of morality, do that to someone. Humans have a right to live and, if one illegal person is sent back, it affects not only them but their whole family...not to mention they'll probably get their ass kicked in the process of being 'sent back' (like defective merchandise, no?) or even killed. I'm not down with that.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

It happens in the movies and communist countries. It happened a lot in Nazi Germany, if I remember my history correctly.

A free country, or at least one that prides itself in being one, does not asks for such papers.

This is not bullshit, this is my opinion.

I used the "in the movies" statement to stress a point. Most other countries do ask for some sort of ID. Most folks who travel to the UK for example, go through customs. They show their ID/ reason for being there and move on. Folks aren't crawling in through tunnels. Does that make any sense at all?

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Jess

I used the "in the movies" statement to stress a point. Most other countries do ask for some sort of ID. Most folks who travel to the UK for example, go through customs. They show their ID/ reason for being there and move on. Folks aren't crawling in through tunnels. Does that make any sense at all?

If you travel to another country you have to go through immigration, and yes, it makes sense in that setting. When you go through customs you have to show them your luggage. But how can you equate that to being asked for papers just because you look "illegal" at any time, anywhere?

I am not following your train of thought.

No, most other countries don't ask you for some ID just because they can while you are say, walking, driving, having a cup of coffee, or enjoying the sights at the Eiffel Tower. No, they don't.

The setting you speak of is completely different than what the Arizona law now allows. Do you follow me?

[Jess]

Originally Posted by Gemme

I see your reasoning. I'll try to keep things simple also. Those who are in this country are still paying taxes, etc. So, really, it's no skin off my teeth if they are here legally or not.

However, if someone has come here illegally and is trying to save money to send back home so that the rest of the family can come over here, legally, then it's not just a simple case of 'send 'em back'. Very often, they've nearly died getting here to take advantage of what so many take for granted. I could not, with my twisted sense of morality, do that to someone. Humans have a right to live and, if one illegal person is sent back, it affects not only them but their whole family...not to mention they'll probably get their ass kicked in the process of being 'sent back' (like defective merchandise, no?) or even killed. I'm not down with that.

I see your point. I will also add that not every single illegal immigrant is here to send money back to their poor family. My entire argument is for those who aren't.

Anyone who approaches the US Embassy with a valid case to be a refugee is granted immunity. It's just what we do.

I think we ( in general) wish to think the best of anyone coming here for a "new beginning/ second chance". It is not always the case. Read: 9/11

Some of those guys somehow got valid pilots licenses. How does that shit happen? How do we document folks we slide through?

Not being in a border state struggling with such intimate issues, it is hard for me to be very compassionate. I try, but I also try to be compassionate for the folks who died at the hands of terrorists who were able to take charge of our planes. Ya know? It's a very precarious place to be in judging which is more humane. Asking for papers.. or assuming the good.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

If you travel to another country you have to go through immigration, and yes, it makes sense in that setting. When you go through customs you have to show them your luggage. But how can you equate that to being asked for papers just because you look "illegal" at any time, anywhere?

I am not following your train of thought.
My train of thought is that in most other countries.. tunnels aren't dug for folks to burrow under. They DO go through customs.

No, most other countries don't ask you for some ID just because they can while you are say, walking, driving, having a cup of coffee, or enjoying the sights at the Eiffel Tower. No, they don't.


Because most have seen them when you walk through customs.


The setting you speak of is completely different than what the Arizona law now allows. Do you follow me?

Yes, i do follow. Do you follow me?