Male ID butch vs. FTM??

[Lee]

Ive never seen Male Id butch before this website. I think i get the concept, ive read short explanations on a lot of other posts but I was wondering if someone would mind breaking down the difference between a Male ID Butch person and a FtM trans person?

Thanks
Lee

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Lee

Ive never seen Male Id butch before this website. I think i get the concept, ive read short explanations on a lot of other posts but I was wondering if someone would mind breaking down the difference between a Male ID Butch person and a FtM trans person?

Thanks
Lee

Since I am, I'll give it a go. Male ID, it all depends on whether they are TG and what they want to call themselves. Now then as for me, I am not going to take T or have surgeries, therefore I retain Male Butch. Simple really, anyone can be any ID they choose.

[Leigh]

For Me personally, as an FTM, I not only identify as male but also plan on taking T (testosterone) as well as having top surgery (but not bottom). Male ID'd butch, to Me, is pretty much how Corkey explained it ~ while he is not going to take hormones or have any surgeries, he still identifies as male ........ hope I got that right anyways

[Ebon]

I don't want to take T but I do want to have top surgery. As far as male IDbutch goes, I guess my behavior and energy fits into what the world's social construct calls male and I myself feel more male. I love this website, it's nice to find men and women with the same mindset. Cheers!

[Converse]

For me, being male identified is more about not finding any recognition or connection within myself of anything that is normally perceived as female. When female pro-nouns are used it feels foreign, and has for as long as I can remember. But I also don’t wish to become a man. As a child I always wanted to be a boy, but not any boy that I ever knew- I actually recall one afternoon when I had been playing soccer and walking home thinking boys are really stupid I’m glad I’m not one, and then going with my mother to visit a friend who had a little girl my age- and feeling like she was speaking another language as I tried to make sense of the fact that this person actually enjoyed being in a room surrounded by sparkly things. I guess those feelings never really changed-

I was very young when my mother told me to keep away from “those freaks” that lived upstairs, and yet being in the same space as those “freaks” was all I wanted to do. Perhaps I am who I am because of the Butch-Femme couple that lived above us, lol. who knows? but for me, remaining female bodied and masculine presenting, is what feels the most natural- Butch for me becomes a gender, I don’t need to transition to another one. I use bastardized male pronouns because it is just a small attempt to ask that you try to see me not as male or female, but as Butch.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by Lee

Ive never seen Male Id butch before this website. I think i get the concept, ive read short explanations on a lot of other posts but I was wondering if someone would mind breaking down the difference between a Male ID Butch person and a FtM trans person?

Thanks
Lee

A male identified butch presents themselves as male. An FTM is male.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Liam

A male identified butch presents themselves as male. An FTM is male.

I am confused by this statement. If someone tells me they are male, I consider them male and it doesn't have anything to do with them having surgery or taking T.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I am confused by this statement. If someone tells me they are male, I consider them male and it doesn't have anything to do with them having surgery or taking T.

You bring up a very important point, Bulldog—not all FTMs have surgery and/or take testosterone.

[Glenn]

Originally Posted by Liam

A male identified butch presents themselves as male. An FTM is male.

No. I had a beautifully perfect female body that represented ITSELF as female. Inside, since the get go, I participated in male activities, and sexually, I ID as male. All my life I've wanted to transition, yet, I did'nt want to mess up my female body in any way.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

No. I had a beautifully perfect female body that represented ITSELF as female. Inside, since the get go, I participated in male activities, and sexually, I ID as male. All my life I've wanted to transition, yet, I did'nt want to mess up my female body in any way.

I have a few questions for you popcorninthesofa:

What do you mean when you say your female body represented itself as female?
What are male activities?
How are you using the word, "sexually," and what does it mean to sexually identify as male?

Thanks.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Liam

A male identified butch presents themselves as male. An FTM is male.

I disagree. I identify as a male id'd stone butch and as far as I am concerned I am male. Since I was a small child I couldn't think of myself as anything but. I am not just masculine, not just male presenting, but male. Part of the reason I identify as a male id'd stone instead of FtM is that FtM or trans anything has always, to me, implied going from female to male. Some have expressed that male id'd butches just don't want to get top surgery, go on T etc., but I don't think that's what defines a male id'd butch. For me when I do get top surgery, f.ex., I don't feel that I'll be taking a greater step toward transitioning to male because I already perceive myself as male. I've always been there mentally (not saying transguys haven't either, just trying to explain how my own mind processes my own characteristics), and I've spent the better part of my life sculpting my body physically to try to match where I am mentally as best I can.

So then why do I still insist on the stone butch part? Honestly, it's what I've comfortably grown into, was an important part of how I began to better understand myself and I don't see it as detracting from my "maleness" (or whatever you want to call it) in the least. It's perhaps more a descriptor of my own boundaries, and yet those boundaries, for lack of a better word, exist for me because I am male; yet a male who's physical body does not entirely match his mind.

Considering the differences of opinion here, I think what defines a male id'd butch varies from individual to individual. For me it's no different than simply being male.

[Lee]

Thank you all for your great responses. I think Im learning a lot here. Basically Male ID Butch is another gender label, and as we all know each person defines their own gender label in a very personal and individual way? Right?

So heres what ive heard (read?) :

Male ID Butches are generally men or male ID folks who choose not to alter their bodies with T or surgery but some Male ID Butches still see their physical body as female.
FtM Trans folks are men who did not start out with a male body and may or may not use T or surgery to change their body.

So do any Male ID Butches take T and have surgery, or does the T and surgery mean that you are FtM (I know that you dont HAVE to have T and surgery to be FtM, but im wondering if it works the other way around...everyone who takes T and has surgery is an FtM, rather than other labels like Male ID Butch)??

Forgive my ignorance on the subject...

Thanks
Lee

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Lee

Thank you all for your great responses. I think Im learning a lot here. Basically Male ID Butch is another gender label, and as we all know each person defines their own gender label in a very personal and individual way? Right?

So heres what ive heard (read?) :

Male ID Butches are generally men or male ID folks who choose not to alter their bodies with T or surgery but some Male ID Butches still see their physical body as female.
FtM Trans folks are men who did not start out with a male body and may or may not use T or surgery to change their body.

So do any Male ID Butches take T and have surgery, or does the T and surgery mean that you are FtM (I know that you dont HAVE to have T and surgery to be FtM, but im wondering if it works the other way around...everyone who takes T and has surgery is an FtM, rather than other labels like Male ID Butch)??

Forgive my ignorance on the subject...

Thanks
Lee

It is all purely subjective, from the person who wishes to ID themselves. There are no set rules or ways of gender expression. A FTM may or may not take T and FTM may or may not have surgery. It is up to that individual to make that distinction. A Male ID'd person may or may not take T a Male ID'd person may or may not have surgery, again it is all subjective and expressed individually.

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by Lee

Thank you all for your great responses. I think Im learning a lot here. Basically Male ID Butch is another gender label, and as we all know each person defines their own gender label in a very personal and individual way? Right?

So heres what ive heard (read?) :

Male ID Butches are generally men or male ID folks who choose not to alter their bodies with T or surgery but some Male ID Butches still see their physical body as female.
FtM Trans folks are men who did not start out with a male body and may or may not use T or surgery to change their body.

So do any Male ID Butches take T and have surgery, or does the T and surgery mean that you are FtM (I know that you dont HAVE to have T and surgery to be FtM, but im wondering if it works the other way around...everyone who takes T and has surgery is an FtM, rather than other labels like Male ID Butch)??

Forgive my ignorance on the subject...

Thanks
Lee

Lee, again, welcome to the site. The questions you are asking have been discussed many times here and on the other site. Please do not think I am saying your questions are redundant, they are not. I like the straight forward way you ask the question.

I cannot give you a big long answer that includes the "whys" right now because I am due at a meeting.

I am a masculine identified butch/ Transmasculine Butch and I have had surgery and I have been taking T for two years. I also use the label Transman at times.

Gotta go.

[Greyson]

Back. Lee there is no right way or wrong way to label your gender identity. That is entirely your decision. Many of us here came to our own personal gender identity through somewhat of an evolutionary process.

Let me step back and speak from the "I" perspective. For most of my adult life, I consciously identified as a Butch. In my thinking that put me in a sort of 3rd gender realm.

Now, for the past 20 years give or take a few years, it has become very possible for female bodied people to "transition."

For me, this "transition" is taking years and my transition is not restricted to hormones and surgeries. There is also the psychological, spiritual, and legal aspect to all of this, for me.

I identify as a "Transmasculine" Butch in part because I do not believe masculinity must be, can only be expressed as a male. "Masculinity" is present in both sexes and and all along the gender spectrum.

Legally, I am now a male but in many ways I am still working on what that looks like for me. For me I do not believe I am the same as a cisgendered man. Not all of the Butches, FTMs, bois believe the same as I do. And that is okay.

Finally, I have seen a few of us here change our ideas, and opinions about "gender" as we continue to discuss things here and live our lives in the world.

Good luck to you.

[chefhottie25]

Originally Posted by Lee

Ive never seen Male Id butch before this website. I think i get the concept, ive read short explanations on a lot of other posts but I was wondering if someone would mind breaking down the difference between a Male ID Butch person and a FtM trans person?

Thanks
Lee

I am not sure that I am qualifyed to explain this. I identify as a boi. I don't necessarly identify as a male id butch. I am not in transition. I feel like there is a third sex for bois like me. It doesn't seem to require if you male identify or not. I was wondering if anyone else feels this way?

[Lee]

Originally Posted by chefhottie25

I am not sure that I am qualifyed to explain this. I identify as a boi. I don't necessarly identify as a male id butch. I am not in transition. I feel like there is a third sex for bois like me. It doesn't seem to require if you male identify or not. I was wondering if anyone else feels this way?

I think I feel a lot like you do, I do not Id as a boi, but then I try to avoid gender labels/ids where ever possible. I dont feel like the body I was born with reflects my gender, but I dont feel like transitioning from one gender to the other is what fits me either. I very much feel in the middle, I like the middle. I ID with Trans people because thats where ive found acceptance of my gender stuff, not because my end goal is to "switch genders".

The way I explained my desire to change my physical appearance ... hair cut, binding, clothing choices etc.. to my (very supportive) partner was this:
"Its not about trying to be something Im not, its just that I have to put a LOT of thought into my gender, other people should at least have to do a double take before they make an assumption."

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Lee

Ive never seen Male Id butch before this website. I think i get the concept, ive read short explanations on a lot of other posts but I was wondering if someone would mind breaking down the difference between a Male ID Butch person and a FtM trans person?

Thanks
Lee

This, really, is an unanswerable question. Really, truly, it is near impossible to define an ID since IDs are so SO super-personal and if you took 50 people who considered themselves "Male ID Butch" they would have 50 different definitions of what that means to them and 50 different ways of presenting their gender.

[MysticOceansFL]

I have always ID'd as a Male Butch and thought about having the post op done but never did so alot had to do with being happy with who I am and physically even though I have a female body I am just as Much a Butch as a FTM is just because I use a strap on doesnt make me any less butch just means I can have many ajustables ones for sizes to pls my partner.

I'm not a chew tobbacco type of butch either I'm old school old fashioned and I believe that femme's are not a door mat rug they should be treated like the classy ladies that they are.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Lee

Ive never seen Male Id butch before this website. I think i get the concept, ive read short explanations on a lot of other posts but I was wondering if someone would mind breaking down the difference between a Male ID Butch person and a FtM trans person?

Thanks
Lee

i don't know if you will be able to get a group think on the break down you are asking for.

we are at a unique place in history right now, where the gender spectrum becoming visible to the world at large is vastly greater than the language available to describe it. the only thing consistent in this is change.

i really truly think that the best way to sift through it all is to rely on an individuals self identity rather than trying to cram people into the same old tired two available boxes.