The Femme Continuum: The "Highs" and "Lows" of Visibility

[Emmy]

This is a great discussion. I'm relatively newly out- about 3 years- so perhaps my perspective just stems from inexperience. I can honestly say, though, that I've never personally been made to feel inferior, or "not femme enough" by another femme, not once. The femmes I've met have been unfailingly gracious, welcoming me to the club

Online, I suppose I have seen a fair amount 'ewwww'-ing going on about any sort of sexual interest, on the part of either butches or femmes, that doesn't quite adhere to gender stereotypes. Perhaps, though, this is improving over time? I'm not certain of it, but I get the sense that maybe this was a bit more common a few years ago than it is today, thank goodness- probably thanks to folks' speaking up about it in threads like this.

[Beau]

I'm here to show support for all femmes of all flavors.

Yeah, cunnilingus got my attention.

But then, so does cock sucking.

Equal opportunity orgasms for all are wonderful. Stating that any sexual act is the province of gender is just "fucking" ridiculous.

[TenderKnight]

Hello!

Great thread (and yes, I actually did thread stalk someone here.. and found myself actually LEARNING something!). I just want to put in my experience, not as a femme, but as a transguy who knows and has loved many femmes, both as friends and as lovers..

I will admit that I still have a pretty binary brain when it comes to femmes and butches.. And I am going to use the term "butches" here, just because I don't want to have to type: butches/Stones/TG identified/transgender/transsexual people every other line.. That being said

When I first learned the term "butch" and "femme", I was 18 and I was in a chat room.. There were stereotypes all around and I was learned by other butches on how to treat a femme.. I was shown how a femme *should* behave and act and dress.. I ate it up and ran with it.. 14 years later, I am unlearning a good bit.. lol Not all of it, for sure, I mean, your partner should be shown respect, always.. But do I have to open the door everytime? No, not if it means it turns into a lil awkward moment when both of you are reaching for the door like it's a race.. lol This has happened..

I can't relate to femme invisablity, but I can relate to being a transguy and feeling like I am not accepted in the queer realm.. I actually have to out myself at times, which is interesting, to say the least.. I can also relate to being one of those butches that assumed that certain things are true about a woman because she is femme.. Guilty.

I was in a situation not too long ago where a femme mentioned using a strap on.. Not on me, per se, but just in general, and allll kinds of crap came up for me. Since that time, I have had a lot of time to think about this reaction.. Would it be diffrent if it were just a one night hook-up? Would it change if I were in a relationship with this woman? Why?

I don't have the answers for that, but I am going to try in the future to keep that experience and some of the things said in this thread in mind.. Thank you to those that have posted, I have enjoyed reading and will continue to quietly stalk this thread.. Thank you

-Tony

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Beau

I'm here to show support for all femmes of all flavors.

Yeah, cunnilingus got my attention.

But then, so does cock sucking.

Equal opportunity orgasms for all are wonderful. Stating that any sexual act is the province of gender is just "fucking" ridiculous.

Count me in on that support! How the hell did stuff like any sexual act is the province of gender get started, anyway!!! FeFruckSake... pun, intended!

OK, I'll shut-up and listen!

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by Emmy

This is a great discussion. I'm relatively newly out- about 3 years- so perhaps my perspective just stems from inexperience. I can honestly say, though, that I've never personally been made to feel inferior, or "not femme enough" by another femme, not once. The femmes I've met have been unfailingly gracious, welcoming me to the club

Online, I suppose I have seen a fair amount 'ewwww'-ing going on about any sort of sexual interest, on the part of either butches or femmes, that doesn't quite adhere to gender stereotypes. Perhaps, though, this is improving over time? I'm not certain of it, but I get the sense that maybe this was a bit more common a few years ago than it is today, thank goodness- probably thanks to folks' speaking up about it in threads like this.

Interestingly enough, I have had little, if any, feedback from femmes that I am not "femme enough" or made to feel inferior in terms of my IDing as Femme...but I also appear very feminine and I have heard from friends who are not as femme appearing that they have had some crappy experiences.

I have felt competition from other femmes, in terms of attention from butches...and we all know how small the community is...I've seen some serious cat fights. Luckily I avoid that crap as much as possible.

I'd like to think I have really good boundaries and I try not to let the "femme enough" crap affect me, even if from afar.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

Interestingly enough, I have had little, if any, feedback from femmes that I am not "femme enough" or made to feel inferior in terms of my IDing as Femme...but I also appear very feminine and I have heard from friends who are not as femme appearing that they have had some crappy experiences.

I have felt competition from other femmes, in terms of attention from butches...and we all know how small the community is...I've seen some serious cat fights. Luckily I avoid that crap as much as possible.

I'd like to think I have really good boundaries and I try not to let the "femme enough" crap affect me, even if from afar.

If I may ask, do you think that the association of "femme" is done purely based on looks, very similar to butches based on how "macho" they are?



Side comment: Maybe the idea that one shouldn't be judging a book by its cover has been pretty much tossed out by the community in a general sense?

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by Linus

If I may ask, do you think that the association of "femme" is done purely based on looks, very similar to butches based on how "macho" they are?



Side comment: Maybe the idea that one shouldn't be judging a book by its cover has been pretty much tossed out by the community in a general sense?

Yes, absolutely. I know a few femmes who are not as "feminine" as I am or others, as in the stereotypical make-up, heels, dresses, etc. So, they have heard the "not femme enough" many times.

And yes. Femme is a personal ID. Every Femme has their own personal definition. It sucks that we as a community label each other based in appearances. Considering we face so much of it in the world, you'd think we'd learn from that

[blush]

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

Yes, absolutely. I know a few femmes who are not as "feminine" as I am or others, as in the stereotypical make-up, heels, dresses, etc. So, they have heard the "not femme enough" many times.

And yes. Femme is a personal ID. Every Femme has their own personal definition. It sucks that we as a community label each other based in appearances. Considering we face so much of it in the world, you'd think we'd learn from that

Do you think that the labeling is more pronounced in the online community? I say this because usually if you put a gaggle of femmes together, our femme-ness becomes blinding. You can see it from space. Dress, makeup etc...doesn't seem to matter.

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by blush

Do you think that the labeling is more pronounced in the online community? I say this because usually if you put a gaggle of femmes together, our femme-ness becomes blinding. You can see it from space. Dress, makeup etc...doesn't seem to matter.

Hmmm... that is interesting to think about...

So tell me if I am understanding: Do you mean specifically that labeling online, like here, without the added piece of physical community is more pronounced?

As in if none of us every physically met, we are more apt to label because we haven't seen each other in person to see that all Femmes are not all dresses and heels?

Did any of that make sense? I am having a hard time articulating....

[blush]

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

Hmmm... that is interesting to think about...

So tell me if I am understanding: Do you mean specifically that labeling online, like here, without the added piece of physical community is more pronounced?

As in if none of us every physically met, we are more apt to label because we haven't seen each other in person to see that all Femmes are not all dresses and heels?

Did any of that make sense? I am having a hard time articulating....

Yeah! That's exactly it.