school experiences for trans folks

[Soft*Silver]

I started this thread because I didnt see another thread like it. My daughter just graduated and is now a licensed teacher. She secured a summer position teaching a class of 2nd and 3rd graders. She has 10 children. From day one she had a little "boy" who would always go where the girls were suppose to go. If the girls were to go to the tables to eat while the boys were to clean up the last activity, the child would go to the tables to eat. She never corrected him. When she had them line up to use the restrooms he went into the girls line. She asked him if he thought maybe he should be in the boys line and he said, no, because he was a girl. One of the boys piped upm and told "him" to get into the boys line. My daughter told the boy that this child could pick whatever line he wanted to stand in but when it came time to use the bathroom, (and she cleared it with the child before she said this) "he" would use the boys' room.

The child, (lets call him Randy) has a name that can be used for boy or girl. Randy tells my daughter how he knows he is a girl and thanks her for letting her be (note the pronoun change on purpose now..) who she is. My daughter is very comfortable working with her. She is 8 or 9 years old.

My daughter has asked me to ask the trans community what they wish their teachers had done for them when they were kids in school. How were things handled back then and how should they have been handled instead?

I told my daughter that she is giving Randy a safe environment to be who she is, something she might not ever get again in the school system. I told her that it only takes one person, to make a difference in a kid's life. Her impact will last a lifetime for Randy.

So speak up and give me some things I can take back to my daughter...

[Liam]

I have not forgiven Mrs. Manion, for not allowing me to use the boys bathroom, in kindergarten.

[Dylan]

Mrs. Clifford

Second grade

I always got to do the boy stuff. I didn't even have to 'ask' her, she just put me with the boys.

She was the best teacher ever, and not because I learned so much, but because there was never any weirdness with the boy thing...it just was, and she got it, and she wouldn't let anyone give me any crap for it.


There Was Also An Incident Involving My Mother, A Dress, And A Major Ass Beating, And Mrs. Clifford Handled It Very Well,
Dylan

[Soon]

Softness,

Don't you think the school (teacher/admin) needs to talk to the parent(s) about this situation?

I think it is admirable that your daughter is acknowledging the child's gender; however, the parents need to be aware of this situation and (hopefully) be on board (as well as administration) with a reasonable, aware and compassionate approach to recognizing and affirming this child's gender.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by softness

I started this thread because I didnt see another thread like it. My daughter just graduated and is now a licensed teacher. She secured a summer position teaching a class of 2nd and 3rd graders. She has 10 children. From day one she had a little "boy" who would always go where the girls were suppose to go. If the girls were to go to the tables to eat while the boys were to clean up the last activity, the child would go to the tables to eat. She never corrected him. When she had them line up to use the restrooms he went into the girls line. She asked him if he thought maybe he should be in the boys line and he said, no, because he was a girl. One of the boys piped upm and told "him" to get into the boys line. My daughter told the boy that this child could pick whatever line he wanted to stand in but when it came time to use the bathroom, (and she cleared it with the child before she said this) "he" would use the boys' room.

The child, (lets call him Randy) has a name that can be used for boy or girl. Randy tells my daughter how he knows he is a girl and thanks her for letting her be (note the pronoun change on purpose now..) who she is. My daughter is very comfortable working with her. She is 8 or 9 years old.

My daughter has asked me to ask the trans community what they wish their teachers had done for them when they were kids in school. How were things handled back then and how should they have been handled instead?

I told my daughter that she is giving Randy a safe environment to be who she is, something she might not ever get again in the school system. I told her that it only takes one person, to make a difference in a kid's life. Her impact will last a lifetime for Randy.

So speak up and give me some things I can take back to my daughter...

I didn't/wouldn't say a thing. Mama would have beat the hell out of me. I'm sure of it. She loved me but she had a terrible and fast temper. She would never have considered as to why or how I felt the way I felt. And I felt this as far back as 4. I lived life appeasing everyone.....but me. I'm starting injections now at age 53. As sure as hell, I'll get disowned. That little girl in your daughter's class is very fortunate to live in this day and age and have people around like your daughter. Children just don't lie and I have always believed we know who really are early on.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Softness,

Don't you think the school (teacher/admin) needs to talk to the parent(s) about this situation?

I think it is admirable that your daughter is acknowledging the child's gender; however, the parents need to be aware of this situation and (hopefully) be on board (as well as administration) with a reasonable, aware and compassionate approach to recognizing and affirming this child's gender.

I disagree that the parents need to be aware

I disagree that a big hoopla has to be made


I Took Enough Ass Beatings For Telling My Mother I Was A Boy...A Phone Call Home And A Stink From School Would Have Only Made It Worse,
Dylan

P.S. I'm sure the child has already informed the parents. If the parents were cool, they'd have already started the hoopla

P.P.S. We can agree to disagree though

[Soft*Silver]

I believe my daughter did talk to the principal about this. I will ask her..and ask if she has talked to the parents too.

to the trans folks:

What experiences did you have, as a trans kid, when your parents were called/talked to, about your gender issues at school?

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Softness,

Don't you think the school (teacher/admin) needs to talk to the parent(s) about this situation?

I think it is admirable that your daughter is acknowledging the child's gender; however, the parents need to be aware of this situation and (hopefully) be on board (as well as administration) with a reasonable, aware and compassionate approach to recognizing and affirming this child's gender.

[Soft*Silver]

Jet...I am so glad you are starting injections! Courage rules!

Originally Posted by Jet

I didn't/wouldn't say a thing. Mama would have beat the hell out of me. I'm sure of it. She loved me but she had a terrible and fast temper. She would never have considered as to why or how I felt the way I felt. And I felt this as far back as 4. I lived life appeasing everyone.....but me. I'm starting injections now at age 53. As sure as hell, I'll get disowned. That little girl in your daughter's class is very fortunate to live in this day and age and have people around like your daughter. Children just don't lie and I have always believed we know who really are early on.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by softness

Jet...I am so glad you are starting injections! Courage rules!

Courage or stupidity. I haven't decided which one I am as yet.

[Soft*Silver]

I will pose this to my daughter, Liam. I already told her to change the way she makes them line up..boys in one line, girls in another. It emphasises gender roles this way. She said ten kids in one line made the line too long in the hallway. I suggested she question why the lines have to be gender based? Why not create two lines and just let them decide who goes in what line on their own? She loved the idea and is going to implement this.

We talked about how to socialize kids differently about gender. I have taught her well about the unconscious integration of society's beliefs and values and how everything we do and say (and dont do and dont say) creates social more maps in our unconscious that leads kids to develop their concept of not only themselves, but of others. She is acutely aware of how significant the littlest thing can be, when it comes to a child. Bathroom privelages being one such "little" thing. .

The kids have all told her she is the greatest teacher..she has made rubber eggs, dishwasher liquid tornadoes, and mini lava lamps with them. I go in next week and am doing horticulture stuff with them and the following week, I bring in my dog, who will teach them about dragons...(its a story she and I wrote..gonna test drive it on the kids)

Originally Posted by Liam

I have not forgiven Mrs. Manion, for not allowing me to use the boys bathroom, in kindergarten.

[Soft*Silver]

I vote its courage...stupidity doesnt come to my mind when you are the subject....

Originally Posted by Jet

Courage or stupidity. I haven't decided which one I am as yet.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I disagree that the parents need to be aware

I disagree that a big hoopla has to be made


I Took Enough Ass Beatings For Telling My Mother I Was A Boy...A Phone Call Home And A Stink From School Would Have Only Made It Worse,
Dylan

P.S. I'm sure the child has already informed the parents. If the parents were cool, they'd have already started the hoopla

P.P.S. We can agree to disagree though

I'm not saying a hoopla needs to be made, but I think most parents would want to be informed (especially at this young age) that a plan of action (Softness' daughter has already taken steps) has been undertaken by a school to accommodate a child's preferred/actual gender.

A teacher can also put themselves at risk (this is Softness' daughter's first job from what I understand as a teacher) for making such decisions without informing the parents.

If a teacher or a school administration has agreed to accommodate and acknowledge the child's gender, without informing the parents (and this continues beyond Junior/Senior Kindergarten--even though, I do think this could even be asking for trouble legal-wise), this could create huge issues for the teacher if the parents are not informed and do not agree upon the school's action.

It just is.

ETA:
I just re-read the OP and the child is actually in second/third grade? At this grade level, where I live, there is no way that parents would not take action against our School Board if a teacher had been recognizing and taking solid steps to acknowledge a child's true gender without the parent(s)' explicit consent to do so.

That teacher and school board are really putting themselves at risk by embarking on a course of gender identity action without parental knowledge and it could be a huge liability for both teacher and employer. I am just being realistic--despite the good intentions of the teacher/principal (and whomever else is on board with acknowledging the child's gender).

[T D]

Ya know, in the 50's it woulda been a big ole hoopla. The closest I ever came to even hinting at possibly being different was when I announced, at around the age of 6 or 7, that I was NOT having kids, ever! Which I did not. I did however realize in about 1st grade that something was very different for me. I wasn't like the other kids and I knew it.

It took me 50+ years to do something about it.... times, they are very different now!

Many kudos to your daughter!!

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I'm not saying a hoopla needs to be made, but I think most parents would want to be informed (especially at this young age) that a plan of action (Softness' daughter has already taken steps) has been undertaken by a school to accommodate a child's preferred/actual gender.

A teacher can also put themselves at risk (this is Softness' daughter's first job from what I understand as a teacher) for making such decisions without informing the parents.

If a teacher or a school administration has agreed to accommodate and acknowledge the child's gender, without informing the parents (and this continues beyond Junior/Senior Kindergarten--even though, I do think this could even be asking for trouble legal-wise), this could create huge issues for the teacher if the parents are not informed and do not agree upon the school's action.

It just is.

I understand what you're saying.

I'm just saying the parents already know. The kid didn't just pop up ONLY at school saying this. The kid has said this at home, probably for years. If the kid isn't talking about how the parents know about this, the parents aren't cool with it.

I got a ten spot says the parents don't handle the phone call well, and get pissed at the school, and nix the plan. This will also make it more difficult for the kid. When really, what's it matter what line the kid stands in?


Dylan

[Soft*Silver]

Soon, I thank you for bringing up points like this. This is exactly why I wanted to bring this to our forums. I need feedback not just from the trans folks, but also in regard to my daughter's role as the teacher. I see your point of view, Soon, as well as Dylan's. In fact, my kid and I have talked about how she has already felt concern about another child because it would mean talking to a parent who had already shown anger when they were called about their child. (not Randy, a different child with different issues)

I did long term subsituting in NY for a high school level vocational school. I had two classrooms...one for behaviorally challenged kids in a community work program, and another academic one for adolescent sexual predators. I was also a teacher's aide in NH for DD kids. I LOVED working with these kids, all of them. I wish I had been a teacher instead of a counselor now. (And I have too maimed to go back and get that degree) I commend the teachers of today...they have so many things to consider when they are working with their classrooms...

Originally Posted by Dylan

I disagree that the parents need to be aware

I disagree that a big hoopla has to be made


I Took Enough Ass Beatings For Telling My Mother I Was A Boy...A Phone Call Home And A Stink From School Would Have Only Made It Worse,
Dylan

P.S. I'm sure the child has already informed the parents. If the parents were cool, they'd have already started the hoopla

P.P.S. We can agree to disagree though

[Soft*Silver]

Soon, you bring up valid points...(scary ones for me, re my daughter)...as i said, I am pretty sure she talked to her principal about Randy.

the point of my thread, tho, is to get feedback from the trans folks, about their time in school, and how it affected them and what they wish a teacher would have done for them...

but please do (and anyone else too) jump in and offer the other side, the legalese side...I need to be able to bring that to her too...

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I'm not saying a hoopla needs to be made, but I think most parents would want to be informed (especially at this young age) that a plan of action (Softness' daughter has already taken steps) has been undertaken by a school to accommodate a child's preferred/actual gender.

A teacher can also put themselves at risk (this is Softness' daughter's first job from what I understand as a teacher) for making such decisions without informing the parents.

If a teacher or a school administration has agreed to accommodate and acknowledge the child's gender, without informing the parents (and this continues beyond Junior/Senior Kindergarten--even though, I do think this could even be asking for trouble legal-wise), this could create huge issues for the teacher if the parents are not informed and do not agree upon the school's action.

It just is.

ETA:
I just re-read the OP and the child is actually in second/third grade? At this grade level, where I live, there is no way that parents would not take action against our School Board if a teacher had been recognizing and taking solid steps to acknowledge a child's true gender without the parent(s)' explicit consent to do so.

That teacher and school board are really putting themselves at risk by embarking on a course of gender identity action without parental knowledge and it could be a huge liability for both teacher and employer. I am just being realistic--despite the good intentions of the teacher/principal (and whomever else is on board with acknowledging the child's gender).

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I understand what you're saying.

I'm just saying the parents already know. The kid didn't just pop up ONLY at school saying this. The kid has said this at home, probably for years. If the kid isn't talking about how the parents know about this, the parents aren't cool with it.

I got a ten spot says the parents don't handle the phone call well, and get pissed at the school, and nix the plan. This will also make it more difficult for the kid. When really, what's it matter what line the kid stands in?


Dylan

Dylan,

I take no issue with the fact that the parents already know--and that the child has probably--explicitly--stated their gender to their parents.

However, it isn't just about the line--and whose standing in it--this issue will progress from the line, to the loo, to names (perhaps?), etc.

If one step is taken (to put them in the line they prefer), others will have to follow.

That child WILL come home and say that at SCHOOL they are allowed to be do this or that, be called this or that, (etc.). THAT is when the shit will hit the fan that the school has been making decisions WITHOUT the parent(s)' knowledge.

It will not just stop at letting the child go into a certain gender line division. And, if Softness' daughter is referring to this child with female pronouns without the parent's consent? You think THAT is going to go over well? It isn't and Softness' daughter needs to be aware that she is putting her job in jeopardy by making these decisions without Administrative AND parental support.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by softness

Soon, you bring up valid points...(scary ones for me, re my daughter)...as i said, I am pretty sure she talked to her principal about Randy.

the point of my thread, tho, is to get feedback from the trans folks, about their time in school, and how it affected them and what they wish a teacher would have done for them...

but please do (and anyone else too) jump in and offer the other side, the legalese side...I need to be able to bring that to her too...

I will back out of the thread now, Softness.

I have no legal expertise except for being in education for over ten years and know what would occur in my Board if this was happening without parents' knowledge and consent. (and this is Canada)

Good luck to your daughter and kudos to her on striving to build and maintain an inclusive teaching environment--I hope she gets the support she needs in this matter.

[Dylan]

So, besides standing in a girl's line, what else is your daughter doing, Softness?

Because, I do see what HSIN is saying, but what is your daughter going to do when the parents are irate and refuse to allow the child's gender to be acknowledged?

I mean, can't your daughter just avoid pronouns with Randy? Let Randi stand in girl lines or do the girl things and avoid the parent teacher freak out altogether?


Dylan

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Dylan,

I take no issue with the fact that the parents already know--and that the child has probably--explicitly--stated their gender to their parents.

However, it isn't just about the line--and whose standing in it--this issue will progress from the line, to the loo, to names (perhaps?), etc.

If one step is taken (to put them in the line they prefer), others will have to follow.

That child WILL come home and say that at SCHOOL they are allowed to be do this or that, be called this or that, (etc.). THAT is when the shit will hit the fan that the school has been making decisions WITHOUT the parent(s)' knowledge.

It will not just stop at letting the child go into a certain gender line division. And, if Softness' daughter is referring to this child with female pronouns without the parent's consent? You think THAT is going to go over well? It isn't and Softness' daughter needs to be aware that she is putting her job in jeopardy by making these decisions without Administrative AND parental support.

Again, I totally get your point.

Do you really think this kid is stupid enough to run home and say, "At school, I stand in the girls' line?" I'm sure my second grade teacher would hav e gotten in trouble for letting me sit on the boys' side...right after I got a major ass beating. Hence the reason I never told my mother what went on at school. By second grade, transkids know very well how to walk the tightrope with their parents.

The Teacher Can Avoid Pronouns Now, But What's She Going To Do When The Parents Say No Way And Demand She Treat Randy Like A Boy?,
Dylan