Open Letter: Dear Femme

[apretty]

Originally Posted by evolveme

You can witness these types of behaviors as early as kindergarten, even pre-school.

i fought 'believing' you or acknowledging this truth until i got to the part about seeing it in little girls... while i am childless, i am hugely involved in my nieces' life and this struggle-for-power, sadly rings true.

and while i do (reluctantly) acknowledge this behavior, i cannot help but wonder where it stems from (because i want to take the root cause of this 'round back!) and while i do think that we've ALL (to some degree) experienced this 'good girl' conditioning, i can't help thinking about this *struggle* as a form of competition, not unlike a 'beauty pageant', where there can be just one (crowned) winner. girls are conditioned to 'be good', i mean that's an obvious part of it--but i think sadly, more so they're conditioned to 'win' in ways that defeat other girls/women. for some reason it would seem that there can be just *one* female 'top' position (which they can never really attain, just struggle for!) while men are conditioned to work/play/win *together*. (not to mention that this is celebrated as a 'masculine' trait)

i think also, that little girls are taught to not trust *female*, bombarded with messages of 'less-than' and weakness and quite possibly, if grown women are searching to pin-point how and why they've been 'silenced' we find ourselves looking for ways in which 'femmes' have 'silenced' us because we *still* believe that female, specifically femme = EVIL (due to our heavy and as yet, very UNpacked knapsack), not to mention, i strongly believe that we all find what we're looking for...

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by apretty

i think also, that little girls are taught to not trust *female*, bombarded with messages of 'less-than' and weakness and quite possibly, if grown women are searching to pin-point how and why they've been 'silenced' we find ourselves looking for ways in which 'femmes' have 'silenced' us because we *still* believe that female, specifically femme = EVIL (due to our heavy and as yet, very UNpacked knapsack), not to mention, i strongly believe that we all find what we're looking for...

When I asked the question do Femme's judge each other harshly, it was a myopic question related to the topic here, and the microcosm that is the B/F community.

In no way did I mean to imply that *only* Femmes judge. Or silence. Or anything.

I also wonder about the validity of being silenced by anything other than ones self. There must be some pretty heavy self imposed borders that allow a person to think this. To me, nobody has the power to take away our voices. We mute them as a willing participant.

I have to do a big ole think on feminine and/or Femme equaling = Evil. I have to think if those are the messages I have received.

If I am dating somebody and another Femme persues and ultimately ends up with said person? Is the Femme really the bad person? Or is it the person I was dating who has free will?

[christie]

Originally Posted by apretty

i think also, that little girls are taught to not trust *female*, bombarded with messages of 'less-than' and weakness and quite possibly, if grown women are searching to pin-point how and why they've been 'silenced' we find ourselves looking for ways in which 'femmes' have 'silenced' us because we *still* believe that female, specifically femme = EVIL (due to our heavy and as yet, very UNpacked knapsack), not to mention, i strongly believe that we all find what we're looking for... [/FONT]

Thank you for using these exact words. Until I came across this thread, I had been composing a thread titled "Living Less Than" to broach this very real issue.

One of the biggest struggles I have had in adapting to living with/caring for my precious motherinlaw is her very entrenched view of men/males and women/females.

I love my motherinlaw. I treat her as I would want one of my sisterinlaw's to treat my mother. And yet, she is the bane of my existence at times.

She is ENAMORED with men. Period. Doesn't matter the character of the man - if he was born with a penis, its her job/duty/obligation as a less than woman to cater to his every need. Nothing pisses me off more than watching her dote over the uneducated redneck who we have hired to perform some type of manual labor around the house. She sat, for over two hours, while the plumber worked on our well pump. Not did she sit there and distract a man with prattle while he was being paid by the hour, she also made sure he had ice water. The selfadmitted illiterate handyguy down the street for whom she cooks a full blown, southern Sunday dinner. I won't even get started on her view of her son, the unmedicated bipolar, raging alcoholic, unemployed idiot. Nothing is EVER a man's fault - its always "one of them whores".

In all my nearly 40 years have I ever, ever seen this level of kowtowing to males. Never have I felt the need to cook a meal for someone I was paying by the hour. Doubt I ever will.

Imagine how difficult it is to watch this play out, day after day. Yes, I was raised by a mother with a similar background and is in the same generation. However, I was taught that I could achieve anything I desired. I could be, do, have just the same as my brothers. I would like to think that it was my father's way of forming me into what I now call being a "grown ass woman."

This might have been a slight derail and for that, I apologize. I do think that as we talk about femme issues that this is relevant and how we overcome it, bypass it or defeat it is important.

I am tired of being told or it being inferred that I am less than because of my gender. It is very contradictory in what I see in the mirror, what I present to the world and how I move through the world.

My femme is not always wrapped in a nice pretty package with that disarming southern drawl. Sometimes she is. Sometimes she is that abrasive, bitchy tall redhead in lovely, lovely stilettoes that can be hurled at one's head in a nanosecond.

Either way, one thing is consistent... she is me... my truth... my strength... every day.

Christie

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by evolveme

I love what you're saying here, and it's important to me too. I don't want to get caught in the trap of negative stereotyping, especially not of other feminine people.

But I posted earlier about how female and feminine people are socialized to "be good" (so that they are more easily controlled and thus more palatable to male/masculine others) and how this is so overwhelming that it forces natural tendencies to aggression into what is termed relational aggression.

You can witness these types of behaviors as early as kindergarten, even pre-school.

Girls will gather and isolate. They will shun and gossip. They will punish one another by way of social mechanisms (you can even see these behaviors displayed among certain gay male groups). It takes a strong sensibility and a compassionate heart to avoid these behaviors, because they too are heavily socialized.

ETA: I think it's much more useful to understand it than to rage about the tendency.

Originally Posted by Kosmo

Not sure either. I read it as certain gay male group behaviors = shun and gossip. Shunning and gossiping can hardly be a female only trait. Maybe it's thread topic specific. From my experience and perspective, males gossip just as much if not more (they have more opportunity for it; again, my experience only). Females seem to engage more in comparison discussions (I am in position at work to overhear a lot *where's my iPod?*) . As for shunning, not really sure. I've had experience to be shunned by both female traited and male traited people.

Male supporter here, invited, swear!

I want to touch on what e is talking about here. I think it's important to recognize that regardless of the culture or subculture, femininity never fails to be the scapegoat. If you look at the gay male community (with which I'm more familiar than even this one), masculinity is praised, femininity is suspect ("girl is such a nelly queen"). If you look at the lesbian/butch-femme community, masculinity is praised, femininity is suspect ("she looks straight, she's not a real femme" or "she always takes up for trans men, she's "rolling over for the men.")

I think we tend to overlook the ways in which many of us are drawn toward certain gender expressions, even when they contradict our socialization. The fact that there are young feminine boy and masculine girl children suggests that gender expression often precedes or supercedes gender norms. We must look at it in terms of biological as well as social constructs or else everything becomes a choice (gender, sexuality) which supports all kinds of wrong patriarchal ideas about the people here on this website.

That's why instead of constantly critiquing femininity, we should recognize that it exists on its own independent of anything else (as is being talked about in here) and can offer its own rewards to those who naturally gravitate to it, whether female or male. We need to recognize that assuming femininity is weak, passive, and only exists to appease, stroke, reassure men/masculine is one way this community is promoting the male-centric atmosphere that inspired this thread. We have to strip femininity from its negative connotations to free femme. I wonder if this has to happen before we can dislocate masculinity and change notions of it.

[evolveme]

Originally Posted by Ben-Her

I think we tend to overlook the ways in which many of us are drawn toward certain gender expressions, even when they contradict our socialization. The fact that there are young feminine boy and masculine girl children suggests that gender expression often precedes or supercedes gender norms. We must look at it in terms of biological as well as social constructs or else everything becomes a choice (gender, sexuality) which supports all kinds of wrong patriarchal ideas about the people here on this website.

That's why instead of constantly critiquing femininity, we should recognize that it exists on its own independent of anything else (as is being talked about in here) and can offer its own rewards to those who naturally gravitate to it, whether female or male.

Yes, and yes again.

Somebody remember to bring the underlined up every few pages whenever we begin to spiral downward.

I also wanted to say way back there, but have gotten distracted, that I personally and absofuckinglutely acknowledge and allow that femme is not just female, not just girl/woman.

I know some pretty kick-ass boy femmes and others and, for me, they only expand the possibilities of what-all this experience will allow.