Obama's Public Support of Michael Vick

[Sachita]

The biggest problem with pits and dogs like rotties is the power of their jaw. Any dog can turn aggressive. Some breeds, like pits are just more capable of killing quickly and thats what makes this a dangerous breed. My rottie Bear (RIP) was the most gentle animal I ever met and 120 pounds but there was no doubt in my mind he could kill a human within seconds. Could a lab do this? Probably not. I've broken up dog fights before and I've been bitten by dogs (as well as many other animals). I would not, under any circumstances break up a fight with a pit, rottie, etc. I would scream like a crazy person, pick up objects and throw it.

another thing and you can disagree as much as you want- I would never leave a jaw strong breed or any dog for that matter alone with a child. I've seen the most calm breeds become scared and turn into monsters.

I board pits and most all dogs. I am more cautious and supervise them around other dogs because I know what they are capable of. This doesnt mean a human has the right to abuse them in any way

[The_Lady_Snow]

The dog is not the problem, it's the treatment they received from their caretakers be it past, now or future.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Sachita

The biggest problem with pits and dogs like rotties is the power of their jaw. Any dog can turn aggressive. Some breeds, like pits are just more capable of killing quickly and thats what makes this a dangerous breed. My rottie Bear (RIP) was the most gentle animal I ever met and 120 pounds but there was no doubt in my mind he could kill a human within seconds. Could a lab do this? Probably not. I've broken up dog fights before and I've been bitten by dogs (as well as many other animals). I would not, under any circumstances break up a fight with a pit, rottie, etc. I would scream like a crazy person, pick up objects and throw it.

another thing and you can disagree as much as you want- I would never leave a jaw strong breed or any dog for that matter alone with a child. I've seen the most calm breeds become scared and turn into monsters.

I board pits and most all dogs. I am more cautious and supervise them around other dogs because I know what they are capable of. This doesnt mean a human has the right to abuse them in any way

I think this is a critical point, and one reason why people that don't know, understand and handle dogs properly shouldn't (I think) own these breeds. We have a mini-dacshund and, as someone previously pointed out, they are a biting breed. Ours doesn't, but I've met many that do. The difference is that a doxie really can't do much harm given their size and strength. Worst case scenario might require a stitch or two....and they can be absolutely restrained easily even by a sensible child.

I've known wonderful pits, rotties and dobermans...but I wouldn't own one. Not because there's anything wrong with the breed, but because I know myself - and I don't have the dedication that it takes to train and handle these breeds properly.

It's a shame that these breeds seem to attract, in many cases, the absolute last people who should own them.

[Medusa]

Did anyone see the article this morning with that Tucker idiot saying that Michael Vick should have gotten the death penalty?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_802192.html

Does anyone see the mental illness in that?

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Did anyone see the article this morning with that Tucker idiot saying that Michael Vick should have gotten the death penalty?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_802192.html

Does anyone see the mental illness in that?

Tucker is an idiot... I remember when this all hit the news. My initial response to him and what he did...

Kill the FUCKER! Throw him to the most brutal inmates - strip him down and let them at him. But do it slow and be calculating about it.

Emotional response!

I am more offended he referred to himself as a Christian - as if he is a Supreme being. I am a Christian (yeah so) and I have made mistakes (yeah so).

Do I think he should have been executed? No, because I do not believe in the death penalty. However... What he did is unforgivable. I have no tolerance for those who pray on the weak. Be it animals, children, women, elderly. I have no tolerance and cannot think beyond my emotional self, which is why I try to stay out of these conversation! This replaces every single logical cell in my body.

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Did anyone see the article this morning with that Tucker idiot saying that Michael Vick should have gotten the death penalty?

[URL]

Does anyone see the mental illness in that?

doesn't surprise me it's Fox News. There should be a law against them being allowed to call themselves news. Anytime a news caster adds their own personal opinion to the news it becomes their own personal opinion. MSNBC does the same thing but for liberals.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by JustJo

have the dedication that it takes to train and handle these breeds properly.

It's a shame that these breeds seem to attract, in many cases, the absolute last people who should own them.

bingo. that is the essence of it right there. I have a customer that has a Great Pyrenees she keeps as an indoor dog. This dog should be outside, up all night barking and protecting his home. Nothing would make this dog happier. When he comes I let him bark all night and sleep on the deck. (he has a dog door to come in but prefers outdoors)

People dont research breeds before taking them into their homes. This is so important. You should not take in large breeds unless you know you're able to handle them and feed them. Just MY animals- dogs and pig (pig eats same dog food) I spend at least 150-200 a month. Also, check because some breeds are more prone to medical conditions and vet care is something you need to consider when taking any pet.

I have an awesome pit posted on my facebook right now needing a home. He's an awesome dog for a one on one owner he can feel safe and bond with. He would not be good with other dogs, cats or children because he was abused- kicked, left to starve and neglected. The lady that has him now says he fights to be near her because she probably is the only person in his life that has ever shown him any affection. He's an awesome dog for the right person. It makes me cry.

I've seen so much abuse and crap these past few years. Its probably the industry I'm in and my work in adoptions. I think its great to be concerned, love animals and definitely talk about it but its awesome when you are proactive and helping to find solutions. It doesnt have to cost a lot of money or even time. just a consistent plan and commitment.

As I type this I wait for a quote on programming to build that foster pet connection site I keep talking about. Its going to help so many people and animals. I hope you'll all support me.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by InfiniteFemme

Tucker is an idiot... I remember when this all hit the news. My initial response to him and what he did...

Kill the FUCKER! Throw him to the most brutal inmates - strip him down and let them at him. But do it slow and be calculating about it.

Emotional response!

I am more offended he referred to himself as a Christian - as if he is a Supreme being. I am a Christian (yeah so) and I have made mistakes (yeah so).

Do I think he should have been executed? No, because I do not believe in the death penalty. However... What he did is unforgivable. I have no tolerance for those who pray on the weak. Be it animals, children, women, elderly. I have no tolerance and cannot think beyond my emotional self, which is why I try to stay out of these conversation! This replaces every single logical cell in my body.

lol - oh girl you sound like me now!

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Organicbutch

doesn't surprise me it's Fox News. There should be a law against them being allowed to call themselves news. Anytime a news caster adds their own personal opinion to the news it becomes their own personal opinion. MSNBC does the same thing but for liberals.

fuck the news. I mean really. Oh wait you mean the venue that feeds our mind a bunch of bullshit to condition and herd the human race? lol Oh hell thats a major derail! lol But I totally agree with you Organic.

I'm going back to work!

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by Organicbutch

doesn't surprise me it's Fox News. There should be a law against them being allowed to call themselves news. Anytime a news caster adds their own personal opinion to the news it becomes their own personal opinion. MSNBC does the same thing but for liberals.

Actually, that's the difference between a news caster and a news analyst. Neither Fox, nor MSNBC are known for their newscasters. I can't name a single newscaster from either network. But they both have a plethora of news analysts. And those analysts are paid for their opinion and to apply it to what is making news that day.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Did anyone see the article this morning with that Tucker idiot saying that Michael Vick should have gotten the death penalty?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_802192.html

Does anyone see the mental illness in that?

A conservative white guy calling for the death of a black man over a breach of the law? Say it ain't so, Medusa! Say it ain't so!

Cheers
Aj

[suebee]

Interesting article on the legal considerations of Michael Vick's ban on owning animals. CLICK HERE

In regards to the severity of Vick's crimes, I found the following part of the article to be particularily interesting:
"The ongoing nature of his conduct remains serious cause for concern and understandably contributes to the enduring distrust of his repeated public assertions of remorse and reformation. Some additional yet basic risk factors one should consider in assessing Mr. Vick’s case and the continuing threat convicted abusers present to society include:

1.The vulnerability of his victims;
2.The large number of his victims;
3.The number of victimizing incidents;
4.The severity of the injury and methods used to kill;
5.The duration of the abuse;
6.The degree of pre-planning or premeditation;
7.The existence of other criminal conduct at the scene of the animal abuse (e.g., drugs, gun law violations, gambling);
8.The fact that this offender served as an instigator of criminal acts involving multiple other perpetrators; and
9.The offender’s history of positive interactions with the victim animal(s) prior to the abuse.
In light of these factors, it is difficult to discern how Mr. Vick’s supporters could reasonably believe that he should be allowed to exercise control over another dog. The Animal Legal Defense Fund strongly disagrees with that view and recommends the longest possible ban on ownership be maintained. Whether his supporters are truly concerned about animal welfare or just too invested in Mr. Vick’s “comeback” to give a damn about the fate of the next dog who comes under Mr. Vick’s control—you will have to decide for yourself."

[dreadgeek]

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Mr. Vick be allowed to own another dog. I just don't think that he should spend the rest of his life in jail, be completely unemployable or, as Mr. Carlson suggested on TV, be executed. That is a far cry from suggesting that the man should own pets.

While I know that some here might think I'm being hyperbolic about the employment, I am willing to bet that if Mr. Vick were banned from playing in the NFL for life and got a job coaching at, say, a high school the same people here who want to see him continually punished would then say "how can he be allowed to teach at a high school?!" If he got a job as a street sweeper, a hue and cry would be raised. Once you've decided that someone should pay and pay and pay there is very little that will be granted to that person in the future. If the best Mr. Vick could do was working the grill at McDonald's there would be people who would say that they would NEVER AGAIN patronize a McDonald's because of his employment there.

Cheers
Aj

Originally Posted by suebee

Interesting article on the legal considerations of Michael Vick's ban on owning animals. CLICK HERE

In regards to the severity of Vick's crimes, I found the following part of the article to be particularily interesting:
"The ongoing nature of his conduct remains serious cause for concern and understandably contributes to the enduring distrust of his repeated public assertions of remorse and reformation. Some additional yet basic risk factors one should consider in assessing Mr. Vick’s case and the continuing threat convicted abusers present to society include:

1.The vulnerability of his victims;
2.The large number of his victims;
3.The number of victimizing incidents;
4.The severity of the injury and methods used to kill;
5.The duration of the abuse;
6.The degree of pre-planning or premeditation;
7.The existence of other criminal conduct at the scene of the animal abuse (e.g., drugs, gun law violations, gambling);
8.The fact that this offender served as an instigator of criminal acts involving multiple other perpetrators; and
9.The offender’s history of positive interactions with the victim animal(s) prior to the abuse.
In light of these factors, it is difficult to discern how Mr. Vick’s supporters could reasonably believe that he should be allowed to exercise control over another dog. The Animal Legal Defense Fund strongly disagrees with that view and recommends the longest possible ban on ownership be maintained. Whether his supporters are truly concerned about animal welfare or just too invested in Mr. Vick’s “comeback” to give a damn about the fate of the next dog who comes under Mr. Vick’s control—you will have to decide for yourself."

[suebee]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Mr. Vick be allowed to own another dog. I just don't think that he should spend the rest of his life in jail, be completely unemployable or, as Mr. Carlson suggested on TV, be executed. That is a far cry from suggesting that the man should own pets.

While I know that some here might think I'm being hyperbolic about the employment, I am willing to bet that if Mr. Vick were banned from playing in the NFL for life and got a job coaching at, say, a high school the same people here who want to see him continually punished would then say "how can he be allowed to teach at a high school?!" If he got a job as a street sweeper, a hue and cry would be raised. Once you've decided that someone should pay and pay and pay there is very little that will be granted to that person in the future. If the best Mr. Vick could do was working the grill at McDonald's there would be people who would say that they would NEVER AGAIN patronize a McDonald's because of his employment there.

Cheers
Aj

I haven't seen anybody here propose that either. But believe it or not, (and I hope I've got the right organization here - I'll come back and correct myself if I find out otherwise) the ASPCA has spoken up as feeling that Vick is ready to own another dog. Obviously this greatly upsets many in the rescue community.

As for employment: the man CERTAINLY has a right to provide for himself and his family. Should social stigma follow him and perhaps prevent him from working in some jobs? It depends upon your personal values. The severity of his crimes were the reason why I posted the article. I abhor people who buy a dog and then tie it out in the back yard and throw food at it once a day. But THAT is negligence, and ignorance. Michael Vick tortured and killed HUNDREDS of dogs. He knew full well that it was illegal. He hid his crimes. In my world that makes him a dispicable human being. He has the right to gainful employment, but I wouldn't hire him, nor would I support any business that did. That's freedom of expression.

ETA: Obviously there are many people who ARE ready to support him, or at least forget about his crimes, as I haven't heard anything about the Eagles stands being empty for their games.

[BullDog]

Why don't people get all up in arms when football players physically and sexually abuse women? I've been on butch femme websites for like 11 or 12 years now and never seen anything, but I've seen multiple threads about Vick.

[Daywalker]

Actually there have been threads about that Bully.
But they were not specifically Football players.
ie~ Mike Tyson, etc.

[Just_G]

Originally Posted by suebee

He has the right to gainful employment, but I wouldn't hire him, nor would I support any business that did. That's freedom of expression.

So if everyone quit supporting wherever criminals that have served time worked, there would be a LOT of people at that same place of employment that would feel the impact. Not just the one that was hired. (who could really have turned their life around after serving their time) So I am not one to say I will NEVER support a business that has hired someone because of their record or what they did....others are impacted by that.

What people don't realize is that there are people like Michael Vick working in places we shop and support on a daily basis....how can you pick and choose where to spend your money? You can't ask for EVERYONE'S criminal record and then decide not to shop there.

When 9/11 happened, MY family business was affected because of the terrorists. The ignorance of people never fails to amaze me. We sell oriental rugs from India....a peaceful country that had NOTHING to do with what happened that day. But, people decided not to support OUR business because we sold a product that "the terrorists made and our money would be going to support more terrorism." That affected MY livelihood...still does to this day.

I believe in the good of people and hope that he learned something from his stint in Leavenworth. I still watch the NFL, even if they did let him play again. I even watched the Eagles get their asses kicked last night. No harm, no foul in my opinion. If by chance he gets another dog, I am sure there will be so many eyes on him it won't even be funny! Hopefully he has changed and become a better person through all of this. It will haunt him for the rest of his life, no matter how many good things he does or tries to do. He has a life sentence in THAT alone.

Just my little opinion on this topic....

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Why don't people get all up in arms when football players physically and sexually abuse women? I've been on butch femme websites for like 11 or 12 years now and never seen anything, but I've seen multiple threads about Vick.

Because people are fucked up and have zero priorities.

Because animal rights are very en vogue right now.

[Julie]

Actually...
PETA was founded in 1980 - It was very UnVogue!

I was part of the movement in the early 80's in NYC - though I did not personally throw RED paint on fur wearers (My father refused to bail me out of jail). I wanted to!

Though after watching a documentary on Mink Farms - he refused to own another fur and threw my mothers coats away! (Thank you Daddy!) It was very UnVogue.

There is nothing VOGUE about caring about the treatment of animals. It is about respecting LIFE!

Have you ever visited a mink farm?
It will change your life forever.
See a baby cow get slaughtered?
It will change your life forever.

(feeling a bit derailing - sorry)

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Daywalker

Actually there have been threads about that Bully.
But they were not specifically Football players.
ie~ Mike Tyson, etc.

Well I am glad if people spoke out about Mike Tyson mistreating women. I am, however, talking about something systemic- something that happens over and over and over again (i.e. football players abusing women). Since it's in the news on a fairly frequent basis and there's lots of football fans here, I find it a bit strange that people put so much focus on Vick but I haven't seen discussions about things that happen much more frequently to women at the hands of many players and not just one.