Communication 101: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Just_G

I emailed the Serenity now link to a friend of mine....because we have had discussions along this line before. She emailed me back and asked which type of communication she felt I used and what kind I thought she used.

When I messaged her back, I said I see myself as a passive communicator and her as an aggressive communicator. Shit hit the fan! I didn't say that ALL of the things that describe that type of communication described her, yet she proceeded to tell me that if she is ANY of the things on that list to me, that I don't need her in my life. WTF?!

She also proceeded to ask me which she was; verbally or physically abusive towards me. I said neither....that is not one of the things I thought fit her that was under the "aggressive communication" list.

Now, she is pissed and offended. I thought that sharing the link with her would be a great topic of conversation for us to engage in. Guess not.

I don't know if I should try to discuss this any more with her or just let it go and let her be pissed. This is one of those times when I feel like I should not have said anything, but then I would have been being passive instead of trying to discuss something I thought we could talk about without something like this happening.

This is the primary challenge that I have in communicating with aggressive communicators...because, in my experience, they don't hear feedback as feedback and a topic for discussion...but as criticism or an attack that they must defend against.

I think Gemme's advice is good...and I hope it works for you.

For me, the longer I live, the more tired I am of tip-toeing around aggressive communicators while they are stomping all over me. I prefer to spend my time with those who will really have a discussion.

These days...I tend to say "I intended this as something we could talk about...not as an attack on you. When and if you want to talk...I'd be happy to." And then I walk away (physically and/or emotionally).

It isn't the best technique, I know...but at this point it's all I can do.

Best of luck.

[Just_G]

I kind of did just that. I mentioned that I brought it up as a discussion topic and that I was not saying she IS aggressive, but that the way she communicates in conversations is more like what is described by that link for aggressive communication. We have talked about the aggressive communication thing before; like the fact she was in debate club in highschool and sometimes that is how she approaches some conversations....in a "I am going to tell you what I think, you can say what you want, but it's not gonna matter" kind of way.

I think I need some time to catch my breath. I do NOT like confrontation. I like to actually TALK, and not get all worked up til my chest is pounding.

Thank you both for your input....I really do take to heart what you have said!

[Nat]

It sounds like you stumbled across a source of shame for her. If somebody told me I was an aggressive communicator, I would be all ears and want to know more. Or maybe she was being mean to you.

[Blade]

For me it is harder to communicate online than in person. In person one can see my expression and feed off of body language. A few years back I said something like "you go girl" or "I hear ya girl" something like that to someone online and she came unglued. I was stunned. Later someone who knew me in RT explained to me that she knows I used that phrase all the time, but to this other femme it was like an insult. So just using this as an example I had to almost learn to communicate online like a different language.

I've also had people clean my clock over a post, where they interpreted what I said way differently than was my intent. We are not from the same places, or families, or had the same lifes experiences. Therefore we don't communicate the same way to begin with. Probably communication is a learned behavior, unless it is something you have worked on personally as an adult.

I had never heard of passive-aggressive in my life until the forums....chuckling of course there are many words I'd never heard of before internet. Most of those words are labeling words which a large majority of us say we hate labeling words.

Funny thing is now with a little online experience under my belt...well yeah I still stumble sometimes and get questioned about the way I've worded something, but the funny thing is how I see newbies come on and watch some of them post and the whole time I'm thinking OOoooo I bet so and so is about to clean their clock. Why do I not clean their clock or call them out. Well it's just not in my nature to be combative to begin with. To be honest I'm just not that sensitive about others words.

To me tone and body language mean a lot. I don't talk loud, I don't yell at people and it is rare that I use a hateful tone of voice. I do believe you have to have a certain respect for your audience and they for you. If you don't have a certain respect you've lost your audience from the beginning, which possibly means you have both potentially lost out.

Anyway just my .02 worth

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Blade

I've also had people clean my clock over a post, where they interpreted what I said way differently than was my intent. We are not from the same places, or families, or had the same lifes experiences. Therefore we don't communicate the same way to begin with. Probably communication is a learned behavior, unless it is something you have worked on personally as an adult.

Blade, I think this is really key. All of us come from a different history and context...when you say "buddy" you may mean a friend....when I say "buddy" you better look out. Small stuff, but important.

I think knowing where people come from is critical to really understanding them...especially if you're talking about emotionally charged stuff. Honestly, I've worked on communication (along with other issues) in counseling for years....and I still trip over it almost daily with Scoote....who is someone that I love dearly. If it's still that tricky with someone I love and live with...imagine how challenging it is when the relationship is more distant, or the communication is going out into the universe without benefit of body language and tone.

[Just_G]

Originally Posted by Nat

It sounds like you stumbled across a source of shame for her. If somebody told me I was an aggressive communicator, I would be all ears and want to know more. Or maybe she was being mean to you.

Nat, you hit the nail right on the head! I think that me being honest with her...in a very explanatory way (that's the passive communicator in me..always trying to explain everything..see?) was taken as me being snarky. I hate that it was taken that way, but like Blade said, it is hard to communicate via written word as opposed to spoken word.

One thing that has really helped me to not get defensive in situations like this is that I will read whatever it is in several different ways/tones. Once I do that, I don't have that knee-jerk reaction...instead, I am coming from an understanding place. Not all people do that.

She is the one that told me she doesn't like the way I communicate or respond in conversations...I could have taken that the wrong way and pulled in to my turtle shell; but I didn't. Instead, I have ordered a couple of books on how to communicate better. Even though what she said kind of hurt my feelings, I took it to heart and really thought about it. I am trying to better myself in this area. I am trying to grow from what she told me.

Her reaction to what I said was the complete opposite and she is now in HER turtle shell....still not speaking to me. I guess I should take this for what it is and just keep myself moving forward. If she wants to talk; I now know that I need to handle it with extreme caution. Lesson learned.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Just_G

Nat, you hit the nail right on the head! I think that me being honest with her...in a very explanatory way (that's the passive communicator in me..always trying to explain everything..see?) was taken as me being snarky. I hate that it was taken that way, but like Blade said, it is hard to communicate via written word as opposed to spoken word.

One thing that has really helped me to not get defensive in situations like this is that I will read whatever it is in several different ways/tones. Once I do that, I don't have that knee-jerk reaction...instead, I am coming from an understanding place. Not all people do that.

She is the one that told me she doesn't like the way I communicate or respond in conversations...I could have taken that the wrong way and pulled in to my turtle shell; but I didn't. Instead, I have ordered a couple of books on how to communicate better. Even though what she said kind of hurt my feelings, I took it to heart and really thought about it. I am trying to better myself in this area. I am trying to grow from what she told me.

Her reaction to what I said was the complete opposite and she is now in HER turtle shell....still not speaking to me. I guess I should take this for what it is and just keep myself moving forward. If she wants to talk; I now know that I need to handle it with extreme caution. Lesson learned.

Hi Just G

Given that I don't know your friend or the history or the context or anything else about this conversation, please take this with a gigantic grain of salt.

However, what I see purely from what you've written is that you want to communicate....you're trying to get better at it...you're taking feedback, finding resources.

Her reaction sounds like she doesn't actually want to communicate...even though what she's doing is talking (or writing).

People use words for a whole lot of reasons....communication is one....control is another.

In my family of origin there was a whole lot of talking, and very little actual communication. Words were used to control, to wound, to keep people in their designated roles, etc. I'm really cautious around people who talk but rarely listen, or who can never be wrong. If someone can't say "wow...I didn't realize I was coming across that way"....then I tend to think they're talking for reasons other than communication.

[Just_G]

Originally Posted by JustJo

Hi Just G

Given that I don't know your friend or the history or the context or anything else about this conversation, please take this with a gigantic grain of salt.

However, what I see purely from what you've written is that you want to communicate....you're trying to get better at it...you're taking feedback, finding resources.

Her reaction sounds like she doesn't actually want to communicate...even though what she's doing is talking (or writing).

People use words for a whole lot of reasons....communication is one....control is another.

In my family of origin there was a whole lot of talking, and very little actual communication. Words were used to control, to wound, to keep people in their designated roles, etc. I'm really cautious around people who talk but rarely listen, or who can never be wrong. If someone can't say "wow...I didn't realize I was coming across that way"....then I tend to think they're talking for reasons other than communication.

I never really thought about words being controlling in this situation until I read what you just wrote. I am really learning a lot from what you all have to say, and I really appreciate all the input I am getting.

I think you are absolutely right about using words to control people/situations. I have always cowered and apologized for things I have said...when deep down inside, I knew that my input was neither right or wrong, it was just a discussion, but I felt beat down and that what I had to say didn't matter. Well, what I have to say DOES matter, and I am trying to break out of that shell. Before if she would have asked me which style of communication she used, I would have answered with what she wanted to hear. That would have been sugar coating or worse yet, letting her control how I answered the question. When I think back to some of the heated discussions we got into, I really did feel whipped and she would dominate me and the conversation.

I am starting to say how I think and feel. Perhaps she feels she is losing that control that I KNOW she had over me. I am by no means trying to "win" or "get back" at her by any means. I want to be able to go back and have some of the discussions we had in the past. I think rather than sitting back and not saying anything, or just agreeing with her, I would actually be able to better engage without my thoughts causing a log jam between my mind and my mouth because I feel intimidated.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Just_G

I have always cowered and apologized for things I have said...when deep down inside, I knew that my input was neither right or wrong, it was just a discussion, but I felt beat down and that what I had to say didn't matter. Well, what I have to say DOES matter, and I am trying to break out of that shell. Before if she would have asked me which style of communication she used, I would have answered with what she wanted to hear. That would have been sugar coating or worse yet, letting her control how I answered the question. When I think back to some of the heated discussions we got into, I really did feel whipped and she would dominate me and the conversation.

I am starting to say how I think and feel. Perhaps she feels she is losing that control that I KNOW she had over me. I am by no means trying to "win" or "get back" at her by any means. I want to be able to go back and have some of the discussions we had in the past. I think rather than sitting back and not saying anything, or just agreeing with her, I would actually be able to better engage without my thoughts causing a log jam between my mind and my mouth because I feel intimidated.

Hi Just G

Not sure how I missed this post until today, but amen! This is exactly what I have done (and still do, and did again last night). And, your image of the log jam between mind and mouth is spot on....except for me the log jam is between heart and mind. I can keep talking....I just stop feeling. Once I start feeling intimidated, shut out, ignored or controlled....I stop being emotionally engaged. In a relationship, whether friendship or more intimate, that's deadly.

I totally hear you...and wish I had better answers. If you find some, please share them with me, okay?

I'm dealing with a situation right now in which I feel like a function rather than an appreciated person that counts...and it's killing the emotional connection in the process.

Here's what I'm facing...I'm told to say what I want, what I feel, what I think...and when I do the result is that I'm either ignored or showered with anger. If I don't say what I want/feel/think....then it's my fault that I don't get what I need. If I do say what I need....it doesn't happen anyway and I get the deluge of fury as well.

For me, this isn't about communication....it's about control. As long as I stay in my appointed role and don't express any needs or desires...then all is well. If I express unhappiness, need, insecurity, fear, hurt, dissatisfaction, frustration...anything that is difficult for the other to deal with...then it is suddenly all my fault. Meanwhile....the others in the situation are allowed to express their needs/wants and have them met.

I end up in the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation in which I cannot get my needs met, and I do not count. It's a trap....an emotional one rather than a physical one....but still a trap.

Here's the irony...all of that can be going on underneath a mantra of "you're my dearest friend" or "I love you" or "I'm saying this because I care about you" or "fill in the blank." But the subtext is "shut up about what you need/want/feel."

And...I do shut up. I also shut down.