"Becoming Chaz"

[BullDog]

I didn't watch the documentary, but I just watched a 4 minute clip from him being on Letterman, and to me it reinforced the stuff the author was talking about from the link Thinker provided.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31749_16...-10391698.html

Maybe he is going through a bravado phase. When Letterman asked him if his interactions with women were different he said, well I think I frustrate my girlfriend more. I can be an "A." I can be insensitive. I can be a guy.


WTF?

[Heart]

The article Thinker linked to is interesting and I really appreciate the author's framework, especially as it relates to sexism and stereotypes, but the narrative is far broader and deeper than the issue of Chaz's, or Brandon Teena's, or any one person's transition, coming out process, or identity. The narrative really is: Identity in the Context of a Sexist and Misogynistic Culture. It is a shared narrative, one that impacts all of us and that we are all responsible for.

And to be fair to Chazz, I believe I heard him say that he has always felt himself to be male (as opposed to becoming male), and even said that his relationship with his gf was never a "lesbian" relationship. It's difficult to hold Chaz alone accountable for the narrative/framework imposed upon all of us by sexism and misogyny.

Plus... I continue to find the use of the word "cis" (as used in the author's essay) to be problematic and have sexist/misogynistic implications when applied across the board to reference non-trans people. Like stereotypes, it's a simplification that upon closer examination, doesn't hold up well.
But maybe I'm hair-splitting.

[Quintease]

I've noticed that a lot of transmen feel a lot more understanding of men after transition, to the point of being sympathetic. Their libido's go up, they physically feel bigger, they start to realise what an aggressive world men live in, and they have to balance this new realisation with their understanding of the world they lived in before they became male.

What transmen lack, that perhaps Chaz forgot in his excitement, is the sense of entitlement that bio-boys are fed from birth. Women aren't supposed to enjoy sex, women are supposed to say no. Sex is the male arena. Even without the social pressures we expect, a female animal of any sort would take care who she slept with in case she became pregnant to the wrong male.

Hopefully when things have calmed down somewhat, Chaz will look back at some of the things he said in the public sphere (in fact he may have already done so), and acknowledge the many way he could have been misunderstood.

I'm really glad that everyone is talking about Chaz, it makes me happy.

[Quintease]

Originally Posted by June

It is pretty alarming to read "...and I tune my girlfriend out because I am not interested in gossip anymore"

That is something I have heard coming out of the mouths of a few transguys, as well as read on online forums. My bf is also less interested in chitchat and gossip now that he's transitioned, which makes me wonder if there really is something going on. Maybe the hormones do make boys less verbal, which in turn would make them less interested in non-essential talk. I'm guessing too that Chaz, being in his adolescent stage at the time the documentary was made, pretty much behaved like most adolescents do - Self-absorbed, blustery and impatient.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by Quintease

That is something I have heard coming out of the mouths of a few transguys, as well as read on online forums. My bf is also less interested in chitchat and gossip now that he's transitioned, which makes me wonder if there really is something going on. Maybe the hormones do make boys less verbal, which in turn would make them less interested in non-essential talk. I'm guessing too that Chaz, being in his adolescent stage at the time the documentary was made, pretty much behaved like most adolescents do - Self-absorbed, blustery and impatient.

I am guilty of finding myself less interested in chit chat; however, that's not exclusive to chit chat from women.

My "becoming" occurred (socially) at a poker table in a truck stop.....almost always all-men-all-the-time. And lemme tell ya.....some of those guys could do a serious amount of gabbing about nothin' much. There were times I had that "nails on a chalkboard" reaction and had to take a little table break.

So, yeah, I find anything that is said along the lines of "women this" and "women that" to be sexist. There aren't a whole lot of qualities, gifts, annoying traits, etc... that belong solely to --insert gender ID here--.

[BullDog]

I am a woman and I have zero interest in "gabbing," chit chat or gossip. Actually I'm pretty quiet and not a big talker. (may come as a big surprise to some here ) I know of plenty of men who just go on and on about nothing as well as women. In fact for me, one of the trademarks of men's entitlement is them talking on and on. Not all men do it and not all women engage in "chatter." It's sexist to characterize women's talk that way.

[Corkey]

I have no interest in "chit chat", but then I don't talk much at home either, I'm the one listening for the most part. Short n sweet is my motto, folks have less time these days to just keep muttering non stop. It really hit a nerve he was so short with his gf, I wanted to Butch slap him on being a jackass in the kitchen.

[princessbelle]

Thank you Thinker for posting that link. Was a great read!!!!

A couple of things stand out to me in the documentary. One is when he was at the FtM meeting and he said something to the effect of (not a quote)....i don't have a lot to say because i'm new to this and i am learning. I thought that was commendable and basically was saying just because i'm famous don't mean i have any more to add...i'm just learning my way.

Another thing is, as far as i can tell, he did not edit this documentary. I realize he did give his approval but he was just the focus and not the one that put it all together. I agree some of the comments and references should not have made the final cut.

This is not to excuse any negative thoughts or words that were seen. I saw them too. I felt that tinge of icky when he said a few things that i knew would not be accepted in most of the community. If he were on this site i'm sure he would screw up and get called on it like we all are.

But, i still think he at least is out there and i applaud him for that. Even though he said he could not have hid it all and choose to come out under his own control, he didn't have to make the documentary and take us through his surgery and some very personal things that he did.

It certainly wasn't perfect, IMO, but it was at least a raising of awareness, a direction, a thought, a glass dome into one person's life going through a transition that lots and lots of people around the globe at least got a general definition of what FtM even is.

personal note: My 77 year old southern baptist republican mother watched it. Her words were "I had no idea that people felt they lived in the wrong body. That they felt their physical gender was not who they were on the inside". This opened up a discussion with us. It was an open door to try and explain some things about my community. It was wonderful and would not have happened if she hadn't seen something like this from someone that most everyone knows.

I hope, at the very least, it will get people talking, thinking and discussing.

[Linus]

I think one of the things that the doc does poorly is maintain the idea that T is the cause of all the anger, frustration, "personality changes", etc. Personality stays the same but we tend to attribute it to T when in fact it was always there. We just ignored it or downplayed it.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Linus

I think one of the things that the doc does poorly is maintain the idea that T is the cause of all the anger, frustration, "personality changes", etc. Personality stays the same but we tend to attribute it to T when in fact it was always there. We just ignored it or downplayed it.

Yeah and unfortunately Chaz is reinforcing these ideas in his interviews.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Linus

I think one of the things that the doc does poorly is maintain the idea that T is the cause of all the anger, frustration, "personality changes", etc. Personality stays the same but we tend to attribute it to T when in fact it was always there. We just ignored it or downplayed it.

I totally agree. I really hate that he *went there* about chalking up temper tantrums to the T.

[The Oopster]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

That really bothered me too. I have to say that when I got on my full dose of T, my basic personality and the way I interact with people didn't change much. [COLOR="Black"]I am still me, still careful about how my words and deeds affect people, and I have made it a priority to not become self-absorbed into my transition.[/COLOR] Whatever my friends and family are going through, I still try to be engaged in their lives and a source of support for them. I have always been sensitive to the feelings and needs of others, and that hasn't changed.

Originally Posted by Linus

I think one of the things that the doc does poorly is maintain the idea that T is the cause of all the anger, frustration, "personality changes", etc. Personality stays the same but we tend to attribute it to T when in fact it was always there. We just ignored it or downplayed it.

I believe our sense of character stays the same but testorone is a drug and hormone and it does have side effects. But how these manifest in each individual is different and irregardless of how they manifest it doesn't excuse a persons behavior.

I know if I take my shot and I haven't eaten or if I take it too late in the day I will have a similiar effect to drinking several pots of expresso. The couple times i had this reaction I laid low until it passed, took note and I don't take my shot on an empty stomach nor at night. I knew i was on the edge and knew to stay clear of people.

Otherwise it has had the opposite effect on me. I am way calmer and mellower then I ever was. I am far less emotional. This doesn't mean I still don't have them they just aren't as easily seen. I use to bawl when watching extreme makeover home edtion, I now may have a tear or two well up. I am still touched but how it manifests in me is different.

I use to have extreme hormonal mood swing and actually what I called the pms flue and all that is gone. When things happen that would have put me in a tizzy i'm not really anymore. Do I believe some it is due to personal growth? yes but some of it is due to the change in my hormones.

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

As for some of his sexist comments about women and men in general, and his seeming assumption that being an asshole is just a male trait, those are things that irritate me because I know they aren't necessarily true. They aren't true for me! I keep thinking, and I don't want to be lumped into that stereotype. It is an ugly one and it doesn't have to be that way for men. My father is nothing like that. He is a kind and gentle soul who is very other-centered. I get these traits from him. I was raised by a father who isn't a sexist, self-absorbed pig. A lot of the assumptions that those are male traits ignores that fact that these are social constructs.

I didn't like the general stereotypes also. What is really hard is this is an account of Chaz's transition and not a documentary on transition in general. So I do see where this is his experience. What is hard is the fact that it does reinforce common misconceptions. Also that most people won't say "oh this is just his experience" They will lump it into a one size fits all.

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Another thing is, as far as i can tell, he did not edit this documentary. I realize he did give his approval but he was just the focus and not the one that put it all together. I agree some of the comments and references should not have made the final cut.

I hope, at the very least, it will get people talking, thinking and discussing.

I guess I don't know what the complete role of a producer is but I would think that the producer would get a say in what goes in and what doesn't go in. On his facebook "Becoming Chaz" page he is listed as the producer. You are correct in that he isn't listed as an editor but wouldn't a producer still have a fair amount of say?

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Quintease

That is something I have heard coming out of the mouths of a few transguys, as well as read on online forums. My bf is also less interested in chitchat and gossip now that he's transitioned, which makes me wonder if there really is something going on. Maybe the hormones do make boys less verbal, which in turn would make them less interested in non-essential talk. I'm guessing too that Chaz, being in his adolescent stage at the time the documentary was made, pretty much behaved like most adolescents do - Self-absorbed, blustery and impatient.

My BUTCH partner has never been interested in chit-chat--So you're saying there was a time, pre-transition when your BF liked the sewing circle? *just curious.

[apretty]

Why doesn't Chaz work--Am I the only a-hole who doesn't get his finances and thinks that "finances" are a super-relevent part of the picture?

He had money to be an addict for 10 years and, according to the documentary he laid on the couch for a year(s) playing video games...

What does he do besides the trans-stuff?

*Again, curious.

[apretty]

And OH MY God--That house he's living in. If he couldn't afford his surgery why not sell that house? Downsize like a "regular" person would choose to do.

I wouldn't care so much if this was supposed fiction but it's being billed as a documentary.

And why is his sponsor paying for his surgery? A sponsor that pays for stuff is *so* inappropriate.

Also, it's bizarre to me that Chaz has a sports-bra tan line. I have never been with any butch/transperson or otherwise that would go out in a sports bra--In the sun! I am sure that I'm not saying this right but it seems to me that there are so many incongruences with his presenting "maleness" and his ease and comfortability with his female-parts. --It's like I blinked and missed that part of the documentary.

Also, has the depression been looked at? Is the chest surgery supposed to fix the depression (lying on the couch for a couple of years seems like depression to me)? And how can you live with an addict if your sobriety is at all important to you?

And why don't these people have jobs!

...They do have cute dogs, however. (But who brings a DOG to a doctor's appointment!)

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by apretty

Also, it's bizarre to me that Chaz has a sports-bra tan line. I have never been with any butch/transperson or otherwise that would go out in a sports bra--In the sun! I am sure that I'm not saying this right but it seems to me that there are so many incongruences with his presenting "maleness" and his ease and comfortability with his female-parts. --It's like I blinked and missed that part of the documentary.

Just wanted to talk about this part of your post. I originally raised an eyebrow myself when it came to the sports bra tan lines, but then checked myself. I do know some transfolks who are not as dysphoric as others or some who are barely dysphoric at all. Some transguys might have a male identity and want to have top surgery, but don't feel the same kind of nausea around seeing or exposing their chest pre-op that others feel. We have to be careful not to put all transfolks into the same bucket, so to speak. Extreme dysphoria doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with being trans. Also, I don't think transfolks should be judged on how they bind or if they bind at all, or what they happen to wear/expose etc. It's a bit like transwomen who never have bottom surgery, but who may not entirely exclude their natal sex organs during sex (though it's evidently a different experience on estrogen than without). Or transguys who are ok with using the sex organs they were born with during sex, while others like myself can't stomach the thought of doing so themselves. Everyone's different and I don't think it's possible to judge one's "transness" based on that.

I think what confused me mainly was that Chaz said that since puberty he had suffered a lot of dysphoria and still did up until his op, and that didn't seem to go with the whole tan line thing. But at the end of the day that's really his business and not mine, and all I have are my own feelings as a point of reference and not his.

Anyways, that's my two cents on the sports bra tan line issue.

[theoddz]

Originally Posted by apretty

Why doesn't Chaz work--Am I the only a-hole who doesn't get his finances and thinks that "finances" are a super-relevent part of the picture?

He had money to be an addict for 10 years and, according to the documentary he laid on the couch for a year(s) playing video games...

What does he do besides the trans-stuff?

*Again, curious.

I imagine that he got a nice advance on a book deal he made when he publically announced his decision to transition. My guess is that that is probably how he intended to repay his friends for the money they loaned him for his top surgery.

I don't know what he actually does for a living, either, and like you, I've been curious about these same questions that you ask. I, normally, don't make issue about the financial affairs of others, but money is a HUGE issue and sometimes OBSTACLE to others with transitioning. If Chaz is going to hold himself up to the public eye with his transitioning process, then yes, I do think that the financial aspects of transition and his own financial circumstance, insomuch as what he does for a living (and not the details of just how much he makes at doing whatever it is he does) should be addressed. In other words, yes I think it's altogether fair to ask just what he does for a living/support himself.

To me, this is totally proper and a relevent question. Thanks for bringing it up again, Dressy.

Theo .....on the Blackberry, so please excuse any typos!!!

[DapperButch]

My partner and I saw Chaz today at a trans conference we attended. It is a conference in Philly that I attend every year for both professional and personal reasons.

Chaz mentioned how crazy insane it is the privlege that he started to feel after being read as male. He said he was invisible as a masculine female and that it is amazing how that changed after he started being read as male.

He was also taken to task by an audience member for his comments others could read as sexist in the documentary.

Transfolks also asked that he make sure to clarify with the media as often as possible that this is HIS experience.

All the things I have heard people say here, I heard said there to him.

I really liked him and found him to be very, VERY genuine. I ended up caving and bought his book and got him to sign it.

tf and I tried to video record it on her phone but the phone kept cutting out over and over again b/c it is a new phone and we couldn't figure it out. Subsequently, we have an hour of footage of short clips (we finally got it down after a while though).

She needs to get something from work next week to download it to her computer before she can upload it to youtube. I will post the many clips next week.

P.S. Was anyone else there?

[Daywalker]

I'd be interested in viewing a Study that tracks brain changes in folks
who take T Shots ~ before and after; which areas seem more stimulated,
if there are areas more active after the T, broken down by factors that
include geographical stats, emotional predispositions, etc.

[Linus]

I'm having the worst time doing quotes with my iPad. Anyways, I do prefer Lisa Ling's piece on trans individuals for "Our America". I think that was far more informative on a non-celebrity basis as to what it's like.