A question for the Femmes

[macele]

justjo gives great advice.

i'm not femme but i'd like to share this ... bottom line ...
we only need money for health and daily living expenses ...
the rest is a luxury ...
the rest is love.

you are special. you deserve. keep going forward.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by macele

justjo gives great advice.

i'm not femme but i'd like to share this ... bottom line ...
we only need money for health and daily living expenses ...
the rest is a luxury ...
the rest is love.

you are special. you deserve. keep going forward.

I'm gonna be the buzz kill here cause I have to be honest, it's ok to want to have money for other things, like traveling, events, eating out, dancing, a long drive for the weekend. It's ok for ANYONE to say hey, this isn't gonna work because we lead different lives, so no not for all people is money for just living, health for some it's about fun, trips, and dates...

This thread reminds me of your other thread drew

"Femmes: How do you like to be treated on a date?"


Which the whole premise about dating a Femme properly takes money...

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I'm gonna be the buzz kill here cause I have to be honest, it's ok to want to have money for other things, like traveling, events, eating out, dancing, a long drive for the weekend. It's ok for ANYONE to say hey, this isn't gonna work because we lead different lives, so no not for all people is money for just living, health for some it's about fun, trips, and dates...

This thread reminds me of your other thread drew

"Femmes: How do you like to be treated on a date?"


Which the whole premise about dating a Femme properly takes money...

Like I said, I operated under that assumption for years, that dating a Femme properly takes money. I have had so many people tell me differently, that I was beginning to change my mind and think that maybe I could date someone and find a partner even though I don't have much money. When I got shot down, partially for that very reason, it messed with my head.

Oh, and the reason I am asking Femmes is because they are my dating pool, not butches and transguys.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Like I said, I operated under that assumption for years, that dating a Femme properly takes money. I have had so many people tell me differently, that I was beginning to change my mind and think that maybe I could date someone and find a partner even though I don't have much money. When I got shot down, partially for that very reason, it messed with my head.

Oh, and the reason I am asking Femmes is because they are my dating pool, not butches and transguys.

I wasn't talking about *dating* them I was more opening up the convo for their experiences too since we ALL date regardless of how we identify or our monetary situation.

Anyways, good luck with the dating, I think the more you put yourself out there and the more you date the bigger the chance you will find the right one for you..

Sometimes it takes kissing a lot of froggies before you find your

Good Luck!!

[Thamca74]

FYI- It is true that money does matter. We can all say that it doesn't but in this country money= security. With that said- some of the very best and most memorable dates I have had did not cost any money. Dates to the lake for a picnic (maybe corny sounding) but very romantic.
I think that if you give it some time and patience the right woman will come along that can see past the anxiety and see you for the great person you are and what you have to offer. Just relax and let it happen. One thing I often have to remind myself. Is that if someone you think you want doesn't work out- It means it wasn't meant to be and there is someone BETTER meant for you.. I struggle with that some times. I want everything to be in my time.. Thats just not how it works ... Hope this helps. Just my take on things. Good luck!!

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by Thamca74

FYI- It is true that money does matter. We can all say that it doesn't but in this country money= security. With that said- some of the very best and most memorable dates I have had did not cost any money. Dates to the lake for a picnic (maybe corny sounding) but very romantic.
I think that if you give it some time and patience the right woman will come along that can see past the anxiety and see you for the great person you are and what you have to offer. Just relax and let it happen. One thing I often have to remind myself. Is that if someone you think you want doesn't work out- It means it wasn't meant to be and there is someone BETTER meant for you.. I struggle with that some times. I want everything to be in my time.. Thats just not how it works ... Hope this helps. Just my take on things. Good luck!!

You know, my short term financial stability isn't great, in that I don't have a decent income. I am quite poor. However, some day when my parents and my dad's sister (my aunt) pass, I will inherit a sum of money with which I will be able to buy a house outright and live comfortably for the rest of my life. So I do, in a sense, have a retirement plan, as much as I don't want to think of it, because I love my folks and my aunt very much and don't want to lose them.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Thamca74

FYI- It is true that money does matter. We can all say that it doesn't but in this country money= security.

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

You know, my short term financial stability isn't great, in that I don't have a decent income. I am quite poor. However, some day when my parents and my dad's sister (my aunt) pass, I will inherit a sum of money with which I will be able to buy a house outright and live comfortably for the rest of my life. So I do, in a sense, have a retirement plan, as much as I don't want to think of it, because I love my folks and my aunt very much and don't want to lose them.

You know what is funny, Drew? When I read the first line of Thamca's post my thought was....well, Drew's income is A LOT more secure than my own! I could get fired or laid off. My subsequent unemployment could run out and I could have no income.

Your income is MORE SECURE than mine b/c you know for sure that you will keep getting yours. I don't even know if social security is going to be around by the time I retire. People that are already receiving social security (or social security disability), will most likely not lose it or face a reduction.

So a lack of financial security? I think not!

Keep on keepin' on my friend. It is not what you make, but how you manage what you do make.

ETA: When it comes to your mental health, you know if you are ready better than anyone else. I would much prefer to be with a partner who is aware of their mental health issues and managing them, than a partner who may have less severe mental health issues but has no awareness and does not take accountability for them. Good luck.

[kittygrrl]

I agree with the Lady Snow, it usually does take some money to date properly..but I will say that money isn't everything..maybe in the beginning it may be of some importance but in the end it means very little if what you have together is beautiful...the only thing i have to say about money (in a relationship) is you don't have to have tons but if you move in together at least one of you has to be good at managing whatever you make between the two of you..and for that matter just because you don't make gobs of money doesn't mean you don't manage what you do have..if you do then i think this is not a real issue..

If your therapist is telling you, you are ready and you are feeling positive enough to try; put yourself out there and fly..i think you will be surprised how good that will feel..even though no doubt you'll have some issues here & there..its worth it..

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Like I said, I operated under that assumption for years, that dating a Femme properly takes money. I have had so many people tell me differently, that I was beginning to change my mind and think that maybe I could date someone and find a partner even though I don't have much money. When I got shot down, partially for that very reason, it messed with my head.

Oh, and the reason I am asking Femmes is because they are my dating pool, not butches and transguys.

Last year, I "dated" a girl who showered me with things. Flowers, dinners, movies and even surprised me with a cruise. She was generous but everything came with a price tag in the form of "well, I bought you such & such." The breaking point happened when she OPENLY expressed her anger b/c a guy friend of mine was messing with me. Her jealousy cost her what we had and if it had not, the guilt trips about her spending would have.

I am now committed to a college student who works part time while going to school. The time we share is restricted to what we can afford; sometimes he will pay & sometimes I will. If we do not have money to spend, we stay home and we do so happily. Thank God he likes my cooking-lol.

I am an ultra femme in every sense of the term. But, to win me over, you may as well set aside the credit cards. Treat me like a lady-carry my things to the car so I do not have to; make sure the trash is taken out; help me with my coat and shoes. The best things anyone can do for me are pampering me-foot massages, brushing my hair, touching me sweetly "just because."

Clean house for me-I would love that. Watch the kids so I can crash early if I have a headache. Make my life easier and you have done more for me than any expensive trinket can.

[christie]

Drew -

I think other posts preceeding mine offer some really sound advice and perspectives...

IMO, money, or lack of, is just not an acceptable reason to think you are unworthy. Like many others, I don't expect to have everything provided for me - quite the opposite, actually. I am rather insistent that I pay my own way, and when I am so inclined, I will pay for dinner, tickets, drinks, trips... whatever it is.

I've never had the expectation that the butch pays. WTF is that? Its lovely to be "treated" once in a while, but as Laney mentioned, it really is the little things and EFFORT that mean so much more than what can be purchased.

For the PTSD? I don't believe this makes you "un-dateable" - its actually refreshing to hear of one disclosing such a vulnerability. I'd much rather have one be aware of their issues and be honest about such than to find out much later. The way I see it, you are ahead of the curve!!

Hang in there. Scoobs is correct in taking away the dating expectations and getting to know someone as friends first. Sage advice!

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Hi ladies,

I need some advice. I hope this is ok to ask.

I have recently been contemplating dating again. My therapist and some friends and family have all encouraged me to do so. For a long while I was unwilling to even think about it because I have a panic disorder and PTSD for which I am on disability and frankly what I get from my SSI checks every month is paltry. I haven't felt that I am emotionally stable enough to date because of my panic attacks, and not good date/relationship material because I can't work and am basically poor.

That said, I do have a lot going for me in other ways. I am a very kind, compassionate guy. I am have a big heart. I am well mannered, charming, sweet, and I love to goof around. I love to read and learn new things every day. I work on my issues and deal with them honestly. Even though I don't have a lot of money for expensive dates, I do lavish my dates with attention and care. Many people in my life tell me to go out and date again.

That all being said, I recently took a big risk and asked a Femme friend of mine for a date. She rejected me, and the reasons basically have to do with my lack of emotional stability and the fact that I am not financially secure and stable. Man, does that take the wind out of my sails!

So my question is this: Should I even try? Is my PTSD and panic disorder, and my being on disability something that makes me a potentially bad date/partner? Some help and advice would be nice before I decide to really put myself out there again.


Thanks ladies!


Drew

Congratulations on taking that first step, Drew!

I have to concur with those who suggest making sure that YOU are ready to move back into the world of dating. It's a crazy world and one that seems to be like a game of double dutch, that seems to fly by and where you have to try to find the perfect moment to slip in.

I also have to piggyback onto what Scoobs said that her 'no' had absolutely nothing to do with you. For whatever reason, whether it's what she told you or not, she didn't feel fully comfortable but that's a reflection of her and not you.

No biggie.

As many have said, we all have our issues. The thing we need to concentrate on is not how others are managing their issues, but how we manage our own.

Personally, I'd be open to meeting a partner that had bushfuls of money. Why? Because I like it and because money does equal security for me, but that goes back to my childhood and being hungry and homeless with my mom. Again, MY stuff. Not yours or anyone else's. Does that mean that I only look for the thickness of a guy's wallet? No. Because a guy who makes a million a year can live beyond his means just like a guy making minimum wage. It's how you manage it that counts.

My mom was paranoid schizophrenic and a former partner of mine had a variety of mental conditions, including PTSD. More than once, I awoke to her choking me, thinking I was an enemy. Again, MY stuff. Does that mean that I would never date anyone with an acknowledged condition? Nope. Now, if I recognized behaviors and symptoms in someone and they denied it or refused to accept it or to receive medical confirmation, that would wave a whole parade of red flags for me and make the answer a very easy 'thank you but no thank you'. Does it mean that I might give it a good, long thought if I went on a couple of dates with someone and I really started to like them (back to the acknowledged conditions)? Yes. I would have to measure that 'like' that I felt against my past experiences and my own personal fears. If that case came about, I have no idea what I would do. It's one of those 'have to be there' kind of things, I think.

We all have our stuff and our fears and that is what will keep others from proceeding with you. Their fears. Fear tends to keep us safe but it can make you miss out on a lot of awesome experiences and wonderful people too.

If you are up for it, I say keep sticking your toe in the water. You're a great guy! Eventually, I think you'll get a nibble.

[SuddenlyWestFemme]

Originally Posted by Gemme

My mom was paranoid schizophrenic and a former partner of mine had a variety of mental conditions, including PTSD. More than once, I awoke to her choking me, thinking I was an enemy. Again, MY stuff.

I don't mean to change the subject as I completely agree with what you said Gemme in so many ways. But I'd love if you'd explain what you meant by your waking up being choked because your partner thought you were the enemy as being 'your stuff.' I'm sure I'm misunderstanding. It sounds a bit like you are saying that it is your stuff that you were being abused (even if it was not intentional abuse and came from PTSD, being choked is being abused and it doesn't seem like it could be 'your stuff' even if it wasn't your partners fault. Can you clarify?

Of course, you may have meant it gave you some stuff after the relationship was over. Or because of your mom, you had issues and couldn't stay? I'm not sure and I'd love to hear more if it doesn't end up changing the topic.

And back on topic - getting to know someone is the best way to find out if their issues (as has been mentioned - we all have issues - lol) mesh with your issues. So don't worry about the having 'issues' part. And being friends first is really sound advice. It gives you time to see how you interact without all the baggage and insecurity that sometimes surrounds dating. And rejection by a friend just seems so much more pleasant (although still a bummer). But friends first is no guarantee either. I do admit that some of my friends would be lousy matches for me and yet are great friends.

[mariamma]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Like I said, I operated under that assumption for years, that dating a Femme properly takes money. I have had so many people tell me differently, that I was beginning to change my mind and think that maybe I could date someone and find a partner even though I don't have much money. When I got shot down, partially for that very reason, it messed with my head.

Oh, and the reason I am asking Femmes is because they are my dating pool, not butches and transguys.

Then I must not be a femme. Love, respect, honesty and a sex drive are my top needs. And proximity. If someone needs to be pampered and taken care of, then her being honest about her needs is good.
As for the other thing, I'm a nurse and would not know what to do if my lover had a panic attack. Mostly because it's an individual thing. I do know that I can learn and work with a friend/lover who was prone to panic attacks. If that's a deal breaker for her, then again, good thing she is being honest.
Personally, I have given up on looking for love. I'm poor, have 3 kids, am missing teeth and most importantly...I am too much for all my ex'es. Yes, their pivotal relationships are with me. Yes, I break up with them (except my first gf and bf) because they regress. Yes, there was love but it turned bitter and I can't tolerate them anymore. I love deep and hard. Maybe it's better that I not love randomly.
You feel like you want more and maybe you're ready for love or companionship. If this is the case, wait for a serious love who can be with you without $$$ and understands how to relate with you and what you need from her when you're panicking. Wait for what you need in your life.

[Viola]

I agree with you here, I think that's so sad if someone is only for butches who has money. I mean that's cold.

I hope I'm doing this right in how to respond I click on the quote thing...

I saw some where on this butch femme planet something to do with - friendship first and then into a relationship and that really is awesome cause this idea of -- (trying to find words here) -- maybe its performance that I dont' like... For that's not real but exchange.

Like example money, um, then maybe that femme was only thinking of herself and to be _________... I don't know word...

wait maybe the word is prostitute, I don't know, but its more of an exchange then a relationship,

if a person is only for a butch with money is that then like an exchange of propperty...

I guess you were saying about needs, um, isn't needs like apart of a relationship, instead of like how I read about that femme only wanted money, yes money is a need but something doesn't set me right here, when that femme only wants a rich butch...

I don't know... am I making anysense kind of?

I mean yes I have needs, like ok I'm extremely a spiritual person and I need time in spirituality and it would be awesome to spend spirituality with a butch, yes., ok, but that sounds in a relationship right?

vs what I heard of that femme wanting a rich butch; how is that a relationship, or am I missing something, I don't know...

it just doesn't sound like a relationship but sounds more like, what can the butch do for the femme, and that's I don't know... Ok I'm getting long winded...

to some this up, is it exchange or a relationship?

sue

Originally Posted by mariamma

Then I must not be a femme. Love, respect, honesty and a sex drive are my top needs. And proximity. If someone needs to be pampered and taken care of, then her being honest about her needs is good.
As for the other thing, I'm a nurse and would not know what to do if my lover had a panic attack. Mostly because it's an individual thing. I do know that I can learn and work with a friend/lover who was prone to panic attacks. If that's a deal breaker for her, then again, good thing she is being honest.
Personally, I have given up on looking for love. I'm poor, have 3 kids, am missing teeth and most importantly...I am too much for all my ex'es. Yes, their pivotal relationships are with me. Yes, I break up with them (except my first gf and bf) because they regress. Yes, there was love but it turned bitter and I can't tolerate them anymore. I love deep and hard. Maybe it's better that I not love randomly.
You feel like you want more and maybe you're ready for love or companionship. If this is the case, wait for a serious love who can be with you without $$$ and understands how to relate with you and what you need from her when you're panicking. Wait for what you need in your life.

[Viola]

Ok I responded with this post below thinking it'lll be with this other post along with another post, but that didn't happen., so sorry about this how this looks confusing.. I think I'm not responding correctly... Not sure how to edit after words...

Originally Posted by Sue

I agree with you here, I think that's so sad if someone is only for butches who has money. I mean that's cold.

I hope I'm doing this right in how to respond I click on the quote thing...

I saw some where on this butch femme planet something to do with - friendship first and then into a relationship and that really is awesome cause this idea of -- (trying to find words here) -- maybe its performance that I dont' like... For that's not real but exchange.

Like example money, um, then maybe that femme was only thinking of herself and to be _________... I don't know word...

wait maybe the word is prostitute, I don't know, but its more of an exchange then a relationship,

if a person is only for a butch with money is that then like an exchange of propperty...

I guess you were saying about needs, um, isn't needs like apart of a relationship, instead of like how I read about that femme only wanted money, yes money is a need but something doesn't set me right here, when that femme only wants a rich butch...

I don't know... am I making anysense kind of?

I mean yes I have needs, like ok I'm extremely a spiritual person and I need time in spirituality and it would be awesome to spend spirituality with a butch, yes., ok, but that sounds in a relationship right?

vs what I heard of that femme wanting a rich butch; how is that a relationship, or am I missing something, I don't know...

it just doesn't sound like a relationship but sounds more like, what can the butch do for the femme, and that's I don't know... Ok I'm getting long winded...

to some this up, is it exchange or a relationship?

sue

[Passionaria]

Hey Drew,
What comes to my mind reading your post is do "you" feel ready? In your heart are you feeling strong enough to surf the waves of dating? Weather it goes well or leads to more, can you feel OK inside yourself at this time with what ever happens?

Rather than making official dates, maybe a gentler approach could be establishing close intimate friendships with femmes that you want to know better, and let it unfold naturally. Go dutch and have fun and get your social feet planted again. That's where it all starts anyway. Baby steps?

From what I have seen (and forgive me here) there are a lot of people "out there" who probably shouldn't be dating for one emotional reason or another. The fact that you are capable of honest introspection and questioning says a lot in your favor, to me.

hugz~

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by Passionaria

Hey Drew,
What comes to my mind reading your post is do "you" feel ready? In your heart are you feeling strong enough to surf the waves of dating? Weather it goes well or leads to more, can you feel OK inside yourself at this time with what ever happens?

Rather than making official dates, maybe a gentler approach could be establishing close intimate friendships with femmes that you want to know better, and let it unfold naturally. Go dutch and have fun and get your social feet planted again. That's where it all starts anyway. Baby steps?

From what I have seen (and forgive me here) there are a lot of people "out there" who probably shouldn't be dating for one emotional reason or another. The fact that you are capable of honest introspection and questioning says a lot in your favor, to me.

hugz~

Thank you. I just want to date and meet people. I have just not been sure if I am someone that Femmes would find datable given my issues, hence this thread. Thanks for the encouragement!

[EnderD_503]

Not femme either, but I do think it depends on the circles you move in as far as the money thing. If you move in queer circles that are largely made up of people who make a certain kind of living, it's quite likely that they'll expect to date someone who also makes a similar amount as they do.

If you're around working class people, people who are below the poverty line etc. "dating" and relationships are going to look very different. Not every femme is going to expect you or want you to be what middle and upper class people call "financially stable." Some will, some won't.

I think emotional stability is more important than financial stability. But it sounds like you're working on that aspect of your life, and those close to you are noticing by encouraging you to start dating again. So I would see that as a positive sign in itself and go for it, if you feel up to it. Don't be discouraged if someone has different monetary values than you do. Just look elsewhere. Not everyone sees the world the same way, or dating/relationships/fuckbuddying the same way.

[SuddenlyWestFemme]

Originally Posted by Passionaria

Hey Drew,
What comes to my mind reading your post is do "you" feel ready? In your heart are you feeling strong enough to surf the waves of dating? Weather it goes well or leads to more, can you feel OK inside yourself at this time with what ever happens?

I think this is great advice. And something to reevaluate after a date or two as well. I have been single for over a year and during that time I stepped into the dating pool twice thinking I was ready. Low and behold after a couple of dates, I realized I was so NOT ready. But I wouldn't have known that I wasn't ready if I hadn't stepped into dating. So go for it and then evaluate how you are feeling around the whole thing.

And please don't worry too much about how Femmes will perceive you or what we will want from you - we all want different things. Some want financial security in a partner others want someone who can make them laugh regardless of income. Some are drawn to those who have emotionally hard times and some want to date those who have been through their ups and downs but are at a pretty even place. There is just no way to tell until you start dating. There was a time when financial security in a partner was important to me. I didn't have faith that I could be the primary breadwinner and I didn't want to raise my kids poor since that is how I grew up. But now I am the main breadwinner for me and my kids so that is less important. I know that I can do it on my own and I can't travel much anyway as I have kids in school so it is just less important. I am the same person, but my desires have changed. Make sense?

Go out and have fun if you are ready and can handle the rejection that inevitable comes along with dating (that is truly the hardest thing not to take personally, but it is rarely personal!). And remember that a few rejections doesn't mean that is all there is out there (another hard thing to do!).

Kind regards,
SuddenlyWest