Tristan Taormino - loves butch girls

[Tawse]

For me the term 'girl' is yicky for butches or other masculine minded persons.. Could just be that the more masculine minded friends of mine all cringe when "girl" is used to refer to them.

As for the generalization - if we sterilize and PC everything - then it loses it's flow IMO. I don't take her to be defining me, I take her to be defining what she encompasses as butch. I get her point. If it doesn't apply to me, I move along. I don't expect the world to use PC lingo all the time. This may make me the rebel, and I'm ok with that. I don't want all of my literature to read like a legal document.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Tawse

For me the term 'girl' is yicky for butches or other masculine minded persons.. Could just be that the more masculine minded friends of mine all cringe when "girl" is used to refer to them.

As for the generalization - if we sterilize and PC everything - then it loses it's flow IMO. I don't take her to be defining me, I take her to be defining what she encompasses as butch. I get her point. If it doesn't apply to me, I move along. I don't expect the world to use PC lingo all the time. This may make me the rebel, and I'm ok with that. I don't want all of my literature to read like a legal document.

I just need to pipe in and say that the word *girl* can be considered belittling/demeaning to those of us non-butches as well as it is often misapplied to adult women in general. When referring to adult males, the corresponding term of *boy* is rarely applied.

That being said, I don't believe the author of the quote is doing that here (being intentionally demeaning).

I just wanted to point out that the term *girl* is overused in general and can grate on all identities.

[Tawse]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I just need to pipe in and say that the word *girl* can be considered belittling/demeaning to those of us non-butches as well as it is often misapplied to adult women in general.

That being said, I don't believe the author of the quote is doing that here. I just wanted to point out that the term *girl* is overused in general (and can grate on all identities) whereas when referring to adult males, the corresponding term of *boy* is rarely applied.

completely agree! however among my friendship group, I see a large portion of "as long as it's me or mine calling me a girl I'm ok with it".

So either way... I act according to whatever the person wants to be called.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Tawse

completely agree! however among my friendship group, I see a large portion of "as long as it's me or mine calling me a girl I'm ok with it".

So either way... I act according to whatever the person wants to be called.

I'm not referring to any of us who use the term *girl* in an affectionate or personal way b/w lovers and/or friends. Of course, whatever terms float your boat b/w you and your SO or peer group is cool. I am talking about the overuse and misapplication of the term *girl* by society at large when referring to women.

[Hollylane]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I just need to pipe in and say that the word *girl* can be considered belittling/demeaning to those of us non-butches as well as it is often misapplied to adult women in general. When referring to adult males, the corresponding term of *boy* is rarely applied.

That being said, I don't believe the author of the quote is doing that here (being intentionally demeaning).

I just wanted to point out that the term *girl* is overused in general and can grate on all identities.

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I'm not referring to any of us who use the term *girl* in an affectionate or personal way b/w lovers and/or friends. Of course, whatever terms float your boat b/w you and your SO or peer group is cool. I am talking about the overuse and misapplication of the term *girl* by society at large when referring to women.

I completely agree HowSoonIsNow. I love that my Butch calls me her girl, or babygirl. When she says it, it doesn't feel like it is a way to refer to me as less than her, or childlike. It is said with love, and it makes me feel good.

But, I bristle when I hear it used in the manner that you describe. Society has a way of continuing to demean women by using words in a way that makes them sound lesser than men. Being the blunt person that I am, frequently puts me in the position of politely correcting people when they use "girl" in the demeaning way, and patiently explaining why it is not appropriate. I think most people are not even aware that they are doing it, because it is still so engrained in our culture when referring to women.

That's why the universe created people like us, who continue to coax others to evolve(whether they want to or not).

[skeeter_01]

Thanks so much Kobi!! I was just about to ask, who the heck is Tristan Taormino?? LoL!! You saved me the embarrassment of being told (and rightly so!) to go Google her!

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by skeeter_01

Thanks so much Kobi!! I was just about to ask, who the heck is Tristan Taormino?? LoL!! You saved me the embarrassment of being told (and rightly so!) to go Google her!

I should have done a little more research myself LOL.

This quote is from an article she wrote for the Village Voice back in 1999 entitled: Of Butches, Kings, and Masculinity.

The exact quote is the first paragraph of the article and was cleaned up a bit.

" I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger. Girls who have dicks made of flesh and silicone and latex and magic. Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives. Girls who have big cocks, love blowjobs, and like to fuck girls hard. It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

Reading the paragraph within the context helps a lot. LOL. I can be such a freakin doofus.

The entire article is here: http://www.villagevoice.com/1999-10-...d-masculinity/

[WickedFemme]

Originally Posted by skeeter_01

Thanks so much Kobi!! I was just about to ask, who the heck is Tristan Taormino?? LoL!! You saved me the embarrassment of being told (and rightly so!) to go Google her!

lol... I think she would just 'die' if someone didn't know 'who' she is cause of course she's all that. Anywho... I think she wrote that quote years and years ago before the whole gender identity revolution became so widely accepted within the lesbian or queer community.
She really doesn't know any more than any of us about gender identity, etc.. she just chooses to make it her job and her livelihood. I wouldn't look to her as the source of all knowledge. however, I'm sure the vanilla hetero world finds her quite remarkable, which is good cause she is paving the way towards societal acceptance of 'differences'.

[stonewalldog]

I took the "girl" word as playful myself. The hair part reminds me to go get a trim. It's getting a bit shaggy. Otherwise, I thought it was great!

[Dude]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I just need to pipe in and say that the word *girl* can be considered belittling/demeaning to those of us non-butches as well as it is often misapplied to adult women in general. When referring to adult males, the corresponding term of *boy* is rarely applied.

That being said, I don't believe the author of the quote is doing that here (being intentionally demeaning).

I just wanted to point out that the term *girl* is overused in general and can grate on all identities.

I got prickly when I tried to read what that woman wrote.
Something in me screeched to a halt and stopped reading.
So many things just do not fit for butches.
Lword? A show I tried to get excited about.
I saw the pictures of those women and said nope
thats not for you either lol and never watched.
Glamour butch , pretty butch, nope ,not hardly.
I'm fifty and need things to relate to and decided that
story was not for me
somewhere around the second sentence.

Several years back I tried "dating" a (girl) woman
who digs butches but she didn't understand or "get me".
(not a member on this site) She started an event thing
called girl on girl. Um no.
Not only am I so not a girl ,you will never hear me call
anyone that I'm involved with a "girl" or any form of it.
I am also not ok with the term boi or boy in terms of
describing me.
I hated being called a baby butch but way (WAY) back in the
day, I was one.

I prefer the company of women and hope that there are
femmes out there who still prefer the term woman
in describing themselves.
Words are important to me and some have deeper meanings
than others.

(To me) The word woman brings amazing thoughts and feelings,
that girl cant begin to come close to.
The scent of a woman
When I think woman I think captivating , well seasoned
and capable grown up.
I am very literal in my thinking and that's ok.
Is it an old school thang? Should I blame it on my mother?
Should I change my mentality? nahhh, it's just me.
I respect the word woman in a way I just cant respect girl.
An adult, grown, mature,woman (who is also very much a lady)
sounds like a dream come true (to me.)
There are people who hate the term lady and what that
implies too. To me, it means charming with a bit of demure that
oozes a confident wisdom and subtle sexiness.
Light on the "public" raunch (at least what can be seen..snort)
but worlds away from prudey.
Dare I say classy woman because classy grates
on some people too. My grandmother grew up a migrant worker and
had class for days ( what I speak of , is so not about the money )

different strokes and all that

slurpin my coffee with my pinkie out kind of butch

[Tawse]

and to me... girl and boi/y are used in an entirely different light... brings to mind eager submissives... (with nothing immature about them)


*le sigh

I think I will be rereading "the boy in the middle" now...

[dykeumentary]

"I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger... Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives... It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

If I read that in a personal ad, I would ask her out on a date in a new york minute.

[Dude]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

"I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger... Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives... It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

If I read that in a personal ad, I would ask her out on a date in a new york minute.

I might "try" dating her for a minute.
Nope, no I wouldnt lol.
I would get an insensitive vibe from her choice of words.
Even 40 years ago (for me) that word was a trigger for all that I am not.
In this tiny paragraph , she says it 11 times.
(To me) that cancels out the good words she chose like swagger and cock.
The disconnect between sir and girl is fucking enormous. helllooooo?

I would think that she does not know the ==>first thing about butches to begin with.

[Martina]

i know quite a few butches who visit their girl space as well as boy space. One has a deep glorious commanding voice.

We are who we are, but in my experience, there are a lot of butch girls out there, and thank god for them.

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by Dude

I might "try" dating her for a minute.
Nope, no I wouldnt lol.
I would get an insensitive vibe from her choice of words.
Even 40 years ago (for me) that word was a trigger for all that I am not.
In this tiny paragraph , she says it 11 times.
(To me) that cancels out the good words she chose like swagger and cock.
The disconnect between sir and girl is fucking enormous. helllooooo?

I would think that she does not know the ==>first thing about butches to begin with.

Great, pal! Please don't waste the time of Femmes who appreciate complexity. That leaves them more available for feminist butches like me, who laugh at the sexist world we live in. I'm hot for Femmes who can negotiate that oppression without asking us butches to be reflect the binary back to them. I'm hot for Femmes who can call me any word that makes them feel sexy and want to get with me. I'm hot for Femmes who often suffered because of not being seen as "girly enough" because they were strong and independent. My "butchness" grew from my girlhood. I'm neither ashamed of it, nor diminished by culturally common references to it.

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by Dude

I would think that she does not know the ==>first thing about butches to begin with.

I dont know whom you have dated, but are you sure you want to tell a Femme "what she knows about butches"?
Let's not be critical. Let's celebrate that someone took the time to say something (anything) about butches. If it doesn't exactly describe you, well....something else probably does.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

"I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger... Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives... It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

If I read that in a personal ad, I would ask her out on a date in a new york minute.

This is how I feel too. I know we all have our own thing and clearly labels and descriptors are important to many, however I am into anything girl, bitch, cunt, whatever, HOWEVER the moment one outside our culture says it I too get a little twitchy (CherylNYC lol).

I'm really turned on by butch lesbians. That very masculine energy whether it overt or androgynous. I especially love a faggie little butch boi. We all have different things that make our panties wet and things we find politically correct.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Sachita

We all have different things that make our panties wet and things we find politically correct.

I think you mean undergarments! "Panties" assumes a gender ID that may not be accurate for others in the thread!

NO, I mean, my assigning a gender to panties indicates a projection of my undergarment preference on others who may share my gender id but choose for their own valid personal reasons to wear boxers

WAIT, why am I assuming boxers are the opposite of panties?? What is the deal with my undergarment binary???

[JustJo]

Interesting conversation...

I didn't get twitchy when I read "girl", simply because I read it as a creative piece coming from her own "me" space. She likes butch girls. Others like butch bois. Others like *fill in the blank.*

The word girl used to be insulting to me....back in the 80s and 90s when I was younger and working hard to stand up for myself, be independent, and be respected.

Now that I'm a crone of 50 (and, yes, that's a word I like for myself ), I am not offended by "girl" unless there's a derogatory or sarcastic tone included. I work out 3 times a week with a group of 60, 70 and 80 year old women....who all call themselves girls. I like it. In that context, it's embracing the youthful spirit and energy they feel....and I give a wave and a "see ya later girls...have a great day!" as I leave, just like they all do.

Since moving to South Florida, I've felt less "isms" than anywhere I've ever lived. It feels accepting....like whoever you are and whatever you do is all good. Snack and I sat at the beach one day, talking about this very thing as people of all ages, sizes, colors, etc. walked by. We were spotting Family...and loving that no one appeared to give a single rat's ass about what anyone else was doing. We were all too busy enjoying ourselves.

Living here...I've also been called "girl" or "lady" or "ma'am" more than I ever have in my life either, but there's no edge....it's just how people greet and talk here. I'm good with it. For me, context and tone counts for more than the word used (with a few exceptions).

[The_Lady_Snow]

I loved her wording, for me it described how it feels to have the visual, sexual, physical effect I have and have had towards a girl who's opposite of me. Also I can identify with the gender since my gender is not what was imposed at birth. When I read the word girl in her quote above I can close my eyes and visualize my first girl kiss to the first time I was touched by a girl who wore clothes only the boys wore. I have more but typing on this iPhone is a pain in the booty!