Tristan Taormino - loves butch girls

[Tawse]

and to me... girl and boi/y are used in an entirely different light... brings to mind eager submissives... (with nothing immature about them)


*le sigh

I think I will be rereading "the boy in the middle" now...

[dykeumentary]

"I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger... Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives... It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

If I read that in a personal ad, I would ask her out on a date in a new york minute.

[Dude]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

"I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger... Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives... It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

If I read that in a personal ad, I would ask her out on a date in a new york minute.

I might "try" dating her for a minute.
Nope, no I wouldnt lol.
I would get an insensitive vibe from her choice of words.
Even 40 years ago (for me) that word was a trigger for all that I am not.
In this tiny paragraph , she says it 11 times.
(To me) that cancels out the good words she chose like swagger and cock.
The disconnect between sir and girl is fucking enormous. helllooooo?

I would think that she does not know the ==>first thing about butches to begin with.

[Martina]

i know quite a few butches who visit their girl space as well as boy space. One has a deep glorious commanding voice.

We are who we are, but in my experience, there are a lot of butch girls out there, and thank god for them.

[BullDog]

I know of plenty of butches who refer to themselves as girl and it has nothing to do with them being submissive. I don't particularly like being called girl but it doesn't sting and I don't consider it an insult unless someone is clearly trying to insult. I also don't like being called lady. I can't stand when men refer to women as girls, but when other women do it it doesn't bother me. I also don't like straight people using the term dyke.

As for the quote, I wasn't offended. I think the author was talking about her own feelings using her own words. I think it was a very butch positive quote and she clearly admires and is attracted to butches.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I don't believe she was educating straight men she was more examining the draw they had towards her girlfriend.. I'll have reread it.

[BullDog]

I think she gets butches just fine

"Straight men (my friends included) can and have been friendly to my lovers, but they're often uncomfortable when they're butches. Part of their discomfort is that butches are inherently threatening to most men. Men sense that a butch's masculinity is more appealing to me than theirs, and if she's packin' heat (wielding a dildo), which you know they imagine she is, well, there you have it. My girlfriend Red is a better man than most men.

At my cousin's wedding a few weeks back in upstate New York, Red and I were (surprise, surprise) the only lesbians. We were seated at a table with all my cousin's friends—married yuppies. The husbands were totally fascinated by Red. One in particular wanted to know where she got her hair cut, and he admired her flattop repeatedly, saying he wished his looked so good. This experience at the wedding has actually been happening a lot lately, and other butches I know report similar situations. I'm still mystified when straight men seem drawn to Red, but I have a few theories. In some cases, I think that men feel they can have a safe gay interaction with her; they can flirt and be playful (and even talk interior decorating) as if she were another guy because they know she's really a woman. Sometimes men actually identify with her as one of the guys, automatically admitting her into that fraternal order. But when they admire her suit, her wingtips, her hair, they seem to be learning from her what it's like to be a good man. She embodies a study of ideal masculinity, which is all in the details."

[WickedFemme]

It's my opinion, I own it whether or not you agree or disagree is your opinion and I respect differences. Yes, when she lectures at universities I assume that the majority of the audience are heterosexuals because statistics don't lie. I don't know her personally, but I have met her once briefly. She seems like an okay person. However, I don't think anyone is the authority on any subject regardless of who they think they are. We are all people experiencing our own lives and living our own biases because we are subjective. My partner is one who identifies as female butch and I'm very okay with that. I accept how everyone identifies - who am I to judge. However, I can see how her statements could be interpreted as misogynistic depending upon where you are standing on the spectrum of gender identity. My butch is my boy. I'm sure that Tristan's butch at that time was quite alright with the way she represented her at the time. I'm hoping and quite sure she wasn't speaking of all butches. and yes, I will not retract my statement that heteros probably find her quite intriguing. personally, she bores me and I don't read her stuff or pay for her lectures. She just isn't that interesting to me, but that's my perogative. I'm sure I did not spell that word correctly. hahaha!

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by Dude

I might "try" dating her for a minute.
Nope, no I wouldnt lol.
I would get an insensitive vibe from her choice of words.
Even 40 years ago (for me) that word was a trigger for all that I am not.
In this tiny paragraph , she says it 11 times.
(To me) that cancels out the good words she chose like swagger and cock.
The disconnect between sir and girl is fucking enormous. helllooooo?

I would think that she does not know the ==>first thing about butches to begin with.

Great, pal! Please don't waste the time of Femmes who appreciate complexity. That leaves them more available for feminist butches like me, who laugh at the sexist world we live in. I'm hot for Femmes who can negotiate that oppression without asking us butches to be reflect the binary back to them. I'm hot for Femmes who can call me any word that makes them feel sexy and want to get with me. I'm hot for Femmes who often suffered because of not being seen as "girly enough" because they were strong and independent. My "butchness" grew from my girlhood. I'm neither ashamed of it, nor diminished by culturally common references to it.

[Dude]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

Great, pal! Please don't waste the time of Femmes who appreciate complexity. That leaves them more available for feminist butches like me, who laugh at the sexist world we live in. I'm hot for Femmes who can negotiate that oppression without asking us butches to be reflect the binary back to them. I'm hot for Femmes who can call me any word that makes them feel sexy and want to get with me. I'm hot for Femmes who often suffered because of not being seen as "girly enough" because they were strong and independent. My "butchness" grew from my girlhood. I'm neither ashamed of it, nor diminished by culturally common references to it.

Please dont call me pal.
What have I written that leads you to believe I am an oppressor of women or non feminist butch?

signed
the un-complex? I think fucking not :]

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by Dude

I would think that she does not know the ==>first thing about butches to begin with.

I dont know whom you have dated, but are you sure you want to tell a Femme "what she knows about butches"?
Let's not be critical. Let's celebrate that someone took the time to say something (anything) about butches. If it doesn't exactly describe you, well....something else probably does.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

"I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger... Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives... It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

If I read that in a personal ad, I would ask her out on a date in a new york minute.

This is how I feel too. I know we all have our own thing and clearly labels and descriptors are important to many, however I am into anything girl, bitch, cunt, whatever, HOWEVER the moment one outside our culture says it I too get a little twitchy (CherylNYC lol).

I'm really turned on by butch lesbians. That very masculine energy whether it overt or androgynous. I especially love a faggie little butch boi. We all have different things that make our panties wet and things we find politically correct.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Sachita

We all have different things that make our panties wet and things we find politically correct.

I think you mean undergarments! "Panties" assumes a gender ID that may not be accurate for others in the thread!

NO, I mean, my assigning a gender to panties indicates a projection of my undergarment preference on others who may share my gender id but choose for their own valid personal reasons to wear boxers

WAIT, why am I assuming boxers are the opposite of panties?? What is the deal with my undergarment binary???

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

I think you mean undergarments! "Panties" assumes a gender ID that may not be accurate for others in the thread!

NO, I mean, my assigning a gender to panties indicates a projection of my undergarment preference on others who may share my gender id but choose for their own valid personal reasons to wear boxers

WAIT, why am I assuming boxers are the opposite of panties?? What is the deal with my undergarment binary???

I just don't like the word panties period! We call 'em chonies at our house. And I've never heard (or even thought of) an undergarment binary, but I think I'm in love with your brain, DC!

[~ocean]

~~ dude ~~ not writing to anyone .. just saying .. thought i'd add a bit of humor ~

[Martina]

I briefly dated a fifty-something male-ID'd butch -- not a member of this or the other site -- who, if say a waitress addressed us as "ladies," would have a sullen half an hour or so. I can't say it ruined too many dates, but even so. . . . . Looking back on it, I am not sure I would go out with someone now who was so easily bruised by a social reality they were sure to run up against with some frequency.

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Novelafemme

I just don't like the word panties period! We call 'em chonies at our house. And I've never heard (or even thought of) an undergarment binary, but I think I'm in love with your brain, DC!

Roos here.......but these are adult roos boxers & panties............not under-aged roos like under-roos.........oh damn....... binary age bias. I'm pretty certain that Andi just went by wearing the Jaws boxers that I never wore because they are cut funny and ride just enough to be too annoying for me.

[julieisafemme]

I liked the piece. My partner is not a girl but he is a butch. I would not call him girl but he was not offended by the piece. I liked the juxtaposition of girl and butch in the piece. It highlighted the usual connotation of the word by expressing what many would say girls should not be. I understand that the word might not be acceptable to some people. Some butches don't want to be called he. I would have a problem if I wrote a piece about my partner and used he instead of girl just like she did and then was told I was being offensive, heteronormative or dated.

[JustJo]

Interesting conversation...

I didn't get twitchy when I read "girl", simply because I read it as a creative piece coming from her own "me" space. She likes butch girls. Others like butch bois. Others like *fill in the blank.*

The word girl used to be insulting to me....back in the 80s and 90s when I was younger and working hard to stand up for myself, be independent, and be respected.

Now that I'm a crone of 50 (and, yes, that's a word I like for myself ), I am not offended by "girl" unless there's a derogatory or sarcastic tone included. I work out 3 times a week with a group of 60, 70 and 80 year old women....who all call themselves girls. I like it. In that context, it's embracing the youthful spirit and energy they feel....and I give a wave and a "see ya later girls...have a great day!" as I leave, just like they all do.

Since moving to South Florida, I've felt less "isms" than anywhere I've ever lived. It feels accepting....like whoever you are and whatever you do is all good. Snack and I sat at the beach one day, talking about this very thing as people of all ages, sizes, colors, etc. walked by. We were spotting Family...and loving that no one appeared to give a single rat's ass about what anyone else was doing. We were all too busy enjoying ourselves.

Living here...I've also been called "girl" or "lady" or "ma'am" more than I ever have in my life either, but there's no edge....it's just how people greet and talk here. I'm good with it. For me, context and tone counts for more than the word used (with a few exceptions).