Butches who don't bind

[Sparkle]

I don't know stephfromMIT, so I can't speak to her intentions but reading the first post it seems as though she's stated the question, the rationale for asking it and her experience in the first sentence: binding came up in another thread, let's talk about it, and she goes on to say that she does not bind and why.

I don't know that anyone has the right to expect she should be baring her soul on this topic or any other. She expressed her experience and opened up a conversation.

AND like weatherboi, I have read the titles of the past two threads about butches who do not bind, or pack and I, too, have cringed.

My first reaction was "oh christ, here we go" And when I step back and examine my reaction objectively I know I cringe and roll my eyes because I (like most of us who have been around here and b-f.) know what kind of ugly butch- butcher- butchest nonsense is likely to rear its nasty head. Because, I, like many of you, know historically that divisiveness and negativity reign when these topics are raised.

I don't know if stephfromMIT knows that or not. I don't know if she's been around long enough to have witnessed it. I don't know if her intention was to stir the pot. AND Nor do you (general you).

The conjecture regarding her intentions and veracity, the assumption she's stirring a pot IS in and of itself - pot stirring.

If the intention of the OP isn't clear - ask a direct question.

I actually think reading between the lines on a public forum is a dodgy business, i think it leads to all sorts of miscommunication and reaction. And I think we've come to that conclusion 8 gazillion and 1 times.

I believe in clear, concise and direct communication - not presumption.

And if your hackles go up, if you've got a bad feeling, if you have read between the lines and don't like what you've seen - leave it be, ignore the thread, don't participate, block the OP or the posters if you feel really strongly. Because conjecture is not fact. And the invisible intent found between the lines is not a reliable source.

If a conversation becomes ugly and negative it is solely the responsibility of the people who contribute to it. We bring our stuff to each thread we engage in, we are responsible for it. Not the OP. Not the person who said something that offended me/you/him/her. Not the site owners. Or the moderators who did or didn't intervene. Not the poster's partner. Or his ex girlfriends 'cats' foster mom. :P

We are responsible for ourselves and our words.

[BullDog]

I agree that it is usually best to focus on what we do rather than what we don't do. Sometimes, though, it turns into some good discussion. On the discussion of non-packing, many butches have been told or made to feel they are less than if they don't pack. When there is discussion about it, it is clear many butches do not. I do think it is far overstated online in terms of packing being the norm for butches. There is also nothing wrong with those that do pack. Either way is fine.

No one should divulge personal stuff they aren't comfortable with, no matter who the OP is. This is a public forum.

Great post Sparkle!

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

I don't know stephfromMIT, so I can't speak to her intentions but reading the first post it seems as though she's stated the question, the rationale for asking it and her experience in the first sentence: binding came up in another thread, let's talk about it, and she goes on to say that she does not bind and why.

I don't know that anyone has the right to expect she should be baring her soul on this topic or any other. She expressed her experience and opened up a conversation.

AND like weatherboi, I have read the titles of the past two threads about butches who do not bind, or pack and I, too, have cringed.

My first reaction was "oh christ, here we go" And when I step back and examine my reaction objectively I know I cringe and roll my eyes because I (like most of us who have been around here and b-f.) know what kind of ugly butch- butcher- butchest nonsense is likely to rear its nasty head. Because, I, like many of you, know historically that divisiveness and negativity reign when these topics are raised.

I don't know if stephfromMIT knows that or not. I don't know if she's been around long enough to have witnessed it. I don't know if her intention was to stir the pot. AND Nor do you (general you).

The conjecture regarding her intentions and veracity, the assumption she's stirring a pot IS in and of itself - pot stirring.

If the intention of the OP isn't clear - ask a direct question.

I actually think reading between the lines on a public forum is a dodgy business, i think it leads to all sorts of miscommunication and reaction. And I think we've come to that conclusion 8 gazillion and 1 times.

I believe in clear, concise and direct communication - not presumption.

And if your hackles go up, if you've got a bad feeling, if you have read between the lines and don't like what you've seen - leave it be, ignore the thread, don't participate, block the OP or the posters if you feel really strongly. Because conjecture is not fact. And the invisible intent found between the lines is not a reliable source.

If a conversation becomes ugly and negative it is solely the responsibility of the people who contribute to it. We bring our stuff to each thread we engage in, we are responsible for it. Not the OP. Not the person who said something that offended me/you/him/her. Not the site owners. Or the moderators who did or didn't intervene. Not the poster's partner. Or his ex girlfriends 'cats' foster mom. :P

We are responsible for ourselves and our words.

I think we can all agree with much of your post, Sparkle.

I posted something inflammatory this morning and then deleted it because I did not wish to, as you say, stir the pot.

In my eyes there are WAY too many inconsistencies in Steph's posts. Some of them are glaring and others are easy to miss unless you are looking for them.

The thing that bothers me is that I, personally, have asked several times for what I consider to be simple clarifications, and have never received solid answers. Finally, I sent the OP a private message and received what I perceived to be a very juvenile, flippant and disrespectful response. My dad graduated from MIT...I feel like I have a legitimate interest.

Steph, you have started some fabulously inquisitive threads and if your intentions are not malicious, then I will be the first to apologize. But right now I question your intentions and quite frankly, I feel a little unsafe having you here. I don't like feeling this way, which is why I came to you personally for clarification.

I for one LOVE new community members and try to roll out the red carpet for all. But I am having trouble here and I feel like there is the potential for hurt when members are being told possible untruths. Especially when it comes to very personal issues like identity and spaces within our hearts.

[stephfromMIT]

Novela-What was wrong with my response to your PM? Sorry to all if I've been lax in answering for myself the questions I ask. I've new to this community, and would hope I'd receive the benefit of the doubt. Since it seems that is not forthcoming, I feel it's best for all if I leave you.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

Novela-What was wrong with my response to your PM? Sorry to all if I've been lax in answering for myself the questions I ask. I've new to this community, and would hope I'd receive the benefit of the doubt. Since it seems that is not forthcoming, I feel it's best for all if I leave you.

Ahem,

Sweet, so would I,
Yet I should kill thee with much cherishing.
Good night, good night! Parting is such sweet sorrow,
That I shall say good night till it be morrow








no one's gonna chase you steph, ya may as well stay and continue to come up with extremely popular threads.

[macele]

as for as binding goes, ...

i have binded. but mostly for medical reasons. i'm still dealing with those reasons. i had binded some before the surgery (heart). not much. i've never discussed binding, not on a forum. i don't like large breasts, not on me. so i do it to keep it all still LOL. just to be honest. no other reason. lots of women do it that are involved in sports, say the compression shirt. ever watch the wnba, ... o they are doing some binding. but all of those women are not butches.

[yotlyolqualli]

steph, if your threads do nothing else, they get people thinking.

Often, that is not popular. It makes people uncomfortable, sometimes, to have to look at, examine, or even acknowledge that other's can, quite possibly have, idea's, ideal's and beliefs that so differ from our own. lol

What you've brought to this community... while many don't like it, is thought. You make us think. You make us examine. You make us angry sometimes. You raise our hackles sometimes. But in doing that.. you challenge the status quote, you challenge perception and you challenege our own thoughts and thought processes.

If I did not feel safe with you in this community, I would stay off of your threads. I would block your posts. I would not engage. I would not enter into a lion's den, just in order to let the lion know that I feel unsafe in their den.

Ask away. Post your threads. Keep raising our hackles, because damn it, without someone to churn the waters, the pool would get pretty damned stagnant!

BTW, I don't care who you, where you come you from, who your daddy is, or what you look like. Why? Because, right now, you are a name on a screen. You are more than likely never going to be in my IRL circle of friends or family. Not because I would not include you, but because, realistically, it's just not going to happen.

I do my best to be blatantly honest about who I am. However, there are aspects of me that I would NEVER divulge to an online community, because, frankly, it's not anyone's business but those who are around me, IRL.

So, in closing, steph... I don't care if anything you post about your personal self here, is truth, or not. I appreciate what you bring to these boards and I hope you don't leave. It's not your muscles, your education or occupation, OR lack thereof, that makes me THINK, it's your words.

Take care.

[Parker]

I guess I never really thought Steph had an ulterior motive, I just kinda figured she like the attention and the fun of it all, hence all the posts.

I remember when I first started coming to places like this and I would see threads with hundreds of pages and thousands of responses, I thought how neat it would be to think of a topic so engaging, it kept people interested for years to come or sparked a deep conversation or lively debate. Now, I'm just happy there's a "thanks/like" feature so if I dont feel like typing, I can just agree with and thank people left and right!

-----

Anyway, I dont bind and never did - oh there are times I'd like to strap these puppies down a bit more because they are huge (something like a 54DD ) and can take out an eye; but I dont want to bind in the sense that I am trying to look like I dont have breasts at all .... just a slight reduction or a better bra would be nice for me and my back!

[Novelafemme]

Perhaps there is more validity to yotlyolqualli's line of thinking than I had thought.

Perhaps it really doesn't matter if what you write is the truth or not. You aren't directly hurting or influencing me!

I guess you rub the part of me that likes specific answers when I ask what I consider to be a direct question - the wrong way. And I don't feel I received an answer.

Oh well.

As far as binding goes; I tried a compression shirt on once and I felt like I was being squeezed by a boa constrictor. I nearly had a panic attack!!

I'm off to class. Be well!!

[tantalizingfemme]

I would actually love for amandatheartist to come over here and start a thread on barefoot running. Do you think she would come over to this site steph? She's really open and friendly and inquisitive like you. I bet she would make a lot of friends and learn a lot too, since it sounds like both if your experiences with butch femme seem really limited!

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by yotlyolqualli

steph, if your threads do nothing else, they get people thinking.

Often, that is not popular. It makes people uncomfortable, sometimes, to have to look at, examine, or even acknowledge that other's can, quite possibly have, idea's, ideal's and beliefs that so differ from our own. lol

What you've brought to this community... while many don't like it, is thought. You make us think. You make us examine. You make us angry sometimes. You raise our hackles sometimes. But in doing that.. you challenge the status quote, you challenge perception and you challenege our own thoughts and thought processes.

If I did not feel safe with you in this community, I would stay off of your threads. I would block your posts. I would not engage. I would not enter into a lion's den, just in order to let the lion know that I feel unsafe in their den.

Ask away. Post your threads. Keep raising our hackles, because damn it, without someone to churn the waters, the pool would get pretty damned stagnant!

BTW, I don't care who you, where you come you from, who your daddy is, or what you look like. Why? Because, right now, you are a name on a screen. You are more than likely never going to be in my IRL circle of friends or family. Not because I would not include you, but because, realistically, it's just not going to happen.

I do my best to be blatantly honest about who I am. However, there are aspects of me that I would NEVER divulge to an online community, because, frankly, it's not anyone's business but those who are around me, IRL.

So, in closing, steph... I don't care if anything you post about your personal self here, is truth, or not. I appreciate what you bring to these boards and I hope you don't leave. It's not your muscles, your education or occupation, OR lack thereof, that makes me THINK, it's your words.

Take care.

i think this stuff - in purple - about you, without the anger/hackles part. i think it about Martina, Aishah and Lady Snow and Princessbelle. serious. you all bend my brain in ways no complacent brain willingly bends. ok sometimes Martina makes my face go all... O.o ...but i'm still sincerely grateful that she beats up my ignorance from time to time. same is true for the other formidable women i've mentioned, you included. if someone wasnt cracking open my limited perspective by being real with their opinions and generously sharing their experiences i'd be worse for the loss. i've also yet to see any of you not be willing to expound on your thoughts, explain where there's confusion, apologize with sincerity if something comes out wrong or say 'i dont know' when information or knowledge wasnt available to you. none of you avoids the hard work -that i've ever observed- and it's pretty rare that you let shit slide when it shouldnt slide. if i have one beef with Steph it's really just one of preference. i like questions and answers to be a 2 way street. i dont see a lot of that happening. with that said, i agree. who cares if she's real or a shared hallucination? i'm not being harmed. i dont like being lied to but i'm not a perfect person either. i told a lie or two when i was a much younger person. not saying Steph is lying. just not interested in seeing yet another thread deteriorate into another 'is she or isnt she' debate. if Steph is BFPs newest agent provacateur then becoming divisive over her threads and posts simply gives her what she came for. i discovered there's an ignore option for the people who offend me deeply.

as for the subject matter:
i've known butches who bind and butches who dont. i think the OP question should have been "who binds and why or why not?" binding is no more a butch province than wearing a bra is a femme one. hell, i used to think that i was 'binding' any time my bra was too small!

[Zimmeh]

Heads up..Don't mention anything from a PM in the threads.

Zimmeh

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

Novela-What was wrong with my response to your PM? Sorry to all if I've been lax in answering for myself the questions I ask. I've new to this community, and would hope I'd receive the benefit of the doubt. Since it seems that is not forthcoming, I feel it's best for all if I leave you.

[yotlyolqualli]

Ummmm I lost over 200 pounds and I went from a DD to an ......... well... I wear a B because I REFUSE to go to an A cup... but it would be doable.

I've also known very tall women, who have very slim hips and are very nearly flat chested and ummm no.. they don't take T and they don't lift weights.

Every human body is different and so is every human experience. No two people experience the exact same thing in the excact same ways.

When some people are in extreme pain, the only IV med that will work is morphine. It's a powerful drug! It's takes away the pain, every time. Right?

Wrong, morphine doesn't do a damned thing for me. In fact, oral vicodan will take care of the pain for me, MUCH better than morphine ever could!

Pain, trauma or stress raises blood pressure, right?

Not for me. Stress, pain and or trauma will cause my blood pressure to lower into dangerous numbers, even if I am NOT bleeding internally lol


No two bodies are exactly the same. What exercise does for one person, may not do the same for the next.

Besides, why do these threads ALWAYS devolve into what the OP looks like?

I also was offended by the insinuation that the OP was on steroids.

WTF? What does that have to do with the subject of the thread? Seriously.

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Zimmeh

Heads up..Don't mention anything from a PM in the threads.

Zimmeh

I mentioned it in an effort to illustrate that I had reached out to Steph privately. I don't have any other means of contacting her privately. Duly noted.

Well, there is my telepathic ability, but that's for another thread!

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

If the intention of the OP isn't clear - ask a direct question.

I did. I asked several. Never got an answer. It's unusual on this site for people to ask questions/start threads without explaining and sharing more. I did ask before I stirred the pot some. I don't question her identity. Don't care. But the stepped on sensitivities, yeah, I expect her to hear back about that. We all did when we started here.

Until the recent threatened flounces, I didn't have a clear sense of the level of maturity we were dealing with. Now I do. And I won't take it all as seriously. But I expect that she, like anyone, will get stood on when she doesn't pay attention. And honestly, this bright young woman can not claim that she is paying close attention to what is going on around here -- in spite of her apparent curiosity.