only another butch would understand

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Thanks Toughy and Red. My concern is that, as is pointed out in the video, violence and aggression is part of the cultural norm of masculinity- cultural norm being key. If we don't ever examine this how can we as masculine people be so sure we are just incorporating the positive aspects of masculinity, given how the dark side is so glorified? We see much of the macho attitudes and sexism alive and well in queer culture, and unfortunately domestic violence and abuse as well.

Yes there are differences in that most of us were raised as females and not necessarily socialized to be masculine. I do believe our own brands of masculinity are different because of this. However at the same time so many of us felt masculine and were drawn to masculinity from an early age, so I don't think we are immune from what our culture tells and shows us. Masculinity in and of itself I see as positive, but unexamined masculinity- given the cultural norms- can be quite dangerous and damaging.

I think that all of us who identify in some way as masculine need to examine masculinity. I also think that those that identify as male or men have a responsibility of realizing just how pervasive male violence is, how damaging misogyny is, how male is overwhelmingly valued over female both in society in general as well as queer culture. You need to realize that when you are in a butch femme community you are in a primarily female queer space and having male identified people in it changes things. You have a responsibility to recognize that. Just like me being a white person- when I am in the presence of people of color the space is whiter than it would be without me and I have white privilege. You can't just be here to get fluffed up and be told how manly you are. I am not saying anyone participating in this thread is doing this- it's the general you I am talking about.

Bully, I am on my home desk top right now and this computer is about to hit the recycle bin. I could not run the video on this relic. I tried. Hence, I am going to use your above post to comment on "unexamined masculinity." The portions I agree with are in blue. The underlined portions is where I disagree or need further clarification.

"Having male identified people in it changes things." Are you talking about male privilege? Just to throw in another wrench to all of this; what if you pass as male consistently but are female identified butch? In my mind this could also be a potential example of perception that provides for male privilege.

Honestly, when I started to take T 18 months ago, something inside of my conciousness shifted. I became much more cognizant of the fact that I was going to be treated with more respect by many because of their perception. Frankly it took me many years to make the decision to take T. For me, I did not think taking T would make myself that much different from when I identified as simply a Butch. But as I move further into my transition I am looking much more closely at masculinity and what does that mean in the macro and micro.

I have hopes of being a hybrid model of a masculine entity that is the combination of all aspects of who I am. A Butch/Transman, socialized as a woman now presenting as masculine, "male."

The examination of masculinity now even more so will beongoing. I am treading new territory and have no intention of abandoning the Butch-Femme Queer community.

I realize my post is scattered. I'm tired but I think you have brought up a very important and timely topic for discussion.