What Should We Do To Effect Change?

[meridiantoo]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

It's new for me, this equating of "feminine" with eco-friendly.

I guess that means "masculine" is eco-harmful?

I don't think I accept that premise.

Who says "feminine" can't be greedy or destructive?

I totally agree, but I think our society has accepted a norm for what "masculine" and "feminine" entail, based largely on male-dominant premises that undermine the feminine aspects of life as something separate and weak. What truly encompasses masculine, at least in my mind, is not so defined by those norms. I think it depends on whose definitions you embrace. But, I think feminine can be just as destructive, definitely.

[AmazonWoman1]

Originally Posted by meridiantoo

I totally agree, but I think our society has accepted a norm for what "masculine" and "feminine" entail, based largely on male-dominant premises that undermine the feminine aspects of life as something separate and weak. What truly encompasses masculine, at least in my mind, is not so defined by those norms. I think it depends on whose definitions you embrace. But, I think feminine can be just as destructive, definitely.

I myself do not believe in the concepts named masculine & feminine truly saying anything about the nature of things.I have never seen genitals on a so called mens watch nor woman's.I was trying to show how languaging characteristics labeled as so called feminine & then minimizing them causes them to be seen as negative & therefore in our mythology they are deprecated until they are punished.The same way as when we wanted to kill the Vietnamese peoples we called them names like "gook" etc to seperate them from us & to thereby make the different person acceptable to murder.The concepts of nurturing compassion etc seem to have been made negative to the point that there appears to be open war on women about birth control & rape.Some countries now regularly set up rape camps.America has never had a female leader while others have for decades.I think this trend of devaluing anything seen as feminine to where pussy & cunt are seen as offensive swear words has serious implications.Once those things have occurred the behavior changes towards people appearing to possess those characteristics.Women got the right to vote nearly 100 years after blacks & they were slaves.History repeated itself when a black male was made president over a white female.When you do that you unbalance the equation tremendously.Male/ female energy is supposed to balance each other.Neither is better nor worse.They just are.The fact it has become so unbalanced is the problem.Entitlement comes from the unbalancing.If a person is entitled they are not fair.Corruption is about someone believing they have a right to more.I wonder what would make this truth more apparent to people.Simple things like why do women have to shave?Why do women pay more at the dry cleaner or hairdresser to get services when a male pays less for the same services?Sine rape is so prevalent why isn't it being reported?Mythology becomes action.How do we change the mythology before it destroys our way of life.I am not trying to man bash etc.We all live or die here together.And in the end no one gets off this planet alive*S*

[meridiantoo]

Originally Posted by AmazonWoman1

Mythology becomes action.How do we change the mythology before it destroys our way of life.I am not trying to man bash etc.We all live or die here together.And in the end no one gets off this planet alive*S*

Excellent post!

Mythology is action.

I'm not male/masculine/gender bashing either. It's what our society has deemed as masculine/powerful/acceptable that's the problem.

Great thread!

[Ginger]

I think whether we like it or not, the application of "masculine" and "feminine" dynamics is going to creep into eco-topics of discussion.

That said, I've been lectured by friends in academia on the evils of "essentialism," and I "get" how uncool it is to stereotype around gender.

On the other hand, in the context of environmentalism, if, for example, there is a male-dominated industry doing the damage, it's hard not to attribute some kind of male energy (and class dominance!) as being part of the equation.

(Good grief I'm all over the place...)

That said, obviously like others have said, the movement to clean up and protect the earth is a movement comprised of people from all walks of life and identifications, though damage to the earth affects men and women differently overall, if you look at the demographics of who is affected by failing economies.

Of course eventually, everyone will be affected by a dying earth, some just sooner than others.

I work on the same floor as a sustainability team, four men and two women, and I respect them each individually and as a unit and they all care deeply about our impact on the environment. They also strike me as a group not affected the toxins of sexism that make my environment a place where I have to tread cautiously and often keep my opinions to myself, so as to not set off hostile, sexist comments and other ugly behaviors.

On a related note, personally it always bugged me when people talked of "mother" earth (Alice Walker included), but it's human nature to personify things so we can understand them.

Gender is a valid facet of the environmental discussion, though it helps me personally to feel more hopeful when I think about and hear of the little practical things people can do to keep the planet healthier.

[meridiantoo]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

On a related note, personally it always bugged me when people talked of "mother" earth (Alice Walker included), but it's human nature to personify things so we can understand them.

Love this statement, so true.

[meridiantoo]

I know I'm going to step on some toes when I say this, so I apologize in advance.

It seems that it is masculine-centered norms that are destroying our earth, not to the exclusion of the feminine participating in that destruction, but I think by far, it's masculine-dominant thinking, as our society has defined it, that contributes the most to how we live.

So, how do we (especially as lesbians/Trans/Queer/Non-bio male) address a straight white bio-male dominated societal mentality?

1) I try to look at what we can personally do first, and that illuminates to me to focus on raising boys. Mothers in our society help to form the very disgusting gender-bashing and idea that males are the entitled sex and deserve different/biased treatment. I see it all the time in parent/child dynamics.

2) I think we have to get bolder in our (the GLTB community) views and work through action.

3) For God's sake, VOTE!

This is where I get stumped and would love to hear what others have to say.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by meridiantoo

I know I'm going to step on some toes when I say this, so I apologize in advance.

It seems that it is masculine-centered norms that are destroying our earth, not to the exclusion of the feminine participating in that destruction, but I think by far, it's masculine-dominant thinking, as our society has defined it, that contributes the most to how we live.

So, how do we (especially as lesbians/Trans/Queer/Non-bio male) address a straight white bio-male dominated societal mentality?

1) I try to look at what we can personally do first, and that illuminates to me to focus on raising boys. Mothers in our society help to form the very disgusting gender-bashing and idea that males are the entitled sex and deserve different/biased treatment. I see it all the time in parent/child dynamics.

2) I think we have to get bolder in our (the GLTB community) views and work through action.

3) For God's sake, VOTE!

This is where I get stumped and would love to hear what others have to say.

Well I'm not a mom and I had a really hard time being a stepmom (my partner didn't want me to use that word, but I don't know what else to call it except I was that lady that lived in the house for a while).

So my views on raising boys are based on 1) my own miserable experience of living with a boy for over two years; and 2) my observations of lesbian moms—I'm thinking of five women whose homes I've been in and whose kids I've met.

I'm mulling over whether they raised entitled brats or responsible non-sexist men.

But you know what, the mom is not the only factor in how a kid turns out, powerful as moms are. Society and culture and peers and the economy and DNA are such huge factors in a kid's development. The mom does her best, is a huge, huge influence—but the kid also lives in a big world outside the family.

You're right, we can do our best to raise nice humans. But we're not totally to "blame" if they don't turn out that way, IMO.

(Said the non-parenting femme, who was a miserable failure as a "stepmom.")

[AmazonWoman1]

Originally Posted by meridiantoo

I know I'm going to step on some toes when I say this, so I apologize in advance.

It seems that it is masculine-centered norms that are destroying our earth, not to the exclusion of the feminine participating in that destruction, but I think by far, it's masculine-dominant thinking, as our society has defined it, that contributes the most to how we live.

So, how do we (especially as lesbians/Trans/Queer/Non-bio male) address a straight white bio-male dominated societal mentality?

1) I try to look at what we can personally do first, and that illuminates to me to focus on raising boys. Mothers in our society help to form the very disgusting gender-bashing and idea that males are the entitled sex and deserve different/biased treatment. I see it all the time in parent/child dynamics.

2) I think we have to get bolder in our (the GLTB community) views and work through action.

3) For God's sake, VOTE!

This is where I get stumped and would love to hear what others have to say.

That teaching of entitlement to small boys does bring about the thinking that is destroying Everything.Even Ensler has planned an earth day to tie it inhttp://www.care2.com/causes/eve-ensler-goes-ecofeminist.html

I just really want to know how do we break the chains of this mindset to become more aware & less unhappy.

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

On a related note, personally it always bugged me when people talked of "mother" earth (Alice Walker included), but it's human nature to personify things so we can understand them.

Mother Earth, for me, is a living, breathing entity. She is part of my spiritual beliefs. Why would it bug you for someone to speak of their Deity?

Or do you not factor that in? I believe that is how Alice Walker uses the term as well. For me, Mother Earth is Gaia. Gaia is one of the many names of the Goddess. I also hold to the GreenMan as the living embodiment of the forest. He is the masculine soul.

But to the original poster (op)'s comment, I flat out do not think it is a feminine or a masculine problem. I think (and I know this will be twitchy for some) that it is the attitude of stewardship that some religions teach. That of humans being somehow superior and therefore "in charge" of nature.

We should, in my opinion, live in a partnership with nature not an attitude of ownership.

Can small things make a change? Yes. And, for me, they are far better than big splashy things. My turning off the water when I brush my teeth or wash my hands is a, you should pardon the pun, drop in the bucket, but it counts. More than that, it adds up.

I may not be able to do the twice a year "clean up the river" patrols, but by the Gods I can and do conserve the water I can touch.

I also recycle as much as possible.

YMMV of course. Each person can only do what they are called, moved to do. And that is the right thing for them.

Gender, for me, has no place in this discussion. Religion, though...religion certainly does.

By the way, I am in no way angry at IslandScout (I assume she knows that but will caveat this in case since we are still under a Mercury Retrograde.)

[meridiantoo]

Originally Posted by Arwen

Mother Earth, for me, is a living, breathing entity. She is part of my spiritual beliefs. Why would it bug you for someone to speak of their Deity?

Or do you not factor that in? I believe that is how Alice Walker uses the term as well. For me, Mother Earth is Gaia. Gaia is one of the many names of the Goddess. I also hold to the GreenMan as the living embodiment of the forest. He is the masculine soul.

But to the original poster (op)'s comment, I flat out do not think it is a feminine or a masculine problem. I think (and I know this will be twitchy for some) that it is the attitude of stewardship that some religions teach. That of humans being somehow superior and therefore "in charge" of nature.

We should, in my opinion, live in a partnership with nature not an attitude of ownership.

Can small things make a change? Yes. And, for me, they are far better than big splashy things. My turning off the water when I brush my teeth or wash my hands is a, you should pardon the pun, drop in the bucket, but it counts. More than that, it adds up.

I may not be able to do the twice a year "clean up the river" patrols, but by the Gods I can and do conserve the water I can touch.

I also recycle as much as possible.

YMMV of course. Each person can only do what they are called, moved to do. And that is the right thing for them.

Gender, for me, has no place in this discussion. Religion, though...religion certainly does.

By the way, I am in no way angry at IslandScout (I assume she knows that but will caveat this in case since we are still under a Mercury Retrograde.)

Love this post, Arwen!

The concept of stewardship is something I never considered, but I think exactly what we are talking about. Thank you for that perspective.

I think what we do on a personal level makes a huge difference, especially when combined with the same/similar actions of others.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

On a related note, personally it always bugged me when people talked of "mother" earth (Alice Walker included), but it's human nature to personify things so we can understand them.

Originally Posted by Arwen

[COLOR=Purple]
Mother Earth, for me, is a living, breathing entity. She is part of my spiritual beliefs. Why would it bug you for someone to speak of their Deity?

Or do you not factor that in? I believe that is how Alice Walker uses the term as well. For me, Mother Earth is Gaia. Gaia is one of the many names of the Goddess. I also hold to the GreenMan as the living embodiment of the forest. He is the masculine soul.

[/SIZE]

Hi, Arwen.

I didn't mean to denigrate anyone's beliefs, if that's what I did.

These words might have been better: I don't share the belief that the earth is a female being. I have very, very deep feelings and haunting sadness for the earth and for all living things and for the ecosystem I'm part of, but I don't relate to their personification.

I was too flip I guess.

Scout

[femmeInterrupted]

Wonderful thread, and I've really enjoyed reading all the responses.


Dominion over vs Stewardship of.

I don't believe it's possible to take gender out of the equation when deconstructing pertinent issues that deal with a Power Over/Power Under construct.

I believe we would be hard pressed to NOT include gender. In the case of issues surrounding our world/environment, it seems fairly clear from my own standpoint, that the ways of conceptualizing power (Power over) fits within a domination/power over relation to the land/earth/environment. More specifically, an unjust or subjection of power that falls under oppression/patriarchy.

If we consider the matter closer to home (North America) then a post-colonial framework is appropriate, and a gendered lens is essential when rethinking our position. In terms of Environmental Stewardship, First Nation's people have long been regarded as societies working with nature, not against it.

In pre-contact society, many First Nations ( in Eastern and Western Canada) had matriarchal structures. The balance was that Chiefs could still be male, but were chosen by clan Mothers, and equally, removed if they didn't like what the chief was doing.

Even in Plains Nations, were societies tended to be patriarchal, the power differential was unimportant because women were respected and women's roles believed to be important to survival. Balance.

Gender inequality started creeping in the same time as the rape of north america began with the fur trade.
There is a parallel between not only this gender inequality, but colonization, the destruction of land/water/species and the advent of industry.

Sometimes I feel that we've internalized fears as women/feminists/lesbians about being seen 'man haters' etc.
Globally, our decision making power doesn't even register.
We hold bare percentages of the world's wealth/power. The issues that are contributing to the degradation of our enviroment are issues BECAUSE of male dominated systems of thinking/power/decision making.
This is what allows the disconnect. Without derailing this issue, ALL creatures get the shit end of the Patriarchy stick, boys and men included.

Of *course* there are men who are allies, who are globally conscious on all levels. Everybody loves David Suzuki! But to not frame the discussion with some attention to gender leaves for me, not a lot of room for answers.
For me, there is no disconnecting any of it. Poverty. War. Pollution. Rape. Violence.

The OP used words like fairness, compassion, kindness, loving, collective work, etc. in describing the 'feminine'. These characteristics are heavily gendered. Women are expected to be compassionate and kind, etc. (and when not, are seen as flawed somehow) Men with those qualities are often derided for them, are seen as 'less than' a 'real man', and at the most misogynistic end, called 'pussies' or 'girls/women'. Of course, it's all a construct.

Anyways, that's my two.cents. (which will soon be a nickel, Canada has discontinued the penny!)

[ClassyStud]

Changing back to "What should we do to Effect Change?"

I am seriously thinking of moving at least for a few months to see if its what I want. Wondering what the planet thinks. Is this this a good way to spawn change in ones life or do your troubles follow you as the saying goes?