In Celebration of Butch Femininity

[Medusa]

Ok folks, we are getting reports about this thread.

Julie - It's ok to speak about your own experiences, just don't generalize. You were fine until you said "Lesbians judge how we...".

All - There are some great examples in this thread of people engaging respectfully with Julie on what they thought was problematic about what she said about Lesbians and I'd prefer that if you are having a problem with something someone said, you engage with that person respectfully rather than cyber-slapping them. It's not productive and does nothing to further the conversation.

On a personal note, it is difficult to moderate discussions where people are talking about things they have experienced and how they perceive other people or other groups of people. Sure, people like to go "Well, if you insert "Femme" or "Trans" into that discussion then you'd moderate!!" but it is not that black and white.
This is Butch/Femme/Trans space. It's women's space. It is not exclusively Lesbian space just as it is not exclusively Femme or Trans or Butch space. The intention for this space, however, stands as Butch, Femme, and Trans space and we have GOT to be able to discuss the nuances specific to our community reasonably and as healthy as possible.

We have moderated a fair amount of folks for talking about what they have experienced in the Lesbian community and I have often felt really frustrated by that. Not because I don't think that we need to be very careful about making generalizations (of course this is important!), but because I have felt like it is somehow "taboo" to talk about the very real marginalization that Butches, Femmes, and Transpeople have experienced in the Lesbian community. It's especially frustrating when that conversation gets squashed in Butch,Femme, Trans space. Why? Because that's a very real conversation that is valid, truthful, and important.

The other thing that is frustrating is that people like Julie *who identify as a Lesbian* are being silenced from talking about their own community. I would be agog if I, as a Femme (who consequently identifies as a Lesbian as well), was being told by TPTB that I can't call it out when other Femmes marginalize me. Do we really want that in our community? Do we really want a lily-white, washed up for the masses version of history? Do we want sacred cows here?

Look, I'm not saying that Lesbians should be villified, or stereotyped, or generalized as "evil, humorless crustbuckets who slash and burn all things Butch, Femme, and Trans". That's bull and we all know it. We are all worthy of respect and I don't want the Lesbians in this community feeling targeted or disrespected just like I don't want the Butches, Femmes, Transfolks, and intersectionalized identities feeling disrespected.

With that said, can we all please agree that this is a valid discussion worthy of our best choices of words? Worthy of our best effort to speak from our own experience with specificity and in a way that honors this space and the discussion? And can we please follow some of the fine examples in this thread of debating with respect so that this discussion can continue without a bunch of acidity and unhealthy back and forth?

These discussions ("these" meaning any discussion that involves teasing apart gender and idnetity) always run the risk of offending one or multiple people. It's going to happen. We're human and our lenses are all different. Hopefully we can all commit to doing this with as much good will as possible so let's check our "stuff" at the door and work toward understanding one another. K?

Thanks,
Angie