In Celebration of Butch Femininity

[BullDog]

Well, the way I see it there are chest thumpers in every group. I have faced more judgement and hostility in BF online communities than I in real time lesbian communities (have faced some there too)- most of it hasn't been from lesbians. There are judgmental people in every group. If you are going to get some hurtful feelings it's probably going to be from your dating pool and people who don't id the same way as you. It's not right no matter who does it.

It seems when lesbian complain about blanket statements, we are then told there needs to be room for people to talk about there experiences. I don't see any lesbians saying that all lesbians are perfect or that no lesbians have ever been judgmental. I don't get why it is taken to such extremes. There's people in every group that are judgmental and there plenty of very accepting and nice people in every group as well.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Well, the way I see it there are chest thumpers in every group. I have faced more judgement and hostility in BF online communities than I in real time lesbian communities (have faced some there too)- most of it hasn't been from lesbians. There are judgmental people in every group. If you are going to get some hurtful feelings it's probably going to be from your dating pool and people who don't id the same way as you. It's not right no matter who does it.

It seems when lesbian complain about blanket statements, we are then told there needs to be room for people to talk about there experiences. I don't see any lesbians saying that all lesbians are perfect or that no lesbians have ever been judgmental. I don't get why it is taken to such extremes. There's people in every group that are judgmental and there plenty of very accepting and nice people in every group as well.

I believe EVERYONE has been broad stroked so far in this thread in one form or another, from ftms to butch, to lesbians so on. I don't see how we are going to have these conversations if we don't leave personal beefs, personalizing things and other stuff that is going to blurr the lines and not allow the conversation to flow.


There have been a lot of ugly things said to Femme's who date xyz by lesbians here, there have been ugly things said by xyz to trans folk, there has been a militant stance on who can identify as xyz or lmno.

I don't get it, I never will.


This is a very difficult conversation to have because we all have such vast experiences across the gender spectrum here on BFP.

I don't deal with these issues out there, we just are, we're queer walking about the world, here it's like walking on land mines, it's very disconcerting.

[BullDog]

Snow, I honestly don't know what posts you are referring to where people have been broad stroked in this thread. I will come back later to read. If you are talking on the site in general, then yes I agree it does happen and it has happened to every single group.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Snow, I honestly don't know what posts you are referring to where people have been broad stroked in this thread. I will come back later to read. If you are talking on the site in general, then yes I agree it does happen and it has happened to every single group.

either way, it shouldn't be happening, regardless of group.

Why is it that we can't get a on handle that?

When there is an implication that masculine folk are the only ones tromping around in threads or spaces, that's not true, we all do it, Femme's do it, Butches do it (that covers all butch identities) Guys do it etc. I had to clarify to Kobi I believe that it wasn't just a *male identity* problem. This is a merry go round conversation we can't just blame one sub group of the community, we're all crossing boundaries up in here... Make sense?

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

either way, it shouldn't be happening, regardless of group.

Why is it that we can't handle that?

I am in complete agreement. I said that in my previous post.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I am in complete agreement. I said that in my previous post.

Good to know!

[C0LLETTE]

So, is that it then? -A lot of things got said.. then some hand waving by the weary, maybe some "agree to disagree" and it's over? I'm not so sure this can all be papered over so easily. It's obviously a contentious issue that keeps rearing up, over and over, and it does seem to invade many diverse threads. Maybe the weary need to let it play itself out.

Of course everyone could also be sent to their respective corners where they could only talk to their own kind but I betcha that wont work and what's the benefit of that. And, to complicate matters, it's not just what we talk about but also how and why we do it: some like the intellectual reasoning and have the vocabulary to do it, some need to vent in whatever terms are immediate; some have heard it all before; and I'm sure there are many more motivations.

Seems to me that the only solution is to: 1. make threads iron clad and have mods jump in at the first hint of divergence or tangent ( likely a path to upheaval) or 2. just let things go, pull out if you feel the thread has lost its bearings and there's little more of interest to you that is being said. The contentious issues wont die but they will go into a gentler coma for a while.

Thing is, there may be thousands of threads listed but there really do seem to be a very few themes. Everyone will surely get their chance again.

[Julie]

Damn right there are chest thumpers everywhere. I am a chest thumping Femme. I also believe we are all judgmental at times and we all get defensive. It is human nature. I will own my own failures in communicating my thoughts. I will own that I am judgmental. And hopefully I will stop and take a breath and learn from this. I will not come in here with miniscule passive aggressive statements. I will say what I am feeling, right or wrong. Not just leave a word bomb.

What is not okay for me, is when a person who identifies as a Lesbian on a Butch/Femme/Trans site and says... You don't belong in this space and you don't get to interject your opinion. What is not okay is shaming another for who they date, how they dress or how they identify and worse Bulldog, how they fuck. I don't care if you are a makeup wearing Butch who loves pantyhose. This does not take away from the Butch you are.

I came out as a proud Lesbian. I found my people. I was finally home and while there were masculine and feminine energies in these communities, they were Lesbian. They did not have space for masculine or feminine identified folk and certainly not for trans folk on either gender spectrum.

Again (for the zillionith (exaggerated) time) - Please (not you Bulldog) stop picking this one statement of mine apart. NOT ALL LESBIANS are like this! My mistake in making such a generalization. (I'm done apologizing for this).