How to hypnotize a Butch...

[Dean Thoreau]

Originally Posted by morningstar55

lol Dean...........
im sorry for those whom did not find it humorus.....
didnt mean to offend.....
someone sent it to me and just wanted to share a lil chuckle....
i know everyone is different.

Morningstar,
There is no reason to be sorry. no matter what a person posts, or says , or does someone will find it insulting, annoying, politically incorrect, or some other something. that is life in the cosmos. And sometimes u just have to do three things:

1. say wtf
2. not be afraid to laugh at yourself
3. Look at it and say in the greater scheme of things does it really matter.

and sometimes u just have to put on your teflon suit and stand proud.
Morningstar..allow me to say that if by laughing at the website you posted I am now considered an insensitive, sexist, umannerly, stupid dick head.....so be it.....I am sure it will not be the last time....and frankly i dont give a

love ya morningstar and keep on postin funny stuff

Dean

[BullDog]

So many opportunities to address misogyny come up every day.
So many opportunities to reflect on the collective messages that get sent out constantly about women every day- see apretty's post.
So many opportunities to stand up and say no we aren't going to settle for this bullshit. We are better than this.
Hell, we are even funnier than this. A lot funnier.
Tick, tick, tick.

[Selenay]

http://www.mxfiles.kneib.biz/blubb.html

http://www.mxfiles.kneib.biz/drag_and_go_back_mask.html

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Dean Thoreau

Morningstar,
There is no reason to be sorry. no matter what a person posts, or says , or does someone will find it insulting, annoying, politically incorrect, or some other something. that is life in the cosmos. And sometimes u just have to do three things:

1. say wtf
2. not be afraid to laugh at yourself
3. Look at it and say in the greater scheme of things does it really matter.

and sometimes u just have to put on your teflon suit and stand proud.
Morningstar..allow me to say that if by laughing at the website you posted I am now considered an insensitive, sexist, umannerly, stupid dick head.....so be it.....I am sure it will not be the last time....and frankly i dont give a

love ya morningstar and keep on postin funny stuff

Dean

The truth is there is not a damn thing funny about any of these kind of images. Anyone who finds them funny really ought to do a bit of thinking about misogyny. Saying that anyone who objects to this crap is being politically correct is offensive on so many levels. Saying that I (or anyone) should somehow find these images as a way to laugh at myself is dishonest and lacks any kind of character.

How are you perpetuating misogyny by posting this crap? Why would crap like this hypnotize a butch? What are we butches.....a bunch of knuckle draggers who yuck it up over degrading and objectifying women?

Who in the hell would want to stand proud around this kind of degrading objectification of women?

Be warned. I will call out this shit every single time someone posts it.

I am truly truly sick and tired of this. I am truly not going to allow this to go on without saying something.

It would be my sincere hope that the administrators will do something to address misogyny on this website. I am also reporting the original post. I want everyone to know that.

[Dean Thoreau]

The truth is................. this thread is in the section called:
FUN FLUFF LIGHT...........................

and since we have been given a wonderful selection of smilies I will merely say:



it time to stop

and how long before PETA Butches or Femmes or Trans complain about the deadhorse smiley? dont you get it....no matter what anyone says someone wont like it! Its called having a little tolerance, and if you expect tolerance its a good idea to give it!

[Legendryder]

Wow. I gotta go look at those new smilies!! I love that dead horse one.

[Admin]

Sexism isnt a matter of someone's personal preference. It is an ingrained thought process and way of being that has to be actively worked on to overcome.

Is the video sexist? Yes.

Do I think Morningstar is a bad person? Nope. Quite the contrary, I think she is quite lovely.

Do we ALL need to think about how watching a random woman's torso wiggle reinforces the "it puts the lotion on it's skin" type of thinking? Yes.

When women's bodies are objectified as a disconnected body v. person dichotomy, it affects ALL of us. The disconnected body mindset helps contribute to sexual abuse, rape, assault, and sexual compromise.

It is simply NOT ok chalk humor that is based on sexism up to "just a joke", especially not on this site where women, queers, and genderfluid folks need to feel some semblance of respect.

I will be addressing this issue in another thread and the TOS.

Until then, (T-u-f-f-y), please understand that moderating people will not force an evolution in thinking. We have to find ways as a community to uplift one another without making it personal, ways to illustrate the damage that sexism causes to us, and ways to educate instead of separate. This CAN and WILL be done.

Admin

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Legendryder

Wow. I gotta go look at those new smilies!! I love that dead horse one.

yes exactly

Morningstar loves horses, she hasn't to my knowledge asked why we may find that smilie offensive, not once.


Its a matter of opinion and in MY opinion if this is up for debate open a new thread and get the hell off of the original poster of this thread.

[blush]

Originally Posted by Sassy_dee

yes exactly

Morningstar loves horses, she hasn't to my knowledge asked why we may find that smilie offensive, not once.


Its a matter of opinion and in MY opinion if this is up for debate open a new thread and get the hell off of the original poster of this thread.

Just for argument's sake, the dead horse emoticon is not offensive to me because it refers to the expression, "You're beating a dead horse." It actually implies it is useless to beat a dead horse because, well, it's already dead. Idiomatically, it refers to someone who will not let a "dead" topic go.

beating a dead horse

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by blush

Just for argument's sake, the dead horse emoticon is not offensive to me because it refers to the expression, "You're beating a dead horse." It actually implies it is useless to beat a dead horse because, well, it's already dead. Idiomatically, it refers to someone who will not let a "dead" topic go.

beating a dead horse

Thank you for that very insulting explanation of a cliche. I am well aware of what it means. Maybe the visual of a dead horse is offensive to me. Because its meant to be funny.. its ok.

Arwen, with all due respect you called someone in this thread a misogynistic jerk. I would venture to say that probably felt like an attack.

Damn right I defended Barb.

Now I'm done, completely. I am sad.

[QueenofQueens]

Originally Posted by Dean Thoreau

The truth is................. this thread is in the section called:
FUN FLUFF LIGHT...........................

and since we have been given a wonderful selection of smilies I will merely say:



it time to stop

and how long before PETA Butches or Femmes or Trans complain about the deadhorse smiley? dont you get it....no matter what anyone says someone wont like it! Its called having a little tolerance, and if you expect tolerance its a good idea to give it!

With all due respect, Dean, cruelty should never be tolerated. It should especially not ever be tolerated in the form of sexism and misogyny, especially not within the context of a queer website created by female bodied people. The link Morningstar posted is a subtle expression of violence toward women, which is what makes it unacceptable.

I know that Morningstar is a kind person who would not intentionally promote cruelty or perpetuate this type of damaging, sexist imagery. The problem with what she posted, is that women worldwide are still dehumanized and their bodies treated as objects every single day. Our only value, in many places, is measured as a sexual commodity. The type of image that Morningstar linked to, perpetuates this cycle and has no place in an equitable space that values women.

When we look at a picture that truncates a woman's head from her torso, she becomes nothing more than an object existing to facilitate the sexual pleasure of the dominant culture. She is, in essence a disposable collection of body parts. We don't even think about her parts as belonging to a real, whole, human being.

It's easy to giggle at silly shit in a superficial way without ever taking a minute to read a little deeper into its meaning. It's easy, but it doesn't change the very grim reality that so many women face every day, nor does it eradicate the deeply entrenched sexism and misogyny we've all been raised with.

Just take a minute to really think about what you're putting out there and who it might hurt. It will ultimately make all the difference in the world.

Respectfully,

QoQ

[Legendryder]

Originally Posted by QueenofQueens

With all due respect, Dean, cruelty should never be tolerated. It should especially not ever be tolerated in the form of sexism and misogyny, especially not within the context of a queer website created by female bodied people. The link Morningstar posted is a subtle expression of violence toward women, which is what makes it unacceptable.

I know that Morningstar is a kind person who would not intentionally promote cruelty or perpetuate this type of damaging, sexist imagery. The problem with what she posted, is that women worldwide are still dehumanized and their bodies treated as objects every single day. Our only value, in many places, is measured only as a sexual object. The type of image that Morningstar linked to perpetuates this cycle and has no place in an equitable space that values women.

When we look at a picture that truncates a woman's head from her torso, she becomes nothing more than an object existing to facilitate the sexual pleasure of the dominant culture. She is, in essence disposable. We don't even think about her parts as belonging to a real, whole, human being when we see it, because it's all we see.

It's easy to giggle at silly shit in a superficial way without ever taking a minute to read a little deeper into its meaning. It's easy, but it doesn't change the very grim reality that so many women face every day, nor does it eradicate the deeply entrenched sexism and misogyny we've all been raised with.

Just take a minute to really think about what you're putting out there and who it might hurt. It will ultimately make all the difference in the world.

Respectfully,

QoQ

Now this is the way to explain it. Thank you for your subtle and kind words.

[QueenofQueens]

Originally Posted by Legendryder

Now this is the way to explain it. Thank you for your subtle and kind words.

I think it's an important part of being a community member to be able to call each other out on our mistakes in a way that is respectful, and allows us to be human and grow.
No one should be vilified because there are things they need to learn. We all have things we need to learn and that will only happen if we respect each other enough to give a heads up when it's called for.

It's one way to have each others backs.

[Legendryder]

I agree with you, totally. I would say something mildly intelligent, however, I got my brain melted today. My goofy butt picked "Does Media in the Courtroom Effect 6th Amendment Rights" as an expository essay topic. I couldn't have picked the 14th Amendment, no......I had to pick the least relevant one. So, finding resorces to cite was like pulling teeth out of a horse. Took me eight hours to write a 500 word paper. So, I be fried.

[WILDCAT]

I just deleted a post I had written, by bumping something...?! Darn it!

In a nutshell, I DON'T care for that "beating a dead horse" emoticon - at all. And I'm personally glad there are programs/organizations for protecting animals against abuse, just sayin'...

Just goes to show ya, where we are all at different places in our realities with varying values and such... (and I think I have a pretty good sense of humor too).
___

And I also wrote that with ALL that has been hashed out in previous "community" sites on this type of topic or "issue of concern" over so many years, I would hope that a BRAND NEW SITE nips the sexist, anti-woman shit right away! Unfortunately, it will probably be an ongoing struggle though. Folks do need to speak out, or we just won't be as special as we truly know that we are. I'm proud to be queer.

It has all been so hurtful to so many - for WAY TOO LONG NOW. Is it worth a "laugh", that causes so much pain? And why would anyone be acting/feeling challenged here to anyone standing up against this? (Women feeling hurt, or someone thinking/believing something is uncomfortable for them to see or if it feels misogynist to them, that is.) What kind of energy is that to put out here, or anywhere? I don't understand that, really (?)

This site WAS started by two women, inviting everyone to join. How considerate.

Now, the link was not showing a rape, but yes to women as simply a piece of ass. That is where the atrocities against women are continually encouraged, with beginning disregard for being a human being at all, and often utilizing humor to get this message out "non-offensively"... (?) I didn't laugh at it, but can see how someone might find it humorous, the "joke" hypnotizing part of it... but, then where and why did we develop to finding this funny? That is what folks are asking others to consider and really think about here, IMHO. What perpetuates this mentality?

One way of thinking does lead to women being hurt, to varying degrees. It really does. Some ways are very "subtle". Is the blatant the only thing that needs to be addressed?

I don't want to support that, which is against me - and especially not in our community. I find it very sad actually.

And yes, this is just a "fun and fluff" thread. Passing a joke about is not the same as opening a thread - that is for the world now historically representing (NOT!) what the founders of this site are trying/hoping/wishing to send as a positive message in our community and to the world at large - or showing us "going at it" with each other over these kinds of demeaning against women topics. And for us also to have a respectful place, to and for ourselves. Feel safe. Comfort. Home away from home...

Plus, I believe if any part of our community is "hurt" we all suffer - in so many different ways. It diminishes us as a whole for one, that is for certain. We should be strong for having suffered, and this just further weakens us (again in my humble opinion). It's like throwing our own, to the "bad guys". How pleasant.

I truly hope some folks don't think new site = green light to come and be "piggish" and/or disregard people's feelings. That is so OLD. Changes should bring about new opportunities for growth and understanding, I would hope so anyway. (And this is not about the opening poster at all! Just my response about reactions and concerns folks have - which I completely understand, support and agree with.)

And I can see why some "butches" would also take offense to this on another level as well.

So, it's about sensitivity and "representing" mostly to me here at this point...(?)

Hope this made any sense. Good luck everyone!


PEACE!
Wildcat

[Toughy]

I truly appreciate all the reps I'm getting. Instead of repping me........why not post what you said to me in this thread.

--------
Thanks to the Admins for stepping up and addressing this. I look forward to the new thread and discussion and seeing how the TOS will address this.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Jack and Medusa,

Thank you. I know I struggle with oral and written communication. I know what I say comes out wrong or strangley sometimes. But I do appreciate what you are doing here. Thank you from my heart and soul. I don't feel alone anymore. I feel like I have a family again. When you are a shut-in, and have little to no bf community, you have no idea of how lonely it gets.

Love,
Andrew

[morningstar55]

all i can say .after reading all these response's is..
WOW!!
this was just so suppose to be just a lil funny thing to post...
its been posted in a lot of bf places.. and this is the 1st time. it has goten soo many negitive reviews........
i am sooooo sorry it offended some of you..... i say some
cause some did find it funny and some didnt
sometimes i feel i cant win for losing.......

[girl_dee]

I am completely outraged!

I cannot believe that after Morningstar ( yes a lovely member of OUR community ) apologized TWICE for posting something SOME people find offensive that she was still beat up over it. So it becomes a free for all?
Lets all pretend to be therapists and *counsel* the poster. WTF !!!!! Must be nice to live in glass houses.

I see LOTS of things done in the name of humor that are offensive, IMO.
Hell Wanda Sykes offended the hell out of me last night, I didn't beat her up because it was not funny IN MY OPINION. Some people probably thought she was hilarious.

I see LOTS of posts that I find offensive on ALL of the BF sites.. so I skip over them. I don't beat up the person who posted it! If its "not my cup of tea" I skip over it and I do LOTS of skipping.

Seeing that causes rape and sexual abuse? WTF is that about? I assure you that seeing that video does not *turn* someone into a rapist.

Morningstar I am very sorry this happened to you and I do believe if you were one of the *cool kids * this would NOT have happened to you.

Please don't stop trying to bring lighthearted humor to us. I find you a breath of fresh air among those of us that are wound up just too goddamn tight

[blush]

Originally Posted by Dean Thoreau

The truth is................. this thread is in the section called:
FUN FLUFF LIGHT...........................

and since we have been given a wonderful selection of smilies I will merely say:



it time to stop

and how long before PETA Butches or Femmes or Trans complain about the deadhorse smiley? dont you get it....no matter what anyone says someone wont like it! Its called having a little tolerance, and if you expect tolerance its a good idea to give it!

I think we've all tolerated enough of these kinds of threads and this kind of response. If we are going to move past the drooling butch stereotype, then we have to quit "tolerating" this type of humor.

IMO, this is flagrantly offensive. I have no beef with Morning, I don't know her. I do think this is a poor choice.