Strategic Voting

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by betenoire

edited to add: why the hell did I put this in the Red Zone? I am a stupidhead.

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[betenoire]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

[ModHat=On]
Do you want it moved to the Politics area?
[/ModHat]

I didn't know you were a mod! Now I have to play nice around you, too.

You can if you wanna. It's prolly a more appropriate area for it.

[Linus]

I was always in a toss-up as to whether to vote for my party of choice or what when I lived at home (Ottawa and Toronto areas). I was lucky that downtown Toronto was either Liberal or NDP. The reality is that the Liberals need to get off their asses and find a decent representative leader (the NDP will never end up in power after the Ontario NDP did their duty in power).

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Linus

I was always in a toss-up as to whether to vote for my party of choice or what when I lived at home (Ottawa and Toronto areas). I was lucky that downtown Toronto was either Liberal or NDP. The reality is that the Liberals need to get off their asses and find a decent representative leader (the NDP will never end up in power after the Ontario NDP did their duty in power).

Never say never! I think things are cyclical - and I really do believe that there will come a time (again!) that the people of Ontario are so tired of the evil Conservatives and the stupid Liberals that they'll give the NDP another crack at it.

It's really a shame about the Liberal party. They haven't had a decent leader since Jean Chrétien (say what you will about him, but I liked the guy), which is so clearly a big part of why we are in our current mess. Jesus, why is it so hard for them to come up with a frontman with more likability than Harper? That guy is such a shitstick!

God, did I really just admit that a good portion of winning votes (not MY vote, but votes in general) has to do with likability?

Lickability is good, too. That's how the US got Bill Clinton - he's a babe!

[Linus]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Never say never! I think things are cyclical - and I really do believe that there will come a time (again!) that the people of Ontario are so tired of the evil Conservatives and the stupid Liberals that they'll give the NDP another crack at it.

It's really a shame about the Liberal party. They haven't had a decent leader since Jean Chrétien (say what you will about him, but I liked the guy), which is so clearly a big part of why we are in our current mess. Jesus, why is it so hard for them to come up with a frontman with more likability than Harper? That guy is such a shitstick!

God, did I really just admit that a good portion of winning votes (not MY vote, but votes in general) has to do with likability?

Lickability is good, too. That's how the US got Bill Clinton - he's a babe!

The question is who's likeability? The local MP or the PM? It appears that the Conservatives are on a rise right now, especially with the economy on an upswing. Harper is and always will be a Bush wannabe. I would still prefer the Green party to the NDP but that's a personal preference (I dislike that unions protect workers who don't do their job because they don't want to, not because of illness or what-have-you).

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Linus

The question is who's likeability? The local MP or the PM? It appears that the Conservatives are on a rise right now, especially with the economy on an upswing. Harper is and always will be a Bush wannabe. I would still prefer the Green party to the NDP but that's a personal preference (I dislike that unions protect workers who don't do their job because they don't want to, not because of illness or what-have-you).

The PM, really. I think most people do vote based on the PM rather than the local MP. That's probably wrong to do, but there you have it. It's hard to separate the person running for PM from the person who is in your local riding - and so it should be. It's the seats from all those little ridings that declares the PM.

I guess I'm not as concerned about local politics as I should be. And I guess I pretty clearly vote along party lines - as I'm sure most people do.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Linus

I would still prefer the Green party to the NDP but that's a personal preference (I dislike that unions protect workers who don't do their job because they don't want to, not because of illness or what-have-you).

I forgot to comment on this part.

I like unions. I get the fear of unions "protecting the lazy worker" - but I also get that that's pretty much a catchphrase that anti-union people love. I would rather have all workers protected (even the ones who may not deserve protection) than to have no workers protected at all.

God, if the place where my spouse worked was unionised they would have never had the opportunity to fuck him over as thoroughly as they did.

(Backstory - Nick needed a knee replacement. Nick has a knee replacement. His employer wanted him back at work 2 weeks after surgery. 2 weeks go by and he goes to his doc who says "no way!" and fills out some extension of leave forms. Nick brings the forms to work. Nick gets fired for having to take off more time than they felt like letting him take. That shit is just WRONG. And it happens regularly. Honest people need protection from shitty employers. I am done derailing now.)

[Linus]

Originally Posted by betenoire

The PM, really. I think most people do vote based on the PM rather than the local MP. That's probably wrong to do, but there you have it. It's hard to separate the person running for PM from the person who is in your local riding - and so it should be. It's the seats from all those little ridings that declares the PM.

I guess I'm not as concerned about local politics as I should be. And I guess I pretty clearly vote along party lines - as I'm sure most people do.

I don't know if that's true any more. I mean, the NDP thing wasn't an aberration and resulted in a pretty swift and interesting change in Canadian politics as a whole. I think some do vote based on how well they are represented, some based on the choices of leader and some based on some other factor (e.g., party lines, etc.).

**Note: I was trying to see if there was a poll/stat about voting patterns but I can't find it. I know there was one done in the 90s but I don't think anyone has done a recent study to see how it's changed (I think today it's all about who can convince you that your bottom line will look better than the Jones next door).

Originally Posted by betenoire

I forgot to comment on this part.

I like unions. I get the fear of unions "protecting the lazy worker" - but I also get that that's pretty much a catchphrase that anti-union people love. I would rather have all workers protected (even the ones who may not deserve protection) than to have no workers protected at all.

God, if the place where my spouse worked was unionised they would have never had the opportunity to fuck him over as thoroughly as they did.

I was part of a union when I was a professor. And yet.. not part. Because I was a contract professor (Seneca College in Toronto), I had to pay dues but wasn't represented by the union (uh..?!). Additionally, my attempts to get tenure or permanent professor status was blocked by the union even though there were quite a few professors that didn't know how to teach and had limited knowledge of what they taught. The school had a shortage of good professors, many were about to retire, students said they learned lots from me, colleagues liked me, the bosses liked me but the union said no.

Overall I like the idea of unions (much like a lot of socialized things). However, many have turned into a capitalist venture and aren't really there for the average worker.

(Backstory - Nick needed a knee replacement. Nick has a knee replacement. His employer wanted him back at work 2 weeks after surgery. 2 weeks go by and he goes to his doc who says "no way!" and fills out some extension of leave forms. Nick brings the forms to work. Nick gets fired for having to take off more time than they felt like letting him take. That shit is just WRONG. And it happens regularly. Honest people need protection from shitty employers. I am done derailing now.)

What about Workman's Comp? I thought it was their job to protect against this kind of stuff?


I think the Rhino Party needs to make a comeback. That or Marg, Princess Warrior needs to run for PM.