Who will the newest SUPREME COURT Justice? What is the Strategy?

Soon · 05-10-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martina

Yeah, but human too. NOw, if she IS gay, it really is sad. If not, just a mother wanting her daughter to have a husband. Ironic since the mother was sick and widowed. The belief that a partner will save you from living and dying alone clearly had not been proven true for her, but . . .

i am sure she just wanted happiness for her daughter. i hope.

i personally think that big-time strivers often lead very unbalanced lives. i am glad they exist. They bring good things into our lives. Obama seems to have it all. But it IS harder for women. And that's a fact.

One of my friends is a Dean of a college. She has an illustrious career by my friends' standards, but her husband had to pretty much sacrifice his because they have children. They moved from state to state, and it's a major hassle to get your teaching credential accepted by other states. So my friend, a teacher, taught part time at community colleges and did all kinds of jobs. Right now he is a case worker at a children's mental hospital. This is a guy who was BORN to be a teacher of students with special needs. i sometimes think of all the kids he didn't help. BUT i also see the two wonderful kids he raised for the most part. So, i don't know.

i thought the article was kinda cute. Real. Again, unless she's a dyke, and then it's a whole nother tale to tell.

Hmm..I see it differently--lesbian or not.

What I find sad is that what was most important to her mother was NOT her daughter's amazing accomplishments, but that she hadn't fulfilled what she thought was necessary to be a true success--married.

UofMfan · 05-10-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Hmm..I see it differently--lesbian or not.

What I find sad is that what was most important to her mother was NOT her daughter's amazing accomplishments, but that she hadn't fulfilled what she thought was necessary to be a true success--married.

I agree. It speaks volumes.

Martina · 05-10-2010, 06:34 PM

i dunno. i am a feminist, but i think that putting career first, while a fine choice, is not something that should be celebrated as an absolutely noble act.

And i can understand how family members might feel a loss -- the loss of grandchildren, of time spent with the family, etc.

However, who knows?

MsDemeanor · 05-10-2010, 07:08 PM

When even I'm thinking "would we have this conversation about a single man appointed to the bench", something is seriously wrong.

Martina · 05-10-2010, 07:25 PM

The fact is that the culture is having this converstation. And i am too. People like her freak me the fuck out -- whether male or female.

She is the classic striver. Classic. So is Obama. i am glad they exist. They are good enough to manage to convince the banal and the conservative that they have a right to exist and to exist at the top. And we need them there. Some of them manage to have some kind of balance. i really hope Obama is one of them. Some of them are all about the trip to the top and have nothing to offer once they're there. If this woman is one of them, we will know within a year or two.

Most of them, male and female, whether married or single, have limited lives. i find that scary.

i do not celebrate that kind of ambition. i do not hold it up as a role model for young women. God help us if that's what we have to do to be successful and to make a difference. Fortunately, it's not.

Before the kind of media scrutiny and party polarization we have now, ordinary flawed qualified people could attain these heights. Now, not so much. Now if you don't toe the line almost your entire life, with your eyes on the prize, you are not gonna make it. i am amazed and happy that Obama did that. i will hopefully be glad that she has done it. i think it's weird human behavior though, and i am really sorry our culture seems to require it.

Martina · 05-10-2010, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

When even I'm thinking "would we have this conversation about a single man appointed to the bench", something is seriously wrong.

Our talking about it is NOT the problem. The problem is that men can marry and have children and still pretty much devote their lives to their career. It's unusual for a woman to be in this position.

And my point is that it's fucked up for ANYBODY to do that, family or not. It's insane. You gotta have a scary lust for power to carry it off. Those people scare me shitless. Including Obama. But i like his politics, and it takes that kind of committment to succeed at those heights for an African American or a woman. It takes a lot of it for anybody to succeed at that level these days. But do i like or trust people like that? HELL NO. FUCK NO.

AtLast · 05-10-2010, 11:11 PM

My thoughts here go to the generational differences between mother & daughter.... and to the fact that many women do not have positive relationships with their mothers, especially around the these generational opinions of what constitutes fulfillment for women.

Like so many accomplished women in what remains a man's world (let's not lid ourselves), Kagan is driven and most likely had to make many decisions to get where she has been and is going that put aside things like marriage (same-sex or otherwise) or having children (as a partnered or single woman).

Hummmm.... speaking to balance (Martina brought this up).... her ability to hear other's opinions prior to making her own tells me she has good communication skills. Read or listen to some of her presentations to the Supreme Court. She also includes key points of understanding of what a justice stated prior to making her point back. I don't believe she is driven beyond being human... I think she actually took care of herself in building her career and not trying to be super woman. Unless you do have a supportive partner (one a whole hell of a lot of money) that does share with all of that has to get done in life, trying to do it all is not a healthy road for everyone in these kinds of professions. Then again, I tend to be pro-partnership/marriage- as long as it is one in which there is sharing of labor! Not everyone is.

Something that is bothering me is her record at Harvard in hiring so many non-POC in tenure-track positions. Then again, as the first female Dean, I'm sure she had her share of criticism and every single hire was scrutinized.

Personally, I’m glad she has not been on the bench. Guess that’s up for debate.

I am not thrilled with Kagan’s appointment overall, however. Too middle of the road for me. And she just doesn’t strike me as a champion of civil liberties, especially concerning detainees as in Gitmo. I feel like Obama played it safe, again….

Just have to study her more, I guess. Right now all of the initially criticisms are being spewed. Sounds like there are some issues about her ideas about the First Amendment.... Dunno...[/COLOR][/FONT]

Soon · 05-11-2010, 05:37 AM

A Liberal Analysis of Elena Kagan

Outlaw · 05-12-2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

When even I'm thinking "would we have this conversation about a single man appointed to the bench", something is seriously wrong.

Similar: The speculation around the appointment of David Souter, a single man.

Dissimilar: The discussion of stance, and not the political one...Softball Photo

MsDemeanor · 05-14-2010, 02:06 AM

TPM video about the softball pic [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSyOEnerVQc&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Cable News Wonders: If A Judicial Nominee Plays Softball, Does That Make Her Gay?[/nomedia]

AtLast · 05-14-2010, 04:41 PM

Simply for the hell of it, what are some of the attributes people see as important for a Supreme Court justice?

Sure, I have my own political stances, but I am thinking about things like temperament and character as well as what kind of class background someone has. I know I have a bias toward justices having some semblance to more working class experiences. Or, middle-class that reflects not being born into there being no doubt that one will have the opportunity for higher education, let alone being able to go to Ivy schools.

When I think of myself in terms of things like temperament- I would have to say that I would not vote to confirm me! I would not be able to look at constitutional matters without getting fired-up about certain things. So, when I try to appraise these nominees, I do think about this. And of course, I think about political ideologies. Then there is just one’s ability to think critically and apply abstract reasoning.

What say you all? Boot me in the butt, I don’t care, I want to view the hearings with some new stuff to think about.

AtLast · 05-15-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

TPM video about the softball pic YouTube- Cable News Wonders: If A Judicial Nominee Plays Softball, Does That Make Her Gay?

GeezUsFuckingchrist!

05-10-2010, 07:08 PM	#4
MsDemeanor Member How Do You Identify?: queer stone femme Relationship Status: Happily married to MisterMeanor, the man of my dreams Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 703 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 165 Thanked 1,852 Times in 511 Posts Rep Power: 2698181	When even I'm thinking "would we have this conversation about a single man appointed to the bench", something is seriously wrong. __________________ artisan jewelry jewelry gallery

05-11-2010, 05:37 AM	#8
Soon Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Relationship Status: attached Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: . Posts: 6,896 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 29,046 Thanked 13,093 Times in 3,386 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	By Emma Ruby-Sachs A Liberal Analysis of Elena Kagan

05-14-2010, 02:06 AM	#10
MsDemeanor Member How Do You Identify?: queer stone femme Relationship Status: Happily married to MisterMeanor, the man of my dreams Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 703 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 165 Thanked 1,852 Times in 511 Posts Rep Power: 2698181	TPM video about the softball pic [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSyOEnerVQc&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Cable News Wonders: If A Judicial Nominee Plays Softball, Does That Make Her Gay?[/nomedia] __________________ artisan jewelry jewelry gallery

05-10-2010, 06:34 PM	#3
Martina Senior Member How Do You Identify?: * Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: * Posts: 4,999 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,409 Thanked 18,284 Times in 4,166 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	i dunno. i am a feminist, but i think that putting career first, while a fine choice, is not something that should be celebrated as an absolutely noble act. And i can understand how family members might feel a loss -- the loss of grandchildren, of time spent with the family, etc. However, who knows?

05-10-2010, 07:25 PM	#5
Martina Senior Member How Do You Identify?: * Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: * Posts: 4,999 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,409 Thanked 18,284 Times in 4,166 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	The fact is that the culture is having this converstation. And i am too. People like her freak me the fuck out -- whether male or female. She is the classic striver. Classic. So is Obama. i am glad they exist. They are good enough to manage to convince the banal and the conservative that they have a right to exist and to exist at the top. And we need them there. Some of them manage to have some kind of balance. i really hope Obama is one of them. Some of them are all about the trip to the top and have nothing to offer once they're there. If this woman is one of them, we will know within a year or two. Most of them, male and female, whether married or single, have limited lives. i find that scary. i do not celebrate that kind of ambition. i do not hold it up as a role model for young women. God help us if that's what we have to do to be successful and to make a difference. Fortunately, it's not. Before the kind of media scrutiny and party polarization we have now, ordinary flawed qualified people could attain these heights. Now, not so much. Now if you don't toe the line almost your entire life, with your eyes on the prize, you are not gonna make it. i am amazed and happy that Obama did that. i will hopefully be glad that she has done it. i think it's weird human behavior though, and i am really sorry our culture seems to require it.

05-10-2010, 11:11 PM	#7
AtLast Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Woman Preferred Pronoun?: HER - SHE Relationship Status: Relating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird Posts: 5,408 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,826 Thanked 10,827 Times in 3,199 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	My thoughts here go to the generational differences between mother & daughter.... and to the fact that many women do not have positive relationships with their mothers, especially around the these generational opinions of what constitutes fulfillment for women. Like so many accomplished women in what remains a man's world (let's not lid ourselves), Kagan is driven and most likely had to make many decisions to get where she has been and is going that put aside things like marriage (same-sex or otherwise) or having children (as a partnered or single woman). Hummmm.... speaking to balance (Martina brought this up).... her ability to hear other's opinions prior to making her own tells me she has good communication skills. Read or listen to some of her presentations to the Supreme Court. She also includes key points of understanding of what a justice stated prior to making her point back. I don't believe she is driven beyond being human... I think she actually took care of herself in building her career and not trying to be super woman. Unless you do have a supportive partner (one a whole hell of a lot of money) that does share with all of that has to get done in life, trying to do it all is not a healthy road for everyone in these kinds of professions. Then again, I tend to be pro-partnership/marriage- as long as it is one in which there is sharing of labor! Not everyone is. Something that is bothering me is her record at Harvard in hiring so many non-POC in tenure-track positions. Then again, as the first female Dean, I'm sure she had her share of criticism and every single hire was scrutinized. Personally, I’m glad she has not been on the bench. Guess that’s up for debate. I am not thrilled with Kagan’s appointment overall, however. Too middle of the road for me. And she just doesn’t strike me as a champion of civil liberties, especially concerning detainees as in Gitmo. I feel like Obama played it safe, again…. Just have to study her more, I guess. Right now all of the initially criticisms are being spewed. Sounds like there are some issues about her ideas about the First Amendment.... Dunno...[/COLOR][/FONT]

05-14-2010, 04:41 PM	#11
AtLast Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Woman Preferred Pronoun?: HER - SHE Relationship Status: Relating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird Posts: 5,408 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,826 Thanked 10,827 Times in 3,199 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	Simply for the hell of it, what are some of the attributes people see as important for a Supreme Court justice? Sure, I have my own political stances, but I am thinking about things like temperament and character as well as what kind of class background someone has. I know I have a bias toward justices having some semblance to more working class experiences. Or, middle-class that reflects not being born into there being no doubt that one will have the opportunity for higher education, let alone being able to go to Ivy schools. When I think of myself in terms of things like temperament- I would have to say that I would not vote to confirm me! I would not be able to look at constitutional matters without getting fired-up about certain things. So, when I try to appraise these nominees, I do think about this. And of course, I think about political ideologies. Then there is just one’s ability to think critically and apply abstract reasoning. What say you all? Boot me in the butt, I don’t care, I want to view the hearings with some new stuff to think about.