Femme Led Relationships and Trans/Butch/Femme Bottoms

[Liam]

Perhaps you could clarify something for me, I'm confused about the derision you experience. Are the guilty parties primarily outside of the leather/bdsm community? Or have things changed? I had to serve as a bottom, before I could call myself a top, a practice which made sound sense to me, one of the many reasons being, to impress upon me, that a bottom is never less than.

[Isadora]

Originally Posted by Liam

Perhaps you could clarify something for me, I'm confused about the derision you experience. Are the guilty parties primarily outside of the leather/bdsm community? Or have things changed? I had to serve as a bottom, before I could call myself a top, a practice which made sound sense to me, one of the many reasons being, to impress upon me, that a bottom is never less than.

It has been my experience that TNG is more fluid in their expression of their leather/kink identities and how they flow back and forth is no less leather than those whose role is set. I think things have changed, as all things flow between new ideas/lives and "traditions". However, I think that I have heard way too many Tops/Doms who have never bottomed be less then respectful to the bottom dynamic in other butches. It has occurred to me that serving also is a lesson in appreciation, but it is also not a necessarily stepping stone to top. While some bois are switchy, some are not. I agree, Liam, I can almost always tell the different perspective when you have experienced serving.

Since I love age play with bois, it becomes even more edgy to be a bottom boi. Not only are women "less then sexual" as Momma, the boi is pushed and misunderstood in hys boi self. The Momma/boi dynamic is deeply intimate and even more marginalized from the larger D/s, Daddy/boi/girl community. There is nothing that brings out the Momma Bear in me then fucking with my boi's 12 year old self. Respect the bottom who consents with complete understanding to the life we agree upon (as Toughy says negotiation and communication are paramount) especially when playing psychologically with age dynamics and sexuality.

One of the other things that always bothers me is that a lot of the butch Tops I know would be horrified and angry if someone approached their femme bottom with propositions, nasty comments, corrections and derision. Yet, it has happened to everyone of my bois. It is sad that being a boi somehow you have to "butch it up" and that telling me about hys experience is "tattle-telling" not being transparent to hys Top. The double standard floors me...but as we continue to realize that misogyny has deep and tangled roots, we recognize and hopefully change our behavior to be most respectful of all relationships.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Weatherboi,

I did not know you were with Lady Snow. This is news to me. Nobody said so much as boo to me.

Andrew

[Liam]

Originally Posted by Isadora

It has been my experience that TNG is more fluid in their expression of their leather/kink identities and how they flow back and forth is no less leather than those whose role is set. I think things have changed, as all things flow between new ideas/lives and "traditions". However, I think that I have heard way too many Tops/Doms who have never bottomed be less then respectful to the bottom dynamic in other butches. It has occurred to me that serving also is a lesson in appreciation, but it is also not a necessarily stepping stone to top. While some bois are switchy, some are not. I agree, Liam, I can almost always tell the different perspective when you have experienced serving.

Since I love age play with bois, it becomes even more edgy to be a bottom boi. Not only are women "less then sexual" as Momma, the boi is pushed and misunderstood in hys boi self. The Momma/boi dynamic is deeply intimate and even more marginalized from the larger D/s, Daddy/boi/girl community. There is nothing that brings out the Momma Bear in me then fucking with my boi's 12 year old self. Respect the bottom who consents with complete understanding to the life we agree upon (as Toughy says negotiation and communication are paramount) especially when playing psychologically with age dynamics and sexuality.

One of the other things that always bothers me is that a lot of the butch Tops I know would be horrified and angry if someone approached their femme bottom with propositions, nasty comments, corrections and derision. Yet, it has happened to everyone of my bois. It is sad that being a boi somehow you have to "butch it up" and that telling me about hys experience is "tattle-telling" not being transparent to hys Top. The double standard floors me...but as we continue to realize that misogyny has deep and tangled roots, we recognize and hopefully change our behavior to be most respectful of all relationships.

Thank you for the kindness and courtesy of your reply, Isa. This also explains some interactions/observations I have had, that made me twitch.

[WingsOnFire]

Originally Posted by Isadora

It has been my experience that TNG is more fluid in their expression of their leather/kink identities and how they flow back and forth is no less leather than those whose role is set. I think things have changed, as all things flow between new ideas/lives and "traditions". However, I think that I have heard way too many Tops/Doms who have never bottomed be less then respectful to the bottom dynamic in other butches. It has occurred to me that serving also is a lesson in appreciation, but it is also not a necessarily stepping stone to top. While some bois are switchy, some are not. I agree, Liam, I can almost always tell the different perspective when you have experienced serving.

Since I love age play with bois, it becomes even more edgy to be a bottom boi. Not only are women "less then sexual" as Momma, the boi is pushed and misunderstood in hys boi self. The Momma/boi dynamic is deeply intimate and even more marginalized from the larger D/s, Daddy/boi/girl community. There is nothing that brings out the Momma Bear in me then fucking with my boi's 12 year old self. Respect the bottom who consents with complete understanding to the life we agree upon (as Toughy says negotiation and communication are paramount) especially when playing psychologically with age dynamics and sexuality.

This is very much true Isadora...Mommy/boy(i) is something I have seen far more taboo in any site I have been on. It is sad that people dont always respect the bottom for what they consent to in their relationship. The negotiation is between the bottom and their top. No one else has the right to judge that but unfortunately some people feel they do... This Momma Bear watches over and protects her boy fiercely. I love that he trusts me to let him be the little boy when he wants to be in that space and knows that I will keep him safe just as Daddy keeps my babygirl safe. I dont care what others think of me as Mommy... I care what my boy thinks of me as Mommy... If hes happy then I am happy..


One of the other things that always bothers me is that a lot of the butch Tops I know would be horrified and angry if someone approached their femme bottom with propositions, nasty comments, corrections and derision. Yet, it has happened to everyone of my bois. It is sad that being a boi somehow you have to "butch it up" and that telling me about hys experience is "tattle-telling" not being transparent to hys Top. The double standard floors me...but as we continue to realize that misogyny has deep and tangled roots, we recognize and hopefully change our behavior to be most respectful of all relationships.

I have to agree wholeheartedly with this statement... I have seen some pretty hard hurtful comments made about many types of relationships... It would be nice to see some of that attitude changed to allow everyone the right to be who "they" want to be.

I have really enjoyed reading your comments and insight into this subject. Thanks!

Becca

[weatherboi]

hi Liam-
the *derision* i experinece is not within my leather community. it is specific to the butch femme community.

with permission from my Ms i will share an experience with you. i was lucky enough to get to escort her to a butch femme event not to long ago. previous to arriving the Ms understood my excitement for this would be my first butch femme event. i was particularly excited about meeting specific people. upon arrival of the event i was introduced to a butch friend of hers that i genuinely looked forward to meeting. he was very dismissive and as the night went on he was even more disrespectful. when my Ms discussed it with me later we understood together it was an experience that stems from him seeing me as less. i mean do you really think he would have acted this way with a trans that was a Dom or Top?? so in essence not only did his behavior dis me but it dissed my Ms in a misogynistic way...why??
because i would bet he would never treat a butch friend and his girl that way. i felt more bad for my Ms honestly!!

Originally Posted by Liam

Perhaps you could clarify something for me, I'm confused about the derision you experience. Are the guilty parties primarily outside of the leather/bdsm community? Or have things changed? I had to serve as a bottom, before I could call myself a top, a practice which made sound sense to me, one of the many reasons being, to impress upon me, that a bottom is never less than.

[SuperFemme]

I wonder if it is really common for subs/bois to meet people that know their Dom/Top and suddenly this person you've never met is acting like you are there to service them? Like you are a community sub or something. I've seen it in action and I have been horrified every time. The only one with an excuse was the 17 year old who has NO clue about life, and she was quickly schooled.

But is that common? If so how do you deal with it?

[Martina]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I wonder if it is really common for subs/bois to meet people that know their Dom/Top and suddenly this person you've never met is acting like you are there to service them? Like you are a community sub or something. I've seen it in action and I have been horrified every time. The only one with an excuse was the 17 year old who has NO clue about life, and she was quickly schooled.

But is that common? If so how do you deal with it?

It's not common. i have seen it happen too. But, no, i don't think it's common. People will hold back from interacting with others' subs in leather contexts, but you can show warmth and kindness and stay in leather protocols -- without any problem. The thing i like about leather is that other people's comfort comes before protocol. If someone is new or visiting, one is not supposed to make them feel uncomfortable if they make mistakes. i like that.