The Femme Continuum: The "Highs" and "Lows" of Visibility

[SuperFemme]

I will go first.
How about being told that you are "butch".
I have heard this in a jovial/joking manner in reference to my..uh...type A personality. As if being forceful, determined, or smart is somehow a butch trait.

I don't take it as a compliment. Same with somebody throwing around the word: Toppy or Topping when I am forceful, determined or smart.

I hope that this makes sense and doesn't feel like I am saying that *butch* is an insult in general. I'm not.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I wonder what are the ways that Femme's feel umm...femmasculated?
Like how does it look when someone takes a swipe at your femininity?
Because I don't think it looks the same as emasculating.

Maybe it doesn't look the same as emasculating, but it's just as hurtful.

I will gleefully scratch at the eyes of anybody who questions the femininity or femmeness of myself or my pretty lady friends. Particularly since that questioning is always (fucking always!) in response to us showing our strength, our brains, out independence.

Fuck That.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Maybe it doesn't look the same as emasculating, but it's just as hurtful.

I will gleefully scratch at the eyes of anybody who questions the femininity or femmeness of myself or my pretty lady friends. Particularly since that questioning is always (fucking always!) in response to us showing our strength, our brains, out independence.

Fuck That.

Right? You make me love you. I'll send you cash for that pizza m'kay?

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Maybe it doesn't look the same as emasculating, but it's just as hurtful.

I will gleefully scratch at the eyes of anybody who questions the femininity or femmeness of myself or my pretty lady friends. Particularly since that questioning is always (fucking always!) in response to us showing our strength, our brains, out independence.

Fuck That.

She said it best

FUCK THAT...

Another thing I have heard..

All you need is a nice butch so you can settle down...

Um no I don't and I sure the fuck ain't gonna settle....

[betenoire]

Yeah, settling is something that debris does.

[SuperFemme]

How about the look of amazement when you put together an Ikea cabinet or use a power tool on something? Like it's a big huge deal...OR a look of horror if you announce you do not like shopping. Or shoes.

[Tommi]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

How about the look of amazement when you put together an Ikea cabinet or use a power tool on something? Like it's a big huge deal...OR a look of horror if you announce you do not like shopping. Or shoes.

Or when she lifts the suitcase out of the trunk wehn your back is turned, like it was heavy as a newspaper

sneaking in under the cover of Pacific Daylight TIme

[blush]

One of the most offensive things for me(and it sounds like many other femmes in here too) is the long definitions of "what a femme is." Usually it's followed by the assessment of me as a femme.

[apretty]

i've experienced more attempts at perpetuating femme-hierarchy when getting to know less attractive and stupid butches.

my experience. me. only.

and to be totally fair--i'm SURE that their attractiveness fell from possibly average to *no way* once they began to offer their unsolicited and absurd insights on high-femme (which i don't think exists and they were sure entailed a demure smile, heels and stockings 24/7), relationships (i'm not a so-called 'natural' submissive because they were ill equipped for someone such as myself), and i could go on...

so, perhaps it's that i find intelligence *highly* sexy that i can't quite separate my disgust of the thoughts from the one doing the thinking--but i have found myself in these situations a few times and it's always presented to me in a way to try to knock me down to their size, like 'i'll fuck you but just so's you know...' trying so hard to mask their insecurity at sitting across from me:

oh, you're very attractive, if a little young... and perhaps not what i normally go for (as fucking IF) and i will do you, though you clearly lack real *experience* so you'd better hold on to your seat, little miss--and normally, i date high femmes--oh what are those? those are femmes who wear nylons and high heels, i have an ex who wore heels every day.... (wistful pause) and skirts--you know those tight skirts? ...yes, that's it--pencil skirt.... (implying that my totally cute outfit isn't drag-enough for the pizza place/diner/hole in the wall) wait. where are you going?"

see? not attractive + stupid = not getting any.

[apretty]

on the other hand--

i ADORE doing the 'femme' stuff with another femme--i don't feel competitive, i feel supported and love to give support.

i am grateful that i have a local friend who i met (through mack!), and we can discuss the real stuff as well as get absolutely stupid in 'bath and body' saying, 'oh HONEYYYY look at this new DOUCHE!!!' really loud. (really, poor tiger!)

and about the butch that creates this femme-continuum/perpetuates the myth of high vs. low femme (can i be teenage slut femme??) --i've never felt so ERASED. and not accidentally, not the way society sees everything in M or f... more so an attempt to deliberately erase my *femme* entirely.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by apretty

i've experienced more attempts at perpetuating femme-hierarchy when getting to know less attractive and stupid butches.

my experience. me. only.

and to be totally fair--i'm SURE that their attractiveness fell from possibly average to *no way* once they began to offer their unsolicited and absurd insights on high-femme (which i don't think exists and they were sure entailed a demure smile, heels and stockings 24/7), relationships (i'm not a so-called 'natural' submissive because they were ill equipped for someone such as myself), and i could go on...

so, perhaps it's that i find intelligence *highly* sexy that i can't quite separate my disgust of the thoughts from the one doing the thinking--but i have found myself in these situations a few times and it's always presented to me in a way to try to knock me down to their size, like 'i'll fuck you but just so's you know...' trying so hard to mask their insecurity at sitting across from me:

oh, you're very attractive, if a little young... and perhaps not what i normally go for (as fucking IF) and i will do you, though you clearly lack real *experience* so you'd better hold on to your seat, little miss--and normally, i date high femmes--oh what are those? those are femmes who wear nylons and high heels, i have an ex who wore heels every day.... (wistful pause) and skirts--you know those tight skirts? ...yes, that's it--pencil skirt.... (implying that my totally cute outfit isn't drag-enough for the pizza place/diner/hole in the wall) wait. where are you going?"

see? not attractive + stupid = not getting any.

Do you have to embarrass me in public like this?

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by apretty

i've experienced more attempts at perpetuating femme-hierarchy when getting to know less attractive and stupid butches.

my experience. me. only.

and to be totally fair--i'm SURE that their attractiveness fell from possibly average to *no way* once they began to offer their unsolicited and absurd insights on high-femme (which i don't think exists and they were sure entailed a demure smile, heels and stockings 24/7), relationships (i'm not a so-called 'natural' submissive because they were ill equipped for someone such as myself), and i could go on...

so, perhaps it's that i find intelligence *highly* sexy that i can't quite separate my disgust of the thoughts from the one doing the thinking--but i have found myself in these situations a few times and it's always presented to me in a way to try to knock me down to their size, like 'i'll fuck you but just so's you know...' trying so hard to mask their insecurity at sitting across from me:

oh, you're very attractive, if a little young... and perhaps not what i normally go for (as fucking IF) and i will do you, though you clearly lack real *experience* so you'd better hold on to your seat, little miss--and normally, i date high femmes--oh what are those? those are femmes who wear nylons and high heels, i have an ex who wore heels every day.... (wistful pause) and skirts--you know those tight skirts? ...yes, that's it--pencil skirt.... (implying that my totally cute outfit isn't drag-enough for the pizza place/diner/hole in the wall) wait. where are you going?"

see? not attractive + stupid = not getting any.

What do you mean you don't do "heels and stockings 24/7"???

[The_Lady_Snow]

I love to participate in cunnulingus, I do, I have heard from my peers this makes me not so femme..

I say the hell with that..

oh and yes I said cunnulingus and no I have no gender preference when it comes down to it..

<cleaning gear on in case

[Apocalipstic]

When I think of High Femme, it involves Mary Jane and Cookies.

I don't even know ANY women who wear nylons and pencil skirts 24/7. Zero.
It cracks me up when someone says they are looking for a Femme like that, cause that search is going to lead to dissapointing results!

[Martina]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I love to participate in cunnulingus, I do, I have heard from my peers this makes me not so femme..

I say the hell with that..

oh and yes I said cunnulingus and no I have no gender preference when it comes down to it..

<cleaning gear on in case

Thinking of those femmes missing out. Unless this is a true sexual boundary (one just can't imagine doing it), it's amazing to me that anyone would give up all this good stuff up for no better reason than it's not femme????

How sadly self-punishing of someone not to try out something to see if they really like it, but to obey some internalized sexist rule. Boy, that's a case where our gender categories sure aren't liberating. What's next, femme purdah?

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I love to participate in cunnulingus, I do, I have heard from my peers this makes me not so femme..

I say the hell with that..

oh and yes I said cunnulingus and no I have no gender preference when it comes down to it..

<cleaning gear on in case

Me too!

I think it hurts me the most when the shock & awe comes from other Femmes. I tend to keep quiet during gatherings when the convo turns to sexual stuff. Which is kind of sad.

[ravfem]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I love to participate in cunnulingus, I do, I have heard from my peers this makes me not so femme..

I say the hell with that..

oh and yes I said cunnulingus and no I have no gender preference when it comes down to it..

<cleaning gear on in case

i have to admit i buy into some "femme roles" as well as some "butch roles",
but oral sex has never been one of them! i mean, hello!!

What's gender/personal identity got to do with enjoying any form of sex?

i will admit that i personally have little experience with cunnulingus, mainly because the majority of my partners have been stone. But....i'm um....beginning to expand my horizons with Daddy, and omg the thought just sends me!! and i cannot believe i am admitting this for the world to see! i'm a prude, really.

[SassyLeo]

I use She/Her

Because of my strong willed/assertive/bossy way, I have been teased at various points.... mostly by a friend or in the community as a joke kind of thing among Femmes. No worries there.

I know a few lesbian identified friend couples who are not "into" the Butch Femme community... once in a while one will say something about the other sort of off the cuff, like - "oh my girlfriend totally butched it up last weekend and fixed water heater" or "my partner totally dragged it up for an interview...she wore a woman's pantsuit"

If this is out how they talk about themselves in the privacy of their own relationship, that's fine. If they do it because they don't necessarily know any better, ok I'll give them that.

But if someone in the community (not a friend) called my bossiness butch-y or if I told a story about doing something that was "considered" masculine and they labeled it butch-y, I would be irked.