Gender Wars - A Femme's Perspective

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

As a general statement, I feel that there is a ton of "blame the Femme's " going on, which both angers me, and amuses me, because I see that, as a manifestation of that oft referenced sexism and misogyny
Now I will read everyone else's answers..

YES! Women being the root of all evil in the world and all - Quick! Someone get an apple and offer it to the first Butch you see! Oooh, and then dress seductively and stand on the rocky shores and lure in the poor unsuspecting sailors! AND THEN, when you're done with that, take away the virtual pee-pee's of other people by merely talking about you're ability to change a tire, open your own damn door, build your own house, clean your own gutters, or (GASP) form an opinion without checking in with anyone else first!!

All personal amusement aside, I am also wondering if there aren't some swirlings of an enforced (expected?) nurturing from Femmes with other people's identities.

Good stuff.

[MsMerrick]

Originally Posted by Medusa

YES! Women being the root of all evil in the world and all - Quick! Someone get an apple and offer it to the first Butch you see! Oooh, and then dress seductively and stand on the rocky shores and lure in the poor unsuspecting sailors! AND THEN, when you're done with that, take away the virtual pee-pee's of other people by merely talking about you're ability to change a tire, open your own damn door, build your own house, clean your own gutters, or (GASP) form an opinion without checking in with anyone else first!!

All personal amusement aside, I am also wondering if there aren't some swirlings of an enforced (expected?) nurturing from Femmes with other people's identities.

Good stuff.

Yeppers, you got my reference perfectly thanks !

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Medusa

All personal amusement aside, I am also wondering if there aren't some swirlings of an enforced (expected?) nurturing from Femmes with other people's identities.

Good stuff.

I cringe every time I see someone crossing the fine line between having feeling about an identity and speaking *for* those identities. I don't want any one speaking about how I do Femme, particularly a Butch or Trans person. How would they know? Conversely, I don't want to speak FOR somebody's identity.

I hope that makes sense.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I cringe every time I see someone crossing the fine line between having feeling about an identity and speaking *for* those identities. I don't want any one speaking about how I do Femme, particularly a Butch or Trans person. How would they know? Conversely, I don't want to speak FOR somebody's identity.

I hope that makes sense.

Totally does. I have seen Femmes (talking about Femmes specifically not because I think we are the only guilty party but because this thread is for us to deconstruct ourselves) play "nurturer" and "Mother" in threads by explaining away bad behavior or trying to "pat pat soothe soothe" the entire conversation.
Another hand raised in "Guilty" for me too at times.
I think that from the time we are born we are told we are the "nurtures" of the world, the "fixers", that it is our job to make everything ok for everyone.
Some of us shed that because we're sick of it but I do see some people embracing it.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Totally does. I have seen Femmes (talking about Femmes specifically not because I think we are the only guilty party but because this thread is for us to deconstruct ourselves) play "nurturer" and "Mother" in threads by explaining away bad behavior or trying to "pat pat soothe soothe" the entire conversation.
Another hand raised in "Guilty" for me too at times.
I think that from the time we are born we are told we are the "nurtures" of the world, the "fixers", that it is our job to make everything ok for everyone.
Some of us shed that because we're sick of it but I do see some people embracing it.

I think that there is a reward from our Butch counterparts for being the nurturer. Which makes it feel to me like a Femme in Shining Armor kind of thing. But at the end of they day, is it really helping? Because I think it succeeds only in further alienating Femmess from each other and taking away the voices of Butches.

I have been guilty of this too btw. Don't get me wrong, it is so easy to fall into. Especially when you are in love and tend to take on the weight of your beloveds world on your shoulders. I have to do a lot of work not to do that.

[adorable]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

* As a Femme of whatever ID, do you feel animosity towards (entire groups) of Butch or Trans IDs?
No

* Do you see yourself or ID as being at "war" with another Femme ID or complicit in a "war" between Butch or Trans IDs?
No, I sidestep constantly
* Do you see any group of masculine ID's having an agenda to attack another group?No

* As a Femme, do you see a "war" between Femmes of different IDs? Why or why not?
The only "war" I see, seems to be on behalf of some Femme's Butch counterparts, and i find that sad...
* Do you think that Femmes contribute in any way to the gender or identity formation of Butches or Transmen? How about contributing to the gender formation of Butches of Transmen who Femmes date?
We all contribute to each others sense of who we are, how can we not ? That called influence and involvement, friendship.
* Do you, as a Femme, have a feminine or masculine identity?
My identity is Femme. I have many characteristics, which some divide up and attribute to masculine and/or feminine. I don't.
* Do you even feel like there is a "Gender War"? Is that an external manifestation of the internal? Do you feel that it is a construct of the larger sexist and misogynist society at work here?

I think that to deny the influence of a larger society , which I do see as misogynistic & sexist, would be naive. But, I think its influence is not as clear cut, as some seem to think

As a general statement, I feel that there is a ton of "blame the Femme's " going on, which both angers me, and amuses me, because I see that, as a manifestation of that oft referenced sexism and misogyny
Now I will read everyone else's answers..

Originally Posted by Medusa

YES! Women being the root of all evil in the world and all - Quick! Someone get an apple and offer it to the first Butch you see! Oooh, and then dress seductively and stand on the rocky shores and lure in the poor unsuspecting sailors! AND THEN, when you're done with that, take away the virtual pee-pee's of other people by merely talking about you're ability to change a tire, open your own damn door, build your own house, clean your own gutters, or (GASP) form an opinion without checking in with anyone else first!!

All personal amusement aside, I am also wondering if there aren't some swirlings of an enforced (expected?) nurturing from Femmes with other people's identities.

Good stuff.

I certainly get the expectations of society at large and all IDs in general put on me as a feminine woman, as a mother, as a bitch, as a boss....

I see the blame the femme thing of which Merrick speaks.

And not only do I see it - I see it as something that people have used as a unifier. I think that makes sense.

The specific example was in a thread - and honestly my head is about to explode and I can't remember where - but butches were having the "default to he" argument and the one thing that the female ID and the male ID seemed to agree on (well for a page anyway) was that it wasn't them - it was the femme's who were "guilty" of it....and as I was reading it I rememeber thinking "as if that is a femme thing really???" One femme agreed, but not in an analytical way - more of in a "yeah, we're bad" kinda way....yanno...Giggle. No one disputed this "fact." Yet I had SEEN lots and lots of people do it, regardless of ID.

That to me is misogyny - where femmes are expected to hold their own and everyone else's own. The weight put on them for all problems regardless of who's problems they happen to be. By having someone to blame they can use it to bring them closer, never sorting out the shit from the soap.....they really all could just get along if femmes would just not screw it up for them. It reads to me as them sighing, shaking their collective heads and saying "fucking women" to me.

[apretty]

please don't take this as a slight, but because this is in the *femme* zone and you've made it clear in other thread/threads that you do not identify as *femme*--could you speak to the identity-place that you're posting from?

i think it matters. thank you.

Originally Posted by adorable

I certainly get the expectations of society at large and all IDs in general put on me as a feminine woman, as a mother, as a bitch, as a boss....

I see the blame the femme thing of which Merrick speaks.

[adorable]

Originally Posted by apretty

please don't take this as a slight, but because this is in the *femme* zone and you've made it clear in other thread/threads that you do not identify as *femme*--could you speak to the identity-place that you're posting from?

i think it matters. thank you.

Wow. I hope you got everything you hoped for out of that.

[apretty]

or, you could just answer the question, claire.

Originally Posted by adorable

Wow. I hope you got everything you hoped for out of that.

[Nat]

adorable - it confused me too that you said earlier that you are not a femme and now you are speaking from femme perspective. It sounds like you are feminine and queer and a woman but may not id as a femme. Would that be accurate? If so, I'm sure your experiences and insights overlap plenty of femme experiences/insights whether or not you have claimed the ID "femme" for yourself.