2020 Presidential Election

[dark_crystal]

The Clintons were yuppies.

Bill won because people still liked yuppies in the early 90s and because GHWB was somehow equal parts wimpy and sinister.

I personally had a hard time with Clinton bc she reminded me of my most annoying second-wave boss, but i do not understand why people vilify her so specifically.

Every problematic thing either Clinton ever supported was typical yuppie shit.

We need to recognize and own, as a culture, everything that was wrong with the entire ethos of the have-it-all eighties and quit projecting it all onto a single woman.

She was dirty from day one bc she entered the workforce at a time when every single thing was gatekept by a male, and female empowerment, back then, was possible only under the terms set by men, which required a wholehearted embrace of capitalism. There were a zillion movies about it.

You had to get dirty to play-- it was still either that or be a teacher/nurse/secretary, and even then, while you may not have to be like men, you at least had to be for them-- compliantly pretty and demure and tolerant of mild harassment and light assault.

There is a whole lot of pernicious shit that any woman in her generation would have internalized, that we are only just now even able to begin to challenge. This is why she still has supporters-- a whole lot of women who had those same experiences are still voting.

She's not evil, she's just a yuppie.

Should she have realized, before running, that the time was past when a yuppie was anything anybody still needed?

Has any yuppie realized this, ever?

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

Has any yuppie realized this, ever?

...in the interest of keeping it 2020 and not relitigating 2016:

[Martina]

Yes, Biden is a mainstream Dem who supported most of this stuff. However, he has been a consistent supporter of unions, whose destruction has been the linchpin of neo-liberal domestic politics. Reviving unions is also they key to returning this country to someplace workers can afford to live. The Clinton's undermined unions at every turn and from the beginning.

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

...in the interest of keeping it 2020 and not relitigating 2016:

[Martina]

Well the election is over and Trump won, thanks to mainstream Dems having their heads lodged firmly up their asses.

The point of that little thing I posted is that almost any Democratic candidate is likely to do much better this time around. It was semi-encouraging.

I will say that those who fear the left have less to worry about this time. I have read that the Bernie voters who went Trump are a group that no longer exists in terms of voting behavior. Duh.

I voted Clinton. But fuck every fucking asshole who tells third party voters not to vote their conscience after fielding a candidate like Clinton. She would have won if her campaign had not been so smug, stupid, and incompetent. I will vote for any Democrat who is nominated as I imagine most Trump haters will.

But those Clintonites excoriating third party voters then and now don't have a leg to stand on. Your horrendous candidate lost. And not because of Berners. Because she lost Obama voters and urban African Americans and because she didn't reach the suburban white women she spent so much money courting. Not a fucking thing to do with voters who never have and never will vote Dem. They honestly never expected to get them, so those post game arguments are ignorant. What she figured wrong was the base and how fucking sick to death they are of mainstream Dems not having a clue about their lives and priorities.

Listen, I have hated with a burning hot hatred both Clinton's for two decades. I hate Bill more. I am not sexist, and I don't feel one morsel of regret for hating most of what she stands for. She is a power hungry politician who doesn't give a fuck about poor and working people. She never has.

Yes, Biden has stood for most of the same. But the support for unions is redeeming. I believe him re that. He's far from my first choice. Far. But I will vote for him with much less angst than I brought to voting for Clinton.

[Martina]

All this stuff about her being a woman candidate. I don't give a damn what gender a candidate is. I never have. The Brits had Margaret Thatcher. Gender doesn't guarantee shit. I won't feel a thing when the first woman candidate wins the Presidency. I get it that is meaningful. But it doesn't mean anything to me. I don't care. Don't give a tinkers damn. I cared when Obama was elected. I thought I'd never see the day. And I will care when a gay person is elected.

There are lots of women in power. I wouldn't dream of extending them the benefit of the doubt because of gender. Women are the backbone of the Republican Party. My family is full of right wing women. I don't understand why every post mentions it. One was like if you want a perfect woman, dig up . . . Or a perfect man, dig up. Who the fuck thinks that way? I guess lots of people. I just don't care.

It's true that even decent men have blind spots. And no apologies for that. But being a decent human being, a brave and strong candidate, and standing up for the American people -- I kind of put that first.

[Martina]

They scapegoated poor people and people of color to get Bill reelected. I think that's evil.

There's a great book called Listen, Liberal, which explains the neo-liberal anti-worker politics that the Clinton's epitomized. It's not about being a yuppie yourself. It's about supporting the professional classes at the expense of workers while blaming the workers for their losses. The fact is that Clinton politics and their consequences destroyed the middle class in ways Reagan could never have envisaged.

It's a truly evil politics, capitalist to the core. Heartless and cynical.

[Martina]

To add to my list, remember NAFTA???????

Republicans wrote that in order to destroy labor unions. It could not pass because Democrats opposed it. Then Clinton was elected, and his first big accomplishment was to pass NAFTA. He wasn't the first Dem to undermine unions, but he took it to a new level. And the Democrats never looked back. They have helped engineer inequality for the sake of the professional elites and corporate interests. And then they blame working people, saying oh you should have gone to Harvard or Yale like I did.

That Listen, Liberal book by Thomas Frank takes you through the Democrats' abandonment of the working class legislation by legislation. No one, no one is more culpable than the Clintons. Boarded up main streets are their legacy. Trump is their legacy.