Butch Femme Planet  

Go Back   Butch Femme Planet > POLITICS, CULTURE, NEWS, MEDIA > Current Affairs/World Issues/Science And History

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-12-2010, 11:12 PM   #1
blush
Member

How Do You Identify?:
femme
Preferred Pronoun?:
she
Relationship Status:
I'm with goofy.
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 911
Thanks: 962
Thanked 2,375 Times in 616 Posts
Rep Power: 15632317
blush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Thanks, Nat!

I'm repeating my post from the "breeders" thread:

It's interesting to me that we stand united (myself included) about genital mutilation in girls, but we don't seem to be as horrified by foreskin removal in boy infants?


I didn't want to quote others who posted about it, but I hope they'll join in the conversation.
__________________
"We never forget those who make us blush."
Jean-Francois de la Harpe
blush is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to blush For This Useful Post:
Old 06-12-2010, 11:48 PM   #2
Unndunn
Member

How Do You Identify?:
Butch
Preferred Pronoun?:
doesn't matter to me
Relationship Status:
single
 
Unndunn's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 122
Thanks: 149
Thanked 166 Times in 48 Posts
Rep Power: 676964
Unndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blush View Post
Thanks, Nat!

I'm repeating my post from the "breeders" thread:

It's interesting to me that we stand united (myself included) about genital mutilation in girls, but we don't seem to be as horrified by foreskin removal in boy infants?


I didn't want to quote others who posted about it, but I hope they'll join in the conversation.
I just came across this thread and haven't seen any others about these issues. I'm not going to comment on the religious reasons for circumcision. I think of this as more of a medical issue. As a healthcare practitioner, I have to say that I don't think of male circumcision (removal of foreskin) as being comparible to the genital mutilation that is done to girls/women. Male circumcision is a way of decreasing risk of infection, including HIV. Female circumcision has not been shown to have any health benefits. Also, female circumcision isn't usually just the removal of skin (ie, the hood of the clitoris) it can be the removal of the entire clitoris.

a link from Scientific American: http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-hiv-infection
Unndunn is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Unndunn For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2010, 12:04 AM   #3
Lady Pamela
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
A Lady..Femme..Free Spirit with a touch of survivalist woman in me.
Preferred Pronoun?:
Spiritual Warrior..She Ra..Baby Doll, or anything close..ha!
Relationship Status:
In perfect love and perfect trust I believe that will be directed..for now Just friends in my life.
 
Lady Pamela's Avatar
 
1 Highscore

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Live in Utah but take trips to Arkansas. Plan to move there eventually.
Posts: 2,579
Thanks: 11,073
Thanked 5,940 Times in 1,609 Posts
Rep Power: 21474854
Lady Pamela Has the BEST ReputationLady Pamela Has the BEST ReputationLady Pamela Has the BEST ReputationLady Pamela Has the BEST ReputationLady Pamela Has the BEST ReputationLady Pamela Has the BEST ReputationLady Pamela Has the BEST ReputationLady Pamela Has the BEST ReputationLady Pamela Has the BEST ReputationLady Pamela Has the BEST ReputationLady Pamela Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unndunn View Post
I just came across this thread and haven't seen any others about these issues. I'm not going to comment on the religious reasons for circumcision. I think of this as more of a medical issue. As a healthcare practitioner, I have to say that I don't think of male circumcision (removal of foreskin) as being comparible to the genital mutilation that is done to girls/women. Male circumcision is a way of decreasing risk of infection, including HIV. Female circumcision has not been shown to have any health benefits. Also, female circumcision isn't usually just the removal of skin (ie, the hood of the clitoris) it can be the removal of the entire clitoris.

a link from Scientific American: http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-hiv-infection
I agree with what you said.

I also wanted to add...

Most girls having this done..Are actually done in a way that is very un sterile and usually without any numbing and with objects very dangerious.

Here in the states when males are done..They do numb the tops and only remove the very top layer..they do not take the whole thing off or mutilate it.

Just my opinion.
__________________
Believe what people show you the first time.
It will keep you in balance, and will show you truth!
~*~ Author unknown ~*~


When negative thoughts come to mind,
Let them die stillborn.
Speak and do posotive in any situation,
And watch your dreams grow and flurish.
If you can't say anything posotive, Zip it up.
Do not give birth to that which you do not want to see grow.
See it, Believe it, Own it, Have it!
~*~ Lady Pamela ~*~
Lady Pamela is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Lady Pamela For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2010, 12:09 AM   #4
Selenay
Member

How Do You Identify?:
A soul for a compass and a heart for a pair of wings.
Preferred Pronoun?:
All I ask of living is to have no chains on me.
Relationship Status:
All I own are the strides I spend to the finish line.
 
Selenay's Avatar
 
1 Highscore

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Somewhere in between here and gone.
Posts: 662
Thanks: 110
Thanked 1,447 Times in 369 Posts
Rep Power: 6344715
Selenay Has the BEST ReputationSelenay Has the BEST ReputationSelenay Has the BEST ReputationSelenay Has the BEST ReputationSelenay Has the BEST ReputationSelenay Has the BEST ReputationSelenay Has the BEST ReputationSelenay Has the BEST ReputationSelenay Has the BEST ReputationSelenay Has the BEST ReputationSelenay Has the BEST Reputation
Default

I was recently party to a brit milah, which translates to "Ritual circumcision."

I'd never been to one, before, and I was Very Very Curious how it was all going to go down; after all, it was happening in the rec-room of an apartment building. Let me tell you for free, my first question was, "Is this even sanitary?" (It was. I had my doubts, but it was quick and very very clean.)

The second thing of which we were all assured by the man performing the circumcision is that, were anything at all even so much as a cough or a sneeze or a decline in pallor was wrong with the child, the circumcision would n-o-t NOT happen.

I won't go into the religious aspects of what all went on, but the boychik was well taken care of. The boy was tended to by a nurse who specifically handled post-circumcision babies, who was very insistent about the way Things Were Going To Be. Furthermore, he did not appear to be in any more distress than a child who's just received a shot.

The grandparents, on the other hand, looked like they suffered far more than their grandson... But they were the ones holding him still and steady while the circumcision was being done.

As for the medical benefits, an article from the New England Journal of medicine comments that none of the 1600 people involved in their study of penile cancer had been circumcised at birth; and the complication rate of a circumcision is as low as .13%, and the most common complication is excessive bleeding (New England Journal of Medicine, 1990).


Edited to add: I would, however, like to point out that not all circumcisions done in the United States are performed with anesthesia... Not all are done in hospitals, either; anesthesia is sometimes declined for fear of the risks it would pose to the child's body or the belief that it is unnecessary.
__________________
Two or three things I know for sure,
And one is that I would rather go naked
Than wear the coat the world has made for me.
Selenay is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Selenay For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2010, 05:39 AM   #5
betenoire
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
Satan in a Sunday Hat
Preferred Pronoun?:
Maow
Relationship Status:
Married
 
betenoire's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Chemical Valley
Posts: 4,086
Thanks: 3,312
Thanked 8,740 Times in 2,566 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856
betenoire Has the BEST Reputationbetenoire Has the BEST Reputationbetenoire Has the BEST Reputationbetenoire Has the BEST Reputationbetenoire Has the BEST Reputationbetenoire Has the BEST Reputationbetenoire Has the BEST Reputationbetenoire Has the BEST Reputationbetenoire Has the BEST Reputationbetenoire Has the BEST Reputationbetenoire Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unndunn View Post
Male circumcision is a way of decreasing risk of infection, including HIV.
Funny, that. And here I always thought that practicing safer sex and not sharing needles was the generally accepted way of decreasing the risk of HIV infection.

And as far as bacterial infections underneath the scrotum go, I would think that a far kinder way to combat that would be EDUCATING the caregivers of male children (and adults, in cases where they need assistance with that sort of thing) on proper cleaning and drying procedures. That strikes me as a whole lot more responsible than just lopping it off.

Oh. In case you all can't tell - I am super SUPER opposed to circumcision. Female Genital Mutilation, also...but that really should go without saying.
__________________
bête noire \bet-NWAHR\, noun: One that is particularly disliked or that is to be avoided.
betenoire is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to betenoire For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2010, 07:49 AM   #6
blackboot
Member

How Do You Identify?:
TransgenderMasculineQueer
Preferred Pronoun?:
H with a y
Relationship Status:
fluxing the solder.
 
1 Highscore

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 484
Thanks: 1,964
Thanked 835 Times in 184 Posts
Rep Power: 7482394
blackboot Has the BEST Reputationblackboot Has the BEST Reputationblackboot Has the BEST Reputationblackboot Has the BEST Reputationblackboot Has the BEST Reputationblackboot Has the BEST Reputationblackboot Has the BEST Reputationblackboot Has the BEST Reputationblackboot Has the BEST Reputationblackboot Has the BEST Reputationblackboot Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by betenoire View Post
Funny, that. And here I always thought that practicing safer sex and not sharing needles was the generally accepted way of decreasing the risk of HIV infection.

And as far as bacterial infections underneath the scrotum go, I would think that a far kinder way to combat that would be EDUCATING the caregivers of male children (and adults, in cases where they need assistance with that sort of thing) on proper cleaning and drying procedures. That strikes me as a whole lot more responsible than just lopping it off.

Oh. In case you all can't tell - I am super SUPER opposed to circumcision. Female Genital Mutilation, also...but that really should go without saying.
I agree with you in all that you have written. I have very personal reasons for leaving genitalia in a natural state with the exception of a (very) valid medical condition. Even then, it can be a slipery slope having someone from the "medical profession" making decisions about anyone's bits. To *me* that also includes a parent(s).

*My* bottom line---"If it's not your body, It's not your choice."
*Female Genital Mutilation. NO.
*Ambiguous Genital Mutilation. NO.
*Male Genital Mutilation. NO.

Last edited by blackboot; 06-13-2010 at 07:57 AM. Reason: *I like astericks*
blackboot is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to blackboot For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2010, 08:01 AM   #7
Heart
Member

How Do You Identify?:
Femme
Relationship Status:
rainbows!
 
Heart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 466
Thanks: 303
Thanked 2,522 Times in 409 Posts
Rep Power: 12032610
Heart Has the BEST ReputationHeart Has the BEST ReputationHeart Has the BEST ReputationHeart Has the BEST ReputationHeart Has the BEST ReputationHeart Has the BEST ReputationHeart Has the BEST ReputationHeart Has the BEST ReputationHeart Has the BEST ReputationHeart Has the BEST ReputationHeart Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Regarding genital mutilation as it relates to circumcision of boys and girls:

Why is it when something that is detrimental to women and girls is raised, there is always this, "yeah, but it happens to boys/men too!" kind of response? While the intentions may be fair-minded, the upshot is to minimize what happens to women and girls and refocus on injustices to men and boys. Unconscious as it may be, I think its a kind of denial of the horrific realities the patriarchy visits on women and girls.

I am Jewish and my son was circumcised almost 18 years ago. I'm not religious, it was more of a gut thing. Today, I most likely wouldn't do it. But to say that he was "mutilated" is way over-stating. My son is a handsome, active, powerful young man in the prime of his life. A woman his age who has been circumcised would most likely have lost a child during childbirth and/or have a devastating condition called fistula that caused her to leak body waste and be shunned by her community, and/or be dead from a serious infection or blood loss.

See this link for more info on fistula, and how to help: http://www.fistulafoundation.org/
Heart is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Heart For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2010, 08:48 AM   #8
Toughy
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
pervert butch feminist woman
Preferred Pronoun?:
see above
Relationship Status:
independent entity
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oakland
Posts: 1,826
Thanks: 4,068
Thanked 7,654 Times in 1,523 Posts
Rep Power: 21474853
Toughy Has the BEST ReputationToughy Has the BEST ReputationToughy Has the BEST ReputationToughy Has the BEST ReputationToughy Has the BEST ReputationToughy Has the BEST ReputationToughy Has the BEST ReputationToughy Has the BEST ReputationToughy Has the BEST ReputationToughy Has the BEST ReputationToughy Has the BEST Reputation
Default

my posts from a different thread:

Human beings of any culture have every right and should vehemently stop the practice of mutilating girl's genitalia. Actually we have an OBLIGATION to stop this.

We also have an OBLIGATION to stop the sexual exploitation of children.....especially girls. The media in Western culture bears the greatest responsibility and obligation to do this.

and

I focus on girls and women for a reason. Yes, I am against snipping off part of a boy/man penis.......for any reason. I don't think that practice of Judaism (and taken up others), rises to the horrific consequences of mutilating a girl's clitoris and entrance to the vagina.

It is a red herring to bring up snipping off the foreskin and leaving the penis a functional pleasurable sexual organ. It does not relate in any way, shape or form, nor has any connection with rendering a girl/women unable to experience sexual pleasure.

edited to add: and that mutilation continues her role as the vessel for the next generation, while ending her ability to have any pleasure from the act of procreation.
__________________
We are everywhere
We are different
I do not care if resistance is futile
I will not assimilate



Toughy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Toughy For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2010, 09:15 AM   #9
blush
Member

How Do You Identify?:
femme
Preferred Pronoun?:
she
Relationship Status:
I'm with goofy.
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 911
Thanks: 962
Thanked 2,375 Times in 616 Posts
Rep Power: 15632317
blush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputationblush Has the BEST Reputation
Default

No, Heart. My intention is not to a nefarious plot to undermine what happens to boys vs. what happens to girls. BOTH happen to very young children who have no say in the matter.

As a society, we find male circumcision socially acceptable, even healthier, yet there is very little evidence that this is true. The article about HIV infection suggested circumcision. Are the anaerobic bacteria present not destroyed to antibacterial soap? It seems less invasive to wash the foreskin than to cut it off.

I'm not interested in created a hierarchy debating which is a worse condition. Obviously, female circumcision is worse.
__________________
"We never forget those who make us blush."
Jean-Francois de la Harpe
blush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2010, 09:40 AM   #10
Soon
Infamous Member

How Do You Identify?:
femme
Relationship Status:
attached
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: .
Posts: 6,896
Thanks: 29,046
Thanked 13,094 Times in 3,386 Posts
Rep Power: 21474858
Soon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heart View Post
Regarding genital mutilation as it relates to circumcision of boys and girls:

Why is it when something that is detrimental to women and girls is raised, there is always this, "yeah, but it happens to boys/men too!" kind of response? While the intentions may be fair-minded, the upshot is to minimize what happens to women and girls and refocus on injustices to men and boys. Unconscious as it may be, I think its a kind of denial of the horrific realities the patriarchy visits on women and girls.
Yes to this.

I was teaching a poem by Atwood in which she outlined various global injustices perpetuated against women; one of the stanzas dealt with Female Genital Mutilation.

The very first response was from a young man shouting out, "Yeah, well, we get circumcised...what about THAT!?" which was met with head nods all around. The women were silent. I then explained what would happen to the penis if they experienced the same degree of mutilation that the girls undergo during FGM.


Here is my earlier post:

Female Genital Mutilation and Male Circumsion is not analogous--both in intent, cultural justifications, the physical procedure or the consequences. I am not proposing that male circumcision is without its issues or is immune from criticism. I just don't believe that the two procedures can be fairly compared.


FGM involves the cutting off of entire portions of the female anatomy. For boys, the removal of the foreskin is more about removing an “extra” piece of skin than removing a center of pleasure. Removing the clitoris, which occurs in many FGM rituals, is done to help ensure that girls do not derive any pleasure from their sexuality, thus encouraging them to remain pure. The male equivalent of FGM would be the removal of the tip of the penis up to and including the removal of the penis and scrotum.


I am not cool with the description of the *extra piece of skin" portion of the description; however, a clitoridectomy (and other parts that can be cut during FGM--the labia--as well as sewn up--vagina) just does not equate to the act of removing the foreskin of males.



Beyond the dramatic differences in the actual physical procedures between the two, the intent, justifications and ramifications are completely distinct from one another.


Cutting off a clitoris (and labia and sewing up her vagina in many cases) is meant to completely eradicate ANY sexual pleasure--it is used as method of control. There are NO health benefits and many women have lifelong medical conditions afterwards--not to mention an inability to enjoy sex.

Some may say that the roots of circumcision was to not have the boys masturbate as much. This is not the case now. There have been recent studies that show how circumcision does reduce the rate of penile cancer, HIV, herpes and HPV (in turn, which helps protect women who are infected with HPV by men).

If I had a son, I would consider circumcision due to these studies. I don't think that circumcision is a mutilation, and I have a hard time with both these subjects being cast under the same umbrella.

The only common thread that I can see between Female Genital Mutilation and Circumcision performed on baby boys is that they both are performed without consent.

*****************************

Blush,

If you are not setting up a hierarchy or even equating the two, then why would you question the level of horror that people have in regards to FGM over circumcision? Your question is phrased with the insinuation that there should be an equal amount of horror expressed towards circumcision as to FGM. It makes perfect sense to me that people would naturally be more horrified at FGM than circumcision.

Last edited by Soon; 06-13-2010 at 09:48 AM. Reason: extra thought
Soon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Soon For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2010, 10:20 AM   #11
Mister Bent
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
.
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: .
Posts: 2,905
Thanks: 4,151
Thanked 5,825 Times in 1,722 Posts
Rep Power: 21474854
Mister Bent Has the BEST ReputationMister Bent Has the BEST ReputationMister Bent Has the BEST ReputationMister Bent Has the BEST ReputationMister Bent Has the BEST ReputationMister Bent Has the BEST ReputationMister Bent Has the BEST ReputationMister Bent Has the BEST ReputationMister Bent Has the BEST ReputationMister Bent Has the BEST ReputationMister Bent Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by betenoire View Post
Funny, that. And here I always thought that practicing safer sex and not sharing needles was the generally accepted way of decreasing the risk of HIV infection.

And as far as bacterial infections underneath the scrotum (foreskin) go, I would think that a far kinder way to combat that would be EDUCATING the caregivers of male children (and adults, in cases where they need assistance with that sort of thing) on proper cleaning and drying procedures. That strikes me as a whole lot more responsible than just lopping it off.
I agree that most of the medical problems associated with intact foreskins could be eradicated through better education. Neither parents nor "health" educators in our schools have been properly educated in instructing uncircumcised boys. Cutting off the foreskin simply allows better access to the penis in order to keep it clean, which I think we all know is no guarantee it will, in fact, be kept clean. Removal of the foreskin does decrease sexual pleasure, and there have been studies into the affects of inflicting severe pain on infants, so there are emotional/psychological ramifications worthy of inquiry, as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heart View Post
Regarding genital mutilation as it relates to circumcision of boys and girls:

Why is it when something that is detrimental to women and girls is raised, there is always this, "yeah, but it happens to boys/men too!" kind of response? While the intentions may be fair-minded, the upshot is to minimize what happens to women and girls and refocus on injustices to men and boys. Unconscious as it may be, I think its a kind of denial of the horrific realities the patriarchy visits on women and girls.

From the other thread, and here, I personally didn't get the impression that the comment was made from a "yeah, but it happens to boys/men, too" perspective, but rather that there are forms of genital mutilation that take place right here in our own backyard, without having to take the issue globally (which is not to say that we shouldn't).

Similarly, I don't understand why we can't have conversations about what happens to our male children without it becoming a conversation about the patriarchy and male favoritism. Why can't both conversations occur concurrently?

Nor do I think anyone, anywhere here, has equated male circumcision with the horrific practice of female circumcision and to continue to try to berate those who would like to discuss male circumcision on those grounds feels like a kind of backlash effort at shutting down that conversation. I'd like to read/hear what members here think regarding both subjects, particularly as the parent of male child.

There is a hierarchy of horrors, and FGM far outweighs - from both physical and cultural perspectives - male foreskin removal. But circumcision is mutilation, and it is relevant to talk about it here.
__________________



Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.
- H. L. Mencken
Mister Bent is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Mister Bent For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2010, 08:31 AM   #12
Unndunn
Member

How Do You Identify?:
Butch
Preferred Pronoun?:
doesn't matter to me
Relationship Status:
single
 
Unndunn's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 122
Thanks: 149
Thanked 166 Times in 48 Posts
Rep Power: 676964
Unndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST ReputationUnndunn Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by betenoire View Post
Funny, that. And here I always thought that practicing safer sex and not sharing needles was the generally accepted way of decreasing the risk of HIV infection.

And as far as bacterial infections underneath the scrotum go, I would think that a far kinder way to combat that would be EDUCATING the caregivers of male children (and adults, in cases where they need assistance with that sort of thing) on proper cleaning and drying procedures. That strikes me as a whole lot more responsible than just lopping it off.

Oh. In case you all can't tell - I am super SUPER opposed to circumcision. Female Genital Mutilation, also...but that really should go without saying.
Yeah, I'm picking up on your opposition.

First of all, we're not talking about the scrotum at all. It's the foreskin. Next, I'm not an advocate for or against circumcision in males. I simply know that there are medical reasons that it helps reduce infections in males, which therefore helps reduce infections in the women (or men) that they have sex with. That was my point-- that there is no medical benefit to women who are circumcized, but there is for men who are circumcized.
Unndunn is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Unndunn For This Useful Post:
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:20 AM.


ButchFemmePlanet.com
All information copyright of BFP 2018