Gas Taxes

[Linus]

http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx?time=3 <-- You can use this chart to compare even Canada and the US. It appears even over a 6 year period Canada traditionally is a $1USD more.

Canada's gas tax (at least based on PetroCanada's est for 2007 was 32% http://retail.petro-canada.ca/en/fuelsavings/2139.aspx). And there it's used for infrastructure stuff amongst other things. http://www.infc.gc.ca/ip-pi/gtf-fte/gtf-fte-eng.html

[Andrew, Jr.]

Linus you bring up a good point. My brother and his partner just came back from Europe. They rented a car, and gas was very expensive there. He told me, and I maybe off a bit, but it was close to $6+/gallon. Needless to say they did a lot of walking, and sharing cab rides.

[WolfyOne]

dreadgeek and Linus, put that way, I guess we're better off than other countries when it comes to gas prices. I just think it's a shame the cost of living hasn't caught up to the taxes any of us has to pay above and beyond what's already taken out of our paychecks. I look forward to the day when an alternative is put in, in place of gasoline that will be cheaper and greener for the future of all.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by WolfyOne

dreadgeek and Linus, put that way, I guess we're better off than other countries when it comes to gas prices. I just think it's a shame the cost of living hasn't caught up to the taxes any of us has to pay above and beyond what's already taken out of our paychecks. I look forward to the day when an alternative is put in, in place of gasoline that will be cheaper and greener for the future of all.

Or more, the US gov't artificially suppresses the price and impact of car driving in this nation. Canada (I can't speak for Europe since I haven't been there since I was 8) uses a lot of the taxes towards infrastructure (public transit), road improvements, etc.

[Gayla]

I live in Washington state and I think we are probably more aware then many of how much our gas taxes are and how they are used. They are so high here that any talk of an increase gets significant media coverage. Our 37.5 cents per gallon is broken down to dozens of different things. I often hear about this group or that group that gets a half a cent or a quarter cent per gallon.

Of course, off the top of my head I can't name any, but I know that there has been several times an increase has been proposed to pay for something I thought was really weird.

[Hack]

Gas taxes do pay for our roads, but many states, such as Michigan, send far more to Washington than what we get back in federal transportation dollars. And you also need matching funds to get your federal funds. In this economy, a lot of states are leaving a lot of transportation money on the table in Washington.

I live in a state that is a virtual desert for public transit. We make cars here -- well, we used to make a lot more cars here not that long ago, but I digress -- and public transit here is pitiful. Cars are the way of life. I think it certainly hurts our economy that we don't have good public transit. In many cities, we can't move people out to the suburbs, where the jobs are. If they don't have a car or a ride-share, they're screwed.

Also, though my experiences in Europe are limited to the Netherlands and Belgium, I can tell you that while public transit is plentiful (trams, subway, trains, buses), it's not always on time, reliable or convenient. I only used it a couple of times, since my gf at the time who lives there has a car because she hates public transit. They don't make it easy to own a car there. Parking is a premium, taxes on your car (a monthly payment) are high and there was talk recently in the Netherlands of putting a odometer tax on cars. In other words, the government would put a device in your car that would report how many miles (sorry, kilometers) you drive in a month and then tax you for each kilometer. They are trying to raise more money to keep up their roads.

As a career public servant, I can tell you there are few, if any, perfect solutions when it comes to paying for the services the public expects.

Jake

[WolfyOne]

Originally Posted by Linus

Or more, the US gov't artificially suppresses the price and impact of car driving in this nation. Canada (I can't speak for Europe since I haven't been there since I was 8) uses a lot of the taxes towards infrastructure (public transit), road improvements, etc.

I think it would be great if there was public transit everywhere, but it's not possible. Many rural areas where I live can't have it because the poor people wouldn't be able to pay for it. Even the town I'm in only runs regular scheduled bus service during the school year for the college. It's cheap, like 50 cents, but it could take three hours to get to your destination in town.

Basically, I just wanted to make everyone aware of what taxes are at the pump where they live. We get taxed on almost everything except maybe the air we breathe. I think the only ones that come out ahead in all this are the politicians who keep giving each other pay raises.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by WolfyOne

I think it would be great if there was public transit everywhere, but it's not possible. Many rural areas where I live can't have it because the poor people wouldn't be able to pay for it. Even the town I'm in only runs regular scheduled bus service during the school year for the college. It's cheap, like 50 cents, but it could take three hours to get to your destination in town.

Basically, I just wanted to make everyone aware of what taxes are at the pump where they live. We get taxed on almost everything except maybe the air we breathe. I think the only ones that come out ahead in all this are the politicians who keep giving each other pay raises.

I'm curious, if not taxes, how do we go about paying for those things that make a civilization, well, civilized? A lot of folks complain about taxes and yet they never offer an alternative to taxes. If you're not taxed to pay for roads, how do they get paid for? I suppose private companies could build roads and then charge "whatever the market will bear" for use of those roads but is that really a good idea? If you're not taxed to pay for schools, police and fire departments how do they get paid for? How do we pay for the public libraries or, for that matter, the military?

You say the only ones who come out ahead are the politicians but consider that if it weren't for government then private companies would probably take up building roads and then charge whatever they can get away with charging (and they would have, literally, a captive audience since you would be required to pay for ANY use of the road). If private companies handled public safety (police and fire) do you want to have someone run your credit card *before* a cop or EMT is dispatched to your rescue? Don't you think it is a great thing that you can go to your public library and, for free, get books or DVDs which you only have to pay for if they are late and even then the fees are nominal? These are all benefits. Don't you think it is absolutely fabulous that you can, with a phone you can put comfortably into your pocket, call anyone with a phone anywhere on the planet? I do. The private companies don't put those satellites in orbit, NASA does. Without NASA those satellites wouldn't even exist.

We are ahead of where we would be in the arenas of public safety, public education and infrastructure if we didn't have taxes so I think that, in fact, we derive quite a large benefit for our taxes. As a Supreme Court justice remarked at the beginning of the last century "taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society".

I'm open to the idea of paying for these things without taxes if that's possible. So what would you replace taxes with?

Cheers
Aj

[Apocalipstic]

I would pay more taxes at the pump to see better public transit in Nashville.

Way more.

[WolfyOne]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

I'm curious, if not taxes, how do we go about paying for those things that make a civilization, well, civilized? A lot of folks complain about taxes and yet they never offer an alternative to taxes. If you're not taxed to pay for roads, how do they get paid for? I suppose private companies could build roads and then charge "whatever the market will bear" for use of those roads but is that really a good idea? If you're not taxed to pay for schools, police and fire departments how do they get paid for? How do we pay for the public libraries or, for that matter, the military?

You say the only ones who come out ahead are the politicians but consider that if it weren't for government then private companies would probably take up building roads and then charge whatever they can get away with charging (and they would have, literally, a captive audience since you would be required to pay for ANY use of the road). If private companies handled public safety (police and fire) do you want to have someone run your credit card *before* a cop or EMT is dispatched to your rescue? Don't you think it is a great thing that you can go to your public library and, for free, get books or DVDs which you only have to pay for if they are late and even then the fees are nominal? These are all benefits. Don't you think it is absolutely fabulous that you can, with a phone you can put comfortably into your pocket, call anyone with a phone anywhere on the planet? I do. The private companies don't put those satellites in orbit, NASA does. Without NASA those satellites wouldn't even exist.

We are ahead of where we would be in the arenas of public safety, public education and infrastructure if we didn't have taxes so I think that, in fact, we derive quite a large benefit for our taxes. As a Supreme Court justice remarked at the beginning of the last century "taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society".

I'm open to the idea of paying for these things without taxes if that's possible. So what would you replace taxes with?

Cheers
Aj

Aj, I didn't post the thread to debate you because you happen to know way more than many of us here. My sole purpose was to enlighten others to the taxes they pay in their state at the pump. I personally don't have solutions to a problem that started long ago. I always thought the tolls we paid on the roads were to go to fix the roads as needed, but perhaps I'm wrong. I also think if taxes were taken out of paychecks for roads and really anything else we may need to sustain us in this civilized society, we'd at least know how to budget better with what we have left over. Seems government has figured out what to take from our checks to pay for federal, state, social security, etc. I also think everything you said is great and yes, we've come a long way as a civilized society.