It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[Linus]

As I thought about this new event and was reading this, I couldn't help but be struck by the irony of today. My company's lawyers filed for my H1-B petition, the precursor towards a green card and potential citizenship. To me, I feel like I'm do not deserve this compared to all those families, kids, friends, etc., who came here truly in search of freedom. Freedom from fear of being attacked by cartels, of potential no hope, and a variety of other things that depress the hopes of individuals.

As I read the Huffington Post article I linked I found the following comment:

I've got a solution to all this. Let's just close up shop. Close down the borders and do not let anyone immigrate here. Yes you could get a temporary work or school visa, but when it's up, it's up, go home. We have enough people here already. We already have a huge mess with this side and that side to everything. Why add more fuel to the fire. No more middle east immigrants. No more Mexican immigrants. No more European immigrants. No more African immigrants. Not even a Canadian. Close it down and take care of people who are here already.

To me, this will do nothing more than strangle the growth of the US. The vast diversity that exists in this country (although the honking of NYC could abate a little) is what makes it great in many ways. The ability to take on challenges and forge through them are what makes Americans unique in many ways.

It is, to me, short-sighted to blame the ills of a city, state or nation on a single factor. There is too much intertwining going on in the world today. Children born in the US should be, by all rights, American citizens (as per Amendment 14, clause #1).

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

(italics mine)

If one denies these children their rights, then how far can the state/gov't go to deny other individual rights?

[MsDemeanor]

I've heard rumor that MN Rep Michele Bachmann is an anchor baby. Can we send her back first?

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Linus

As I thought about this new event and was reading this, I couldn't help but be struck by the irony of today. My company's lawyers filed for my H1-B petition, the precursor towards a green card and potential citizenship. To me, I feel like I'm do not deserve this compared to all those families, kids, friends, etc., who came here truly in search of freedom. Freedom from fear of being attacked by cartels, of potential no hope, and a variety of other things that depress the hopes of individuals.

As I read the Huffington Post article I linked I found the following comment:



To me, this will do nothing more than strangle the growth of the US. The vast diversity that exists in this country (although the honking of NYC could abate a little) is what makes it great in many ways. The ability to take on challenges and forge through them are what makes Americans unique in many ways.

It is, to me, short-sighted to blame the ills of a city, state or nation on a single factor. There is too much intertwining going on in the world today. Children born in the US should be, by all rights, American citizens (as per Amendment 14, clause #1).

(italics mine)

If one denies these children their rights, then how far can the state/gov't go to deny other individual rights?

If the Federal Government doesn't take on this, then it will just be one more thing to be disappointed about Obama and his administration.

We have a saying here, it goes something like: Too much (insert ice cream truck music) not enough ice cream. That is how I see the Obama years so far.

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

I've heard rumor that MN Rep Michele Bachmann is an anchor baby. Can we send her back first?

We could only be so lucky, lol to send her back!

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

I've heard rumor that MN Rep Michele Bachmann is an anchor baby. Can we send her back first?

Oh, how I would love this to be true! Did some research online.... came up with nothing about this other than her speeches, etc. about anchor babies. Then, again, after an overview of all of her insanity as a politician (and person), I could only take on about 6 articles..... that was enough. Really hard to hear her at the moment of her whacko statements, but to read them all in one sitting is just too much!


We could only be so lucky, lol to send her back!
[/QUOTE]

Well, we are jesting here, and I so get it, but, get really upset with anti-anchor baby stuff that I don't want anyone in the US sent anywhere via this trash. But, I sure can think of a few places I would love to send this woman!

But, you all have a point!!

You ever think about her as a GOP Presidential or VP candidate... or better yet.... Liz Cheny! I really think she might be a GOP candidate in 2012... ARGH....


You were just joshing, huh?

[Soon]

Steve King Suggests Illegal Immigrants Can Be Spotted By Their Shoes Or A "Sixth Sense"

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

If the Federal Government doesn't take on this, then it will just be one more thing to be disappointed about Obama and his administration.

We have a saying here, it goes something like: Too much (insert ice cream truck music) not enough ice cream. That is how I see the Obama years so far.



We could only be so lucky, lol to send her back!

Actually, if such a law were to pass then it would go to the Federal courts which would either strike it down or pass it up to the Supreme Court. This would be, largely, out of the hands of the Obama administration (or any administration). That process would start, quite automatically, once a law passed and someone was harmed by it.

Now, I don't think that any such law will see the light of day. The Constitution is *very* explicit on this matter and while most people don't realize *why* the 14th Amendment exists, there are those of us who are beneficiaries of that amendment who recognize precisely why it exists.

(For those who don't, at the end of the Civil War, the status of black Americans was up for grabs. Up until that point, we were not considered citizens in a full legal sense. The 14th Amendment was passed to get around what the Southern states *wanted* to happen which was that black citizens would not be considered citizens of the United States. So the 14th was passed to make it clear that American citizenship automatically adheres to anyone born here. Forgive me for being so blunt but I do not trust the majority enough to see that Amendment repealed or even substantially changed. )

I understand the strategy the Republicans are trying. In the short run (2010 - 2012) it *might* pay off although I think it's a long-odds gamble. Past 2016 they will rue the day they decided that stoking racial resentment was the path to electoral glory.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

Linus:

You bring up a really good point--the *real* problems America are facing aren't really related to immigration. Compared to the effects of letting our education system falter and turning our backs on science, they are trivial. Compared to allowing American corporations to move their headquarters off-shore to avoid paying corporate taxes or moving jobs overseas, immigration just fades into the background. Compared to a trillion dollar defense budget all the social services *combined* do not even begin to compete for the amount of weight they have on the economy.

But improving the education system is a long-term project and will require more money with the payoff being intangible, so we don't want to do that. Passing laws that reward good business behavior and punish bad business behavior are difficult so we don't want to do that heavy lifting either. Cutting back our defense spending by, say, half gores way too many sacred cows. Immigrants are easy. They are nice slow-moving target and have the added virtue of large numbers of immigrants looking substantially different than the majority so blaming them is the path we've chosen in this country. Why do the hard thing that will require courage, sacrifice and will when there's a ready-made scapegoat right at hand?

Yes, it's cynical but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

Cheers
Aj

Originally Posted by Linus

As I thought about this new event and was reading this, I couldn't help but be struck by the irony of today. My company's lawyers filed for my H1-B petition, the precursor towards a green card and potential citizenship. To me, I feel like I'm do not deserve this compared to all those families, kids, friends, etc., who came here truly in search of freedom. Freedom from fear of being attacked by cartels, of potential no hope, and a variety of other things that depress the hopes of individuals.

As I read the Huffington Post article I linked I found the following comment:



To me, this will do nothing more than strangle the growth of the US. The vast diversity that exists in this country (although the honking of NYC could abate a little) is what makes it great in many ways. The ability to take on challenges and forge through them are what makes Americans unique in many ways.

It is, to me, short-sighted to blame the ills of a city, state or nation on a single factor. There is too much intertwining going on in the world today. Children born in the US should be, by all rights, American citizens (as per Amendment 14, clause #1).

(italics mine)

If one denies these children their rights, then how far can the state/gov't go to deny other individual rights?

[The_Lady_Snow]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100618/...on_law_clinton

[Linus]

And out comes the more obvious racist nature of the Arizona law. This law isn't about legal versus not "legal" immigrants. It's about the colour of the state of Arizona. With an aging white boomer population that has more conservative leanings, I'd imagine this holds well with many of them.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

Linus:

You bring up a really good point--the *real* problems America are facing aren't really related to immigration. Compared to the effects of letting our education system falter and turning our backs on science, they are trivial. Compared to allowing American corporations to move their headquarters off-shore to avoid paying corporate taxes or moving jobs overseas, immigration just fades into the background. Compared to a trillion dollar defense budget all the social services *combined* do not even begin to compete for the amount of weight they have on the economy.

But improving the education system is a long-term project and will require more money with the payoff being intangible, so we don't want to do that. Passing laws that reward good business behavior and punish bad business behavior are difficult so we don't want to do that heavy lifting either. Cutting back our defense spending by, say, half gores way too many sacred cows. Immigrants are easy. They are nice slow-moving target and have the added virtue of large numbers of immigrants looking substantially different than the majority so blaming them is the path we've chosen in this country. Why do the hard thing that will require courage, sacrifice and will when there's a ready-made scapegoat right at hand?

Yes, it's cynical but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

Cheers
Aj

From what I read in this thread, I think I am the only one who doesnt have a problem with the Arizona attempt to curb illegal immigration. I say kudos for having the gonads to tackle a problem no one else has the guts to deal with.

It is easy to say we shouldnt deal with immigration issues because there are other more pressing problems affecting the country. Unfortunately, we use this excuse to avoid dealing with many issues because no one wants to be seen as the bad guy about any issue.

Illegal immigrations costs us taxpayers billions and billions a year in services i.e. education and health care plus immigration costs of housing illegals awaiting deportation hearings and providing them with legal representation to name just a few.

With the downturn in the economy and Americans struggling to find work, my allegiance is with the people who belong here, not with those who deliberately circumvented the laws because they wanted to do so. That type of selfish, self serving behavior is insulting.

One can only wonder what these people might be able to achieve if they put their energy to work in changing the conditions in their own countries rather than invading others.

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Illegal immigrations costs us taxpayers billions and billions a year in services i.e. education and health care plus immigration costs of housing illegals awaiting deportation hearings and providing them with legal representation to name just a few.

Billions and billions? Go check your facts.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

Billions and billions? Go check your facts.

I know my facts. Conservative estimate in 2004 was illegal immigrants costing taxpayers 10 billion a year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Aug25.html

[Corkey]

The problem I have is that this law has no distinction between law abiding American Latinos and American Native peoples and immeragrents who have come here seeking jobs that most Americans won't do. It is racist and is racial profiling at it's worst. Any one who isn't lilly white will be subject to this unreasonable search and seizure law. It is basic discrimination, cloaked in states rights. It is unjust, unfair, and totally unreasonable.
I do think we need to do the hard work of reform, but not at the risk of American citizens being jailed for not having their birth certificates on them.
All American citizens have the bill of rights to use, their 5th amendment right of self incrimination, but they shouldn't have to use this as they have every right to be here, they are US.

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by Kobi

I know my facts. Conservative estimate in 2004 was illegal immigrants costing taxpayers 10 billion a year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Aug25.html

This is a short newspaper article about a six year old study from an anti-immigrant organization. That's not "facts".

[weatherboi]

Hey Kobi!!!

What is important to recognize from the article you posted is that the study includes the social impact that undocumented workers kids have on the system but what Camarotas' study doesnt include is the impact their future contributuions will make on our society. Camarotas number one concern back in 2004 was to make these numbers as big as he could. The article is bogus and not a good measure for reform because it is so slanted.

Grant

Originally Posted by Kobi

I know my facts. Conservative estimate in 2004 was illegal immigrants costing taxpayers 10 billion a year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Aug25.html

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Kobi

From what I read in this thread, I think I am the only one who doesnt have a problem with the Arizona attempt to curb illegal immigration. I say kudos for having the gonads to tackle a problem no one else has the guts to deal with.

It is easy to say we shouldnt deal with immigration issues because there are other more pressing problems affecting the country. Unfortunately, we use this excuse to avoid dealing with many issues because no one wants to be seen as the bad guy about any issue.

Illegal immigrations costs us taxpayers billions and billions a year in services i.e. education and health care plus immigration costs of housing illegals awaiting deportation hearings and providing them with legal representation to name just a few.

With the downturn in the economy and Americans struggling to find work, my allegiance is with the people who belong here, not with those who deliberately circumvented the laws because they wanted to do so. That type of selfish, self serving behavior is insulting.


WOW you gotta be fucking kidding me... Cause Kobi no one is stopping any *American* from getting their ass out there and picking fucking veggies for the *American Supper Table* I don't see anyone standing in line or pushing these undocumented workers to shovel our sidewalks in the winter or fucking make those lawns look all pretty.. I mean for fucks sakes, no one stops anyone or keeps anyone from doing these god damn glorious jobs.


One can only wonder what these people might be able to achieve if they put their energy to work in changing the conditions in their own countries rather than invading others.

My allegiance is with a people who are being pegged and have a fucking spot light shown on them now because of their color. I can't believe how you think that these human being are taking the jobs of hard working American's who are out there competing for them.. You need to look around more Kobi you fucking seriously do...

PS

When my momma came over here all illegal and shit, she did not cheat ANYONE out of the maids job she got...

[apretty]

i'm not in the sort of mood to educate today, so you'll just have to trust me:

your (gonadal?!) statement is both misguided and illogical; a stupid and an overtly simplistic, racist view of our history of scapegoating (pick your brown person and odds are you'll come up with someone whos people are/have been disenfranchised) and continues to go on (scapegoating works!) in this state (AZ) and in pockets of shit-hole towns throughout this (USA) country.


so if you know a racist that needs a job, that thinks a mexican took his/her job, i have just the thing for you:

http://www.takeourjobs.org/

please educate yourself. or don't.

Originally Posted by Kobi

From what I read in this thread, I think I am the only one who doesnt have a problem with the Arizona attempt to curb illegal immigration. I say kudos for having the gonads to tackle a problem no one else has the guts to deal with.

It is easy to say we shouldnt deal with immigration issues because there are other more pressing problems affecting the country. Unfortunately, we use this excuse to avoid dealing with many issues because no one wants to be seen as the bad guy about any issue.

Illegal immigrations costs us taxpayers billions and billions a year in services i.e. education and health care plus immigration costs of housing illegals awaiting deportation hearings and providing them with legal representation to name just a few.

With the downturn in the economy and Americans struggling to find work, my allegiance is with the people who belong here, not with those who deliberately circumvented the laws because they wanted to do so. That type of selfish, self serving behavior is insulting.

One can only wonder what these people might be able to achieve if they put their energy to work in changing the conditions in their own countries rather than invading others.

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by apretty;139652
[URL

http://www.takeourjobs.org/[/URL]

This is hella smart.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

This is hella smart.

Yup! it is!

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by apretty

i'm not in the sort of mood to educate today, so you'll just have to trust me:

your (gonadal) statement is both misguided and illogical; a stupid and an overtly simplistic, racist view of our history of scapegoating (pick your brown person and odds are you'll come up with someone whos people are/have been disenfranchised) and continues to go on (scapegoating works!) in this state (AZ) and in pockets of shit-hole towns throughout this (USA) country.


so if you know a racist that needs a job, that thinks a mexican took his/her job, i have just the thing for you:

http://www.takeourjobs.org/

please educate yourself. or don't.

And I need to add the numbers of white, middle and upper middle-class LDS polygamous offshoot people with dozens of children on welfare!! Take a gander at how much taxpayer money goes to these people! And the men that have fathered all of these kids are only financially responsible for those within the marriage that is legally recognized.

I get really ticked with the BS advocated about immigrant (yes, illegal) social service and education taking from US citizens. Not to mention corporate welfare in the US!!

The fact of the matter is, big Agriculture (and service industry) businesses have been bringing in illegal’s to work at shit wages for decades and is the culprit with how many illegal’s are here. Frankly, they should be footing the bills for illegal’s here. And citizenship should be moved along for these people so that they are part of the tax base and can live here and prosper and see their children have education and opportunity. And please universe, get Latino [populations especially registered to vote en masse! This is the fastest growing population in the US today and they need some political clout!

The taking our jobs argument is just plain incorrect! Yes, educate yourself and stop knee-jerk talking-point responses!! Get the damn facts!