It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[Medusa]

Kobi,

I'm always incredibly dismayed when someone says that a Person of Color "pulled out the race card". Especially since you seem to be intelligent.

I have seen more than one person in these forums resort to saying that a Person of Color "pulled out the race card", so what Im about to say isn't solely directed at you but I hope that you can hear what I'm about to say with an open mind.

Race is not a "card" that a person can whip out. Race is a part of a person's LIVED experience, a part of their lives, and unfortunately, oftentimes is a huge part of unfair, ignorant, and biggoted treatment that they receive from people who view their race as a "thing" that they whip out when they are trying to be "uppity" or "arrogant" or "overpowering" or (gasp) "too loud".

It is also incredibly disrespectful.

Sadly too, any argument you make using the "race card being pulled out" will get lost with folks like me who translate that as "white person who refuses to examine their racism or privilege".


M

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Kobi,

I'm always incredibly dismayed when someone says that a Person of Color "pulled out the race card". Especially since you seem to be intelligent.

I have seen more than one person in these forums resort to saying that a Person of Color "pulled out the race card", so what Im about to say isn't solely directed at you but I hope that you can hear what I'm about to say with an open mind.

Race is not a "card" that a person can whip out. Race is a part of a person's LIVED experience, a part of their lives, and unfortunately, oftentimes is a huge part of unfair, ignorant, and biggoted treatment that they receive from people who view their race as a "thing" that they whip out when they are trying to be "uppity" or "arrogant" or "overpowering" or (gasp) "too loud".

It is also incredibly disrespectful.

Sadly too, any argument you make using the "race card being pulled out" will get lost with folks like me who translate that as "white person who refuses to examine their racism or privilege".


M

Medusa:
I have never--and I doubt I ever will--hear a sufficient definition of 'playing the race card' that draws a useful distinction between 'pointing out injustice' and 'playing the race card'.

Kobi, using the 'playing the race card' logic then DuBois and Washington played the race card as did MLK, Malcolm X, Marcus Garvey, Thurgood Marshall, Rosa Parks, John Lewis and every other black person who marched, wrote, protested, or did anything to fight segregation. ALL of them were 'playing the race card' because ALL of them refused to pretend that racism was okay. All of them called injustice as injustice and therefore were 'playing the race card'.

Now can you explain to me the difference between Thurgood Marshall arguing Brown v. Board and 'playing the race card'? Do you have a definition of playing the race card that makes a distinction between that and pointing out injustice where it is encountered?

Cheers
Aj

[Apocalipstic]

Wow, I was once agaon going to mention that by boycotting Arizona we are hurting the workers themselves more than the State. The waiters, taxi drivers, sheet ironers, factory workers.

But it seems way more in going on here than my brain can handle today.

OK, maybe a little.

There is no "us and them"....we are WE. Our Leaders. Our Problem.

and

I hear the word "card" all the time....Gay Card, Sex Card, Race Card.....Everyone here knows there is no "Card" right?

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Wow, I was once agaon going to mention that by boycotting Arizona we are hurting the workers themselves more than the State. The waiters, taxi driversm sheet ironers, factory workers.

But it seems way more in going on here than my brain can handle today.

OK, maybe a little.

There is no "us and them"....we are WE. Our Leaders. Our Problem.

and

I hear the word "card" all the time....Gay Card, Sex Card, Race Card.....Everyone here knows there is no "Card" right?

Apparently not.

[Kobi]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Navy"]Medusa,

With all due respect, I have a real problem when differing standards are applied to people based on skin color.

You just said Kobi is a bad white person who must examine her presumed racism and privelege.

But people of color because of their unique life experience have free reign to call me names and belittle me?

This makes sense. Again, I have to allow for them but they dont have to treat me with any respect simply because of the color of their skin.

Thats bizarre.

Originally Posted by Medusa

Kobi,

I'm always incredibly dismayed when someone says that a Person of Color "pulled out the race card". Especially since you seem to be intelligent.

I have seen more than one person in these forums resort to saying that a Person of Color "pulled out the race card", so what Im about to say isn't solely directed at you but I hope that you can hear what I'm about to say with an open mind.

Race is not a "card" that a person can whip out. Race is a part of a person's LIVED experience, a part of their lives, and unfortunately, oftentimes is a huge part of unfair, ignorant, and biggoted treatment that they receive from people who view their race as a "thing" that they whip out when they are trying to be "uppity" or "arrogant" or "overpowering" or (gasp) "too loud".

It is also incredibly disrespectful.

Sadly too, any argument you make using the "race card being pulled out" will get lost with folks like me who translate that as "white person who refuses to examine their racism or privilege".


M

[SuperFemme]

Who is calling you names? Please show me, because I don't see it.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Kobi

With all due respect, I have a real problem when differing standards are applied to people based on skin color.

And amazingly that's just what this law is all about

So, from all of your previous posts in this thread, and now this post, I'm assuming you only have a problem when differing standards are applied to white people based on skin color, but not when those differing standards (based on skin color) are applied to a group to which you don't belong. Or really when equality is administered on differing levels based on skin color.

Also, no one called you A racist. They said the things you've said are racist. If you dropped the defensiveness and listened (instead of defending), you might hear *why* what you've said is racist (including 'pulling the race card'). But no, no one said, "Kobi's A racist".


Dylan

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Kobi

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Navy"]Medusa,

With all due respect, I have a real problem when differing standards are applied to people based on skin color.

You just said Kobi is a bad white person who must examine her presumed racism and privelege.

But people of color because of their unique life experience have free reign to call me names and belittle me?

This makes sense. Again, I have to allow for them but they dont have to treat me with any respect simply because of the color of their skin.

Thats bizarre.

Kobi no one is calling you names, you are saying racist things, that does not mean you are a racist. Racist is not the same as calling someone Brown when you are white, it is not the same as calling someone N* when you are white, all of those things are racist speech. It implies you are saying racist things. To be a racist you must firmly believe these racist things, if you believe them then yes (you) are a racist.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Kobi

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Navy"]Medusa,

With all due respect, I have a real problem when differing standards are applied to people based on skin color.

Kobi;

Not to put too fine a point on the matter but I don't think that's true. I think you don't have a problem with differing standards applied to skin color provided one of two conditions are met:

1) It's not happening to you
2) It's not happening in a time contemporaneous to yours.

Based upon your OWN posts, Kobi, I would say that you would, for instance, have no problem at all with racist standards being applied to blacks in any year before you were born. This is based upon YOUR posts and YOUR statements that we can't say who was right and who was wrong about issues that happened in the 19th century or the early part of the 20th century. So, depending upon when you were born, the year before that I see no reason--based upon your philosophy as you have expressed it--to believe that you would have ANY problem with differing standards applied to blacks and whites because neither condition is met. After the year you are born you would have a problem--at least in theory--because condition 2 was met.

Now, you can correct me if I'm reading your philosophy incorrectly but it certainly appears to be what you are saying. Again, this is NOT calling you a racist. When I think you are a racist, I'll let you know. I am saying that the real-world consequences of your philosophy are very disturbing to me.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Kobi

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Navy"]Medusa,

With all due respect, I have a real problem when differing standards are applied to people based on skin color.

You just said Kobi is a bad white person who must examine her presumed racism and privelege.

But people of color because of their unique life experience have free reign to call me names and belittle me?

This makes sense. Again, I have to allow for them but they dont have to treat me with any respect simply because of the color of their skin.

Thats bizarre.

Kobi,

I think you missed the point of my entire post. Im not saying that you are a bad white person. I think you probably have some examination to do around race (like most all of the white people that I know, myself included). That becomes especially apparent to me when you say things like "someone pulled out the race card."
You (apparently) haven't even examined race enough to know that saying someone "pulled the race card" is a red herring. I don't think it makes you a bad person, I think that it makes you in need of education and a deeper thought process around race. It's fine if you don't want to do that or don't think you need to do that, but I'm telling you from one white person to another that you will keep encountering angry reactions, irritated people, and people who think you are ignorant as long as you keep making that statement. People will (mostly) automatically dismiss what you say as racist when you couch it in a "race card" conversation.

Why will people do that? Because it IS offensive, racist, and dismissive.

You keep asking "by who's standards?" and I'm willing to answer that for you.

By the standards of thoughtful, enlightened people. By the standards of people who do not want to add another layer to the ugly and oppressive weight of living in a racist society to people like The_Lady_Snow, and AJ, and Corkey and Adele. And hopefully one day, by the standards of the world at large as we move toward a more evolved society. One where AJ can make a very thoughtful post about historical racism, give examples, and be absolutely present and patient in a conversation with someone who says she is playing the race card. Where one day People of Color will no longer have to stretch their willingness to educate people who do not want to be educated into unimagineable, contorted acrobatics in order to be heard over the drone of such heavily ingrained privilege.

You mentioned that you feel like People of Color have free reighn to call you names and belittle you and yet you are willing to keep saying things to People of Color when they have told you that they feel belittled and name-called. There is no double-standard there, except that you want to be able to say racist and privileged things without the people whom it hurts coming back at you with anything other than acceptance. Even AJ's incredibly measured patience was not enough?

Again, I don't think you are a bad person. I have seen you say things that are smart and enlightened and hope that you will consider the things that are said here with levity. It is a painful and embarrassing process to try to do the work to unlearn all of the racism and privilege that will come pre-packaged with white skin in this world but you must take the first step in order to do that.

The first step is listening. HEAR the pain, the anger, the information, the stories, the words, the lives. Hear those things without creating a soft bed of denial or anger for them to land on. Listen and hear.

I can tell you are defensive right now. Just listen. Don't defend. Listen.

M