The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

[Glenn]

I've seen some folks that are usually sweethearts here, get timed out because they had a beef about another member, groups of members, or a topic. I think that special care should be given to these members via a private message in an understanding way, along with a warning, rather than a moderator only giving a warning once or twice in the forum.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

I've seen some folks that are usually sweethearts here, get timed out because they had a beef about another member, groups of members, or a topic. I think that special care should be given to these members via a private message in an understanding way, along with a warning, rather than a moderator only giving a warning once or twice in the forum.

That is what is done. It's when the private warnings go unheeded that it is taken to public action.

[SuperFemme]

i am in incredible pain right now but feel compelled to post.

i thank everyone for participating, its an important conversation.

i want to reiterate AGAIN that giving a pass is not about erasing empathy and compassion. people don't seem to be getting that message....

a "pass" is a different set of rules for DA people and a complete lack of personal responsibility.

as the Disability Ambassador for the site, i can assure you that the planet goes out of it's way to take into account peoples DA's.

what the planet is not going to do (i'm pretty sure) is to make DA people a special class that is not responsible for their own behaviors.

i also find it SO incredibly dismissing that as a DA person asking to be treated that same as everyone else, that i am hearing over and over (by non DA'd people no less) how important it is for me to be treated differently.

christie, you assumed snow was talking about a specific member and claimed you knew because of specific interactions you had witnessed. she told you it was not. i found your responses to snow incredibly dismissive.

after reading this thread, i worry that a woman who has been raped, stalked, harassed, etc. will come to this thread and read that if a DA person is the perp that they are not protected. in fact it really feels like some people have twisted it into a "blame the victim" kind of thing, by shaming the offended person. saying it is up to the offended person to not be offended is beyond the pale IMO. and i'm not talking about hurt feelings or simply not getting along. i am talking about the rules that are in place here to make it safe for everyone.

some of the examples given as reasons for a different set of rules are really really a far stretch.

for instance the example of somebody being 25 but congnitively 13. Even 5 year olds know the difference between right and wrong. this is an adult website and when i first came to the b/f online community 9 years ago?
i was about 5 or 6 on a cognitive level. i was banned about 3 times during that period. i was not able to exist in an adult environment, and when i was able to? i came back.

i don't even want to get into how damaging it would be for members to go around assigning age, cognitive level, and diagnosis for our DA membership. can you imagine?

i also was really upset by the poor example of a drunk driver killing somebody vs. a person having a heart attack and killing someone. seriously? drunk driving is a fucking choice that kills thousands every year. i was almost one of those. to compare it to a medical emergency and attempt to assign "intent" to it is a red herring. there is no such thing as DWCA (driving with clogged arteries) is there? there is absolute intent when a person gets behind the wheel drunk.

i'm running out of steam, but i want everyone to know that the mods and admins deal with issues on a case by case basis. that has been said many many times, and it is absolutely true.

so social blunder, awkwardness, cognitive issues and all other things attached to DA people is always taken into account.

the owners and mods must also take every single member into account and what is safe sometimes.

i AM DA'd. I want the same rules. When people who are not DA'd come along and purport to know what's best for me and then lower their expectations it sends me a message. that message is that i will never be like you.

when i am sent the message that i am responsible for my actions, you can bet that i am going to rise to the level of expectation that is given to me.

it's rare that i've run into a DA'd person who does not.

at rehab i'd see the over protective mom, wheeling her kid around, feeding her lunch, and even attempting to sit in classes such as social skills. once the staff banned the mom from the property the child improved by leaps and bounds. why? because they rose to the level of expectations that the rehab put upon them.

i am always going to treat all members as human beings. that means compassion and empathy being extended. will i make mistakes? you bet.
but i am not about to diminish the other DA'd members here by expecting nothing of them. we're a great bunch, and there are a LOT of DA'd members here who won't out themselves as DA'd because they don't want to be viewed through that lens.

i don't blame them.

i don't know if any of this makes any sense, i shouldn't even be posting the day after surgery and my pain level is about a 13 right now.

[adorable]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

i am in incredible pain right now but feel compelled to post.

I know you just got out of the hospital and I hope you feel better soon.

i thank everyone for participating, its an important conversation.

i want to reiterate AGAIN that giving a pass is not about erasing empathy and compassion. people don't seem to be getting that message....

a "pass" is a different set of rules for DA people and a complete lack of personal responsibility.

as the Disability Ambassador for the site, i can assure you that the planet goes out of it's way to take into account peoples DA's.

I agree.

what the planet is not going to do (i'm pretty sure) is to make DA people a special class that is not responsible for their own behaviors.

i also find it SO incredibly dismissing that as a DA person asking to be treated that same as everyone else, that i am hearing over and over (by non DA'd people no less) how important it is for me to be treated differently.

This is the discussion part that you mentioned earlier. And I assume why you started the thread.

christie, you assumed snow was talking about a specific member and claimed you knew because of specific interactions you had witnessed. she told you it was not. i found your responses to snow incredibly dismissive.



after reading this thread, i worry that a woman who has been raped, stalked, harassed, etc. will come to this thread and read that if a DA person is the perp that they are not protected. in fact it really feels like some people have twisted it into a "blame the victim" kind of thing, by shaming the offended person. saying it is up to the offended person to not be offended is beyond the pale IMO. and i'm not talking about hurt feelings or simply not getting along. i am talking about the rules that are in place here to make it safe for everyone.

I have been raped, stalked and harrassed and it happened when I was 9 months pregnant. That person was a sociopath which does make someone differently abled. He was given a pass for his behavior by society and sentanced to a mental hospital for 30 days of which he stayed 15whole days. Until he did the same thing again in another state to another woman and was sent to prison for six years. As a participant in this thread, I haven't read any posts or interpreted it to mean that I personally am not protected the same way I would be anywhere on the internet.

I also don't see the blame the victim thing since it's been said at least a dozen times that this thread isn't about any particular person or situation. I was having a discussion about whether or not people should be given a pass. If the answer is already clear and defined then discussing it is kind of moot, no?

some of the examples given as reasons for a different set of rules are really really a far stretch.

for instance the example of somebody being 25 but congnitively 13. Even 5 year olds know the difference between right and wrong. this is an adult website and when i first came to the b/f online community 9 years ago?
i was about 5 or 6 on a cognitive level. i was banned about 3 times during that period. i was not able to exist in an adult environment, and when i was able to? i came back.

I agree. That makes a lot of sense to me.

i don't even want to get into how damaging it would be for members to go around assigning age, cognitive level, and diagnosis for our DA membership. can you imagine?

I agree.
i also was really upset by the poor example of a drunk driver killing somebody vs. a person having a heart attack and killing someone. seriously? drunk driving is a fucking choice that kills thousands every year. i was almost one of those. to compare it to a medical emergency and attempt to assign "intent" to it is a red herring. there is no such thing as DWCA (driving with clogged arteries) is there? there is absolute intent when a person gets behind the wheel drunk.

Actually that is exactly what I said.

i'm running out of steam, but i want everyone to know that the mods and admins deal with issues on a case by case basis. that has been said many many times, and it is absolutely true.

so social blunder, awkwardness, cognitive issues and all other things attached to DA people is always taken into account.

the owners and mods must also take every single member into account and what is safe sometimes.

i AM DA'd. I want the same rules. When people who are not DA'd come along and purport to know what's best for me and then lower their expectations it sends me a message. that message is that i will never be like you.

when i am sent the message that i am responsible for my actions, you can bet that i am going to rise to the level of expectation that is given to me.


it's rare that i've run into a DA'd person who does not.

I have seen people who aren't DA be able to live up to other people's expectations. My experience is not everyone's experience and I don't feel that I should be the standard for others.

at rehab i'd see the over protective mom, wheeling her kid around, feeding her lunch, and even attempting to sit in classes such as social skills. once the staff banned the mom from the property the child improved by leaps and bounds. why? because they rose to the level of expectations that the rehab put upon them.

Good point.

i am always going to treat all members as human beings. that means compassion and empathy being extended. will i make mistakes? you bet.
but i am not about to diminish the other DA'd members here by expecting nothing of them. we're a great bunch, and there are a LOT of DA'd members here who won't out themselves as DA'd because they don't want to be viewed through that lens.

i don't blame them.

i don't know if any of this makes any sense, i shouldn't even be posting the day after surgery and my pain level is about a 13 right now.

Again. I sincerely hope you feel better soon.

[Apocalipstic]

Welcome back SuperFemme! xoxoxoxoxoxoxxo

I think this has been a great thread to open up a dialog on this important subject.

On the subject of form letter answers or emails from the Mods, I have received emails from mods that I thought were form emails too. However after discussing with June and really thinking about how many emails the Mods and owners have to send out, I suspect that they have a set answer (in their heads) to things, that is very professional and to the point and does, to someone who processes a little differently like me or Belle, look like a form letter.

I don't think anyone is saying that you need to be treated differently, just that someone AS or Autistic processes completely differently, and after a life of being told we are stupid and lazy and all sorts of things for not conforming to everyone else there often is an anger issue when we are asked to change that, if taken into account early in the interaction, can keep things from escalating into a big angry mess where people say a bunch of stuff they don't really mean in anger.

No one is saying that abusing and stalking should be allowed.

I think it is awesome that we have you to go to in cases where someone feels misunderstood. Is there a possibility that June or Medusa could serve as back up Ambassador in cases where you might need a day off? I am not the best at communicating, but I could even help contact June or Medusa or whomever you think would be good.

Hope you feel better!

[The_Lady_Snow]

Wouldn't the Ambassador's back ups be the Moderators or Admins?

Curious.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Wouldn't the Ambassador's back ups be the Moderators or Admins?

Curious.

I would think so, but it might help to have a specific person who understands the issue.

Not trying to be an ass.

[JustBeingMe]

I am a HUGE FAN of the Infamous IGGY BUTTON!! It works well and keeps me from acting like an idiot engaging in drama online. I just hate drama!! I want no part of it from ANYONE, abled or differently abled for that matter.

Signed,
IGGY USER

[violaine]

[QUOTE=popcorninthesofa;153481]I've seen some folks that are usually sweethearts here, get timed out because they had a beef about another member, groups of members, or a topic. I think that special care should be given to these members via a private message in an understanding way, along with a warning, rather than a moderator only giving a warning once or twice in the forum.

some people are given private messages for reported posts/other issues via a PM 'warning'. i'm not sure how 'understanding' the message can be read, because i think, they might be kind of a form letter/general-type reminder. i've received a couple of them over the years, [whether or not i agreed with the 'warnings' i chose to not 'dispute' the issued warnings] because i have observed interactions over the years, and learned some interesting and valuable differences between NT-AT processing, and how it presents online in certain areas.

with regard to warning letters issued, 'fairness' for the NT-AT 'set up' - i.e., the big picture, can be rather complex! in my case, sure, the warning was right/true- in part! it takes two for me to even get to that point, and yes, i take responsibility for my own 'actions'. i know that i am not as savvy in some areas, nor do i have any interest in setting someone up to 'get caught' or 'fail'. the report button has only been hit by me once elsewhere.

so, whenever i hear things from offending person- claims: to be good friends with certain people, wishing me luck with any of my own 'reporting', and on and on- this is the kind of complicated arena that someone like me, on the spectrum, cannot NAVIGATE. by the time it comes for this AT to try and compose a thought out letter to any [and which??] moderator, situation is so layered/twisted and i am so worn out, that the only thing clear, and what very well may have been seen clearly- was indeed my fuck up, because i wrote very straightforwardly, in my way, to offending person.

a friend of mine said the only people who would understand what i'm trying to convey would be those who are on the spectrum. is this true? if so, then the majority sees me right now claiming 'victim' role? that is simply not my truth. opportunities to see a depth can get blown away when many other pieces/parts contributing to larger issues are there, but "if" people only remain in the black and white, or listen to people online who listen to other people online, and maintain 'oh, she's just playing a Victim again' how does this help for future issues involving NT-AT interactions and very different processing? i could imagine the people who are moderators turning grey overnight from handling such issues!

[SuperFemme]

I'm pretty sure that NOBODY on this site has EVER been timed out for disagreeing with a person or groups of people. If so, I'd like to see where.

I am also pretty sure that there is no form letter response on this site.

Interactions with mods/admins are personal and one on one conversations, not form letters. The Planet has done a great job of NOT giving time outs and bans as a rule.

Violane, I've never seen you in the role of a victim. Ever. I hear what you are saying about somebody being nasty and saying they are good friends with certain people and wishing you "luck". That is outright shitty behavior, and not tolerated here.

I think it's important to separate what happened at the dash site with the set up here. Because the two things are light years apart.

I also want to put out there that is anybody with a different ability is having an issue (be it with the mods or other members) that you can pm me. As the DA Ambassador here it is my job to make sure that the DA members are treated fairly. If anyone feels like that is NOT happening, please contact me and I can act as a mediator if necessary, or point you in the right direction.

[violaine]

[QUOTE=SuperFemme;153533]
Violane, I've never seen you in the role of a victim. Ever. I hear what you are saying about somebody being nasty and saying they are good friends with certain people and wishing you "luck". That is outright shitty behavior, and not tolerated here.

it happened already, and i'm not talking about the dash site, SuperFemme.

I think it's important to separate what happened at the dash site with the set up here. Because the two things are light years apart.

I also want to put out there that is anybody with a different ability is having an issue (be it with the mods or other members) that you can pm me. As the DA Ambassador here it is my job to make sure that the DA members are treated fairly. If anyone feels like that is NOT happening, please contact me and I can act as a mediator if necessary, or point you in the right direction.

with all due respect, SuperFemme- i cannot see that happening!

thank you for the offer - but part of what i was trying to communicate in this thread, and from what i've personally seen/experienced, makes it nearly comical to me, on one hand, and the very last thing i'd conceive of doing- contacting you for help.

i'm not writing this to read abrasively to you. there is absolutely no negative 'tone' attached. it is not good - it is not bad, it 'just is'. i'm not an island, and do appreciate sound help when i need it, and am far from being afraid to ask for it- but i would prefer that questions not even need to go through several other people or avenues.

just treated fairly- as everyone else on initial try.

best,
belle

[SuperFemme]

[quote=violaine;153667]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Violane, I've never seen you in the role of a victim. Ever. I hear what you are saying about somebody being nasty and saying they are good friends with certain people and wishing you "luck". That is outright shitty behavior, and not tolerated here.

it happened already, and i'm not talking about the dash site, SuperFemme.

I think it's important to separate what happened at the dash site with the set up here. Because the two things are light years apart.

I also want to put out there that is anybody with a different ability is having an issue (be it with the mods or other members) that you can pm me. As the DA Ambassador here it is my job to make sure that the DA members are treated fairly. If anyone feels like that is NOT happening, please contact me and I can act as a mediator if necessary, or point you in the right direction.

with all due respect, SuperFemme- i cannot see that happening!

thank you for the offer - but part of what i was trying to communicate in this thread, and from what i've personally seen/experienced, makes it nearly comical to me, on one hand, and the very last thing i'd conceive of doing- contacting you for help.

i'm not writing this to read abrasively to you. there is absolutely no negative 'tone' attached. it is not good - it is not bad, it 'just is'. i'm not an island, and do appreciate sound help when i need it, and am far from being afraid to ask for it- but i would prefer that questions not even need to go through several other people or avenues.

just treated fairly- as everyone else on initial try.

best,
belle

Violane,

I'm not offended in the least. I am but one tool available. I do hope that you go to the mods with anyone harassing you.

Nobody here deserves to be harassed in any medium, and I am sure that the help is there to address that if you choose to seek it.

[adorable]

[quote=violaine;153529]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

I've seen some folks that are usually sweethearts here, get timed out because they had a beef about another member, groups of members, or a topic. I think that special care should be given to these members via a private message in an understanding way, along with a warning, rather than a moderator only giving a warning once or twice in the forum.

some people are given private messages for reported posts/other issues via a PM 'warning'. i'm not sure how 'understanding' the message can be read, because i think, they might be kind of a form letter/general-type reminder. i've received a couple of them over the years, [whether or not i agreed with the 'warnings' i chose to not 'dispute' the issued warnings] because i have observed interactions over the years, and learned some interesting and valuable differences between NT-AT processing, and how it presents online in certain areas.

with regard to warning letters issued, 'fairness' for the NT-AT 'set up' - i.e., the big picture, can be rather complex! in my case, sure, the warning was right/true- in part! it takes two for me to even get to that point, and yes, i take responsibility for my own 'actions'. i know that i am not as savvy in some areas, nor do i have any interest in setting someone up to 'get caught' or 'fail'. the report button has only been hit by me once elsewhere.

so, whenever i hear things from offending person- claims: to be good friends with certain people, wishing me luck with any of my own 'reporting', and on and on- this is the kind of complicated arena that someone like me, on the spectrum, cannot NAVIGATE. by the time it comes for this AT to try and compose a thought out letter to any [and which??] moderator, situation is so layered/twisted and i am so worn out, that the only thing clear, and what very well may have been seen clearly- was indeed my fuck up, because i wrote very straightforwardly, in my way, to offending person.

a friend of mine said the only people who would understand what i'm trying to convey would be those who are on the spectrum. is this true? if so, then the majority sees me right now claiming 'victim' role? that is simply not my truth. opportunities to see a depth can get blown away when many other pieces/parts contributing to larger issues are there, but "if" people only remain in the black and white, or listen to people online who listen to other people online, and maintain 'oh, she's just playing a Victim again' how does this help for future issues involving NT-AT interactions and very different processing? i could imagine the people who are moderators turning grey overnight from handling such issues!

I am not sure why but I don't have a ton of trouble understanding people who have Aspergers in general and I never have trouble reading you. I am not sure if it's because I know certain people have it so I read them differently because of it.

I hope that you and anyone else that has this could answer a some questions that I have been wondering since I read your post.

I wondered if online forums are more difficult for you personally to navigate more then face to face interactions?

And this may seem to be a dumb question, I know more about autism itself, but are there degrees of Aspergers like there is with autism? And since I am asking questions...is it in posting that you have the most trouble? I'm not sure if I worded that right. What I mean is do you tend to read your posts and think you are being clear, even when people may be saying that you are not being clear?

Do you ever find that people repeat themselves to you? But that you feel like you are clear on what they mean? Yet, they are not clear that you are understanding what they mean? That may have just confused ME. I hope that makes sense, I know what I'm trying to say I just may not have the right words.

Are there ways of communicating that help you? I know that my boifriend has dyslexia and that if I keep my sentences shorter and not bunch them together in a paragraph it makes it easier for hym to read. Is there a way to write to make anything easier if you have Aspergers?

I'm just wondering, thank you for posting!

[Ursy]

Originally Posted by adorable

I wondered if online forums are more difficult for you personally to navigate more then face to face interactions?

I actually find online forums much easier to negotiate as an Aspie. I think that this medium can often be well suited to people on the spectrum, because in many ways it levels the playing field. In physical interactions, I can have trouble with body language, reading facial expression, tone of voice and intent (it depends on the day as well). These things are absent from the online world, so aren't there to confuse me. In some ways the absence of these markers does make it more difficult (as it does for most of us, and I do glean some information from these things), but in other ways it makes it much easier.

And this may seem to be a dumb question, I know more about autism itself, but are there degrees of Aspergers like there is with autism? And since I am asking questions...is it in posting that you have the most trouble? I'm not sure if I worded that right. What I mean is do you tend to read your posts and think you are being clear, even when people may be saying that you are not being clear?

Sure there are degrees - it's all part of the autistic spectrum. Some will say that there is actually no difference between Asperger's and high functioning autism. (Others will argue that there are marked differences between the two) I don't really have much of an opinion either way, I think it's a matter of semantics.

Posting, for me, is actually much easier than verbal communication, because I can take my time, re-read things (both my stuff and the other person's), and don't get as confused (hopefully). I also have an auditory processing problem which makes processing verbal communication problematic, particularly if there is background noise. As for clarity, I think I come across best in text, definitely. But there is such huge variation between people on the spectrum, I can only speak about my own experience as an Aspie.

Do you ever find that people repeat themselves to you? But that you feel like you are clear on what they mean? Yet, they are not clear that you are understanding what they mean? That may have just confused ME. I hope that makes sense, I know what I'm trying to say I just may not have the right words.

Lol...yes, very occasionally. However, I've learned to mask a lot of my Aspieness so that most people are surprised to learn that I'm on the spectrum. I just come across as slightly quirky and "artistic", apparently. Oh, and sometimes standoffish - if feeling out of my element, which is often.

So to answer your question (because I don't think I really addressed it properly), it's more likely that people will carry on oblivious that I have NOT caught all of something, because I don't want to keep asking them to repeat themselves, and explain my differences all the time. I kinda feel like pointing out that I have these "differences" is asking for a pass... and I don't mean it that way, but that's how it's so often interpreted... so I avoid it.

edit: My reason would be more as a way of explaining *why* I'm not following the conversation, rather than asking for a pass, so that they don't interpret me as stupid or disinterested.

I really hate being interpreted as stupid, because I'm not - I'm in the 99.9th percentile on a couple of scales. It's just that honestly, you would never, ever know it. ESPECIALLY if you met me in real life. And on the flip side, my social intelligence can be pretty low on a few points. As I said before, it really depends on whether I'm having a good day or a bad day.

Hope that makes sense

[Soft*Silver]

Ijust want to throw my two cents in...

I have been a member of three BF sites to date.

This is the only site where I think the moderators are fair and consistent. On other sites, as someone said, you were basically blindsided by the decisions made. Here, there is a gentleness to the process. It actually diffuses the momentum when a moderator steps in and says "hey, lets calm it down"

I know all too well that I am easy to escalate. It comes from having PTSD. No need to go into why I have it but I do. So, I appreciate it when a neutral person can calmly intervene. It was not like this on the other two sites.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by softness

Ijust want to throw my two cents in...

I have been a member of three BF sites to date.

This is the only site where I think the moderators are fair and consistent. On other sites, as someone said, you were basically blindsided by the decisions made. Here, there is a gentleness to the process. It actually diffuses the momentum when a moderator steps in and says "hey, lets calm it down"

I know all too well that I am easy to escalate. It comes from having PTSD. No need to go into why I have it but I do. So, I appreciate it when a neutral person can calmly intervene. It was not like this on the other two sites.

Yup.. I can see this with just awareness here about just about any form of DA. I hadn't thought too much about being someone with PTSD that led to agoraphobia and the posting on a website. I mainly have difficulty with this in real-time (startle response, mostly when confronted with anything that similar to my initial trauma trigger). It has been a long time since I recovered from the agoraphobia, but can still have certain situations come up in real-time that strike at past ways of dealing with anxiety and wanting to retreat to what is familiar and safe.! Especially when something happens that is like the early life trauma that happened. Yikes, all those years ago!!

I am thinking more about what you are saying here to gain some insight in terms of possible reactions stemming from posts on the site (for me). We do cover a lot of heavy stuff here and I know at times, my history does get kicked into focus when interacting on threads. Does for everyone.

I have always been so good at compartmentalizing to just survive and do what I need to do to make a living, be a parent, be a partner in the past, deal with the end of life for a partner, take care of a mentally disabled sibling and an aging parent. I can put up a field of coping mechanisms so that I can just do what just has to get done. I do this with chronic pain, too. And although, I really have been a recovering agoraphobic for a long time now, not wanting to slip backwards does come up. Hell, life is pretty stressful sometimes and we all have stuff we deal with.

Thanks, this post gives me pause. And that is a good thing as I know I can get upset around certain issues and begin to feel vulnerable. That is when I can really put on a mask that I bet seems impenetrable. Having to be the therapist and care-taker for so long was a way to remain guarded even when doing work (therapy for myself) around all of this.

Hummm… and one usually develops agoraphobia as a means to stay safe, stay in familiar surroundings. Stay clear of anything that can bring on shear panic or what happened in the first place to traumatize someone. it’s a way able to avoid the initial trauma and anything that is similar. So, guess it makes a lot of sense to feel this way.

This really is a great thread!! Lots of smart peeps!

[Soft*Silver]

I relate to what you said here. I know I can put on a mask too when I am feeling vulnerable, but I bet my mask is harsher than yours. Mine is a sullen, angry, snarling mask. I wasnt the caretaker. I was the scapegoat and so now when I am being blamed for things I didnt do or mean, I do what I did as a child, fight back for survival. My sister was the caretaker..and she wanted peace at any cost, so now she has ulcers. My brother was the Invisible Boy, always staying out of the way so he would never be the target. Problem was, it also meant he never felt loved or cared for. He committed suicide.

sometimes people dont realize what they are doing to others on this site. And nor should they. They arent therapists. But I love the saying someone had as their sig line..."be kind to everyone for they all deal with some kind of harship" (or something like that). I know I have been called on the carpet more than once for not giving people notice about some posts that were horrific to traumazied folks. I try to be much more sensitive about that now. After working in my field for so long, and after the aftermath of my brother's suicide, I have developed a rather calloused skin over things that would make most people gag. And, while I own I can be insensitive about this unknowingly, those who unknowingly trigger my PTSD should also know. But I usually dont tell it. Thats the mask> You have hurt me but I wont let you see the hurt because I firmly believe you will use it to hurt me more. I just wont allow that kind of vulnerability.

Good insight, ALH....


AtLastHome wrote:Thanks, this post gives me pause. And that is a good thing as I know I can get upset around certain issues and begin to feel vulnerable. That is when I can really put on a mask that I bet seems impenetrable. Having to be the therapist and care-taker for so long was a way to remain guarded even when doing work (therapy for myself) around all of this

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

I've seen some folks that are usually sweethearts here, get timed out because they had a beef about another member, groups of members, or a topic. I think that special care should be given to these members via a private message in an understanding way, along with a warning, rather than a moderator only giving a warning once or twice in the forum.

I am fully aware I am a community member that is not a *sweetheart* and what I mean by that is I don't post all sugary and sweet nor do I add any form of glitter be it verbal or visual. Am I a sweet heart at all? Most likely to those I love and care for and those who I have spent some kind of invested time with. I find it funny in the ironic funny ha ha kind of way that if I had been a more *sweet* kind of posting femme the stories would be different.

The outrage would be different and this thread may have continued with it's intent. *I* am feeling this because when I read that if you are DA and NT and there is some form of inappropriate behaviours the NT persons experience is dismissed.

No means NO..

It's universal, nowhere in this world can you scream out no to someone who is crossing a line (regardless of how small that line is) and then the person screaming no will be looked upon as being wrong, lacking empathy and for the shame having someone wag their finger at them for putting themselves in that situation or for not just walking away.

I am in awe at this very thought.

The world regardless of our capacities has rules, NO

STOP

LEAVE ME ALONE

are things we are ALL taught to respect. I was at least in a few languages.

I can't wrap my head around the whole some people you can tell no to and they don't have to listen to you thinking.

I can't wrap my mind around the whole if you type like this and smile and spread sunshine and some you are valued more vs the
people who tend not to be so sweet and are a lil more brutal. I call that double standards. That's just me though, and while fully aware that this is an image I live with, and am fine with I still gotta say it's gross to watch the value according to who is more important and who is not.

When someone gets told over and over and over and it's handled by the person, by mods, by the leaders of the community and they still choose to not heed those warnings should they be given a special pass to say whatever they want at any given time?

If yes why?

Why can't everyone have that pass?

How uncomfortable for the people who aren't as assertive as some of us, who will get their boundaries crossed because they read this and get the feeling that well, I really can't do anything because I am going to be looked upon as the bad guy and they the person with some difference other than what you have.

How odd that some people only harrass femmes, yet don't try this kind of assertiveness with butches or guys in this community. THAT says a lot to ME.... Cause why pick on the feminine and femme women why not cross those boundaries with the butches and guys? Makes me go hmm...


In addition:

There's a reason survivors of abuse kept their mouths shut, it just hit me
we do it because we are shamed and treated like we did something wrong.
Pretty fucked up

[adorable]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I am fully aware I am a community member that is not a *sweetheart* and what I mean by that is I don't post all sugary and sweet nor do I add any form of glitter be it verbal or visual. Am I a sweet heart at all? Most likely to those I love and care for and those who I have spent some kind of invested time with. I find it funny in the ironic funny ha ha kind of way that if I had been a more *sweet* kind of posting femme the stories would be different.

I read popcorn as responding to Voltaine's post. I may be wrong about that.

The outrage would be different and this thread may have continued with it's intent. *I* am feeling this because when I read that if you are DA and NT and there is some form of inappropriate behaviours the NT persons experience is dismissed.


The outrage at what? We aren't talking specifics.

No means NO..

100% correct IMO. People have said so and agreed with abuse and physical safety being a serious concern.

It's universal, nowhere in this world can you scream out no to someone who is crossing a line (regardless of how small that line is) and then the person screaming no will be looked upon as being wrong, lacking empathy and for the shame having someone wag their finger at them for putting themselves in that situation or for not just walking away.

I am in awe at this very thought.

The world regardless of our capacities has rules, NO

STOP

LEAVE ME ALONE

are things we are ALL taught to respect. I was at least in a few languages.

I can't wrap my head around the whole some people you can tell no to and they don't have to listen to you thinking.

I can't wrap my mind around the whole if you type like this and smile and spread sunshine and some you are valued more vs the
people who tend not to be so sweet and are a lil more brutal. I call that double standards.

I'm not sure that is what is being said.

That's just me though, and while fully aware that this is an image I live with, and am fine with I still gotta say it's gross to watch the value according to who is more important and who is not.

When someone gets told over and over and over and it's handled by the person, by mods, by the leaders of the community and they still choose to not heed those warnings should they be given a special pass to say whatever they want at any given time?

I didn't think that was the discussion everyone was having.

If yes why?

Why can't everyone have that pass?

How uncomfortable for the people who aren't as assertive as some of us, who will get their boundaries crossed because they read this and get the feeling that well, I really can't do anything because I am going to be looked upon as the bad guy and they the person with some difference other than what you have.

Are people who are not as assertive as the rest of us given a pass to not have to take care of themselves?

How odd that some people only harrass femmes, yet don't try this kind of assertiveness with butches or guys in this community. THAT says a lot to ME.... Cause why pick on the feminine and femme women why not cross those boundaries with the butches and guys? Makes me go hmm...

But we aren't talking about specific situations. That isn't the purpose of this thread.


In addition:

There's a reason survivors of abuse kept their mouths shut, it just hit me
we do it because we are shamed and treated like we did something wrong.
Pretty fucked up



Who shamed who or treated you like you did something wrong? Is it possible that posts are being taken personally when that isn't intended? I tend to be direct, and if I have something I say I say to the person I want to say it to. That for me is seperate then having a discussion on what I think is an important topic that SF wanted people to discuss.

We can't talk about you and not talk about you at the same time. If this thread isn't about a specific person or situation then the discussion can continue it would seem to me. If we are going to make it about a specific person and situation then that is kind of weird since SF has already made it clear it is NOT. But the going back and forth thing is confusing me.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I am fully aware I am a community member that is not a *sweetheart* and what I mean by that is I don't post all sugary and sweet nor do I add any form of glitter be it verbal or visual. Am I a sweet heart at all? Most likely to those I love and care for and those who I have spent some kind of invested time with. I find it funny in the ironic funny ha ha kind of way that if I had been a more *sweet* kind of posting femme the stories would be different.

The outrage would be different and this thread may have continued with it's intent. *I* am feeling this because when I read that if you are DA and NT and there is some form of inappropriate behaviours the NT persons experience is dismissed.

No means NO..

It's universal, nowhere in this world can you scream out no to someone who is crossing a line (regardless of how small that line is) and then the person screaming no will be looked upon as being wrong, lacking empathy and for the shame having someone wag their finger at them for putting themselves in that situation or for not just walking away.

I am in awe at this very thought.

The world regardless of our capacities has rules, NO

STOP

LEAVE ME ALONE

are things we are ALL taught to respect. I was at least in a few languages.

I can't wrap my head around the whole some people you can tell no to and they don't have to listen to you thinking.

I can't wrap my mind around the whole if you type like this and smile and spread sunshine and some you are valued more vs the
people who tend not to be so sweet and are a lil more brutal. I call that double standards. That's just me though, and while fully aware that this is an image I live with, and am fine with I still gotta say it's gross to watch the value according to who is more important and who is not.

When someone gets told over and over and over and it's handled by the person, by mods, by the leaders of the community and they still choose to not heed those warnings should they be given a special pass to say whatever they want at any given time?

If yes why?

Why can't everyone have that pass?

How uncomfortable for the people who aren't as assertive as some of us, who will get their boundaries crossed because they read this and get the feeling that well, I really can't do anything because I am going to be looked upon as the bad guy and they the person with some difference other than what you have.

How odd that some people only harrass femmes, yet don't try this kind of assertiveness with butches or guys in this community. THAT says a lot to ME.... Cause why pick on the feminine and femme women why not cross those boundaries with the butches and guys? Makes me go hmm...


In addition:

There's a reason survivors of abuse kept their mouths shut, it just hit me
we do it because we are shamed and treated like we did something wrong.
Pretty fucked up

Seriously, we are not saying you need to put up with anything or be abused. Just that people communicate differently and that in some cases for many of us the ignore is useful or that maybe people with special communications needs could have a buddy they run their posts through before they post.

Some of your posts can seem inflamatory at times and so can mine, but we know each other in person and know what intent is behind the posts for the most part...or I hope so Not everyone has this honor.

In a situation where both parties have been abused and are filled with anger, things can escalate to a point where things are said in anger that no one means and these situations could be avoided in the first place with some intervention....I agree that if you do not know the person it is impossible to tell if they are in fact a threat or just talking smack and we should err on the side of caution.

Now, I have said over and over that there are some people who are likely not able to make these distinctions and who refuse to use the ignore button or ask for moderation or for a friend to vet their posts. If over time outs and discussions nothing seems to help, at some point the owners and mods are going to have to make a big decision, is the person worth helping or not.

My opinion? We have people of both types here and sadly someone is going to have to make the decision of how much is too much.